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View Full Version : Advice for a first level wizard please



Dagren
2009-05-28, 02:34 AM
A group of friends and I are going to try starting ourselves a 3rd ed gaming group soon, and we're going to be starting from the beginning. I'd like to play a wizard, but while there are some fine guides out there on how to effectively play a high level wizard, I couldn't find anything to help me get there in the first place. I'm not looking for anything really optimised, just a few pieces of advice on how not to get killed before I reach level 5 with my 2 spells per day. Thanks. (Sorry if this is in the wrong place but I couldn't think where else to put it)

Dode
2009-05-28, 02:45 AM
um, buy a horse and let the horse do the fighting

kamikasei
2009-05-28, 02:52 AM
Are you rolling or point-buying? What books do you have available? Any houserules we should know about? Do you have preferences for race?

The basic advice is to keep Int high for bonus spells and DCs, use your slots on things like Sleep and Colour Spray and get wands of more repeatable spells as soon as possible, and plan ahead.

Deepblue706
2009-05-28, 02:52 AM
-Don't be afraid to be a coward (stay out of melee).
-Keep your head down (use cover to avoid missile attacks where you can).
-Always do your homework (scribe scrolls during downtime, so you don't become useless when you don't have any more spells/day)
-Never go anywhere without your weasel (seriously, +2 Reflex saves...also familiars can scout)
-And always remember...you only need to run faster than the slowest teammate (When your chips are down, trip the gnome).

Twilight Jack
2009-05-28, 03:11 AM
Let's assume that you're playing a human wizard (other races can pay dividends but human is probably best if you're starting at 1st level). I'm going to stick with Core in order to ensure that my advice is pertinent.

First things first, check with the DM to see exactly how Core we're sticking (I'm kind of making a liar of myself, ain't I?). If the Player's Handbook II is allowed, then play a Conjuration specialist and trade your familiar for Abrupt Jaunt. If he allows it, then go there immediately. Otherwise, take a familiar that shores up your character's primary weakness as you see it (it's hard to offer advice on this one, although I think toad is great at 1st level and rat is pretty good if you forsee surviving long). Now we're off to the races.

Step 1: Assign your ability scores. Highest score goes to Intelligence. Obviously. Second highest score goes to Constitution. You'll need the hit points. Your next highest scores should go towards Dexterity and Wisdom. Which one gets precedence is largely a judgement call. Strength and Charisma are your dump stats.

Step 2: Specialize. There are only two schools worth specializing in: Conjuration and Transmutation. Divination gets an honorable mention if you can't stomach prohibiting two schools. Otherwise Conjuration is your baby. Specialize in it and prohibit Enchantment and Evocation. Now you have at least 3 first level spells every day.

Step 3: Select your feats. If you're human and a Conjuration specialist, allow me to suggest Spell Focus: Conjuration and Improved Initiative. If you're outside Core, replace Improved Initiative with Cloudy Conjuration.

Step 4: Choose your spells. If you're the only wizard in the party I'd recommend spells that allow the other characters to look really cool. As often as is practical, buff them and allow them to do the actual damage to the enemy. This will buy you good will for later.

Step 5: ???

Step 6: Profit.

TSED
2009-05-28, 03:13 AM
Have four or five back up wizard character sheets.

Doc Roc
2009-05-28, 03:17 AM
Okay, let's talk a little about spell selection. Life is rough. Magic missile is over-rated. You want to spend your early life focusing on what's called battle-field control. Treantmonk on those "other" forums has a great guide (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=956548) on this topic, one that in this case I prefer to the ever excellent Being Batman. Suffice to say that grease, web, entangle and glitterdust are top picks.

BooNL
2009-05-28, 03:41 AM
I'm going to bring some counterbalance here and say: don't try to build a "build", don't - under any circumstances - try to create a Batman.

Before you go into spell selection and all that mechanical jazz, what do you want your wizard to do? Do you want him to fling fireballs from afar, protect yourself and others, summon magical creatures, etc.

After that, select your specialization, if you want one. Don't listen to all these nay-sayers, every spec is good. You just have to make it work.

Then start looking at spells, if you're core only it's easy. If not, pick up the Spell Compendium for a handy overview (though I recommend you stay core as much as possible, at least for your first character).

Some handy spells at lower levels include Mage Armor, Grease, Sleep and the Summon Monster line.

Killer Angel
2009-05-28, 04:00 AM
I'm going to bring some counterbalance here and say: don't try to build a "build", don't - under any circumstances - try to create a Batman.


I'm not sure i've understood your point... why no build?
Every character is a "build". Every player tries to develop his pc in a coherent way, selecting appropriate combos (from a good combination of fighter's feats, to the spell selection of a specialized wiz.) in a RP background.
Some players are experts, some are good, some don't care too much but no one picks random abilities.

The next step is: when you have an idea, you can try to implement the pc's mechanic, accepting suggestions from more expert players (until these suggestions, fit your original idea).

What you should never do, is to take a "pre-made build" from some optimizer... in that case, it's not a your idea (so you're going to have no feeling with the character) and probably you'll be no able to play that build properly.
But it's always possible to pick a "build" (the Batman wizard), destructuring said build and having your own character: you take only the general idea and some basic suggestion, than you work around it by yourself... even if in the end your character will not be "optimized".

mostlyharmful
2009-05-28, 04:02 AM
level up. Fast.

I know it sounds like a dumb comment but it's actual advice, take the quests the dm hands out and then use your Int score not your Str, find ways around, under or past obstacles that doesn't involve combat, talk your team into using the rogues social skills, use charm and invis and suggestion as you go up to reduce the times you have to cower in cover to the absolute minimum. By the time you hit mid level you can take on what you like and to a certain extent you can start acting dumber and flashier but at low levels the smart, sneaky, devious and underhanded is your friend.

above all else be very aware of what is sacrificable (your mount, your hireling, even your familiar) and what isn't (your big roadblock mates, your book). If it looks like it's a choice between sacrificing your self or the fun NPC who helped you.,,..... just make sure the cops aren't looking.

kamikasei
2009-05-28, 04:09 AM
don't - under any circumstances - try to create a Batman.

Why, may I ask? Are you perhaps misunderstanding the term? Batman is not necessarily a game-breaker.

BooNL
2009-05-28, 04:14 AM
Why, may I ask? Are you perhaps misunderstanding the term? Batman is not necessarily a game-breaker.

