"If the elf dies here, this whole thing was a huge waste of time"

[ZombieMaster]

Interesting comment. The soul splices are already gone, so the fiends gain nothing extra by V staying alive any longer, so why would they be worried about (s)he dying now?

OK, it could just be because the longer V stays alive the higher his/her level will be at death, but the tone of the comment seems to indicate to me that there's something deeper going on that we're not aware of yet.

Thoughts?

[bladesyz]

I think it's pretty obvious that the fiends have a further purpose than just getting V's soul for 20 minutes. Obviously, they see a potential in V that's worth all the trouble they went through.

[teratorn]

Huh? not aware yet? Even Qarr noticed the holes in their explanation to approach V.


It's obvious that these guys are after the gates. If Xykon dies at the right time they can take over V and offer a deal to Redcloak.

[Douglas]

It seems pretty obvious to me that they are after the gates, not V. They never specified when they would get temporary custody of V's soul, or even that it would be after V's death - V just assumed that. They're planning to take that time when V is still alive, at an opportune moment for them to gain something from the gates by controlling V. For that to work, V must live and get to another gate.

[David Argall]

Pretty much. The fiends learned about the gates, and the party going after them from Sabine and this is when they started following the party. Qarr had no knowledge of the gates, but could spot that their story didn't really make sense.
But it does make sense that the fiends are after a gate that can control this god killing monster, and that they want to control V so he can give them control over that gate.

So they have control of V for 1-5 minutes x3 and 20-15 x 2, for a total of about 45 minutes. That is likely plenty of time, but...

[shadzar]

What relationship do fiends have with gods and the planes of existence that gods create?

Could the fiend be affected by the snarl since it even killed gods and want to make sure Xykon DOESN'T gain control over the snarl so they are not in danger?

I mean all the work they have done over the years, being unraveled by the snarl being released and the world remade yet again would be kind of a let down.

[ZeroNumerous]

Could the fiend be affected by the snarl since it even killed gods and want to make sure Xykon DOESN'T gain control over the snarl so they are not in danger?

I imagine they would rather take over the Snarl for themselves..

[shadzar]

I imagine they would rather take over the Snarl for themselves..

If all the gods couldn't control it or defeat it and had to just lock it into the core of the world, then what could the fiends do to control it? Even evil has a sense of self-preservation.

[Kornaki]

The fiends' instructions were for Sabine to report back on anything that could possibly shift the cosmic balance between good and evil (don't remember the exact wording at the moment). So obviously they plan on shifting the cosmic balance between good and evil. My thoughts:

They don't plan on using the gate against good at all. I'm willing to believe they really are the IFCC, trying to promote inter fiend cooperation. What better way to do this than to use the snarl to unite all demons, daemons and devils under their control? They could even crib Redcloak's plan to do this

[SadisticFishing]

Well, Asmodeus IS more powerful than most Gods... and if this is truly a set of all the axis of evil... that's a LOT of power than can be brought to bear. A LOT.

[shadzar]

The fiends' instructions were for Sabine to report back on anything that could possibly shift the cosmic balance between good and evil (don't remember the exact wording at the moment). So obviously they plan on shifting the cosmic balance between good and evil.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0380.html

But can they really control the snarl?

[Corwin Weber]

Here's a thought....


I know that the general assumption is that the fiends don't have to wait until V dies to take control of hir.... but....

...what if zhe does die?

I'm rambling a little bit.... today is the first moderately bad pollen day in this area. :) I guess what I'm getting at is what if this is only a semi-open ended deal? They can take over V at any point after the soul splice ends.... but once zhe dies.... they have to assume it's permanent (because they don't actually know whether it is or not) and take their payment right then?

Then they wouldn't be able to take hir over at the gate.... (after being rezzed, of course) which would make the whole deal a waste of time for them.

[ericgrau]

Spoilered for implied predictions.

A statement like that strongly implies that V has to live for the sake of the story. Or maybe the fiends are just getting really into their TV viewing experience.

The fiends are worried because they want to tempt V, a powerful caster, into evil and probably gain PR points for their cooperation (if they were honest about that). If he dies that doesn't work so well.

But if we step back a bit then it's not just a huge waste of time for the fiends, it's a huge waste of time for V's subplot. Thus Vaarsuvius must both live and become something at least mildly better than a hopeless prisoner.

