doesnt firing a meteor swarm at the guy holding your phylactery seem a tad dangerous?

[theinsulabot]

o-chul actually brings up his hands to protect his face from the spell, if he hadn't dropped the medallion first, it would of been blasted by a ninth level spell cast by an epic level sorcerer. i mean, yeah, we know now its covered in defensive spells, but blasting it with what has to date been the most deadly spell in your arsenal seems like a good way to blow 4 months and an assload of gold. which still assumes xykon's phylactery isnt a homebrewed version that can only be done once

EDIT: additionally, i am looking at the page, and while 3-d depth is always a littole hard to tell with oots, there is a meteor on a direct path to the medalion. if o-cghul had rolled one of his signature 20'sand jumped out of the way, it would of been another way the phylactery would of been blasted

[Superglucose]

Incidentally, here's a protip for you: if you're going to use area of effect spells, make anything you care about immune to that type of damage. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html)

[theinsulabot]

Incidentally, here's a protip for you: if you're going to use area of effect spells, make anything you care about immune to that type of damage. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html)

thought about that, but you misquoted the line. specifically, he says, craft yourself a magic item that makes you immune to that type of damage. now, it does logically follow that he would of warded the phylactory against flame, but i dont think you can raise an item to immunity through abjurations (could be wrong) so, firing at the phylactery means a roll would take place, and the meteor swarm has all of xykon's power behind it while the abjurations likely came from RC. in other words, xykon's own awesome power might be enough to trash the phylactery by accident. hell, might be one of the reasons he doesn't wear it himself

[[TS] Shadow]

Xykon is an epic-level caster. He obviously has high-level protection spells to cover the phylactery in case something like this happens. Xykon has faced some pretty high-level opponents in the past; he's bound to have protected his "life" from spells such as Meteor Swarm.

[ghostaxe]

I don't think it's that bad, actually. Remember that the Meteor Swarm is 4 times 6d6 damage, not 24d6 damage. Damage resistance/hardness applies to each ball. Additionally, fire damage does only half damage to objects, if I'm not mistaken.

6d6 damage is 21 expected, 36 max. Halved, that's 10.5 expected, 18 maxxed

Assuming the symbol's adamantine and has hardness 20, there's no way it'll get damaged.

[texascarl]

No worries. They're using a prophylactery.

[theinsulabot]

I don't think it's that bad, actually. Remember that the Meteor Swarm is 4 times 6d6 damage, not 24d6 damage. Damage resistance/hardness applies to each ball. Additionally, fire damage does only half damage to objects, if I'm not mistaken.

6d6 damage is 21 expected, 36 max. Halved, that's 10.5 expected, 18 maxxed

Assuming the symbol's adamantine and has hardness 20, there's no way it'll get damaged.


that's a good point, the phylactery has to be rocking 20 hardness. it would be at least that high even if it wasn't covered in defensive spells, so i guess unless xykon accidentally hit a really high damage roll the phylactery would be mostly safe

[KillianHawkeye]

Assuming the symbol's adamantine and has hardness 20, there's no way it'll get damaged.

All phylacteries have a hardness of 20 regardless of their construction.

[Flickerdart]

No worries. They're using a prophylactery.
Have an internet, good sir.

Immunity to fire is the easiest thing to get, especially at Epic. Immunity to Spells can also be done (either lots of SR, Protection from Spells, or possibly a Spell Mantle or Epic Globe of Invulnerability).

[Haven]

No worries. They're using a prophylactery.

Snerk. :smallsmile:

[ericgrau]

Fire damage is halved against objects and that's before you apply hardness, so it should be more than fine.

[Superglucose]

thought about that, but you misquoted the line.
I, uh, know.

[quiote]specifically, he says, craft yourself a magic item that makes you immune to that type of damage. now, it does logically follow that he would of warded the phylactory against flame, but i dont think you can raise an item to immunity through abjurations (could be wrong) [/QUOTE]
Epic magic can do anything.

[Alteran]

Epic magic can do anything.

Can it figure out why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch?

I mean, uh, yes. Xykon has surely warded his phylactery against powerful spells, since it's not unlikely that he'll get into more battles with high-level casters. It also seems likely that Redcloak could be around when that happens.

Also, according to some posters more knowledgeable than I, that may not even be necessary, since meteor swarm has 4 different explosions that can all be resisted by hardness.

