a question about my character 3.5

[Mystic Muse]

I'm currently a level 1 paladin. I plan on taking paladin up until level 4 and then ditching it because there's nothing else I want to use from the class.:smalltongue:

is there a class that would complement a paladin well? nothing too overpowered though. my DM specifically told me I couldn't use something if it seemed overpowered. also I don't want to multiclass more than twice so if something requires 5 different classes to be useful then forget about it.

[Starscream]

Depends on your build and what sort of character you want to play.

Definitely cleric if you want spellcasting. Maybe fighter if you just want to focus on combat. Monk is okay, but you'd need to ditch your armor. Bard if you have the charisma for it, and don't mind wearing light armor.

Are you allowed to use ToB? A Paladin/Crusader would be pretty awesome. They two classes have a lot in common, but the Crusader is much deadlier in a fight.

As for PRCs, there's always Blackguard for an interesting bad guy. Knight of the Chalice from CW is pretty sweet. I'm not sure what the prereqs are, though.

[gibbo88]

Depends what sort of Paladin/character you want to have. There is a whole bunch of options in the Complete Divine book and they don't all have the massive level of zeal required for Paladins. Try looking in there. Failing that I can't remember if you loose all your pally powers for leaving the class, but anything martial you have a good shot at given that they usually rely on your BAB and a mix of feats. Complete Warrior and Adventurer would be the place to look.

What sorta thing you want?

[Darrin]

is there a class that would complement a paladin well? nothing too overpowered though. my DM specifically told me I couldn't use something if it seemed overpowered. also I don't want to multiclass more than twice so if something requires 5 different classes to be useful then forget about it.

Knight of the Raven from Expedition to Castle Ravenloft. You can go into it directly after Paladin 4. It has full BAB, 9/10 casting, and a celestial raven companionish thing that is so annoying, you might as well call the PrC "101 Things To Do With A Dead Raven". Combine this with Battle Blessing, which allows you to cast Paladin spells as a swift action. This means you can cast + move + attack all in the same round.

Add Sword of the Arcane Order (Champions of Valor) if you can. This allows you to prepare Wizard spells in your spell slots. Note: If you DM allows this, check with him to see if he considers these spells to be Arcane or Divine, because the feat description is somewhat vague. If Arcane, then there are a variety of other PrCs you now qualify for (such as Spellsword, Eldritch Knight, Knight Phantom, etc.). If Divine, then you can use Battle Blessing to cast them as swift actions.

[Kroy]

I'm a fan of Champion of Correllion Something. It increases Lay on Hands, and has quite a few nifty abilities that are good for people who fight in medium armor (Mithril Fullplate). Races of the Wild

[Tsotha-lanti]

What do you want to do?

Complete Divine has Pious Templar, which makes you a great smiter. Go paladin 5 and get charging smite from PHB2 instead of a mount.

Complete Divine also has Divine Crusader, is it? You can get in at level 7 (so paladin 5/fighter 2; get charging smite). You get 3/4 BAB, but you get divine spells up to 9th level, although you only get them from one domain. (Choose well!)

Champions of Valor has Knight of the Weave, with 3/4 BAB, armored casting, and spontaneous arcane spellcasting up to level 6 spells from your own spell list.

Then there's the paladin/bard. You need Champions of Valor for the Initiate of Milil feat, Frostburn for the Snowflake Wardance feat, and Complete Adventurer for the Devoted Performer feat (which lets you multiclass bard and paladin despite being Lawful Good, before someone whines about that one again...). Ultimate Charisma synergy, but you can only use a one-handed slashing weapon. Then you can go into some good bard PrC.

No matter the build, the divine feats in Complete Warrior are necessary - especially Divine Might, which is a must.

They're not really optimized, but paladins seldom are. They're all cool and fun, though.

Edit: Oh, yes. If you're an elf, Champion of Corellon Larethian from Races of the Wild is rather cool. You'll need a high Dexterity, though, and you'll want to use the elven courtblade.

[BooNL]

There's also the Paladin/Ranger for a sort of hunter-esque paladin build. There's a feat, (devoted tracker?) which combines your animal companion and your mount. That way you can have a pretty strong horse.

[Person_Man]

Most of the good advice has already been given. In particular, Darrin's suggestions of Battle Blessing + Sword of the Arcane Order works quite well. There's also a Paladin of Mystra variant in Champions of Valor that gives you additional spells per day.