[Axl_Rose]

I think it's pretty obvious that the fiends have a further purpose than just getting V's soul for 20 minutes.

I laughed my ass off reading that haha

[Darius1020]

Damn, with all of the over analyzing people do around here, how does no one get this?

First of all, V never said that he thought they would take his soul after he died, he just thought they would permanentaly have his soul

The fiends obviously want to use V when he gets to a gate, so if he died, then thier plan would be shot to hell (literally, haha, i get it)

[Mr. Pin]

Meh. The fiends can take V dead or alive, but now it seems that they want her alive...

Does gaining control of V's soul mean that they control her every action, or does it just mean that they can influence them/ make them evil?

[shadzar]

Meh. The fiends can take V dead or alive, but now it seems that they want her alive...

Does gaining control of V's soul mean that they control her every action, or does it just mean that they can influence them/ make them evil?

They can only act directly on the mortal plane when making a deal. The would use V to act directly on the mortal plane as they would an imp, but V could do things an imp could not, like go places where an imp would be killed on site. Or touch strange glyphs that only good could touch while flying.

[David Argall]

If all the gods couldn't control it or defeat it and had to just lock it into the core of the world, then what could the fiends do to control it? Even evil has a sense of self-preservation.

SoD Everybody, except Redcloak and the Dark One, assumes the gates can be used to control the Snarl. They don't know how, but likely have various theories, presumably wrong. Redcloak and the Dark One know that the Snarl is not controllable, but it's destruction of anything nearby can be moved to a desired location. So our fiends have a mistaken idea of what they can do with the gate.

[Dr. Cthulwho]

Interesting comment. The soul splices are already gone, so the fiends gain nothing extra by V staying alive any longer, so why would they be worried about (s)he dying now?

OK, it could just be because the longer V stays alive the higher his/her level will be at death, but the tone of the comment seems to indicate to me that there's something deeper going on that we're not aware of yet.

Thoughts?

Well we know the IFCC know about the Gates and we now know that the fiends themselves can only operate on the PM in a limited sense, thus need proxies like Qarr, Sabine and now, presumably, V.

Now the IFCC never said V had to be dead for them to call in his debt. So I'm thinking some sort of odd possession type situation where at important/critical moment one of the fiend calls in V's time and gets a V puppet for 20 minutes x3.

That would be pretty darn useful.

[SPoD]

SoD Everybody, except Redcloak and the Dark One, assumes the gates can be used to control the Snarl. They don't know how, but likely have various theories, presumably wrong. Redcloak and the Dark One know that the Snarl is not controllable, but it's destruction of anything nearby can be moved to a desired location. So our fiends have a mistaken idea of what they can do with the gate.

Alternately, it's possible that the fiends have been able to find out the truth that Redcloak knows through other channels, but that's still good enough for their purposes. Shifting the Snarl's exit to Celestia would still be a huge victory for them. The main difference, as I see it, is that the Dark One wants to THREATEN to use the Snarl against the other gods, and the IFCC likely wants to just flat-out use it in a surprise attack against the Upper Planes.

[Dagren]

I generally agree with the gates theory, but I do wonder what exactly they have in mind. After all, Xykon says the rituals to control the gate will take weeks, not half an hour, so presumably they must have something else in mind for her.

[R. Malcovitch]

Alternately, it's possible that the fiends have been able to find out the truth that Redcloak knows through other channels, but that's still good enough for their purposes. Shifting the Snarl's exit to Celestia would still be a huge victory for them. The main difference, as I see it, is that the Dark One wants to THREATEN to use the Snarl against the other gods, and the IFCC likely wants to just flat-out use it in a surprise attack against the Upper Planes.

The ability to determine where the snarl destroys everything is control. The Snarl is the ootsverse equivelent of a nuclear bomb; you have no ability to selectively destroy targets but if you want to shock and awe and/or destroy an entire city/region, then it's the perfect weapon

[Kornaki]

Hmm... new theory


They could just be planning to let the snarl out. Destroy the world. The gods were able to ride it out last time; maybe the devils and demons can too (or at least a small group.

