View Full Version : Gestalt Sorc // Beguiler Help!

2009-05-26, 10:34 AM
Long made short:


str 11
dex 12
con 13
int 18
cha 16

10 beguiler // 5 battle sorc/1 mind bender/ 4 ultimate magus (two spontaneous class adapted)


haven`t yet selected human feat, lvl 1 or lvl 3
lvl 6 improved feint
lvl 9 residual metamagic
beg silent /still spel
UM maximize


beguiler+4 (2 illusion/enchantment + bening transp + protection from arrows)

lvl 1 magic missile
feather fall
ray of enfeeblement
ray of clumsiness
lvl 2 web
lvl 3 fireball
lvl 4 manyjaws or vortex of teeth
lvl 5 arcane fusion

the free feats slots i can use them to qualify to archmage later or to some metamagic such as twin spell" or the like

I take any suggestions.

If anyone knows good ways do the metamagic enchancing easier (a.k.a lowering the spell slot level), it will be appreciated.

any item suggestion will also be of great help


2009-05-26, 11:05 AM
10 beguiler // 5 battle sorc/1 mind bender/ 4 ultimate magus (two spontaneous class adapted)

Did your DM give this the go-ahead? If so, how does it work?

2009-05-26, 11:14 AM
Do not take Improved Feint, it is an utter waste of your sparce but needed feat slots. I play a beguiler/shadowcraft mage myself who picked that feat early only to find it a complete waste.

2009-05-26, 11:16 AM
Actually, the adaptation is explained in the PrC

You pass one spell rfom one of the list to the other.

So, basically, I passed a sorc/wiz spell and then select a different one when i gained another spell level (I picked benign transp. then I added it to the beguiler list with the expanded spell knowledge (0 or 1), and then when i was able i switched another spell to avoid being redundant).

2009-05-26, 11:22 AM
Actually, the adaptation is explained in the PrC
What I meant is how are you running a Theurgic PrC in a gestalt game?
Since the rules outright forbid it, we need to know houserules if you want any meaningful input.

2009-05-26, 11:58 AM
Rules forbid dual progression all right, but also said that if the player is interested in the PrC because of the class features, that the class can be adapted to not progress 2 things simultaneously. so, the class juat progress one caster side (sorcerer in this case)

Keld Denar
2009-05-26, 12:28 PM
Yea, its still rediculously good since you can burn spell slots from 1 side to fuel Metamagic on the other. Even if it only progresses 1 side.

Empower is generally a better investment than Maximize. Average damage wise, they come out pretty close, but the maxiumum potential of Empower is
greater, and it costs 1 spell level adjustment less.

Split Ray is also a quick and dirty spell doubler for most rays. +2 equiv from Complete Arcane.

Also consider the more expensive MM costers. Twin Spell and Quicken Spell are both +4s. Burning 4th level slots to use them is WAY better than using slots 4 levels higher.

2009-05-26, 12:43 PM
I take any suggestions.

I would strongly recommend the Rapid Metamagic feat from Complete Mage as quickly as possible. Until then, the PHB2's Metamagic Specialist variant will have to suffice.
Use PHB2 retraining to swap back for a familiar once you get the feat (with a Beguiler, familiars are always gold).

Versatile Spellcaster from Races of the Dragon can go from decent to must-have, depending on your interpretation of it:

Its wording isn't clear whether it lets you sack spell slots from one class to cast higher-level spells from another.
The Beguiler class's wording isn't clear whether they 'know' all spells from a certain level before they have slots available at that level.

Ask your DM how this works. Definite statements either way always meet debate.

I like Empower Spell as a metamagic feat, especially with spells like you're using. It's much better than Maximize with spells like your Rays of ___ and it isn't much of a step down with Fireball and Manyjaws. It's cheaper too.

The Mindsight feat (buried in the Tsochar section of Lords of Madness) is wonderful if you ever have a slot to spare.

Quicken Spell is required for all spellcasters.
Twin Spell is damned good if you can fuel it.

If you want to lower metamagic costs, there's Metamagic School Focus (CMage?) and Easy Metamagic (RotD). The prior is very limited (requires 2 feats, cuts 1 level off a spell from a specific school 3 times per day), the latter has some funky prerequisites iirc.

2009-05-26, 01:21 PM
Wich book is RotD?

Keld Denar
2009-05-26, 01:46 PM
Races of the Dragon

Book for Kobalds and friends

2009-05-26, 02:11 PM
Practical Metamagic is in RotD, Easy Metamagic (http://crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Feats.pdf) is in Dragon magazine. I wouldn't take either one.

Get Versatile Spellcaster from RotD, it allows you to spend two spell slots of the same level to cast any spell you know of one level higher. You can use it to spend Beguiler spell slots to cast Sorcerer spells, for example. For this reason you'd probably be better off switching Sorcerer for Wizard and put that 16 on Con instead of Cha. Your Wizard side could learn every spell in the game, and then you could use your Beguiler spell slots with Versatile Spellcaster to cast whatever you need. You'd lose out on being able to cast in light armor, but you can use two 2nd level Beguiler spell slots to cast Greater Mage Armor each day with a Lesser Rod of Extend.