I'd add that by stopping at level 4 you're giving up the Paladin's most powerful class feature - the Special Mount (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106815). Combine it with Leadership (which makes a strait Paladin quite playable) or a good mount improving PrC (Ashworm Dragoon, Aglarondan Griffin Rider, or Knight of the Iron Glacier) and you essentially get a second PC. I'm also very fond of mounted combat, as it combines mobility, high damage output, and potentially battlefield control (lance is a reach weapon). You can also take Saddleback (Races of Faerun) to replace your Ref Save with a Ride check (ie, you always pass you Ref Save).

[Mystic Muse]

should have mentioned I was half elf.

I'd also like to avoid arcane classes. they aren't really my thing and I don't think my DM specifically forbid tome of battle or anything else. they just said nothing overpowered.

I'll get complete champion and tome of battle. I'll get a few more once I can. my library has a five hold limit, doesn't have any of those books at my branch and I already have three other books about D&D on hold. STUPID FIVE HOLD LIMIT! I DARN YOU TO HECK!

dang. no tome of battle or complete warrior at my library.

[Tsotha-lanti]

Oh, yeah, there's also the paladin/cavalier for that mounted combat stuff. Want to go Saint George on some dragons' asses with 400 damage? That's the way to do it. Power Attack on a mounted lance charge with your cavalier abilities means dragon giblets.

I've never worked out the numbers, but paladin/ranger (devoted tracker)/cavalier might work as well or better, I suppose? Smash on Leadership, and maybe Draconic Cohort and/or Draconic Mount (I think those are the feats?) from Draconomicon and you'll be a flying, lance-charging holy terror.

Cavalier is in Complete Warrior, unfortunately.

[Mystic Muse]

I ALSO forgot to mention I'm not going to use a mount. I don't like them which is why I'm getting out before 5th level. there isn't anything I care to stick around for.

[shadzar]

Paladin...part fighter part cleric....

How about druid? :smallconfused:

Gives you the healing abilities of the paladin mixed with the clerical and fighting power of the druid. Builds on the same foundation but works a bit different for more chances to do things.

OK so the whole alignment thing gets in the way but it could be fun otherwise! :smallfurious:

Bard I guess....

[Berserk Monk]

I'd go fighter to make an effective warrior.

[Mystic Muse]

never mind. my library DOES have tome of battle and is currently on hold. I was not aware that tome of battle and the book of nine swords were the same.

I'll look at multiclassing into fighter as well

[Tsotha-lanti]

I ALSO forgot to mention I'm not going to use a mount. I don't like them which is why I'm getting out before 5th level. there isn't anything I care to stick around for.

I mentioned this already, but PHB2 gives you the option of switching special mount out for charging smite (if you use smite evil on a charge attack, it does extra damage equal to your level; I forget if that's class level or character level, though).

It pretty much makes level 5 the last good level of paladin.

[Mystic Muse]

that could be extremely useful. I thank everybody who has currently posted for their help and thank everybody who WILL post in the future.

[Deepblue706]

If you take the Paladin to 5, you can always become a Kensai. Although admittedly, you could do Paladin 4/Fighter1 just as well.

Kensai is a fairly basic Prestige Class, which gives you access to powerful magic for your "signiature weapon" earlier on -which requires weapon focus- giving you +1 per level taken, up to +10 of enhancements at level 10. There are some other neat abilities, but this is the primary feature of the class.

It's a shame you don't want the mount, because if your chosen weapon is a Lance, you'll have a special mount to use it with. Lances do double damage on a mounted charge, and making that Lance especially badass is a good way to top things off.

All of the skill prerequisites are all in-class for Paladin, and the only feat requirements are Weapon Focus and Combat Expertise. You need to be Lawful (which you'll be), and you need to have an Oath of Service (which can be to an Ideal, making it great for a Paladin). It's in Complete Warrior, check it out.

[Xallace]

If you do take Paladin 5, I second the Charging Smite. Oh, and I believe Charging Smite deals an additional 2 points of damage per level (making that 3 points of damage/level), on a charging smite. And if I recall, the Smite isn't wasted on a miss. Unless there's been some errata on that I'm not aware of.

Also, Hellreaver from Fiendish Codex 2: Tyrants of the Nine Hells lets you continue being paladin-esque. It doesn't improve any of your paladin abilities, but you gain a bunch of new powers for kicking evil's arse. Improved Smite-like powers and such.

Are you exalted? Fist of Raziel from Book of Exalted Deeds improves your paladin casting and has many smite-o-rific abilities. Chain-Smites and such... would synergize well with Charging Smite.

