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View Full Version : Help building a samurai-type character (who is a fighter) v3.5



realbombchu
2009-05-28, 02:10 AM
Hi, I would like to play a samurai. Like a lot of people, though, I don't like what Complete Warrior offers to that effect, and like some people, I don't like what Oriental Adventures offers, either. So long story short, I'm playing a fighter 18/something 2. Of course, I'm starting at level 1, but I have no talent when it comes to strategy, and I would like to know where I am taking this build.

What I want
Male human (Tai Chung, yes the name is Chinese, but I like it), fighter for the vast majority of his career (18 levels)
Lawful good
Uses a bastard sword (katana)
Starting ability scores Str 14, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 10 (he's shy and kind of dull personality-wise for a samurai)
Skills-max ranks in Climb, Intimidate, and Swim
An uber-charger build, even though I don't know how to make one, because he is the kind of guy that rushes fearlessly into battle

What I don't want
Two-Weapon Fighting with a wakizashi
Really heavy armor, I just don't like it

I also need recommendations for my last 2 levels, hopefully in a good prestige class. I'm not really asking for an optimized build here so much as an effective uber-charger build built to level 20 that is accurately based on the samurai concept, although without some of the courtly knowledge stuff.

Books I have
Any of the three core rulebooks (DMG, PHB, MM)
the Complete series (Complete Arcane, Divine, Warrior, and Adventurer only)
The Eberron Campaign Setting
Oriental Adventures
PHB 2 and DMG 2
Weapons of Legacy

Books I don't have and don't want used
Unearthed Arcana
Tome of Battle
Tome of Magic
Most others

If you have a question about a book, ask please. I also don't want flaws for extra feats. So to sum up, I want a level 18 fighter/level 2 something, who is an uber-charger and like a samurai, but doesn't include either of the samurai classes. I will be the primary melee combatant in my group, of course. If you need to know anything else, please ask. Thanks a lot!

Frosty
2009-05-28, 02:36 AM
Why not go Knight from PHB2? I feel that does the Samurai flavor fairly well. Change the code of conduct a little bit.

kamikasei
2009-05-28, 02:39 AM
What's a samurai?

You probably don't want a build that accurately models a historical samurai warrior and it's probably not possible to make one (you'd have to pick a particular time and place's samurai rather than trying to model some sort of generic everywarrior).

So what's the image in your head of what a samurai is that you want to realize here?

What don't you like about the existing classes?

Like Frosty I would suggest Knight... but mostly, a samurai is just a fighter. Mounted, medium armor, bow and spear, and maybe a homebrew feat or borrowings from OA for iaijutsu.

realbombchu
2009-05-28, 02:50 AM
What's a samurai?

You probably don't want a build that accurately models a historical samurai warrior and it's probably not possible to make one (you'd have to pick a particular time and place's samurai rather than trying to model some sort of generic everywarrior).

So what's the image in your head of what a samurai is that you want to realize here?

What don't you like about the existing classes?

Like Frosty I would suggest Knight... but mostly, a samurai is just a fighter. Mounted, medium armor, bow and spear, and maybe a homebrew feat or borrowings from OA for iaijutsu.

I realize the age of the samurai went on for a very long time, but I'm kind of thinking something as simple as Japanese katana fighter. I don't want firearms, even though at some points they were available, and actually, I don't want to be mounted, even though I realize that is inaccurate. I don't want to play a knight, although I agree with why you would suggest that, because it just doesn't match what I have in mind. It's hard to explain without going into my character's backstory, and I don't want to bore you with that.

So, long story short, he's a fighter who only uses a katana when he can, and does follow the code of bushido. He's from an asian-like country. He learned how to use a sword by teaching himself with his family's katana, a relic of his grandpa's time in the army as a conscript, but being commonborn, never learned courtly etiquette or riding or stuff like that.