...did I bring in anything new in this post? It doesn't look like I actually did, but I thought I had some ideas. Oh well.

[ABB]

The locket celia gave roy wasn't damaged by xykon's meteor swarm spell, and it wasn't even meant to be unbreakable.

[RMS Oceanic]

Also, Xykon states in the same comic that it is doped up to the eyeballs in abjurations, so he should have a good idea of what punishment it can take.

[ZeroNumerous]

Can it figure out why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch?

No, but it can mindrape you into thinking it can. :smalltongue:


The locket celia gave roy wasn't damaged by xykon's meteor swarm spell, and it wasn't even meant to be unbreakable.

Attended objects are exempt from damage unless the holder rolls a critical failure on his save.

[Dr. Cthulwho]

Shadow;6168245']Xykon is an epic-level caster. He obviously has high-level protection spells to cover the phylactery in case something like this happens. Xykon has faced some pretty high-level opponents in the past; he's bound to have protected his "life" from spells such as Meteor Swarm.

True. There is also a chance in his mind perhaps that he might have to throw spells at Redcloak one day - considering his MitD contingency should Redcloak betray him. I'd guess he'd want his phylactery to survive what Redcloak wouldn't.

Plus Redcloak often isn't far from Xykon and the high-level hi-jinks the pair get up to, so I'd guess he has a good idea of what it should be able to take in possible combat scenarios.

[Boogastreehouse]

No worries. They're using a prophylactery.

Heh. Awesome.

You've just been waiting for the opportunity to make that joke, haven't you?

[Manga Shoggoth]

No worries. They're using a prophylactery.

I'm sure Tsukiko is happy that Xykon is practicing safe hex.

[hotgamerchick]

I'm sure Tsukiko is happy that Xykon is practicing safe hex.

And a cookie for you *laugh*

[texascarl]

Heh. Awesome.

You've just been waiting for the opportunity to make that joke, haven't you?

Yeah. :smallsmile: Never make your move too soon.

[the_tick_rules]

Xykon has apparently buffed the heck out of it. Considering apparently Xykon has apparently made himself highly resistant if not immune to fire it seems logical the amulet has the same. But then again how often when a PC gets hit with fire, acid etc do we make damage rolls on the items they're carrying?

[doodthedud]

I don't think it's ever wise to go casting high-level spells at your phylactery, no matter how well-protected it is.

[Kornaki]

Also, Xykon states in the same comic that it is doped up to the eyeballs in abjurations, so he should have a good idea of what punishment it can take.

He also doesn't remember what half of them do. Normally I would take this to be hyperbole, but this is Xykon....


But then again how often when a PC gets hit with fire, acid etc do we make damage rolls on the items they're carrying?

This could pop up later... at the final gate:

V: Did you remember to roll for damage for your phylactery?
X:Oh crap! *poof*

[Dork Lord]

Epic magic can do anything.

Actually if you read the rules for them, epic spells aren't that great. You can't apply metamagic feats to them, which is what makes high level spellcasting truly awesome. For any epic spell that's even remotely good you usually have to be capable of making a Spellcraft check of 70+ (but often well in excess of 100), which under normal circumstances would require you to be a level 40-150 caster. Ridiculous imho. Even worse, assuming you can even cast anything but the most basic epic spells, the spells themselves... aren't very good. There's a spell called Greater Ruin that deals... brace yourself... 35d6, which averages out to be 105 damage. And you have to spend 2000 xp. I'd be better off casting an Empowered Maximized Scorching Ray for 108 damage and only have to spend an 8th level slot. There's another spell that summons 10 adult Red Dragons, which sounds impressive, until you read that it requires ten additional casters to cast the spell in a ritual, and that every caster in the group has to spend 2800 xp. To be honest, that Familicide spell the Necromancer cast through V would likely be a 300 DC Spellcraft check to cast via the existing rules.

Now let me also say that I like how Rich handles epic magic in his comic. It's not how epic magic actually works in D&D, but I wish it was. Impressive spells effortlessly cast by an epic mage... that's good stuff right there. :smallsmile:

[Juron Pilo]

If you're going to give mages that, why not give fighters and monks and such DBZ level abilities at epic levels too?

[Kornaki]

If you're going to give mages that, why not give fighters and monks and such DBZ level abilities at epic levels too?