[Mystic Muse]

I'm not sure what exalted means. this is my very first 3.5 campaign and hellreaver doesn't sound that great to me.

are knight of the chalice,
knight of the purple dragon.
and some undead slayer class that sounded good because it could permanently prevent an undead from coming back which would be useful against liches if I ever face one in the campaign any good?

[shadzar]

I'm not sure what exalted means. this is my very first 3.5 campaign

Book of Exalted Deeds. Many feats and such in there for use with Lawful Good characters.

Most everything in the book does something against evil characters just by looking at them funny to cause them agonizing pain....sort of.

[Narmoth]

I'd make him a:
Celric 1 - cleric spell list
Prestigeous Paladin something (Unearthened Arcana)- for cleric spell advancement rather than paladin spell list
Ordained Champion (Complete Champion) - smite anything lvl 1, channel spell into weapon at lvl 3

[Mystic Muse]

I was also thinking of taking the extra smite feat

is monkey grip REALLY as bad as people say it is? seems pretty good to me.( seems I have a complete warrior PDF I was unaware of for some reason)

[Sstoopidtallkid]

is monkey grip REALLY as bad as people say it is? seems pretty good to me.( seems I have a complete warrior PDF I was unaware of for some reason)Yes. Power attack allows you to trade AB for damage at a 2-1 rate. Monkey Grip allows you to wield a larger weapon(generally a +2 boost in damage or lower, unless you're a Monk, in which case MG is useless) with a -2 penalty. Power Attack is far more adaptable(since you can choose how much penalty you want based on opponent AC), effective(you can lose all your AB for a massive damage increase), and versatile(you don't need to track down a Large Greatsword to get the benefit).

[Mystic Muse]

okay just wondering.

[Doresain]

shadowbane inquisitor from complete adventurer...if you want the cool 40k inquisition feel to your character

[Mystic Muse]

what are the benefits? I don't really care so much about the "feel" of a class only whether or not they actually help my character. otherwise I'd go straight to level 20 with my Paladin.

[Narmoth]

Yes. Power attack allows you to trade AB for damage at a 2-1 rate. Monkey Grip allows you to wield a larger weapon(generally a +2 boost in damage or lower, unless you're a Monk, in which case MG is useless) with a -2 penalty. Power Attack is far more adaptable(since you can choose how much penalty you want based on opponent AC), effective(you can lose all your AB for a massive damage increase), and versatile(you don't need to track down a Large Greatsword to get the benefit).

Powerattack and smite evil with 2-handed weapon: trade all attack bonuses for dmg bonus x 2
Damn that hurts

[Faleldir]

I've heard some good things about Ruby Knight Vindicator. If you have a lot of Turn Undead attempts, you should consider it. The book even says it can be adapted to other religions without changing any mechanics.

[Doc Roc]

RkV is generally considered to be in the top ten classes constructed. I don't care. It's too much fun to play one or play alongside one to give a damn about power levels. A well played RkV can lift a party from the jaws of defeat without making anyone feel useless. This is what you want in a character.




Right?



Right?

[Sinfire Titan]

RkV is generally considered to be in the top ten classes constructed. I don't care. It's too much fun to play one or play alongside one to give a damn about power levels. A well played RkV can lift a party from the jaws of defeat without making anyone feel useless. This is what you want in a character.




Right?



Right?

Depends. A normal, moderately optimized RKV can contribute wonderfully to the melee and spellcasting aspects of a party. Pally 4/Crusader 2/RKV 10/Ordained Champion 4 (how they get into Ordained Champion is up for debate) with Battle Blessing and Sword of the Arcane Order can do some nice things.


On the other hand, Chuck the Ruby Knight Windicator makes everyone feel small in the pants.

[Narmoth]

I've heard some good things about Ruby Knight Vindicator. If you have a lot of Turn Undead attempts, you should consider it. The book even says it can be adapted to other religions without changing any mechanics.

From what book?
I have a cleric 1/paladin 5/blackguard 7/ordained champion 3 that I don't quite know where to advance

[olentu]

I believe that the ruby knight vindicator is in tome of battle.

[Doc Roc]

On the other hand, Chuck the Ruby Knight Windicator makes everyone feel small in the pants.

Chuck E. Cheese got errata'd to death, if you refer to the uh.... former holder of the land speed record. I'd consider the Ruby Shadow a somewhat better benchmark, myself. It's just on the threshold of omgwtfbbq. I have some deep love for that build, given that it's what helped get me back into 3.5 after a year and a half away.