True, if you follow the philosophy of support and disable spells, creating a batman-esque character isn't bad. My point was that such a character can outshine most other builds without even trying.

Furthermore, I don't believe in following strict guides and taking the optimized aproach. I build my characters around a background or character concept, "the ultimate wizard" takes a backseat for me.

mostlyharmful
2009-05-28, 04:16 AM
Plus the 'Batman' build is composed of two things - the mentality of don't be a glory hogging ass and pick decent spells. There's no build involved beyound being a Wizard caster.

It's hard as hell to be a convincing Batman before level 7 anyway so just take a few Battlefield control and a few good team buffs and try not to get in the firing line.

Dagren
2009-05-28, 04:22 AM
I know it sounds like a dumb comment but it's actual advice, take the quests the dm hands out and then use your Int score not your Str, find ways around, under or past obstacles that doesn't involve combat, talk your team into using the rogues social skills, use charm and invis and suggestion as you go up to reduce the times you have to cower in cover to the absolute minimum. By the time you hit mid level you can take on what you like and to a certain extent you can start acting dumber and flashier but at low levels the smart, sneaky, devious and underhanded is your friend.Cool. That was kind of my character concept anyway, his backstory is that he's a wizard's school graduate who has taken up thievery instead on the traditional wizardry route. So yeah, he's going to be pretty subtle. Of course, I'm sure he'll learn all the combat spells once he becomes an adventurer and gains power, but that will work great with his character for the first few levels. I may even give him ranks in bluff himself, high Int means a few spare skill points floating around. (That would make Str rather than Cha his main dump stat, I guess, if I choose to go that way) Still, subtle sneaky wizard notwithstanding, I doubt I'll be going arcane trickster, I don't think 2 spell levels is worth it.

And thanks everyone else for their advice too, it'll give me plenty to think about. I have to say though, I don't think I'll be going the specialist route. Banning spell schools is rather unpalatable to me, even for extra slots.

BooNL
2009-05-28, 04:24 AM
Actually, a Batman is what I call a glory hogging bastard. The optimized wizard, the destructor of other classes, the scion of anything but tucker's kobolds, etc etc.

Playing a wizard with a good spell selection and acting on his Int score is not Batmanning. It's just being a good player.

Seriously though, it isn't that hard to survive the first couple of levels. Just have some indirect and support spells, don't load up on the magic missiles and you're practically there. Just make sure you have fun and your crunch compliments your fluff, that's all.

kamikasei
2009-05-28, 04:28 AM
Actually, a Batman is what I call a glory hogging bastard. The optimized wizard, the destructor of other classes, the scion of anything but tucker's kobolds, etc etc.

Playing a wizard with a good spell selection and acting on his Int score is not Batmanning. It's just being a good player.

This is not what the "Being Batman" guide described, just the pejorative meaning the term has acquired being thrown around by detractors.

An optimized Batman boosts his teammates, hinders his enemies, and uses the right tool for the right task to achieve the greatest effect in an encounter with minimal spell expenditure. Nothing glory-hogging about that. If a competent Batman is shutting down an encounter with glitterdust and the other characters are severely unoptimized they may feel marginalized but if they're able to fill their roles adequately they won't feel their toes are being stepped on.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-05-28, 04:33 AM
Color Spray until you get 2nd level spells, then use a mix of Color Spray, Glitterdust, and Web. When you get 3rd level spells get Ray of Stupidity and Shrink Item, and be creative. Check the Batman Wizard Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104002) for advice for all levels, but that was basically all you really need to know to succeed.

I'd probably go Grey Elf or Gnome for your race, depending on where you want to go with the character. Elf races get some decent weapon proficiencies such as bows, Grey Elf in particular gets +2 Int. Gnome gets +2 Con, small size bonuses, and can take Shadowcraft Mage if that's what you're into. If you choose to specialize in a school of magic, your prohibited schools should be Evocation and either Enchantment or Necromancy, don't question it and you won't be kicking yourself later.

Get at least one rank in each of the ten knowledge skills (there are not more than ten knowledge skills in 3.5). Make a cheat sheet that lists each creature type (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm) and what knowledge skill you roll a check for to identify it. Also make a note of (FSW) next to each one, with a capital letter designating a good base save and a lowercase letter for a poor base save. It doesn't take any action at all to make a Knowledge check to see if you recognize or can identify a creature, so at the start of each encounter you say, "I'll make a Knowledge check to identify what it is, what's its creature type?" Then you look at both which Knowledge check to roll, and what its poor saving throws are. Regardless of whether or not you make the check, you can now use a save-or-lose spell that attacks that poor save. If it's an animal you always just hit it with Ray of Stupidity and win, especially for dire animals which have no poor save, but otherwise you'll soon learn what spells are good and what spells you can just forget about ever preparing again.

Killer Angel
2009-05-28, 04:37 AM
Actually, a Batman is what I call a glory hogging bastard. The optimized wizard, the destructor of other classes, the scion of anything but tucker's kobolds, etc etc.


No: the REAL batman wiz, does't win the encounters alone by himself, he creates the conditions in which the rest of the party smashes the enemies.
He controls the battlefield and boosts his teammates, that do the dirty work.
If there's need, he will have also a trick or two (scrolls) to handle strange situations.

The real batman, is ALSO a good player.

BooNL
2009-05-28, 04:37 AM
This is not what the "Being Batman" guide described, just the pejorative meaning the term has acquired being thrown around by detractors.

An optimized Batman boosts his teammates, hinders his enemies, and uses the right tool for the right task to achieve the greatest effect in an encounter with minimal spell expenditure. Nothing glory-hogging about that. If a competent Batman is shutting down an encounter with glitterdust and the other characters are severely unoptimized they may feel marginalized but if they're able to fill their roles adequately they won't feel their toes are being stepped on.

I know I'm using the term wrong and in a prejudice manner, I guess I'm just bitter. I'm usually the stubborn TWF ranger with a focus on animal companions or whatever :smallsmile:.

Still, my point stands. You don't have to overoptimize to have fun.

Talic
2009-05-28, 04:44 AM
My Favorites:

If you have Complete Arcane, I like Metamagic School Focus. Whether you're buffing with Transmutation, or creating meat walls with conjuration, Being able to have 3 free extend spells a day is useful. (Applies to human wizards only)

Second. I can't tell you how much I advise against a Color Spray focus.