What I want is kind of a samurai flavor, without it being perfectly samurai, if that makes any sense.

realbombchu
2009-05-28, 02:53 AM
It's also hard to explain why I don't like the two samurai classes. I guess I have trouble accepting that a fighter fights better than a samurai, as historical opinion is kind of the opposite. The two classes are better than fighters in some ways, but fall short in combat. Plus, I think with the right weapon and feat selection, a fighter could be the spitting image of a samurai.

Dagren
2009-05-28, 03:02 AM
So, long story short, he's a fighter who only uses a katana when he can, and does follow the code of bushido. He's from an asian-like country. He learned how to use a sword by teaching himself with his family's katana, a relic of his grandpa's time in the army as a conscript, but being commonborn, never learned courtly etiquette or riding or stuff like that.A conscript with a katana? I don't know a huge amount about feudal japan, but that just sounds wrong.

BooNL
2009-05-28, 03:03 AM
Depending on how fine you take the line between samurai and ninja you could also take a couple of levels in swashbuckler. That will give you some movement and social skills as well as int mod to damage.

A knight also sounds like a fine alternative, only the riding skills don't fit in my opinion.

realbombchu
2009-05-28, 03:20 AM
A conscript with a katana? I don't know a huge amount about feudal japan, but that just sounds wrong.

You're right, that part is fantasy. But so is the game we play. I'll be the first to admit that I'm taking some artistic liberties here, and I might drop the idea of his family having a sword in favor of some kind of stick or wooden sword that he practiced with, but it's not really important, I was just using it to explain how a common young man knows a little swordplay.

In any case, I don't want to play a knight. I recognize that it is a good samurai-style idea, but it's not for me. So if someone has an idea of what feats I should choose to make my fighter 18 character a good (on foot) charger who uses a katana, I'd really love to hear it.

Saintheart
2009-05-28, 03:26 AM
If it's ubercharging you're looking for, a decent combination of feats is as follows--

Power Attack (PHB)
Improved Sunder (PHB; prereq for Combat Brute)
Improved Bull Rush (PHB; prereq for Shock Trooper)
Leap Attack (Complete Adventurer)
Shock Trooper (Complete Warrior)
Combat Brute (Complete Warrior)

Putting these together multiplies your Power Attack multiplier to devastating levels, although it does some serious damage to your AC: Heedless Charge, which is one of the tactical feats from Shock Trooper, allows you to penalise your AC rather than your attack bonus on Power Attack. Leap Attack adds +100% Power Attack damage. Combat Brute lets you do funky kinds of things with sunders and bullrushes, and the Momentum Swing tactical feat from it also lets you build on a successful Power Attack in a previous round.

That gives you your main damage-dealing mechanic under an ubercharger model. Even so, I should warn you doing this does tend to turn you into a glass cannon. Inflicting massive damage from Power Attack under this model basically means nerfing your AC to such a point a child could throw a rock at you and have a decent chance of hitting you. Be prepared to lose lots of hitpoints under this model.

Combat Expertise (PHB) is something to look at if you're going to forego heavy armor a lot. Which is a shame, since charging and doing damage in light armor is really more the province of the barbarian than the dedicated tanking fighter. Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialisation, Improved Critical, and Greater Weapon Specialisation are all must-haves if your character's going to have a long, intimate relationship with his katana (in point of fact, you'll probably need Exotic Weapon Proficiency, since IIRC the fighter doesn't get that automatically.)

Spirited Charge, if you're prepared to go as a mounted character, also pumps up the damage rolls a bit, too.

Lastly: I don't know what, if any, changes were made to Oriental Adventures in 3.5, but take another very careful read through the Iaijutsu skill. It's a lot more powerful than it looks. It basically allows you to add d6s of damage to your first strike in combat for nothing more than skill points. AFAIK it was considered so broken they nerfed it a bit in 3.5, but I'm not sure.

You may want to try and define your character concept a little better in terms of the game rules. Are you looking to be a Dex-based sort of fighter with a bastard sword? If so, you're really sort of doing yourself a disservice since you're trying to go Zorro with a heavy weapon in one hand. Doesn't work in real life, and D&D also doesn't like it, either. Are you looking to be a solid, Str-based fighter? If so, I'd really reconsider your dislike of heavy armor, because your Dex is going to be fairly weak and heavy armor is generally there to shore up the Str-based fighter's traditional lack of dexterity.

