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dragonsphix
2009-05-28, 03:43 PM
im starting a shadow run at my freinds house and i dont have any idea of what to through at them or any idea about the story line or any thing if you have any ideas please tell me i would greatly appricate any ideas no matter how wild they are.:smallsmile:

lisiecki
2009-05-28, 03:45 PM
Universal Brotherhood
Learn it
Love it
Live it

dragonsphix
2009-05-28, 03:48 PM
the universal brotherhood what is that?

lisiecki
2009-05-28, 03:53 PM
Universal Brotherhood was a story line for Shadowrun back in the 90s that set up MANY of the big plots that would be prevalent in 3rd ed.

Or, have them investigate the Lone Eagle incident.

(God i want closure on that one)

dragonsphix
2009-05-28, 03:54 PM
ill look into that thanks for the help any more ideas would be great.

lisiecki
2009-05-28, 03:57 PM
ill look into that thanks for the help any more ideas would be great.

What do you KNOW about shadowrun?
what about the setting appeles to you?

there are quite a few "classic" storylines
Denver
UBH
SuperTuesday
MobWar

Satyr
2009-05-28, 04:10 PM
Shadowrun works very well on the basic of the classic heist movie plot - you give an objective to the players - usually to steal something - and leave the players to make a plan how to do it. The game works best with a more pro-active approach for the player characters, who take the initiatve and planning in its own hands; than just add the setting specific flavor. Good Shadowrun plots probably look like The Usual Suspects or Ronin.

Rasilak
2009-05-28, 04:19 PM
If your whole group is new to Shadowrun (and you're somewhat experienced), it's better so start small. Like, a gang campaign, or low-pay jobs against fairly easy targets (breaking in some small companies to steal stuff/wreak general havoc, kidnappings/assassinations of 'normal' people, transporting/smuggling stuff, playing bodyguard or being hired to support building security). That way you can slowly introduce them to the concepts of Shadowrun without having to worry too much about the more difficult stuff (like real matrix runs, astral or vehicle combat, ...), and the errors your group is going to make (trust me, there 'll be LOTS) are not as fatal.
If you're new, too, you can go crazy with near-legendary jobs, because you're probably not experienced enough to notice every error they make, and they will get away with quite weird and incomplete plans. And the high-profile stuff just gives the best memories ("Remember the run in which we stole Lofwyr's rubber duck?").
If you're playing SR3, the Universal Brotherhood (like some before me suggested) is quite nice for high profile stuff, especially if you're goung into Bug City. Renraku Arcology:Shutdown also is freakin' awesome, but it's even better with a more experienced group (and GM), so maybe you should save that for later. But, for chrissake, don't start with Harlekin, or at least be careful not to play him like a complete *censored* (I've still got a deep hatred against immortal elves).
And don't be too mean with the consequences of your player's actions. Newbs tend to be quite violent and not very subtle, which would usually get them killed pretty fast if you play the world somewhat realistic.
Edit:
Oh, yeah, you should absolutely see Ronin before you master a Shadowrun game. I'd also suggest Heat, Payback and perhaps Bank Job or Ocean's Eleven for good measure.
And, for the Cyberpunk Setting, Johnny Memnoic.

Jack_Banzai
2009-05-28, 05:20 PM
+1 on the Universal Brotherhood and Bug City.

The trick to Shadowrun is to work up from nothing. Give them extremely lowball jobs to start with. Not super-easy, you can make them involved; just low pay and low chance of death with moderate chance of failure.

THEN you start working in things like foreshadowing the UB's insect spirit possession.

By the way: the thing where the Johnson ends up screwing the shadowrunners, that's been done to death. Don't do it any more than one of every eight runs or people aren't going to want to work for anyone anymore.

Yes, by all means, Ronin. See it immediately. Payback, ehh, maybe... you might consider Versus and the Persona series of games to see how magic might interact with a modern-day setting. For caper movies I'd recommend Once A Thief (John Woo movie, the HK one not the Canadian one), The Italian Job, and, believe it or not, Cradle 2 The Grave, a much-maligned but not-terrible flick. Oh, the Dresden Files (books, not TV) is a nice one too... though that's even better for inspiring Urban Arcana campaigns in d20 Modern I guess.