In a party environment, Grease is about 100x better. Things fall down. Almost everything in the Monster Manual goes flat footed.

Color Spray is a good "Oh Crap" spell. But ideally? Don't get within 15 feet of an enemy.

For tactics on staying alive, Complete Mage has an Abrupt Jaunt ability for wizards which is good, and can save your bacon. Mage Armor can keep you up long enough to see tomorrow.

Don't focus on attack roll spells, but don't get Magic Missile either. Frankly, as level 1 spells go, it sucks. Level 2-3? Possibly, as you start seeing a chance to fight things that are incorporeal, which is where force damage shines.

Obscuring mist is a good getaway spell, but your rogue won't like you too much for giving his targets concealment.

Summon monster 1 might take a while to cast, but it's worth it. The payoff can be a flanker, an attacker, and, if you choose to extend it, it'll last more than a round right away.

Tempest Fennac
2009-05-28, 04:46 AM
Killer, Boo was just refering to copying builds which may not do what Dagren wants the character to do rather then telling him not to have a build at all.

ghost_warlock
2009-05-28, 05:23 AM
Dagren, if your DM is allowing PHBII, and you want to play a thiefy kind of wizard, you may find the beguiler to your liking. With the beguiler, if you don't have a rogue in the party you can take over trap-duty. If you already have a rogue, be a friend and use the Aid Another action to give the rogue the bonus to Disable, that way you're not showboating how vastly superior you are. :smallwink:

Zeta Kai
2009-05-28, 06:53 AM
Well, a lot of folks have already commented on the basics (stay out of melee, hold onto your book at all costs), so I'll talk about good spells for a low-level caster. Assuming that you have all the cantrips that you need, let's talk about 1st-level spells that should be in your book.

Even at first level, not all spells are created equal. Some are going to be way more useful than others, & starting out, you're only going to have 3 + Int 1st level spells in your book. Since every other spell requires the kindness of your DM to acquire, you'll need to choose carefully to ensure that you don't end up with garbage filling your book. Most people on CharOp boards make the elementary mistake of assuming that a wizard can get any spell that they want; this is a harmful fallacy. The DM decides what spells exist in his world, & which ones you can get your hands on, & he can be very stingy sometimes. You are entitled to just 2 new spells per level, & which two is only partially your call, so your starting book (which tends to receive less scrutiny) is very important.

With all this in mind, I'd make sure that any spell that you choose is one that you can't live without. Spells that deal direct damage (magic missile or shocking grasp) are good for low-level offense, but defense (mage armor or shield), crowd control (grease or ray of enfeeblement), & denial-of-action spells (blindness/deafness or sleep) are general much more effective. Utility spells (like enlarge person, feather fall, & true strike) are often vital, as well, but tend to be situational. A lot of this picking & choosing is going to be up to your personal preference, but as far as 1st-level spells are concerned, I wouldn't even bother with anything less than the ones mentioned above (even though one of my favorites is scorching ray, for flavor reasons).

Talic
2009-05-28, 07:13 AM
+1 on Zeta Kai.

Enlarge Person is good for the big beefy in your group, incidentally.
Ray of Enfeeblement is solid gold.

Tengu_temp
2009-05-28, 07:19 AM
I second the idea of making scrolls in your free time. Also, the best friend of a first level wizard is a light crossbow - don't go into melee during combat, but don't just stand there and watch when you're not casting, shoot at enemies instead!

kamikasei
2009-05-28, 07:22 AM
Reserve feats (Complete Mage) are also good ways to get sustained damage output with more wizardly feel than a crossbow, though I can't remember if there are any decent ones available from level 1.

Elminster1
2009-05-28, 08:58 AM
Personally, as a first time wizard player, I suggest being a Generalist. Reason being, you lose nothing, keep all your options open, and can figure out what spells, etc you like or don't like.

A nice starrting character is a Gray Elf (+2 to Int), and the Elven Wizard Substitution level at level 1. Located in the Races of the Wild Handbook. It gives you 1 extra casting per day at your highest wizard casting level. Plus, you get 1 extra spell known per level in addition to the standard 2, for a total of 3 spells per wizard level gain.

Don't worry about Prestige Classes so much. Archmage offers nice abilities, and isn't so hard to qualify for. I also like Mage of the Arcane Order or Guild Mage of Waterdeep. Easy, full progression, and nice perks, and hooks for RP'ing. Lastly, Fatespinner is another favorite of mine.

Spell selection is a little overwhelming. Guess it depends on what you like. If you choose Generalist, there's no limit. I usually prefer spells that have effect over damage. I come from the Batman school, and I prefer to let the guys with pointy sticks do the damage. Spells to consider would be things like Sleep, Ray of Enfeeblement, Grease, Silent Image, these tend to be the best low level offensive spells. Mage Armor and Identify are staples for some protection and utility. Just general suggestions.

I think going this route, you don't have to worry about too much, get really nice abilites, and have some powerful synergies and some optimization as well. Plus, you can learn as you go.

Eldariel
2009-05-28, 09:30 AM
Just one thing: On level 1 (and the couple first levels), it may be worth it to put ranks in Hide and Move Silently. If you have a decent Dex, you can use these to stay out-of-sight pretty well vs. most opponents, especially if you Reduce Person yourself.

This is especially true with Humanoids, many of which don't have Spot in class, but on level 1 the cross-class ranks + some base Dex is enough to have a decent chance even against monsters. If Abrupt Jaunt isn't game, this is one of the better ways to stay alive.


And yeah, don't make the mistake of preparing Magic Missile yet. The spell can be decent later, but that's when you get some caster level. On level 1, it's just a friggin' Crossbow shot that autohits; True Strike has almost the same effect and you're not preparing that either. Much rather hit opponents with mass disabling spells (outlined before); you do much more effective "damage" that way.

Chronos
2009-05-28, 11:15 AM
One thing to keep in mind is that, yeah, wizards suck at first level, but that's because almost everyone sucks at first level. It's supposed to be that way. Everyone in the party should be doing their best to avoid unnecessary battles, think their way around problems, etc. Once you get to around level 3-5, then you can afford to start getting a bit more aggressive.