Fact is, for fighter-types D&D seems to penalise generalists and reward specialisation; indeed that's part of the reason multi-ability-dependency (MAD) seems to be around. Effective characters (IMHHO) seem to be the ones that learn to build towards a specialty, whether it's Dex-based Zorro tactics, raw dwarven defensiveness, charging madness, or archery.

Thoughts, anyone?

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-05-28, 03:30 AM
You should definitely consider a level of Exotic Weapon Master as early as possible. Take EWP: Bastard Sword, and get Uncanny Blow to get double your Str bonus to damage when wielding it two-handed instead of just one and a half. Normally this gets you 2-3 extra points of damage per hit, but your ability scores are spread extremely thin.

25 pointbuy is really difficult to excel with when you don't take any dump stats. Keep in mind that a Human Fighter always gets two skill points/level, even with an Int score 6 or lower. I'd probably go Str 15, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 11, max out Intimidate and split your remaining skill points between Climb an Swim. Put your level-ups toward Strength, eventually get Breastplate or Mithral Full Plate with Gloves of Dex +6 and you won't need anything higher than a 10 there.

If possible, reflavor the Zhentarim Soldier (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) substitution levels to suit your clan, it helps out extremely well with Fighter's dead levels and the Swift Demoralization ability is just amazing. If you can't use that, visit the Otyugh Hole and endure its trials to get Skill Focus: Intimidate without having to spend a feat on it, and maybe even visit a second time to get Iron Will (or get that your first visit if you get to use Zhentarim Soldier). Definitely get the Never Outnumbered skill trick in Complete Scoundrel, once per encounter when you make an Intimidate check to demoralize an opponent you can have it affect every opponent within ten feet of your target. You should also consider working toward a Charisma 15 (possibly via a Cloak of Charisma) to qualify for Imperious Command from Drow of the Underdark, and/or Frightful Presence in the Draconomicon, both require Cha 15 and Intimidate 8 ranks. Note that those are all extremely good tricks, but tricks like that are what it takes for such a one-sided character to remain viable in this game.

I'd go Fighter 6/ Exotic Weapon Master 1/ Fighter +6/ Exotic Weapon Master +1 /Fighter +6, always keep Intimidate at max ranks and spend your remaining skill points to first get Never Outnumbered, then get two cross-class ranks in Spellcraft, and then split them between Climb and Swim. Here's what I'd do for feats and other abilities at each level:
1. Power Attack, Combat Focus, Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Katana
2. Weapon Focus: Katana
3. Combat Stability, Skill Focus: Intimidate (Zhentarim Soldier)
4. Weapon Specialization: Katana
5. Extended Intimidation (Zhentarim Soldier, optional)
6. Blind-Fight, Mage Slayer
7. Uncanny Blow (Exotic Weapon Master)
9. Melee Weapon Mastery: Slashing, Combat Vigor
10. Swift Demoralization (Zhentarim Soldier)
11. Greater Weapon Focus: Katana
12. Combat Awareness
13. Greater Weapon Specialization: Katana
14. Show Off (Exotic Weapon Master)
15. Imperious Command if possible
16. Slashing Flurry
18. Combat Reflexes, Defensive Sweep
20. Weapon Supremacy: Katana

The Combat Form feats from PHB2, the Intimidate tricks, and Melee Weapon Mastery/Supremacy from PHB2 will go a long way toward keeping this character viable in the mid to high levels. I'd focus your wealth toward first getting a +1 weapon and some decent armor such as +1 Breastplate or Mithral Full Plate, then focus on items that increase your Strength, Dex, and Charisma scores. You can take Imperious Command earlier if you can qualify for it sooner, but I'd get a +4 Charisma item after you already have a +4 to both Strength and Dex.