Well, let's look at some of the available epic level feats..

http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/epicFeats.html#vorpal-strike

http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/epicFeats.html#devastating-critical

http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/epicFeats.html#distant-shot

But yeah, in general the feats they get aren't so great (actually, these ones suck pretty hard in your standard undead filled underground dungeon)

[tyckspoon]

-examples of why the pre-written Epic spells suck-

Which is exactly why any sensible person doesn't use the pre-written Epic spells. They also don't usually use the offensive Seeds; metamagic'd normal spells do that much better, mostly because converting an Epic spell to a combat-usable single-round cast just wastes 20 Spellcraft DC. No, the power in Epic spells is in the buffs and defenses it enables. For example, assuming the caster can reliably hit Spellcraft 46:
Epic Mage Armor: +20 Armor, lasts 24 hours
Epic Barkskin: +20 Nat. Armor, 24 hours
Epic Animal's Stat Buff: +15 enhancement to preferred stat (make it Int so you can hit higher Spellcraft checks..), 20 hours
Epic Ward for protection from any spell you find particularly irritating.
The Summon seed would count here, but Gate does it so much better.

You can increase duration by 100%, stacking, for just a +2 DC increase. Interestingly, you can also reduce DC by 2 by increasing casting time by one minute, up to a max of ten minutes.. so you can make the Armor seed last up to 10 days by making the spell take ten minutes to cast. Or have your Epic Int Buff hang around for about 8 days. Put them on the whole party, it costs you nothing once you've developed the spells. +40 AC for everybody all the time (mind, everything that's still a threat to you will either make touch attacks or not care about AC at all, but it's still fun to have everybody's AC double or more from their pre-epic numbers.)

[Juron Pilo]

Vorpal Strike: Hits with slashing damage that basically might kill with one blow on a crit. Doesn't even make an impact crator, although I wonder if a Monk with or without it might be able to break swords, which is a halfhearted DBZ style move.

Devastating Critical: ooh a move that kills in one blow... but only on a freaking critical. That doesn't even meet Fist of the North Star standards.

Distant Shot shoot at any distance in a vison range that has neccessarily trained to pretty much perfection? Yeah...

Though admitedly, one thing we havn't accounted for is the possibility for massive damage due to simpler feats like Power Strike. What theoretically is the AC and hp of a wall(if I'm getting the terms right... I figure if items have breaking points then so do walls... right? And it probably follows that an epic level character could do some hefty damage compared to what it takes to break an item. Need to find the rules for breaking stuff.

Oh, and that would still only be environment damage. You still couldn't take out a town or larger with one attack, and you'd need to strike some sort of critical support beam or something to take down a structure.

[NerfTW]

I, uh, know.


specifically, he says, craft yourself a magic item that makes you immune to that type of damage. now, it does logically follow that he would of warded the phylactory against flame, but i dont think you can raise an item to immunity through abjurations (could be wrong)
Epic magic can do anything.

And he destroyed his awesome zombie dragon with meteor swarm during the battle. So there's a previous instance of him losing something he liked with his favorite spell, meaning he's likely to remember to ward the phylactery against it too. (And hopefully Red Cloak has those same epic items, since Xykon knows he needs him to control the gates.)

[Roderick_BR]

I don't think it's that bad, actually. Remember that the Meteor Swarm is 4 times 6d6 damage, not 24d6 damage. Damage resistance/hardness applies to each ball. Additionally, fire damage does only half damage to objects, if I'm not mistaken.

6d6 damage is 21 expected, 36 max. Halved, that's 10.5 expected, 18 maxxed

Assuming the symbol's adamantine and has hardness 20, there's no way it'll get damaged.
Doesn't energy resistance count for round instead of attack? Anyway, as Xykon said, that thing have to many protections not even he can remember all of them, but knowing how he can be rekless, RC probably made him protect it against strong blasting attacks as well.

[marquiz]

Resist energy grants energy resistance 10, 20 or 30, depending on level, and by definition a creature with energy resistance ignores some damage of the indicated type each time it takes damage of that kind, not once per round. Not to mention, since, to the best of my knowledge various damage reductions do not stack (anyone has a specific link for it?), a phylactery requires energy resistance 41 just to have more defenses against fire, than its natural state.

As has been stated up by Ghostaxe, a meteor swarm spell cannot penetrate any object that has more than 18 hardness, unless it is enhanced with metamagic.(even then, one would require maximum damage for a whooping 7 fire damage per ball and still not enough damage from bludgeoning impact.)