Set
2009-05-28, 11:28 AM
Color Spray until you get 2nd level spells, then use a mix of Color Spray, Glitterdust, and Web. When you get 3rd level spells get Ray of Stupidity and Shrink Item, and be creative. Check the Batman Wizard Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104002) for advice for all levels, but that was basically all you really need to know to succeed.

This guy gives some great advice, both for spell selection and skill use.

Avoid spells that require attack rolls at first, because you'll really, really want to be Fighting Defensively, as much as possible (so color spray, sleep, etc. are all fine, as is magic missile, although it's a waste at 1st level, but shocking grasp, not so much). I've even seen some more AC-focused wizards go so far as to take Combat Expertise, at higher levels, but that's no help at level 1. Your most important attributes will be Intelligence, Dexterity and Constitution. You don't have any Cha, Str or Wis-based skills anyway (save Profession or whatever), so dump them if necessary, so that you can get extra AC (and ranged attack bonus) and hit points (as well as Reflex and Fort saves!). When you aren't anywhere near melee, feel free to stop Fighting Defensively and fire a crossbow or throw daggers when your spells run dry. With a decent ranged bonus from your Dex (and no Str penalty to damage for the crossbow), you'll at least be contributing, although you might be even more effective throwing acid, alchemist's fire and / or tanglefoot bags (mind that tanglefoot bags are *heavy,* and if you plan on throwing alchemy stuff around, take Craft (alchemy) to make your own stuff and save a ton of cash!).

If possible, pick up a Reserve Feat (I like the one that creates 5' firebursts) from Complete Mage, and use that when you are out of spells to be a second-rate warlock. This is your best of all worlds option, but not every GM allows them, and most have requirements like 'must be able to cast 2nd level spells' or whatever that require Precocious Apprentice cheese to qualify for.

Elminster1
2009-05-28, 12:40 PM
Yeah, your going to be fighting defensivley for the most part. I aslo second the idea of a Reseerve Feat, especially as a Generalist. The other one I really love is Spontaneous Divination (allows you to free up spell slots devoted to Divination). I also love Prestige Classes that have Spell Pool because it allows more versatility on the fly. Nothing is worse than having the wrong spell prepared.....

For the most part, avoid direct damage spells. The occasional blast is fine, like The Orb spells, since they are "dual threat", meaning damage + secondary effect. Anything is better than lousy HP damage alone.

Tempest Fennac
2009-05-28, 12:45 PM
Regarding races, my homebrew Fenneckin race could work better then a Grey Elf: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104140 . I'd also recommend being a Domain Wizard over a Generalist due to how you'd get an extra spell slot without losing access to any spells: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizardVariantDomainWiz ard .

Set
2009-05-28, 12:47 PM
I'd also recommend being a Domain Wizard over a Generalist due to how you'd get an extra spell slot without losing access to any spells: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizardVariantDomainWiz ard .

Oh heck yeah. If the GM is okay with a Domain Wizard, take one of those any day! Free stuff? No drawbacks? And it's in the SRD? Yes, please.

Conjuration and Transmutation seem like the best 'Domain' choices, although Necromancy doesn't suck. Avoid the direct damage based ones (Fire and Cold). Direct damage spells just aren't worth it, IMO. They do the same damage as in 1st edition, for the most part (and fireballs are smaller and lightning bolts can't be rebounded for double damage), and yet monsters (and critters with class levels) have significantly more hit points, making the direct damage spells much less effective, comparatively.

Doc Roc
2009-05-28, 02:07 PM
This is not what the "Being Batman" guide described, just the pejorative meaning the term has acquired being thrown around by detractors.

An optimized Batman boosts his teammates, hinders his enemies, and uses the right tool for the right task to achieve the greatest effect in an encounter with minimal spell expenditure. Nothing glory-hogging about that. If a competent Batman is shutting down an encounter with glitterdust and the other characters are severely unoptimized they may feel marginalized but if they're able to fill their roles adequately they won't feel their toes are being stepped on.

Holy ****, someone who's literate! GOD SAVE THE.... The.... Marmalade.

Domain wizard, yes yes yes yes! Lose nothing, gain much!

Direct damage is only worth it against other casters, and then only some of the more esoteric spells that don't allow saves and deal either force or untyped energy damage. My personal favorite is Streamers from Shining South. Another stand-by is the feat cloudy conjuration. Early in life, summons are a great long-term option, and cloudy conjuration makes them even better.

Dagren
2009-05-28, 04:34 PM
Dagren, if your DM is allowing PHBII, and you want to play a thiefy kind of wizard, you may find the beguiler to your liking. With the beguiler, if you don't have a rogue in the party you can take over trap-duty. If you already have a rogue, be a friend and use the Aid Another action to give the rogue the bonus to Disable, that way you're not showboating how vastly superior you are. :smallwink:Unfortunately, I've never even seen a copy of the PHBII, let alone own one. My resources are pretty limited, especially since 4E. (I visited my local bookstore today and there were only 3 3.x books in it) If it helps at all, I have a copy of the 3.0 PHB, access to the SRD and that's about it. Oh, and one of those 3 books I mentioned was a copy of the spell compendium, which I bought. Until I can find some more books though, that's it I'm afraid. (By the way, what is Complete Mage? I've heard of Complete Arcane, is that the same thing? I'd appreciate it if someone could let me know what I should be looking for)

Again, I'd like to thank everyone for the advice. I'm certain that I'll do better that I would have without it.

Devils_Advocate
2009-05-28, 08:05 PM
Something that still matters a fair bit at first level, because the bonuses it gives are still relatively large instead of relatively small, is your choice of race.

Humans give you a bonus feat and bonus skill points. These both tend to be good for any class, and Wizard is no exception. You can take e.g. both the Spell Focus(Enchantment) and Toughness feats to boost your low hit points and make that Sleep spell more likely to work. And in addition to the all-important Spellcraft and Concentration skills, you have lots of Knowledges to stick skill points into.

The main drawback to humans is that we have crap vision and hearing next to exotic fantasy races, with their low-light vision, darkvision, and/or +2 racial Listen bonuses. Which kinda sucks for a humans scout, but thankfully isn't really all that big of a deal for a wizard.

Gnomes have +2 Con, some nice little spell-like abilities, and size bonuses to AC, attack rolls, and Hide checks. They're especially good at Illusion magic and crafting alchemical items. Their natural craving for knowledge of all sorts leads many gnomes to study wizardry. Gnome can be a fitting choice of race for a subtle trickster mage.