Edit: Initially I thought you said you didn't want an ubercharger, but in that case you'll need to include Leap Attack from Complete Adventurer, which more or less requires that you max out your Jump ranks. Shock Trooper from Complete Warrior is also good to have, but you could instead/also take Suel Arcanamach for at least two levels and use the spell Wraithstrike, Cha score permitting. Another option would be to switch to Psychic Warrior and use Psionic Lion's Charge with Spirited Charge on a mount to full-attack. A Fighter 2/ Paladin+ with the Charging Smite variant from PHB2 and Leap Attack can also make a decent charger.

Dagren
2009-05-28, 03:34 AM
You're right, that part is fantasy. But so is the game we play. I'll be the first to admit that I'm taking some artistic liberties here, and I might drop the idea of his family having a sword in favor of some kind of stick or wooden sword that he practiced with, but it's not really important, I was just using it to explain how a common young man knows a little swordplay.Ah, that's cool. It just really seemed weird that a conscript would have such a large amount of valuable steel, but as Miko pointed out, "What is this 'Japan' you speak of?"

As for needing exotic proficiency and going one handed, remember a bastard sword can be used two-handed as a martial weapon, and although one could easily argue that a greatsword would be better in that case, it's still possible.

Saintheart
2009-05-28, 03:37 AM
Zhentarim Soldier and Drow of the Underdark are Forgotten Realms items, obviously; if you exclude them from the equation, it ... affects the above example. :smallsmile:

EDIT: Having said all of that, I'm not sure if you don't have Tome of Battle or really don't want to use it, but seriously: if you don't have it, look into it. Don't want to get into debates over what the best book is, but honestly, Swordsage, Crusader, and Warblade are (IMHHO) some of the best "out of the box" fighter-y classes that WoTC came up with for 3.5.

mistformsquirrl
2009-05-28, 03:45 AM
Depending on how fine you take the line between samurai and ninja you could also take a couple of levels in swashbuckler. That will give you some movement and social skills as well as int mod to damage.

A knight also sounds like a fine alternative, only the riding skills don't fit in my opinion.

Actually the samurai were essentially just Knights in a different culture. Being able to ride and fight from horseback was an incredibly important skill; just as it was for European knights.

As for classes:
I'm going to go with the typical image of a samurai, rather than trying to cover the myriad historical weapons and styles. (It'd drive you as batty as trying to cover all the European styles in a single western-style fighter.)

First up; ask your DM if you can take the Iaijutsu focus skill from Oriental Adventures. Perhaps even trade a feat for it. There's something to be said about being able to draw your blade, cut an opponent in half, and resheathe it.

Likewise you're going to need Quick Draw to do the above.

You can probably skip Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Katana) however, unless you have interest in using it one handed in some circumstances.

Feats like Combat Expertise, Spring Attack, Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, and tactical feats... these are all things I'd look at.

Basically, aim for feats that give you options in combat. You want to always have *something* you can do to the opponent to put them at a disadvantage.

That's my philosophy anyway.

Knight isn't bad either, though you'll want to work with your DM reflavoring the code a bit if you got that route. (You'll probably also want to see about altering the Shield Block ability to something else. Possibly exchange that for Iaijutsu even)

Again, just my ideas; there are a whole lot of ways to make a Samurai in D&D, and I've not found any that are actually bad.

The best advice I can probably give is to remember that it's just like making any other fighter in the end; the real difference comes out in the fluff; how your character presents themself to others and the like. Even that can vary drastically.

derfenrirwolv
2009-05-28, 04:04 AM
Uber charger is someone that takes

Mounted combat- lets you negate one hit per round by making your ride check the mounts armor class after a hit has been scored.

Spirited charge Deal X2 damage when charging, or X3 damage with a lance (Yari in your case)

And ride by attack (sometimes) The usefulness of this depends on how strict your dm is with the charging action. Normally continuing the strait line in a charge just means you wind up moving at your opponent (and then either have your mount kick or trample them) It is possible to use it as spring attack depending on how you read the charging rules.