During the rebuild, demand to have equal input into the planet, or you'll just blow it all up again. Considering that the gods are seemingly all good (since evil races are just XP farms for good races) this would be a major shift in the cosmic balance.

This plan could literally have been planned out since the world was born, with obvious major boosts being the rifts forming, and then learning about OOTS

[factotum]

The Gods hid from the Snarl in the Outer Planes when it got loose last time, which implies it can't move by itself outside the Prime Material (or whatever they call that plane these days). Redcloak's plan in SoD reinforces that belief:


Moving the Gates into the outer planes would allow the Snarl to reach through and destroy Gods.

[Volkov]

Correction, Asmodeus, The General of Gehenna, and Demogorgon are only more powerful than gods when they are inside their realm. Asmodeus can't fight a god outside of the hells and expect to win, neither can the other two big wigs of evil. Although the General has the power of a rank 5 demigod, in addition to the power of being the most powerful evil outsider lord in physical terms.

[Y'nokhs]

A new thought (I hope):

The fiends said they cannot usually act on the material plane, but a classic exception to this is the fiendish lord being summoned by or possessing the mortal wizard. Maybe however long they have is enough to have V summon them, or maybe they could posses V. Then they could act freely
As for the gates:
They could think they can control the Snarl, or they just could have the same plan as RC, i. e. holding the world ransom. Could the Good gods and celestial allow the world to be destroyed for their sake?

[Weimann]

I'm pretty sure it's just the fact that they have made an investment they want to see grow before they cash in. They never were interested in V at current level, but count on him leveling a whole lot before going down. Thus, V dying now would net them an admittedly competent caster, but nothing that would particularly further their cause.

[shadzar]

:smalleek: When I think about what was said, I think Qarr is about to be sent on an errand to go open a door.

V couldn't gain levels with the splices, so that didn't help the fiends, and in order for V to become more powerful to pull off what they need done, they have to help V get out of there and gain power. If only to get V to the rebel fleet forces in preparation to destroy the death star phylactery.

This would also add more insult to V since that same demon that helped started this whole mess is back helping V again and even the arcane power gained wasn't enough to do squat for anyone except V's self interests (Inkyrius+kids).

More despair into the spiralling void that leads to the path of the dark side darkness.

[factotum]

I'm pretty sure it's just the fact that they have made an investment they want to see grow before they cash in. They never were interested in V at current level, but count on him leveling a whole lot before going down. Thus, V dying now would net them an admittedly competent caster, but nothing that would particularly further their cause.

That's utterly ignoring the fact that the fiends were clearly targeting V specifically, as Qarr noticed...they knew way too much about him and his friends for them to have just randomly picked the next wizard who came down the line. If they were specifically targeting V we have to ask why--he's most definitely not the highest level wizard in the world (his old master Aarindarius is more powerful, and there are probably others), so what makes him so special that they would specifically want to get him?

The simple answer: he's a member of the Order of the Stick and therefore knows about the Gates. There is nothing else that makes V special enough for a group of highly powered fiends to take an interest in.

[Pronounceable]

I support the Gate theory. V has no other worth for IFCC to merit such an amazingly good deal otherwise.

Also remember: IFCC doesn't necessarily know how to deal with Snarl. They've only recently learned about it after all. So their only plan for the moment might be to secure an agent who'll do what they want at the right time.

Also, everyone seem to be missing that IFCC never said the debt would be calculated per individual splice. There's enough vagueness in the contract, esp for a fiend, to get triple total splice time ignoring Haerta's escape. That gives them close to one hour of V control.

And assuming general info about evil outsiders hold, V can ritually summon a powerful fiend that'd stay in Prime for a long time in an hour. That way, IFCC can do whatever they want with the gate.

[David Argall]

I generally agree with the gates theory, but I do wonder what exactly they have in mind. After all, Xykon says the rituals to control the gate will take weeks, not half an hour, so presumably they must have something else in mind for her.

Right now we do not know how much the fiends know, and we have good reason to think that knowledge flawed. So the fiends may not know the rituals will take weeks. They may assume it is simply a spell that will take seconds, or a few minutes at worse.

[SoC175]

Hmm... new theory


They could just be planning to let the snarl out. Destroy the world. The gods were able to ride it out last time; maybe the devils and demons can too (or at least a small group.