Their disadvantage is their low movement speed, but, hey, that's what expeditious retreat is for.

Halflings, like gnomes, get bonuses from their Small size, and their +2 Dex enhances these. They're the stealthiest race, so halfling is your best choice if you want to try to pull off good Hide and Move Silently scores despite these being cross-class skills. They also have some small save bonuses. Also like a gnome, a halfling is good as a subltle trickster, but with a focus on stealth rather than deception and manipulation.

They also share gnomes' low speed and humans' poor vision, however, which limits their ability to sneak around well somewhat.

Elves make perceptive wizards. They have low-light vision, and their racial bonuses to Listen and Spot stack with the free Alertness feat from a familiar. Their racial bonus to Search also stacks with a Wizard's good Int bonus, giving a decent Search bonus that auto-detects nearby secret doors.

They also get free weapon proficiencies... but their Con penalty means that they should avoid melee, and a Wizard's likely Str penalty makes a bow a dubious alternative to a crossbow. Wizard is their favored class, but that's only helpful if you want to sacrifice arcane power in favor of something else, not if you want as much as possible.

Grey elf is an obvious choice because Int is very important to Wizards. You're still vulnerable, but so is a human Wizard.

Dwarves are a great race for anything because they get +2 Con, -2 Cha, and impressive bonuses against magic and poison. Also darkvision, and auto-Searching as good as an elf's, though applying to something different.

Unlike a heavily armored dwarf, a dwarf Wizard actually has a lower speed than another medium race would, and with none of the benefits of Small size. And +2 Con only means one more hit point at first level, so a 1st-level dwarven Wizard is still quite vulnerable to weapon attacks. Great defense against other spellcasters, though.

Half-elves have racial bonuses to Diplomacy and Gather Information, and that's why you might want to select one instead of an elf or a human. But unless you plan on regularly using these skills, a half-elven Wizard is pretty much going to be a sub-par choice.

ghost_warlock
2009-05-28, 11:15 PM
Unfortunately, I've never even seen a copy of the PHBII, let alone own one. My resources are pretty limited, especially since 4E. (I visited my local bookstore today and there were only 3 3.x books in it) If it helps at all, I have a copy of the 3.0 PHB, access to the SRD and that's about it. Oh, and one of those 3 books I mentioned was a copy of the spell compendium, which I bought. Until I can find some more books though, that's it I'm afraid. (By the way, what is Complete Mage? I've heard of Complete Arcane, is that the same thing? I'd appreciate it if someone could let me know what I should be looking for)

Again, I'd like to thank everyone for the advice. I'm certain that I'll do better that I would have without it.

Complete Mage came out a couple years after Complete Arcane. It doesn't have any new base classes but it does have 'arcane options' to replace class abilities for a number of classes, even ones that aren't usually magical. It also has a few, usually short 5-level, prestige classes, and a number of feats. The feats are probably the most notable, since it introduces the concept of 'reserve' feats. Basically, you take one of them and, so long as you have a certain type of spell prepared (or a reserve spell slot you could potentially use to cast the appropriate spell) you get some ability you can use over and over that's related to the type of spell it's based on. For instance, so long as you have a force spell prepared you can repeatedly shoot a 'force needle' that does a tiny bit of force damage (something like 1d4 per spell level of the force spell held in reserve). Most of these feats require 2nd-level or higher spells, though.

As for PHBII and other books, well, even if you can't get a hard copy of the book, there's a number of websites that sell .pdf versions of the book you can download, generally cheaper than the cost of the physical book. If you're going to be playing much, and you've got some cash to spend, you might want to look into it: PHBII is definitely one of the better books WotC produced for D&D. (I think most would agree that PHBII, Spell Compendium, Tome of Battle, and the Expanded Psionics Handbook are among the better/most loved books)

AbyssKnight
2009-05-29, 09:21 AM
Most of these feats require 2nd-level or higher spells, though.

Which is why a human wizard takes Precocious Apprentice (1 2nd level spell/day, must make a CL check to successfully cast it) AND a Reserve feat of choice.

You now have a 2nd level spell to power that Reserve feat, and since you aren't casting it you don't have to make a CL check.

Dagren
2009-05-29, 03:52 PM
OK, so Improved Initiative, try for a domain, look for Complete Mage & Arcane. (Maybe I'll check if Amazon has anything, I hadn't thought of that before) I'm going for human for race, and I'll have to check the low level spells in the Spell Compendium, see if there's anything to add to the list I've made from core.

Goatman_Ted
2009-05-29, 04:34 PM
With a low-level arcane caster, I like combining Complete Arcane's Precocious Apprentice with Complete Mage's Fiery Burst reserve feat. This gives an at-will 5ft radius 2d6 fire burst for when the real spells run out.

With the retraining rules in the PHB2, these feats can be swapped out for something more useful once you have enough spells to reliably cast all day.

I know you don't have access to these books, but since you say you're looking for them, I thought I'd post this anyway.

In a more limited setting, I usually like to aim for Spellwarp Sniper/Arcane Trickster or Unseen Seer, taking my first level in Rogue and having Sneak Attack/real archery/skills to play with when no spells are left.

Otherwise, learn to love your light crossbow and the defensive benefits of cover, concealment and falling prone.

Paul H
2009-05-29, 07:57 PM
Hi

May sound strange - but why a Wizard? There are other arcane options, depending on what you want to do, or what concept you plan.

Beguiler is good one from PHBII. Take Grey Elf for high Dex/Int, Beguiler for extra Skill Points, extra spells/day (Spontaneous too...), D6 HP & Armoured Mage. OK - no real damage spells, but plenty of Battlfield Control like Colour Spray.

You don't need to max out the Rogue abilities if you just want an alternate arcanist, but Tumble is always useful. You're also proficient with Bows for when your extra spells run out. And there's the large list of spells known. (You know your entire list at first level). Plus all those special class abilities & feats!

Downside is no Direct Damage spells, limited 'Knowlege' skill access, plus no familiar.

If you can, take the alternate 'Advanced Learning' option from PHBII. That way you can add any Sorc/Wiz spell to your list instead of just Enchant/Illusion. (The spell is one lower than you'd normally get, but takes same spell slot. Eg. Scorching Ray is still 2nd lvl spell, but uses 3rd lvl spell slot).