Trample

The advantage of the build is that you can do absolutely insane damage when you charge. You can also wield a reach weapon and a shield at the same time, which makes you a good overall tank. (I don't know if samurai used shields on horseback, if not, you're doing extra damage on the attacks)

The disadvantages of the build is keeping your mount 1) alive and 2) in the fight. At 5th level you and your mount are going to catch a lightning bolt in the face and its going to die. You're now stuck with most of your feats being absolutely worthless, and you can't use your lance (yari) until you ditch the shield.

Theres a few ways to overcome this.

1) Play a paladin. The warhorse is tough, and it gets tougher to scale with you. It does also fit the idea of a samurai. I know you said you wanted a fighter, but a fighter is pretty incompatable with a charging build after level 5 or so.

Remember that as the mount gains hit dice, it gains feats. Improved toughness for example.

2) If you have a druid in the party, and you're REALY nice to them, they can serve as your mount. If they have natural spell they effectively don't loose anything by being shape shifted in combat. To spare them the indignity of wearing a saddle (and time of getting it on) you can get a -5 penalty to your ride check. You can also negate a hit to him every round.

They could also take a horse as their animal companion and let you borrow it. DONT get a scratch on it though


3) Leadership Use it to get a monster or druid to serve as your mount

4) Handle animal. Its a class skill for fighters. Use those two semesters of goat herding and the next time you come across a hippogryph or griffin egg raise it yourself. Failing this, pay someone to do it for you.

The second problem with a mount is getting it TO the fight. This may be less of a problem in an oriental (and non dungeon) setting but it depends on your dm. Its a large creature, and while it CAN squeeze into a 5/5 space to walk through its not going to be happy. It may also have trouble climbing, going across rope bridges, and sneaking into the tavern the bad guys are using as a base of operations.

Be a pally.. the pokeball is the ultimate in portability.

Baleful polymorph on the mount to turn it into something portable, then dispel magic it for the fight.

Put ranks in climb and have block and tackle ready


Level

1 Mounted combat (1st) Spirited charge (fighter) Combat Reflexes (human)
2 Trample (fighter)
3 Weapon focus (lance (yari) ) (3rd)
4 Weapon specialization lance (yari) (fighter)
5
6 Leadership (6th) Power attack (F6) this is devastating when you charge.
7
8 Cleave- You are charging for all of your cleave attacks, essentially letting you shishkabob everything within reach of your lance.

9 Iron will (all those tea ceremonies)

10 -The tactical feat from complete warrior (books in the car, sorry)
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20

Nerd-o-rama
2009-05-28, 04:19 AM
A very good build.

I was typing out my own suggestions before I noticed that Biffoniacus had posted pretty much exactly what I had in mind or more. I do definitely recommend the "ubercharging" Leap Attack and Shock Trooper feats for your "samurai" ("unmounted katana duelist" would be a more accurate description, really, or perhaps "TV Samurai"). Not only are they very very good, but they also represent the school of iaijutsu as well as anything else - closing with your opponent and killing him in one smooth, violent motion, albeit with the risk of leaving yourself open to a counterattack or other opponents. Of course, real iaijutsu doesn't call for leaping ten feet through the air, but I don't think we're concerned with historical accuracy here.

Fishy
2009-05-28, 04:54 AM
I was about to say a bunch of stuff about using Complete Scoundrel skill tricks to simulate Iajutsu, and then I read the list again.

But there are a bunch of skill tricks in Complete Scoundrel that might simulate Iajutsu.

Talic
2009-05-28, 05:07 AM
Well, the archetype of the samurai was a heavily armored fighter, who operated much like a knight (indeed, they were feudal Japan's knighthood).

If you're going for a more lightly armored fighter, perhaps a noble ninja. Come from the ranks of peasantry, use stealth, and sudden strikes. The ethos and noble purpose can be the same, and you'd still come out well.

Gaiyamato
2009-05-28, 05:41 AM
I think a lot of great options have been covered already.