During the rebuild, demand to have equal input into the planet, or you'll just blow it all up again. Considering that the gods are seemingly all good (since evil races are just XP farms for good races) this would be a major shift in the cosmic balance.

This plan could literally have been planned out since the world was born, with obvious major boosts being the rifts forming, and then learning about OOTS
Once they have released the snarl to destroy the world there no longer are any gates or even rifts so they have nothing to demand anything from the gods

[B. Dandelion]

Huh. Interesting. I wonder if this sheds any light on Redcloak's completely unexpected recognition of the soul splices-- the Dark One could have forseen this eventuality. In SoD he sounded kind of pissy over the fact that even his fellow evil gods hadn't told him about the Snarl (gosh I wonder why), he has to know he can't be the only person who'd see its potential.

It also really reaffirms the need to keep information about the Snarl under wraps. Shojo broke the rules, told Roy everything, Roy didn't foresee the impostor within his ranks, Nale told his girlfriend (who'd specifically been sent to watch him in recognition of his "eeeeevil potential"), she told her employers...

Finally, when getting to the "sides" issue, the hypothetical existence of a group of people who seriously want to set the Snarl free would put the people who want it for themselves and the people who want it to not be free at all on even footing. Just sayin'.

[EmeraldPhoenix]

I think you are all overcomplicating this. This has nothing to do with the gates, the snarl, or even with V leveling up/owing them more time. (And as to the owing them more time thing, the splices already disolved. No matter what happens now, V will only owe them the ammount of time already spent.) No, this has to do with basic buisness sense.

During the first conversation with the IFCC, they said it was a new thing (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0632.html)they were doing. A trial. V was (one of) their first customer(s).

So if V dies, anybody else they offer this to is going to turn them down. If a used car dealer tells you "Oh, yeah, here's a nice car, you should buy it." and when you ask who the previous owner was, they say "A nice lady named (insert generic name here), she died in a car crash.", you're not going to buy that car. From that point forward, no matter if he tells you that the crash was her own stupid fault or if the car drove her off of the road or if she had an insane mob boss shooting bullets and one of them punctured the tires and made her fall off a cliff into a sea of freaking pirannas. All you're going to think is: car=lady. lady=death. car=death. car=bad. You're never going to buy that car.

This extended metaphor proves my point. Nobody else wants a contract from some guys whose first customer died. And even if they didn't spread it around, V would go to the afterlife and everyone down in hell would know. They would contact people like Sabine, who would contact mortals, and the IFCC would NEVER get another job.

[EmeraldPhoenix]

smalleek: When I think about what was said, I think Qarr is about to be sent on an errand to go open a door.

Ok. I'm going to say this slowly so we all understand.

The reason. The door. Is a problem. Is that V. Is invisible. And Xykon. Would see. The door. Move. Showing him. Where V. Is.

V has the ABILITY to open the door. But if shi does, then shi's kinda totally screwed. Quarr opening the door does not solve the problem. If V opens it, it will draw Xykon's attention to the door and V. If Quarr opens it, it will draw Xykon's attention to the door and V.

I'm sorry, but I have the overpowering urge to add a "Duh."

[Dagren]

Right now we do not know how much the fiends know, and we have good reason to think that knowledge flawed. So the fiends may not know the rituals will take weeks. They may assume it is simply a spell that will take seconds, or a few minutes at worse.Well, the fiends have known about the gates for months, since before the Siege of Azure City. They're undoubtedly extremely powerful, have great resources and have likely done quite a bit of research on the subject. However, it's true that they can't know for sure.

[Kornaki]

I think you are all overcomplicating this. This has nothing to do with the gates, the snarl, or even with V leveling up/owing them more time. (And as to the owing them more time thing, the splices already disolved. No matter what happens now, V will only owe them the ammount of time already spent.) No, this has to do with basic buisness sense.

During the first conversation with the IFCC, they said it was a new thing (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0632.html)they were doing. A trial. V was (one of) their first customer(s).

So if V dies, anybody else they offer this to is going to turn them down. If a used car dealer tells you "Oh, yeah, here's a nice car, you should buy it." and when you ask who the previous owner was, they say "A nice lady named (insert generic name here), she died in a car crash.", you're not going to buy that car. From that point forward, no matter if he tells you that the crash was her own stupid fault or if the car drove her off of the road or if she had an insane mob boss shooting bullets and one of them punctured the tires and made her fall off a cliff into a sea of freaking pirannas. All you're going to think is: car=lady. lady=death. car=death. car=bad. You're never going to buy that car.