[elliott20]

I'm pretty sure that the cheese factor is not what he's looking for here. But still RKV is an awesome PrC.

Of course there are still two questions you need to answer before anyone can give you a decent answer.

1. where is your party in terms of the optimization spectrum. A ridiculously twinked out enough party might warrant some of the more obscene builds.

2. what is your own character concept for this guy? I don't mean like, classes + race + alignment combo, but what kind of general archetypes and feel are you shooting for?

[JellyPooga]

I'm going to second Shadowbane Inquisitor...it's not the most badass PrC going mechanically, but it's all sorts of badass thematically. You have to multiclass Rogue (or find another source of Sneak Attack), but once you're into the PrC you're back on the Full BAB track again, you can start smiting whoever you like (instead of just evil guys), gain lasting bonuses for taking down the badguys and get to emit bad-guy-blasting light intead of turning undead. Oh and you get a bit more Sneak Attack too. It's also a PrC designed for you to turn evil at the later stages of your character development as it practically hands you the prerequisites for Blackguard on a plate and gives you a whole bunch of freebies if you do (arguably).

[Mystic Muse]

okay for my character I am absolutey NOT becoming evil. the DM has expressly forbidden evil and so have I. I don't like playing evil characters. it gives me the kind of dirty feeling ten twenty minute showers don't even come close to removing.

my character was ideally going to be neutral good. that way I can do both lawful and chaotic options. however a prerequisite for paladins is lawful good. I'm going to focus a lot more on good than law. my paladin also is going to avoid the stick up the *** feature some paladins insist upon taking. I don't know what all else you want.I'd give you the definition of good I follow but unfortunately that counts as religious discussion which is banned on this board and will give me the final infraction I need to be banned.and I don't want that.

as far as optimization goes. my DM says "nothing too powerful" so cheese is definitely forbidden.I need a build that complements paladin well WITHOUT taking more than TWO multiclasses which I SPECIFICALLY said in my earlier posts. I just need a build that's powerful, wouldn't take too much spotlight away from two other new players and doesn't take fifty multiclasses to be useful. my DM has not forbidden any sourcebooks, all he said is "nothing too powerful" and that it has to be approved by him.

might have forgotten to mention. I'm half elf if that affects anything. and also I have no clue what most abreviations mean so please say what they are instead of just saying BAB or BAMF

[Goatman_Ted]

as far as optimization goes. my DM says "nothing too powerful" so cheese is definitely forbidden. I need a build that complements paladin well WITHOUT taking more than TWO multiclasses which I SPECIFICALLY said in my earlier posts. I just need a build that's powerful, wouldn't take too much spotlight away from two other new players and doesn't take fifty multiclasses to be useful. my DM has not forbidden any sourcebooks, all he said is "nothing too powerful" and that it has to be approved by him.
I get the vibe optimization is kinda inappropriate for this game...

So I'd give Ruby Knight Vindicator another vote.
Complete Champion makes the class even better with options like Battle Blessing and the Devotion feats.
Spell Compendium makes spellcasting worthwhile.

Even without one of the components, any of those sources will give you a solid build (Complete Champion for Devotion feats and Ordained Champion, Spell Compendium to boost Paladin 20).

[Mystic Muse]

yeah. when I'm in a game where other people are capable of optimizing then I'll get cheese. for now the only cheese I'm having is on cheeseburgers and crackers.

what book is ruby knight vindicator from? it's easier to look in one book than to look at twelve dozen.

[Person_Man]

Various things:

1) Cavalier is actually a pretty cruddy PrC. It's Pounce-like ability specifically states that it can't be used with a Charge. Instead, you can make a normal movement, and then make a full attack. While that's pretty meaningless for most other builds, for a mounted lance build (which gets it's damaged multiplied on a Charge) it sucks.

2) Hellreaver rocks. While in combat, they can heal 10, 20, or 30 points of damage (depending on your level) as a SWIFT action EVERY ROUND to you or any Good ally within a short range. They also get immunity to Fear (making a Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Paladin of Freedom (www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantcharacterclasses.htm) 4 the best entry to the class), plus Mettle and a few Smite-like abilities. Combine it with some Vampiric-ish weapons, and you're ridiculously hard to take down.

3) Monkey Grip really does suck. A lot.