One way could be to take a Shou disciple from Unapproachable East. It simulates the Samurai's unarmed as well as armed fighting abilities. Also at Shou Disciple level 5 you can flurry of blows with any melee weapon (Your Katana). It gives you two more bonus feats, slightly making up for the three feats you had to use to get into it.
You also gain a lot of the monk's hand to hand abilities in combat as well.
In fact the Shou region fits very well (even givnig a bonus masterwork katana. lol.) if your DM uses regional feats and templates.

A single level of knight would add to the whole thing as well.

You could take the Master Samurai Class for the first 4 levels only and perhaps see if your DM would let you use your abilities and feats from the Shou Disciple class to replace the mounted combat requirements.

I would also see if your DM would let your knight, master samurai and fighter levels stack for qualifying for fighter feats as it makes more sense. :P

So Fighter 10/Knight 1/Shou disciple 5/Master Samurai 4.

I think that would work better to fit your theme. But if your going to stick to just 2 levels of a prestige class then mayeb your better going with one of the suggestiosn above.

---------------------------------

For your armor take a set of Masterwork Wood armor and apply the darkwood special material template.
You get this for your armor:

Type: Samurai Wooden Lacquered Armor
AC Bonus: +3
Max Dex: +4
Armor Check: -0
Arcane Spell Failure: 15%
Wieght: 7.5lb
Cost: 365gp

To truly represent the samurai paint it to look rather scary and add fearsome to it when you get it enchanted.

If you can get the cash I'd also look into a masterwork Adamantine sword just so you can cut through things a little easier. :)

elliott20
2009-05-28, 06:01 AM
if TOB is an option, warblade?

Dixieboy
2009-05-28, 09:00 AM
A conscript with a katana? I don't know a huge amount about feudal japan, but that just sounds wrong.

Maybe an Ancestral weapon?
Doesn't sound that wrong to me.

Gorbash
2009-05-28, 09:04 AM
Drow of the Underdark are Forgotten Realms items

It's not. It's a general book about the drow, much the same as Races of ______ . Underark, on the other hand, is a Faerun specific book, since it deals both with drow and the Faerun's Underdark.

elliott20
2009-05-28, 10:20 AM
okay, my previous post was probably not very helpful so let me elaborate a bit.

The fighting classes generally don't get too much that makes them worthwhile after 6th level. In the case of the a fighter, you generally start seeing a lack of things to take after 6th. In the case of OA samurai, it's basically a weaker fighter but you get a weapon that you can enchant. This kind of makes the OA samurai a good dip class just to get the ancestral daisho. Though, that hardly fits into your fluff. since ancestral daishos are supposedly treasured clan weapons, it makes little to no sense for a peasant to have it. CW samurai is just a complete joke.

Knight is a good class to take. It might not fit your concept well though.

Uber charger... ehh... I know that it is a deadly build, but I don't find uber chargers any fun to play personally. (Though, if you combine it with iaijutsu and what not, it makes for some pretty sick looking imagery)

Hence, why I suggested a warblade. More options, far more powerful than the other fighting classes, and if fluffed right can still come across as a no-nonsense warrior who is all skill and no flash.

Hell, you can even do an imagery of the iaijutsu by just having the quick draw feat, and use a good strike with it.

Telonius
2009-05-28, 11:22 AM
Well, if you take OA Samurai, Quick Draw, max out Iajutsu focus and cross-class Sleight of Hand, then take the Hidden Blade skill trick from Complete Scoundrel, you could potentially add bonus damage to charge attacks (and any other time you conceal your weapon). Sounds like something a Scorpion Samurai might be very interested in. Also gives that "cut you in two before you were even aware of it" flavor.

Talya
2009-05-28, 02:15 PM
Seconded for two levels of OA Samurai. It's an awesome 2 level dip, because the ancestral daisho ability is based on CHARACTER level, not class level. Also, take those two levels first, as you'll get more skill points. It's good for your will save too.

realbombchu
2009-05-28, 03:28 PM
Sorry I haven't replied in so many posts, it was the middle of the night here last time I posted, and I needed some sleep. I promise I wasn't ignoring any of your comments. I was unaware that uber-charger meant being mounted, I thought it was an on-foot build, because someone called it a fighter build, and fighters aren't the best mounted warriors out there. I guess that's what I get for assuming. I don't really want to be mounted, though, like I think I said earlier.