Hope this helps
Paul H

If you really

Shpadoinkle
2009-05-29, 08:05 PM
At low levels, spells like Sleep and Color Spray are a LOT more useful to you than Magic Missile. The latter can take down a weak enemy, but the first two can take down multiple weak enemies. This actually holds true for much of the game- buffing allies and debuffing enemies is usually more effective than just using direct damage spells.

Also, Mage Armor makes you (or whoever you cast it on, provided they're not wearing armor that gives more than 3 points to AC) that much harder to hit.

Finally, ask about Reserve Feats from Complete Mage, if anyone in the group has the book. Basically as lon as you have a given type of spell memorized, you can use a lesser variant of it, e.g. the Storm Bolt feat lets you cast a weak Lightning Bolt spell with range capped at 30 feet, BUT, as long as you have a spell with the electricity descriptor memorized (or available to cast if you're a spontaneous caster), you can use it without expending any spells, meaning you can do it all day long, or until you cast the spell you need to have memorized/available. Yes, the damage on these feats kinda sucks, but they still give you a ranged attack that doesn't rely on your BAB and can be used every round of every battle, if you choose.

Paul H
2009-05-29, 08:23 PM
At low levels, spells like Sleep and Color Spray are a LOT more useful to you than Magic Missile. The latter can take down a weak enemy, but the first two can take down multiple weak enemies. This actually holds true for much of the game- buffing allies and debuffing enemies is usually more effective than just using direct damage spells.

Hi

Yep - Beguilers are all about Battlefield Control. Some of their class abilities make their spells hardr to resist (Increased DC etc).

As for spells - they can control/disable enemies or buff the Party.

1st Lvl:
Charm Person, Colour Spray, Comp Langs, Disguise Self, Exp retreat, Hypnotism, Mage Armour, Obscuring Mist, Silent Image, Sleep, Undetect Alignment, Whelm

2nd Lvl;
Blinding Colour Surge, Blur, Daze Monster, Detect Thoughts, Fog Cloud Glitterdust, Hypnotic Pattern, Invis, Knock, Minor Image, Misdirection, See Invis, Silence, Spider Climb, Stay the Hand, Touch of Idiocy, Vertigo, Whelming Blast.

3rd:
Arcane Sight, Cairaudience/clairvoyance, Crown of Veils, Deep Slumber, Dispel Magic, Displacement, Glibness, Halt, Haste, Hesitate, Hold Person, Inevitable Defeat, Invis Sphere, Legion of Sentinels, Major Image, Nondetection, Slow, Suggestion, Vertigo Field, Zone of Silence.

This are just levels one to three. Remember - Beguilers know ALL these spells, and are Spontaneous Casters....... :smallbiggrin:
(My high level Beguiler dishes out 4th lvl Mass Whelms doing 10D6 non-lethal to multiple targets).

Cheers
Paul H

Doc Roc
2009-05-29, 10:44 PM
Beguilers are quite good but their constrained spell list is problematic after about fifth level, leading many people to PrC into classes that open up lists or such in an effort to widen their options. Domains and beguilers are a particularly.... beguiling combination. :)

woodenbandman
2009-05-29, 11:39 PM
I know I'm using the term wrong and in a prejudice manner, I guess I'm just bitter. I'm usually the stubborn TWF ranger with a focus on animal companions or whatever :smallsmile:.

Still, my point stands. You don't have to overoptimize to have fun.

The point of a player's optimization should be determined by the party's level of optimization. If you're the stubborn TWF animal companion ranger in the party of wizards, YOU are the disruptive influence. The optimization or lack thereof is not responsible for creating disruption, the disruption comes from being the statistical outlier in the party.

Doc Roc
2009-05-30, 12:19 AM
The point of a player's optimization should be determined by the party's level of optimization. If you're the stubborn TWF animal companion ranger in the party of wizards, YOU are the disruptive influence. The optimization or lack thereof is not responsible for creating disruption, the disruption comes from being the statistical outlier in the party.

+1 cookie!!

Devils_Advocate
2009-05-30, 02:23 PM
Paul H, Dagren mentioned not wanting to ban schools, which I think pretty clearly indicates a desire to play a generalist arcane spellcaster rather than something more specialized. A class like Beguiler (or Warmage, or Dread Necromancer, or a PrC or alternate class feature that requires additional dropped schools) restricts options even more than school specialization!

Dagren is just starting out, and so is probably better off with Wizard than a more specialized class. The Wizard class's flexibility more easily allows new players to try out various options to find the ones that work for them. If you find that something you're doing isn't working, taking a Wizard in a different direction is largely a matter of acquiring some new spells, and is something that can be done in-character. With more specialized builds, switching to a different sort of magic can mean replacing or at least significantly rebuilding your character, which means having to learn lots of new things all over again.

For all of these reasons, I think that a human generalist Wizard makes a good choice for a new player. Preparing a broad selection of generally useful spells is a good way to find out which ones are most useful to your group in practice, or just which tactics you most enjoy.

Paul H
2009-05-30, 08:42 PM
Hi

If he's new to arcanists, then yes, Wizard is good first choice. Since he's probably not going to multiclass either, Dwarf grants extra Con for HP & Fort saves. Also saves vs Poison, Spells & Spell Like Abilities are also nifty.

Knowlege Religion is a clas skill, so Arcane Disciple could help with extra choice of Domain spells not on Wizard list. (Eg NG follower of Pelor could take Healing Domain).

Another good thing about Wizards is Magic Item creation. Eg. Craft Wondrous Item at 3rd allows Headbands of Intellect for the extra bonus spells, higher save DC's, Int bonus to skill checks etc.

Cheers
Paul H
(Actually I prefer Grey Elf Beguiler/Wiz/Ultimate Magus mixes for flexibility).

Elminster1
2009-05-31, 11:39 AM
Wizards are Kings/Queens of arcane casting, hands down. Playing a wizard will give you a solid working knowledge of arcane casting, how the spells work, preparation, and a host of utility at your disposal.

That's why I originally suggested remain a Generalist, especially Elven Substitution Level 1, and Gray/Sun Elf as a race, since they receive a +2 to Intelligence. You still get the extra spell known at each new level attained, keep your Familiar (a good thing), and get 1 extra casting at your highest casting level per day.