Kaun
2009-05-29, 12:03 AM
Keep there income low to start as a new group is good.. Alot of new players tend to go cyber nuts and want an implant to do everything .. If you keep there cash down for the first few sessions they tend not to go implant crazy and learn about the negatives of cyberware well befor they end up a psycho or sparking pile of bio mech goo or worse ...

Crowbar
2009-05-29, 07:50 AM
A recurring theme in Shadowrun is seemingly simple missions going completely wrong about halfway through. That bank robbery, for example? Turns out that that was to distract the authorities from the REAL run, that your Johnson informed the cops of your plans ahead of time and Lone Star is now behind you.

Because of this, I've found that some of the Firefly episodes work really well when refitted for Shadowrun.

hiryuu
2009-05-29, 11:12 AM
Yes, but they shouldn't. It's Shadowrun. If you have to roll initiative, you did something wrong. Real professionals know it's a set up, let the newbie Johnson know that they know, but will certainly go along with it and ask if there's anything they can do to make their performance louder. An established Johnson would say "I'm staging the real run in the next few blocks over and I want you to rob a bank as loud as possible at the corner of Fifteenth and Broxford."

However, Firefly does work pretty well... Except for one thing. Runners would have probably shot Jayne about ten minutes after meeting him (imagine how Ariel would have gone if Jayne wasn't there; professional runners would have smelled it on him eight jobs ago, and that episode sans Jayne is how Shadowrun should work: two sessions planning and legwork, five minutes of run). , and Badger and Niska would not be able to find work with anyone. For how you should be playing/running Shadowrun watch [/i]The Thomas Crown Affair[/i], or (better), Ocean's Eleven. Eleven is a very successful run.

John Campbell
2009-05-29, 01:33 PM
A recurring theme in Shadowrun is seemingly simple missions going completely wrong about halfway through. That bank robbery, for example? Turns out that that was to distract the authorities from the REAL run, that your Johnson informed the cops of your plans ahead of time and Lone Star is now behind you.

As GM I've found that it's seldom actually necessary to double-cross the PCs to make this happen. PCs are quite capable of coming up with plans that look good on paper but are really fatally flawed, of making inaccurate assumptions and relying on them without actually checking them, of doing ridiculously stupid things that sounded good at the time, of botching easy rolls at critical moments, and of just generally screwing things up all by themselves without any assistance from me.

Though I'll admit that I do kind of make it my job to enforce the maxim that no battle plan survives contact with the enemy. I don't like or trust the notion of insanely complicated plans coming off like a well-oiled machine, particularly when they require the enemy to cooperate with your plan.

And that's not to say that I won't double-cross the PCs. But it's best, I think, to keep the runs where that happens just common enough to keep the PCs on their toes without making them so common that they go into "quick, double-cross the Johnson before he double-crosses us" mode.

Winterwind
2009-05-29, 01:47 PM
Just make sure you do not make the mistake I keep seeing half ShadowRun gamemasters make - make an adventure that focuses too much on one single run consisting solely of entering some area (and doing something there and leaving again), and then make too little information about this area available to the players. Doing the former removes too many opportunities for social interaction and thus roleplaying, doing the latter means the players have nothing to base their plans upon. I have seen too many ShadowRun adventures end in the players trying to come up with a plan for hours, never certain what to do because the information they could gather was not sufficient to come up with an informed plan, and of course the plan they decided upon after hours after all fell apart immediately when they actually started to act upon it, since it was not grounded on facts in the least. Extremely boring and frustrating for players and gamemaster alike.

Rather, make sure a fair part of the adventure takes place outside of the run per se - talking with people who might have valuable information or help the runners get in (and who might live in dangerous areas, be difficult to access or be dangerous people to make deals with themselves), have them deal with rivals sent on the same mission, ShadowRunner teams hired by the opposition or bounty hunters sent after them (of course only if it is justified that this would happen), etc. And when the 'runners finally get to the run proper, they should be able to make informed, strategical choices what to do, rather than make wild guesses and argue for hours and hours (which, of course, does not mean that unexpected things shouldn't happen nonetheless).


tl;dr version: Make sure the runners are capable of coming up with a sensible plan without wasting hours and hours, and remember that interesting stuff (both roleplaying- and action-wise) is not limited to the run proper.