This extended metaphor proves my point. Nobody else wants a contract from some guys whose first customer died. And even if they didn't spread it around, V would go to the afterlife and everyone down in hell would know. They would contact people like Sabine, who would contact mortals, and the IFCC would NEVER get another job.

It's been fairly well established that that was just a cover story. Quarr points out the obvious hole fairly quickly, and they also knew about OOTS from Sabine for quite a while.

[David Argall]

It's been fairly well established that that was just a cover story. Quarr points out the obvious hole fairly quickly, and they also knew about OOTS from Sabine for quite a while.

However it still might be useful...
If V ends up a prisoner, the fiends send Qarr who gives V a chance to summons the fiends, who claim that since the splice didn't work as well as hoped, they want a testimonial from V to persuade their fellow fiends that it did work. [Lie to their fellow fiends? Well of course. They are evil, right?] That way, they still get their funding. [As an unmentioned benefit, they also negate any claim V might have that the contract was void for failure to carry out their promises, etc.] In turn, they can give V a one-round splice, with the ability to Epic Teleport out of Azure City. So V, and maybe O-Chul, ends up back with the party, and we can get rid of this split party nonsense.

[Cúchulainn]

However it still might be useful...
If V ends up a prisoner, the fiends send Qarr who gives V a chance to summons the fiends, who claim that since the splice didn't work as well as hoped, they want a testimonial from V to persuade their fellow fiends that it did work. [Lie to their fellow fiends? Well of course. They are evil, right?] That way, they still get their funding. [As an unmentioned benefit, they also negate any claim V might have that the contract was void for failure to carry out their promises, etc.] In turn, they can give V a one-round splice, with the ability to Epic Teleport out of Azure City. So V, and maybe O-Chul, ends up back with the party, and we can get rid of this split party nonsense.

I dunno, another contract seems kind of redundant to the story, even though I agree I'd like this arc over with as soon as possible. Plus we have no evidence that there is anyone the Fiends can splice to V that will grant him the means to escape, the other splices presumably are now free and, like Haera, need to be recaptured.

[factotum]

During the first conversation with the IFCC, they said it was a new thing (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0632.html)they were doing. A trial. V was (one of) their first customer(s).


As I said earlier, this is ignoring the fact that they were targeting V specifically rather than choosing any old random schmoe who happened to be trying to sell his soul. You're also crediting a bunch of fiends (only one of whom is even Lawful) with being open and honest about their reasons with a person they were specifically tempting with the traditional Faustian deal--and the whole point of a Faustian deal is that it never comes out the way the sucker who accepts it expects.

[Dagren]

I dunno, another contract seems kind of redundant to the story, even though I agree I'd like this arc over with as soon as possible. Plus we have no evidence that there is anyone the Fiends can splice to V that will grant him the means to escape, the other splices presumably are now free and, like Haera, need to be recaptured.Remember, getting in needed the epic, getting out probably just needs a regular teleport spell, so that's only a level 13 wizard; lower level than V, in fact.

[Cúchulainn]

Remember, getting in needed the epic, getting out probably just needs a regular teleport spell, so that's only a level 13 wizard; lower level than V, in fact.

Ah, right. I was thrown off by David mentioning an Epic Teleport. Regardless of that, souls splices can only be used once in a century, so it's pretty much a moot point.

[elonin]

Remeber that V is back to the spells he had left before the splice. Given his desperation at not being able to chase the shadow dragon this does not include teleport. It stands to reason that V would have used that when given the chance rather then use invisibility (if Xyrcon doesn't already have an arcane sight or see invisibility up I'd be surprised).

More directly to the point, that Red-cloak knows what a soul spice is isn't that big a deal. When making the deal one of the fiends mentioned that this was a normal splice but with 3 spirits. So it's the multiple spice that is unique about that deal not the splice. And the three fiends must need V alive due to not being able to directly interact with the material plane. So that idea of using V after he dies seems moot to me.

[shadzar]

Ok. I'm going to say this slowly so we all understand.