4) Ruby Knight Vindicator lets you burn Turn Undead uses to recover a Maneuver or gain an additional Swift Action. This can be abused a number of ways, the easiest being a Shadow Pounce build. It also requires that you worship We Jas, btw.

5) I agree that the Shadowbane Inquisitor has interesting fluff, but it's pretty lousy mechanically. A few dice of Sneak Attack, Improved Sunder, and a few minor light and Smite related abilities.

6) The one benefit to being a Half Elf is the Sociable Personality feat, from Races of Destiny. It lets you re-roll any Gather Information or Diplomacy check. Diplomacy is quite easy to optimize, and it's an especially good choice for a Paladin.

7) Maybe a Paladin 4/Bard 1/Warchanter X? You'd only lose 1 point of BAB, and you'd open the door to all sorts of Inspire Courage and Fear optimization. Works particularly well if you have a caster in your group that uses a lot of Summon spells.

[Mystic Muse]

hmm. maybe I could convince my DM to allow me to change to a paladin fo freedom. is that absolutely necesarry for a hellreaver?

and I'm sorry for my noobishness but what's BAB? and while I'm asking what's BAMF and LARP?

[Tempest Fennac]

BAB is Base Attack Bonus. It grants a bonus to attack (to hit) rolls and when you get 6 points of BAB you gain 1 extra attack when making a Full Attack. I don't know what BAMF is buy LARP is Live Action Role Playing, which basically involved RPing in real life as though you were your character.

[Person_Man]

hmm. maybe I could convince my DM to allow me to change to a paladin fo freedom. is that absolutely necesarry for a hellreaver?

Paladin of Freedom is not required for Hellreaver. Hellreaver requires any Good alignment, so Lawful Good and Chaotic Good work equally well to get into the class. However, both regular Paladin and Hellreaver grant immunity to Fear. Thus you're essentially wasting a class level if you're a normal Paladin/Hellreaver. On the other hand, Paladin of Freedom provides immunity to Compulsion (www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Compulsion_Subschool), which covers most of the Enchantment school (Sleep, Hold Person, Dominate Person, etc). When put together with immunity to Fear from Hellreaver, you're pretty much immune to 90% of anything Willpower Save related. And being Chaotic Good, a Paladin of Freedom can multiclass in Barbarian (specifically, Lion Totem Barbarian using the Complete Champion variant), which is one of the simplest ways to get Pounce (www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5884385) (the ability to make a full attack at the end of a Charge).

So Paladin 4/Fighter 1/Hellreaver X is good, but Paladin of Freedom 4/Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Hellreaver X is better.


and I'm sorry for my noobishness but what's BAB? and while I'm asking what's BAMF and LARP?

BAB = Base Attack Bonus. Base Attack Bonus is usually the biggest part of your To-Hit modifier. It also determines the number of Iterative Attacks you get. It also determines how powerful your Power Attack (www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Power_Attack) feat is.
It determines part of your To-Hit bonus

BAMF is the sound that Nightcrawler (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightcrawler_(comics)) makes when he teleports. More specifically, Nightcrawler is known for being able to teleport rapidly, attacking his target(s) each time he teleports. You can accomplish this in 3.5 D&D as well, though it requires obscure and setting specific combinations to do so.

LARP is Live Action Role Playing (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_action_role-playing_game). It's when you physically act out your character (as opposed to table top roleplaying).

[Goatman_Ted]

what's BAMF

That one guy that all the frat bros want to be like.


But I think you were the first one to use it, which makes me confused.

[OverdrivePrime]

BAMF is the sound that Nightcrawler (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightcrawler_(comics)) makes when he teleports.

Note that BAMF is also an abbreviation for the sound that Samuel L. Jackson makes.

[woodenbandman]

RKV is generally less useful for Paladins than it is for Clerics, if only because cleric spellcasting is the best thing ever. Still, multiple quickened paladin spells per round are sweet. A cool build is Crusader1/Paladin 4/RKV 10/Crusader +5. You'll be a great tank.

[Mystic Muse]

maybe in case I can't convince my DM I allow my character to die.

what book is paladin of freedom in?

[Leon]

Unearthed Arcarna, also available in the Free online SRD

[Mystic Muse]

thank you very much.