Rasilak
2009-05-29, 02:23 PM
Make sure the runners are capable of coming up with a sensible plan without wasting hours and hours, and remember that interesting stuff (both roleplaying- and action-wise) is not limited to the run proper.
QFT. I forgot that one, but especially if you come from D&D you should remember that a Shadowrun is NOT a dungeon crawl. Shadowrun is a very deadly game, and you can easily TPK your team if you don't give them the chance to make solid plans. That's why I suggested low-profile stuff earlier: The group might still survive combat long enough to get away with a bloody nose. Once they run into heavily cybered opposition with automatic weapons (or magic support) their first error is very likely also their last.
A typical encounter should be designed to kill the party in a fair fight. But it's your job as a GM to enable your players to make this fight as unfair as possible, or, even better, to never have this fight happen.

Tsotha-lanti
2009-05-29, 02:25 PM
Read William Gibson's Sprawl series (Neuromancer, Count Zero, and Mona Lisa Overdrive) and Bridge series (Virtual Light, Idoru, and All Tomorrow's Parties). The tech and 'net in the Sprawl series are a joke (much better in the Bridge, which actually deals with technology on a conceptual level), but the books are full of stylistic examples of runs of multiple types (Sprawl) and non-run adventures (Bridge; also excellent action sequences that don't involve the heroes having guns).

xPANCAKEx
2009-05-30, 02:03 AM
worrying that its taken this long for Neuromancer to be mentioned - a definate must read (even if some it comes across as dated)

*nothing should ever be as easy as walk in, pick up object, leave - why would a johnson pay people to do something he could do himself?
*nothing should ever be impossible to find out - at a price
*big and flashy draws attention. This is true of many many things

Xuincherguixe
2009-05-30, 11:19 AM
I've been toying with the idea of a "Heat" Mechanic. Not sure if it's strictly necessary, but could be a good way to represent how much attention "the man" has on you.

Heat mechanic or not one approach you can take is that any time a body is found, the attention that is given to the PCs is increased. Thus making the best strategy most of the time being to knock people out from behind. Makes things a lot more involved if they can't just blow someone's head off and leave them alone.

Naturally, killing a security guard is going to draw a lot more attention than killing someone that's living on the street. And where it happens means a lot too. But generally, killing people in a secure facility is likely going to get the suits furious. Almost as furious as stealing their stuff even. Really, if security guards keep dying, no one is going to want the job. Except for crazy people. And crazy people are more likely to be Shadowrunners than security guards.

if they do have to kill people, dispose of the body. It's easy enough to find someone who'll chop up the corpse and sell the organs, but can you really trust someone like that?

Makes the game a lot more involved really. And a little less murderific.

Tsotha-lanti
2009-05-30, 11:26 AM
Why would you need a mechanic for that? That's plot and roleplay. If the PCs break the law, leave forensic evidence, and murder people, they'll be wanted for crimes by people who know things about them, and will eventually be tracked down. Once they have one violent face-off with the police, things will escalate exponentially over subsequent encounters until they leave the country.

Note, too, that there's different kinds of attention.

Killing street people will attract the police, depending on the level of corruption etc.
- Corporate police contracted by a city will be as big on keeping crime stats down as regular police, but neither may be especially concerned with catching the real culprit.
- Corporate police contracted to specific neighborhoods will probably be even bigger about keeping that neighborhood safe, but if there's no city-wide police force, neighborhoods with no police contracts will be free-for-alls.
- Local gangs and inhabitants may have an interest in protecting people. If there's no police, there may be either a gang or a neighborhood watch (with firepower) who protect the area.