I will say it slower for all to understand.....


That
is
why
Qarr
will
be
sent
to
open
the
door
.

[Kalbron]

... how would that help?

Xykon could see the Imp. Xykon could use a ranged AoE blasting spell to kill the Imp. V would likely be caught in the blast. V would die. Mission Failed.

Qarr being sent does nothing and helps nobody except Xykon.

[shadzar]

... how would that help?

Xykon could see the Imp. Xykon could use a ranged AoE blasting spell to kill the Imp. V would likely be caught in the blast. V would die. Mission Failed.

Qarr being sent does nothing and helps nobody except Xykon.

What reason would Xykon have to kill and imp wandering around and going in or out of a door, when he let the roaches follow him around all this time?

Maybe something like an imp with the remaining roaches could add a bit more color (I know they are all red) to his boring existence?

[Kalbron]

1) He didn't summon it.

2) He had recently been fighting another arcanist.

3) This other arcanist had demonstrated a capacity for Conjuration magics.

4) Redcloak is nowhere to be seen.

5) There were no Imps in the tower before now.

6) The other arcanist was fairly brutally beaten and would therefore be in a desperate mood.

Ergo, it is not an irrational conclusion for Xykon to come to for him to believe the elf summoned the Imp as some sort of pathetic last ditch effort to save himself. I'd assume that there would be some cutting remark made before another meteor swarm or the like got fired at the Imp.

[B. Dandelion]

More directly to the point, that Red-cloak knows what a soul spice is isn't that big a deal. When making the deal one of the fiends mentioned that this was a normal splice but with 3 spirits. So it's the multiple spice that is unique about that deal not the splice. And the three fiends must need V alive due to not being able to directly interact with the material plane. So that idea of using V after he dies seems moot to me.

In 633 the fiends say a single soul splice is a once-in-a-century deal that we shouldn't bother to look up. Three splices at once is unprecedented from within the lifetime of the entire multiverse. They're not handing the regular splices out like the mini sampler at the evil table in the supermarket. Either they were completely lying about the rarity -- which is a big deal as it means we we may see more soul splices down the line, or they were telling the truth and Redcloak's aware of something he's got no reason to be aware of -- which is a big deal as it almost certainly relates to the Gates in some aspect we have not yet been informed of.

[Zombie Nixon]

What reason would Xykon have to kill and imp wandering around and going in or out of a door, when he let the roaches follow him around all this time?

I don't think Qarr can get through the cloister anyway though

[shadzar]

@Kalbron:

Xykon didn't summon the roaches either. They just appeared at the least welcoming time.....I also don't think Xykon to be THAT paranoid, and RC was sent off to do something so that is why he isn't around.

Qarr may not be good at getting diplomacy done with his track record, but 3rd time lucky?


I don't think Qarr can get through the cloister anyway though

Probably true, but can the fiends send him in?

If not he could get close enough to fly through the big gaping hole in the wall, or come up the stairs and open the door from the other side to remove paranoia. :smalltongue:

[Kornaki]

If not he could get close enough to fly through the big gaping hole in the wall, or come up the stairs and open the door from the other side to remove paranoia. :smalltongue:


Umm... cloister covers the whole city. It would be more like he'll fly down from the clouds. That takes a couple rounds

[pendell]

Hmm ... check me on this, but 20 minutes is about 200 rounds, right?

Which means the fiends could have control of V for 1 extended combat or dramatic situation.

It occurs to me that, if they intervene at the proper time, V could give *them* control of the gate. I agree with some of the other posters here. They will open the gate in the Upper planes and scour them clean of the good Gods and their afterlives. Then evil will rule Stickworld, or whatever it's called.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[shadzar]

Umm... cloister covers the whole city. It would be more like he'll fly down from the clouds. That takes a couple rounds

Where is the tower? Can Qarr still become invisible? Is the whole in the Azure City wall repaired? Can he teleport right outside said whole? Is there a door ont he tower Xykon summoned? Can Qarr get in anyway to get tot he stairs thanks to knowing the layout in advance from the blood-plasma screen TV?

I wouldn't teleport into the clouds with the rift sitting like right there and all....but if he really wants to, I probably won't be able to convince him otherwise.