I'm really glad to get all this help. Sadly, I don't have Tome of Battle. I didn't take it very seriously (for some reason) when it came out, and I'm kind of regretting that after what I've heard lately, so I might go get it.

I see some comments that I'm not being very accurate. That's true, I'm not. I actually have some books on the Samurai and their sword methods, but I'll admit that I'm more loyal to my character concept than to history. My "samurai" is to a real samurai what the "Indians" of Peter Pan were to the Native Americans. In other words, a childish fantasy with only the loosest connection (in this case, the name, weapon, and reputation) to the real thing.

I have enough feat suggestions that I think I can throw something together that I'll enjoy playing. Thanks everyone! Once it's done, I'll show you all how it looks, if you want. Like I said, I have no gift for thinking out a strategy, but I'm also glad I won't be really weighing my party down. I've decided to use the Land of Honor affiliation from the PHB 2, with my DMs pending permission. I'm also interested in the legacy weapons, but don't know a lot about them. Are they considered good? Just your opinion is fine.

About my choice of armor, that's only my taste. I realize samurai, and fighters in general, wore the heaviest armor around, but to me, well, it doesn't sound like a lot of fun. Plus, I did the math, and I know I might be missing something besides cost, but a fighter in +5 full plate with any dexterity score has the same AC (by my figuring) as a fighter with a Dexterity score of 14, +5 mithral shirt, and gloves of Dexterity +6. I could be wrong though, I was really tired when I worked that out last night.

Anyway, thanks again for the help so far, this is great!

Draz74
2009-05-28, 04:18 PM
Plus, I did the math, and I know I might be missing something besides cost, but a fighter in +5 full plate with any dexterity score has the same AC (by my figuring) as a fighter with a Dexterity score of 14, +5 mithral shirt, and gloves of Dexterity +6. I could be wrong though, I was really tired when I worked that out last night.

Ah, but full plate can be mithral, too. Plus, mithral full plate is only "medium armor" in terms of how much of a burden your character will feel like he is wearing.

Ubercharger does indeed normally refer to the non-mounted version, the Shock Trooper/Leap Attacker type. People have already spelled out the basics of how such a build works; the only thing I would add is, if you can use material from Dungeonscape, it's totally worth sacrificing two feats to have the Dungeoncrasher option.

Geddoe
2009-05-28, 04:33 PM
It's also hard to explain why I don't like the two samurai classes. I guess I have trouble accepting that a fighter fights better than a samurai, as historical opinion is kind of the opposite. The two classes are better than fighters in some ways, but fall short in combat. Plus, I think with the right weapon and feat selection, a fighter could be the spitting image of a samurai.

Fighters aren't really better at fighting, if you take the Rokugan CS sourcebook. Some of the feats they add to the Samurai are very good, and only a Samurai(the base class) may get them as bonus feats.

Anyway, my recommendation, if you just want to use a katana, is to ask if you can use the kenshi(called kensai, but makes more sense as kenshi) fighter variant located in Dragon 310. It gives up the first level fighter feat to get a bonus to attack and damage with a chosen weapon type every 5 levels, starting at level 0(so 1, 5, 10, etc). They also get a slightly diversified skill list. The bonus feats are the same as a fighter(all feats should be allowed, but aren't listed because it doesn't assume you have all the books), but the weapon specific ones may only be chosen with your selected weapon.

AslanCross
2009-05-28, 07:49 PM
<What he said>

This +1.

OP, since you ruled out Tome of Battle, this is pretty much the only build I can recommend.

Fishy
2009-05-28, 08:04 PM
Fortunately, Warblades (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060802a&page=2) really do grow on trees. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a)

Berserk Monk
2009-05-28, 08:06 PM
Can't be of much help. Only thing I know about samurais is that they dual wield swords (two weapon fighting) and use bows (rapid archery). Just don't take that samurai class in complete warrior.