There is a Domain wizard as well, which is very good. One arcane domain, cast domain spells at +1 caster level, lose nothing.

Crafting is hot, especially Craft Wonderous Item, since as a Generalist, you'll have zillions of spells to create with. Beware the XP price (you don't want to be lower level than the rest of the party, ouch).

If your DM loves you, you could technically combine Elven Generalist substitution and Domain Wizard for sick amounts of power.

Right now, I'm playing a Gray Elf wizard Generalist (with the substitution level at 1st), Guild Wizard of Waterdeep, and shooting for Archmage. I'm Wizard5/Guild Wizard4 shooting for Archmage, as an example.

Dagren
2009-06-05, 07:20 PM
OK, I got a copy of Complete Arcane, and I like the look of the Collegiate Wizard and the sudden metamagic feats. Is it worth taking them instead of what I was going to? (Combat Casting and Improved Initiative)

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-05, 07:46 PM
OK, I got a copy of Complete Arcane, and I like the look of the Collegiate Wizard and the sudden metamagic feats. Is it worth taking them instead of what I was going to? (Combat Casting and Improved Initiative)IIRC, the Sudden Metamagics have pretty steep prerequisites. Depends on which you want, and what you're using them for. Extend is good at low levels, and Quicken is always nice. Blaster metas aren't as good IMHO because of the fact that they need blasting in order to work.

Collegiate Wizard is pretty nice, but it depends on the campaign. If your DM tosses you a lot of scrolls as loot and you face a lot of Wizard opponents, it's not very useful. If your campaign considers Masterwork Swords to be things of Legend, take the feat and never look back.

Dagren
2009-06-05, 08:23 PM
IIRC, the Sudden Metamagics have pretty steep prerequisites. Depends on which you want, and what you're using them for. Extend is good at low levels, and Quicken is always nice. Blaster metas aren't as good IMHO because of the fact that they need blasting in order to work.Actually, the only one with steep requirements is Sudden Quicken. The others either have no requirement (Extend, Silent, Still, Widen) or just need any one other metamagic feat (Empower, Maximize). I was considering extend, yeah. (The question then is whether to burn it on an hour/level each morning, or save it for combat) Still might be useful for emergencies, though. Looking at it again, a lot of the new feats either have the only requirement as one other metamagic feat, or no requirement. Chain spell, Split Ray, Twin Spell... Of course, they all use high level slots, but the feats themselves have practically no requirements.


Collegiate Wizard is pretty nice, but it depends on the campaign. If your DM tosses you a lot of scrolls as loot and you face a lot of Wizard opponents, it's not very useful. If your campaign considers Masterwork Swords to be things of Legend, take the feat and never look back.I suppose I should ask the DM. I just hope he doesn't want to go with the world we were talking about recently. (Very rare magic, but also very powerful magic when it's there. Not playtested yet, likely very unbalanced) I can't see us playtesting that in our first game though.

Teron
2009-06-05, 08:30 PM
Avoid spells that require attack rolls at first, because you'll really, really want to be Fighting Defensively, as much as possible (so color spray, sleep, etc. are all fine, as is magic missile, although it's a waste at 1st level, but shocking grasp, not so much). I've even seen some more AC-focused wizards go so far as to take Combat Expertise, at higher levels, but that's no help at level 1.
You can't fight defensively or use Combat Expertise unless you're taking an attack or full attack action.

As for the domain wizard option, I can't imagine an honest way to convince a DM who knows what he's doing to allow it without a drawback. If you do, you should probably feel bad about it.

Dagren
2009-06-05, 08:50 PM
As for the domain wizard option, I can't imagine an honest way to convince a DM who knows what he's doing to allow it without a drawback. If you do, you should probably feel bad about it.Um, why is that? Clerics get domains as standard. Why should the wizard version require you to give up a quarter of your spells for?

Teron
2009-06-05, 09:06 PM
Um, why is that? Clerics get domains as standard. Why should the wizard version require you to give up a quarter of your spells for?
I didn't say anything about a quarter of your spells, specifically. However, in theory, regular wizards without domains are balanced with clerics with domains. In actual fact, the wizard is even stronger, due to the superiority of arcane spells. The last thing the class needs is more stuff without a trade-off. You might as well ask why the rogue shouldn't get fighter bonus feats for free (though the rogue, at least, isn't already the best class in the game).

The domain wizard is from a book of alternate rules, many of which are liable to skew game balance one way or another without the oversight of an experienced DM. It may be the most obvious examples, being an unmitigated power boost for the class that needs it least, barring other changes.

Dagren
2009-06-05, 09:28 PM
I didn't say anything about a quarter of your spells, specifically. However, in theory, regular wizards without domains are balanced with clerics with domains. In actual fact, the wizard is even stronger, due to the superiority of arcane spells. The last thing the class needs is more stuff without a trade-off. You might as well ask why the rogue shouldn't get fighter bonus feats for free (though the rogue, at least, isn't already the best class in the game).

The domain wizard is from a book of alternate rules, many of which are liable to skew game balance one way or another without the oversight of an experienced DM. It may be the most obvious examples, being an unmitigated power boost for the class that needs it least, barring other changes.OK, I was just wondering. Clerics get an extra slot for free, yet for the wizard to get an extra slot he has to give up 2 spell schools. I suppose wizard spells are better than cleric spells, but it seemed that clerics get quite a lot of advantages to make up for this even without the domain slots. I suppose arcane domains is a variant rule rather than a supplemental rule, so I won't complain if I can't get one. (I think the barbarian might be a better example than the rogue though, since the cleric is another caster)

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-05, 09:31 PM
OK, I was just wondering. Clerics get an extra slot for free, yet for the wizard to get an extra slot he has to give up 2 spell schools. I suppose wizard spells are better than cleric spells, but it seemed that clerics get quite a lot of advantages to make up for this even without the domain slots. I suppose arcane domains is a variant rule rather than a supplemental rule, so I won't complain if I can't get one. (I think the barbarian might be a better example than the rogue though, since the cleric is another caster)Wizard spells are far better, so Clerics get the HD, BAB, and armor. Wizards get great Familiar abuses or can trade it away for something completely awesome, Clerics get Turning. Wizards get the better PrCs and Specialization, Clerics get domains.