[batsofchaos]

And he destroyed his awesome zombie dragon with meteor swarm during the battle. So there's a previous instance of him losing something he liked with his favorite spell, meaning he's likely to remember to ward the phylactery against it too. (And hopefully Red Cloak has those same epic items, since Xykon knows he needs him to control the gates.)

You're ignoring the fact that Xykon states a zombie dragon without a bite attack is fairly useless. Sure, he liked the dragon, but he set out purposely to destroy it. I don't think it particularly struck him that "hey, my meteor swarm killed the dragon that I liked, I should make sure my phylactery is protected against that specific spell!" I think the more likely explanation is that after the close call with Soon, Xykon realized how vulnerable his phylactery is when confronted with epic level resistence (which we know he's expecting to encounter) and abjured the crap out of it.

[Zherog]

Attended objects are exempt from damage unless the holder rolls a critical failure on his save.

Yep. And even then, only one item is damaged and there's a set hierarchy that's followed, with weapons and armor at the top of the list as I recall. So even if O'Chul rolled a 1 on his save, his "weapon" would be the object affected by the spell, not the held amulet.

[Dork Lord]

Which is exactly why any sensible person doesn't use the pre-written Epic spells. They also don't usually use the offensive Seeds; metamagic'd normal spells do that much better, mostly because converting an Epic spell to a combat-usable single-round cast just wastes 20 Spellcraft DC. No, the power in Epic spells is in the buffs and defenses it enables. For example, assuming the caster can reliably hit Spellcraft 46:
Epic Mage Armor: +20 Armor, lasts 24 hours
Epic Barkskin: +20 Nat. Armor, 24 hours
Epic Animal's Stat Buff: +15 enhancement to preferred stat (make it Int so you can hit higher Spellcraft checks..), 20 hours
Epic Ward for protection from any spell you find particularly irritating.
The Summon seed would count here, but Gate does it so much better.

You can increase duration by 100%, stacking, for just a +2 DC increase. Interestingly, you can also reduce DC by 2 by increasing casting time by one minute, up to a max of ten minutes.. so you can make the Armor seed last up to 10 days by making the spell take ten minutes to cast. Or have your Epic Int Buff hang around for about 8 days. Put them on the whole party, it costs you nothing once you've developed the spells. +40 AC for everybody all the time (mind, everything that's still a threat to you will either make touch attacks or not care about AC at all, but it's still fun to have everybody's AC double or more from their pre-epic numbers.)

Perhaps... but still, having DCs in the 200-300s is ridiculous. Who's going to have a level 250 character? We've been playing our epic game for months and we're barely level 23.

[Callista]

I'm betting that Xykon's enchanted the phylactery with fire immunity. First thing some do-gooder's going to try when he can't destroy the thing is to drop it into an active volcano. I mean, it's the classic method of destroying the Possessed Object of Doom, right?

[Teln]

Yep. And even then, only one item is damaged and there's a set hierarchy that's followed, with weapons and armor at the top of the list as I recall. So even if O'Chul rolled a 1 on his save, his "weapon" would be the object affected by the spell, not the held amulet.

Hmm, that's interesting to know.

Let me just see if I'm understanding this right:

Character A is threatening Character B with a dagger. A is holding no other weapons. Character C is standing directly behind A. B is directly in front of A. C throws a magic dart at A's butt and A rolls a natural 1 on the save. Assuming that the dart is enchanted enough for its damage to overcome the dagger's hardness, the dagger takes damage, right?

[Kornaki]

Hmm, that's interesting to know.

Let me just see if I'm understanding this right:

Character A is threatening Character B with a dagger. A is holding no other weapons. Character C is standing directly behind A. B is directly in front of A. C throws a magic dart at A's butt and A rolls a natural 1 on the save. Assuming that the dart is enchanted enough for its damage to overcome the dagger's hardness, the dagger takes damage, right?

The object needs to be inside the field of effect (not sure what the proper term is for this) in order to be affected... so if you just shoot a magical dart that targets a single creature, the object isn't going to be affected by the spell anyway, so doesn't need to make a saving throw. If you shoot a fireball though, the object is inside the radius of effect of the spell in this case, so has to make a saving throw. Here's the rule on how this works:

http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/carryingAndExploration.html#damaged-objects

If you had shot your magical dart at the dagger the person was holding instead of at the person, then it would get to make a saving throw if the spell permits one.