[Leon]

If your looking at the BoED the Anointed Knight (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Anointed_knight) is a decent class, you just need to get some ranks into Alchemy and a couple of other things
Meshes well with the Paladin for CHA synergy in addition to suiting the holy warrior style too

(im very AFB so i cant place the details needed)

[Mystic Muse]

okay. I looked at bear totem barbarian and don't see why one level would affect anything. is there anything else that would be a good entrance to the class? dragon totem sounds a lot better for one level. is there anything else? right now I'm thinking paladin of freedom 5/hellreaver10. I thought all you could use as a mount was a horse. now I'm aware I could ride a great wyrm gold dragon:smallbiggrin:

is there anything else that would be good for this? I like the idea of the hellreaver's ability to make an evil outsider explode at level 10.

and please no abbreviations. I can't understand what you're saying.

[Brom]

Might I recommend this? (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Divine_Might,)

Basically, it's a feat that lets you take Turn Undead (can be useful, but it's just a nonfunctional class feature when you're not hacking Zombies and not always great when you are due to -3 turning level and the party cleric) into bonus damage. Which, if you go the Power Attack/Extra smite route, is potent.

This isn't optimized. Just a greatsword, Smite, Full Attack, Power Attack, and you. Actually, I did a modest amount of optimization around this and did a high charisma monkey with a Two-Bladed Sword. it adds charisma to all attacks that round, so my first thought was, ''How do I increase attacks/round?"

I worked out that if everything hits and you roll average, a level 8 Paladin/2 Monk can manage over 100 damage in a round (full attack + this + smite, no power attack).

Which is why I like it. Extra damage without lowering chance to hit. Of course, you can add heaps more by accepting the lowered to hit.

[Mystic Muse]

that's a rather interesting idea. I will indeed think about it although I don't know if I want to take my paladin level past 5. nothing that great after you get a mount. MAN I want a great wyrm gold dragon. that or a purple wurm. I'll definitely look but I don't think paladin's of freedom get anything that great at level 8

sorry for being picky and asking for so many classes but I'd like more than two or three choices.

[Talic]

If you want to look into paladin variants for this ability:

Charging Smite Paladin: If you smite on a charge, you deal +3 damage per paladin level, instead of +1. Cost? Give up your mount.

Holy Warrior Paladin: Gain Bonus feats at levels 4, 8, 11, and 14. Cost? Give up spellcasting.

Now, with the Extra Smiting or extra turning feat, you can get additional smites, which can work well... Or extra turning, to power divine might.

Now, Paladin of Freedom 4/L.T. Barbarian 1/Hellreaver X can:

Full attack charge, with divine might, to gain Cha bonus to damage on every attack, on top of Str bonus. If you're wearing Slippers of Battledancing, you can now add Cha twice.

Can't remember source for charging smite. Holy Warrior is Complete Champion.

Slippers of Battledancing is DMG2.

[warrl]

It seems to me like all the replies so far have been about optimizing - with a few of them being "optimizing, but not so much your DM objects".

What about the character's viewpoint?

WHY is this character, a paladin of moderate status, going to turn to another course?

There are lots of possible answers to this, and which one is chosen could affect how your character behaves thereafter - including what other class he takes - and what powers and abilities he or she has. Also, some of them may require your DM's cooperation to fit into the story.

Was your character asked to pursue another class, for the good of an order of holy knights or some mission that said order had taken on?

Was your character of limited dedication in the first place, becoming a Paladin for some purpose which has now been achieved?

Did your character have his will and spirit broken, losing faith in himself and/or his deity?

Or what? How and why?

[Mystic Muse]

the deity laughed at him as he was dying and specifically told his teammates to let him die.

needless to say he no longer likes pelor and decided to change their deific loyalty. I'm a lot more chaotic good in real life anyways and I try to mostly base my characters off of me. that's the main reason I changed to paladin of freedom.

also when I created my character I wasn't aware the paladin of freedom variant existed

[Olo Demonsbane]

okay. I looked at bear totem barbarian and don't see why one level would affect anything. is there anything else that would be a good entrance to the class? dragon totem sounds a lot better for one level. is there anything else? right now I'm thinking paladin of freedom 5/hellreaver10. I thought all you could use as a mount was a horse. now I'm aware I could ride a great wyrm gold dragon:smallbiggrin:

You want the Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian from Complete Champion. One level gives you pounce and rage 1/day.

To get a draconic mount you can take the feat which is, suprisingly, name Draconic Mount, from Draconocmicon.

[quick_comment]

I second one of the earlier posts to multiclass into bard and take devoted performer. Then take snowflake wardancer, multiclass again into warblade and take song of the white ravens. Also pick up dragonfire inspiration while you are at it.

[Mystic Muse]

okay any other suggestions? and remember to tell me WHERE the classes and things are from.