View Full Version : Exploiting the well being of your opponent

2009-05-28, 11:48 AM
I've created character ideas around alot of different themes in this game. Whether it be a tripper style fighter, a high AC tank, a specialized wizard, and sneak attack dependant rogue. You name it, if it's something available to a specific class, I do my best to find a way to take that feature to the next level.

One thing I haven't really played around with too much yet however, is altering the conditional status of the enemy. I'm talking about playing a character whose primary niche is to blind, deafen, sicken, scare, cause fatigue, etc, during combat.

Has anyone toyed with this idea in the past? Or perhaps know of some interesting feats/spells/PrCs that I may want to focus in while attempting to come up with one?

Is there one condition effect that stands out above the rest as being the most ideal? I guess technically the trip oriented fighter idea brushes on this concept by keeping your opponent on his can.

Keep in mind the following...
-I play in an all Good aligned campaign, if a specific condition effect is particularly nasty and has potential to alter my alignment towards the side of evil then its not an option.

2009-05-28, 12:07 PM
A save-focused Wizard can do a lot of that(Great Thunderclap FTW), especially since the weaker conditions are often imposed as the 'you get this on a success' thing, but there are other ways, including Ambush Feats, ToB, and Monk Stunning Fist Feats, to get a variety of conditions. Wizards do it better, though.

Fear-effects are generally pretty good, since they start weak, but stack with themselves to get to insane levels of nerfing, but they're Mind-Affecting Fear, so a lot of things are immune. There are a couple PrCs that help with this, though.

Stunning is generally second only to paralysis in terms of 'you're screwed', but it's not that easy to impose for the same reason.

Daze is pretty nice, not as good as stunning, but there is nothing immune to it.

Blind essentially casts Greater Invisibility on your party, but there are ways for opponents to get around it. If they don't have Blindsense/sight or similar, though, Blinding wins the battle.

Deafen isn't that good. Imposing it en masse can ruin an enemie's coordination, and it hurts casters a bit, but most of the time it doesn't do enough to be worth focusing on.

Fatigue is similar to Fear, in that the initial condition is weak, stacking it is where the benefit lies. That said, Exhausted isn't as good as Panicked, but again, has fewer opponents that will be immune.

Sicken is generally too small to be worth an action, but as an added effect, may be useful.

Confusion is IMHO too unpredictabe, but some people like it. Definitely too rare to focus on, though, especially since it, like so many of your othe options, is almost certainly Mind-Affecting.

There are others, but you get the idea.

2009-05-28, 03:05 PM
Don't forget nausea, removes the ability to take standard actions. And if you can jump something straight to cowering somehow (such as demoralization + never outnumbered skill trick + imperious command, from DotU), they can be hit with sneak attack (which can be better than panicked, depending on your goal).

Exhausted is best followed up with something that does ability damage, to drop them to zero str/dex and render them helpless. In fact, just ability damage itself fits it well with the concept.

Here's a fear/demoralization handbook http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809

And Fax Celestis's monk looks to be pretty good at this kind of stuff, though I haven't tried it out myself http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98238

2009-05-28, 03:32 PM
IIRC, 3.0s Song & Silence had a few Rogue Feats that allowed them to sacrifice some Sneak Attack dice to impose this condition or that.

Most of the conditions work well in a two-tier system (one effect on a good success, the less condition on marginal success or whatever);

Blindness / Dazzled
Nauseated / Sickened
Exhausted / Fatigued
Stunned / Dazed

So you could have a Fighter feat (or Stunning Fist / Sneak Attack-powered strike) that opened a bleeding gash over the target's eye (or gouged them in the eye, or whatever) and caused Blindness if they failed a save and the Dazzled condition if they made the save. Or a version that punches them in the junk and results in Nauseated or (if saved) Sickened status.

Effects such as the Lamed 'condition' that appears under the Caltrop write-up, could also work nicely.

And it's easy enough to come up with other 'lesser conditions' or combinations, such as a spell, martial maneuver or strike (whether Sneak Attack or Stunning Fist derived) that Disarmed someone on a good success and gave them the 'Unreadied (have to re-ready weapon)' condition or one that Tripped them or gave them the 'Off-Balance (lose Dex bonus to AC for one round) condition.'