B&E, theft, and espionage will usually get you government attention if applicable, but even worse, it'll get you corporate attention, and these people have way more resources. They'll track your net signature, your gear, your fingerprints, your DNA, your magical aura, everything, and they'll send hackers, mages, monsters, spirits, and strike teams after you. They may not just kill you, but ruin your life, or grab you and make you work for them through blackmail (using your family or dangerous implants or magic). Corps won't just be interested in recovering what you took and revenge, but also in maintaining a reputation for dealing successfully and lethally with those who cross them.

Edit: Also, telling the players directly how much attention they've attracted is a bad idea. They shouldn't know if someone did find some clue; they should try to figure it out for themselves. "Well, we left his corpse in the open, they probably found it." "There's no way they detected the intrusion into the database!" "Hey dudes, the cops are swarming the streets looking for you!"

Xuincherguixe
2009-05-30, 11:36 AM
It's not needed, but it could be a way to at least make things generally consistent.

Why are the corporations throwing around all their weight for around for instance after you stole one brick of gold? They can hardly afford to bring down their wrath on every single person that commits crimes against them.

In real life, a lot of crimes against corporations does get left unreported. Sometimes it makes better business sense to just leave things alone.


edit: You don't have to let the players know how much heat they have either you know.

Tsotha-lanti
2009-05-30, 11:53 AM
Why would you need a mechanic to keep it consistent? You can decide the appropriate response for every situation. If you make a mechanic, the level of detail you'll need to actually account for all circumstances appropriately is far too high.

Why would they throw all their weight around for a brick of gold? Why would a "Heat" mechanic make you more likely to adjudicate an appropriate response?

I can't see what possible advantage such a system would have; even if you crafted it detailed enough, it'd be zero return on investment.

LibraryOgre
2009-05-30, 12:42 PM
"Heat" should really only become an issue in two situations:

1) On a specific job. If a corpse is found, then the security for the area is going to go way up, and in a way meaningful to the PCs.
2) Killed in a specific way, traceable to the PCs. If you have a character who always uses silver bullets, then the cops are going to start noticing if a bunch of people are killed with silver bullets. If you use an exotic caliber, then the cops are going to start paying attention when people are killed with that caliber of weapon. If you happen to be carrying a Predator II when someone is killed by a gun which might have been a Predator II, they're going to notice.

But if you wax a random bum on the street, and there's nothing remarkable about the death? It's going to slide, unless there are witnesses who want to do something about it.

OverdrivePrime
2009-05-30, 12:56 PM
Lots of great advice being tossed around here. I'm starting a new group with a SR4 campaign, and we're having a lot of fun with fairly simple "milk run" missions. Of course, there's no such thing as a real milk run, but player's can hope, can't they?

One of the things I like to do is play up the fact that the corps don't like to leave *anything* to chance, and so there will often be more than one team of professionals going after the same goal, often hired by the same corp. Or Have the team be hired by Evocorp, and there's a shadow team hired by the AZ that's going after the same goal, and whoops, a team of Renraku's in-house pros already got to the target first. As mentioned earlier, you can't pull that stunt too often, but if done once every blue moon, it makes your players a little more cautious about covering all their bases.

I like to throw in some subtle supernatural elements too - a Johnson who is a young dragon or shapeshifter, free spirit antagonists, recovering artifacts from the 4th age and such. It all depends on what really gets your players' cranks turning.

Tsotha-lanti
2009-05-30, 12:59 PM
But if you wax a random bum on the street, and there's nothing remarkable about the death? It's going to slide, unless there are witnesses who want to do something about it.

That depends. If you stick around, the cops may be canvassing the area (again, interest in keeping down number of unsolved crimes or giving a general appearance of security to clients), and runners tend to make good suspects whether they're guilty or not. In fact, runners could probably expect to be hassled more than average by cops, if they look anything like runners (or just don't look like they belong).

But in general, yeah. Unless you're an idiot and leave something you can be identified by (admittedly, that could just be a hair they can test for DNA and run against SIN information databases; but that might take a bit of a mean GM), you likely won't be specifically hunted for very long. Of course, there's a lot of ways your targets could learn that you were involved... people talk, and corps have ways of making them talk more.