[EmeraldPhoenix]

It's been fairly well established that that was just a cover story. Quarr points out the obvious hole fairly quickly, and they also knew about OOTS from Sabine for quite a while.

My point was that

1.) the 3-person soulsplice was a first-time thing (which is why nobody'd ever heard of it)

2.) V dying means a dead customer and a lot of explaining to do,

3.) Nobody buys from people who's previous customers have died, even if it was the prev. customer's fault, and

4.) that means if V dies, directly after targeting Xykon (keep in mind that the targeting of Xykon was not necessarily BECAUSE the soul splice was in effect and something needed to be done, Xykon was the target from the first comic. But the soul splice IS the reason V had the ABILITY to get to Xykon, (and challenge him and (possibly) die in the challenge and can therefore be attributed blame)) then shi will be linked to the splices and the IFCC will lose all it's customers, investors, and credibility.

[Weimann]

That's utterly ignoring the fact that the fiends were clearly targeting V specifically, as Qarr noticed...they knew way too much about him and his friends for them to have just randomly picked the next wizard who came down the line. If they were specifically targeting V we have to ask why--he's most definitely not the highest level wizard in the world (his old master Aarindarius is more powerful, and there are probably others), so what makes him so special that they would specifically want to get him?

The simple answer: he's a member of the Order of the Stick and therefore knows about the Gates. There is nothing else that makes V special enough for a group of highly powered fiends to take an interest in.That is possible. Also possible, however, is that the fiends have noticed V's personality over the boat trip, made a prediction on what V could theoretically accomplish and sent out a pre-approved OK. There's no knowing that Aarindarius doesn't have one of those waiting if he ever bothered to ask.

I personally see little concrete proof that the fiends are out for more than their due share in this, but of course, I could be wrong.

Edit: and I also think Belkar=awsome has a point.

[B. Dandelion]

2.) V dying means a dead customer and a lot of explaining to do,

To who? Even if you're taking their story at face value, what they tell V is that it's their colleagues and superiors they want to take notice of their success --which is defined entirely by getting a mortal to accept their deal, what they do with it is supposedly irrelevant-- if they WOULDN'T have accepted for only one of the three. To prove that cooperation is more effective.


3.) Nobody buys from people who's previous customers have died, even if it was the prev. customer's fault, and

I think you're wrong on this count, no offense. I mean, this is typical for the deal-with-the-devil plot. Even if other people have met their end by accepting it, even if that's been UNIVERSALLY true for EVERY person who takes the deal, there is always someone proud enough to think that they are going to do it and they are going to get it RIGHT. Because they are better, smarter, and stronger than those who've come before; it will be different for them.

[David Argall]

What reason would Xykon have to kill and imp wandering around and going in or out of a door, when he let the roaches follow him around all this time?

We are talking xykon here. The question is more why he doesn't kill the roaches. An adequate reason to kill Qarr would be "He's within range."



That is possible. Also possible, however, is that the fiends have noticed V's personality over the boat trip, made a prediction on what V could theoretically accomplish and sent out a pre-approved OK. There's no knowing that Aarindarius doesn't have one of those waiting if he ever bothered to ask.

I personally see little concrete proof that the fiends are out for more than their due share in this,
We have little concrete proof of anything at any time in this strip, but the facts we have seem quite clear. The fiends only started getting interested in V when they heard about the gates from Sabine. They are going to an extreme amount of trouble. And that trouble will all be a waste if V doesn't survive the current danger.
This makes V's soul an unimportant consideration. They'll take it if they can, but it's still just chump change. So what besides the gates could be their motive?

[Douglas]

I personally see little concrete proof that the fiends are out for more than their due share in this, but of course, I could be wrong.
See anyone familiar in the 6th panel? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0380.html)

That, and what they're saying in that panel, is pretty conclusive to me.

[Weimann]

We have little concrete proof of anything at any time in this strip, but the facts we have seem quite clear. The fiends only started getting interested in V when they heard about the gates from Sabine. They are going to an extreme amount of trouble. And that trouble will all be a waste if V doesn't survive the current danger. This makes V's soul an unimportant consideration. They'll take it if they can, but it's still just chump change.So what besides the gates could be their motive?Point. I make no admittance, however, even if I admit it's a credible motif.