Dagren
2009-06-05, 09:44 PM
Wizard spells are far better, so Clerics get the HD, BAB, and armor. Wizards get great Familiar abuses or can trade it away for something completely awesome, Clerics get Turning. Wizards get the better PrCs and Specialization, Clerics get domains.I see. I was just comparing domains to specialisation, I guess I should have considered the rest too. Still, 1 extra spell can't be that broken, surely? (It's not like you get to choose it after all, unless I'm reading the SRD wrong)

...I just realised it probably looks like I'm trying to argue a point here, which I'm not really, I'm just having trouble seeing how 1 more spell per day is so overpowered I should feel ashamed for thinking about it. (That's the way I read it, again sorry if I misinterpreted it)

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-05, 09:56 PM
I see. I was just comparing domains to specialisation, I guess I should have considered the rest too. Still, 1 extra spell can't be that broken, surely? (It's not like you get to choose it after all, unless I'm reading the SRD wrong)

...I just realised it probably looks like I'm trying to argue a point here, which I'm not really, I'm just having trouble seeing how 1 more spell per day is so overpowered I should feel ashamed for thinking about it. (That's the way I read it, again sorry if I misinterpreted it)1 extra spell/level is considered worth 2 schools of magic, to the point where Wizards on here are almost assumed to specialize. Getting anything for free is worrisome, let alone something big on the already-best class in the game.

Fuzzy_Juan
2009-06-05, 11:04 PM
For an elven wizard, don't forget that you can use a longbow. While no str bonus sucks since you will likely have a low score, and the con penalty hurts a bit, the added mobility of being able to move and shoot helps a great deal when you are helping out without getting into the thick of combat. Using a move action to reload a light crossbow can suck since you get stuck in one place or have to move and reload and thus lose your turn. And the d8 from a longbow is nice too.

For low level wizards, I mainly use a bow or other ranged weapon and drop save or suck/lose as people. No damage spells were ever that great, even in 2nd ed. I will say preparing shield and mage armor all the time does indeed suck...if you want scrolls of something, those might be it aside from the other useful stuff. Remember to copy any scrolls you find into your spellbook if you don't have it already. Can't stress that enough. Too many people just forget about it.

Remember your 0th level spells too...mage hand, read magic, open/close, prestidigitation, detect magic are all pretty necessary.

Also...it helps with any class, but wizard especially...think outside the box. Or...outside the constraints of the rules. 4th ed hampers this slightly by fairly rigidly constraining what players can do to the environment and those in it, however, 3.5 and earlier editions can really turn on such wacky things as using dig to cause a rock slide or collapse a bridge. Casting grease into a cauldron while someone uses heat metal on it for a quick boiling oil attack during a seige...casting web between a tower and wall and using it to catch you as you fall...

things like that. Use your magic to alter the course of a battle into your favor, don't seek to use it as a blunt instrument save for the beast slaying ray of dumb. (if you can take it). Also...get a wand...soon...always having a spell (well, 50 charges) is superb. For wands, direct damage is just fine...though sleep or something might be even better. As much as direct damage is non-optimal...a good wand of lightning bolt or fireball never goes completely out of style. If you run into mooks and want to speed up the game, dropping a pie plate of doom and thinning the ranks some is a great way to move things along.

Atcote
2009-06-05, 11:09 PM
Don't fight. Use the best of your abilities to solve non combat puzzles, and when it comes to combat, try to buff yourself and your companions as well as possible (which is admittedly not very well). If your DM is in the mood for decent roleplaying/puzzle solving quests, try your best at them, then hide in the corner in fear of actual confrontation against any worthy opponent.

(Yep, this has made me decide; my next wizard's familiar is going to be a sentitent teddy bear). :)

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-05, 11:14 PM
Don't fight. Use the best of your abilities to solve non combat puzzles, and when it comes to combat, try to buff yourself and your companions as well as possible (which is admittedly not very well). If your DM is in the mood for decent roleplaying/puzzle solving quests, try your best at them, then hide in the corner in fear of actual confrontation against any worthy opponent.

(Yep, this has made me decide; my next wizard's familiar is going to be a sentitent teddy bear). :)Has anyone stated out a Koala? Because I want to use that for a self-buffing Gish.

Atcote
2009-06-05, 11:23 PM
See, I'm an Australian... If I included a koala, I'd be forced to bring in too many other of our cultural signs, and I don't want a cleric to be able to use a can of VB as a holy symbol. :smalltongue:

Volkov
2009-06-05, 11:25 PM
Run away from anything that is about to put you in it's threatened area, even if it's a fly.

Bob the Urgh
2009-06-05, 11:50 PM
Look at the snake as your familiar, the tiny viper has scent, an 18 AC, and a bite attack that can poison the enemy dealing 1d6 con damage

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-05, 11:52 PM
Look at the snake as your familiar, the tiny viper has scent, an 18 AC, and a bite attack that can poison the enemy dealing 1d6 con damageAnd is likely to get eaten alive by AoOs if you use him during combat.

Atcote
2009-06-06, 12:23 AM
As Sstoopidtallkid recommends, don't rely on your familiars - they're essentially a character based skill booster that you can do some rather clever and cool things with, but it's unlikely they're going to be oh so very useful at level one, as they often make merely a tasty tasty snack for whatever you're fighting.

yilduz
2009-06-06, 12:24 AM
Look at the snake as your familiar, the tiny viper has scent, an 18 AC, and a bite attack that can poison the enemy dealing 1d6 con damage

My character uses a snake as his familiar, but never for combat.

Triaxx
2009-06-07, 07:34 AM
On the snake: What monster can hit an AC of eighteen at level 1? Barring crits of course.

On the wizard: Don't focus on anything. Magic Missile is good, but not something you'll want prepared all the time. Mage Armor is not something you want. Shield is better for two reasons, first it applies the same AC bonus and prevents enemy mages from using Magic Missile on you. Grease is exceptional, especially if you fight in tight corridors. Burning Hands is preferrable to Shocking Grasp because it levels up, does not require an attack roll, and hits in a large area. Not to mention it's a good damage dealer on trolls.

Buffing allies is a good plan, especially at first level. Give the Fighter-type Enlarge Person, and the Rogue Expeditious Retreat. And either would be grateful for Magic Weapon. (And if they aren't, use Burning Hands.:smallwink:)

Even Dazzle has a chance to be helpful. So does Daze, especially if you find something weak to that save.

On familiars: It flies or it dies. Simple as that.