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Sstoopidtallkid
2009-05-28, 08:55 PM
I was thinking recently that 4 Bards can fulfill all of the traditional in-combat and out-of-combat roles, and can do so without much multi-classing and PrCs. (Divine Bard IC optimization, Sublime Chord, Dragonfire Inspiration, and Snowflake Wardance). The only thing that's weak is the lack of a true tank, but the party having 4 healers and no truly vulnerable member compensates.

So, Playground, I have to ask: What other classes can pull this off.

Nohwl
2009-05-28, 08:56 PM
druids.

stupid character limit.

arguskos
2009-05-28, 08:57 PM
Well, 4 Clerics/Druids/Wizards can do it, but that's cheating.

The main one I can think of is that 4 Binders can do it without trying too hard. Vestiges are so damn versatile that a Binder party should be good all around.

Oh, and Sstoopidtallkid, we're playing Saturday at 5-ish. Friday fell through, sorry. Course, if you'd like to come over, you're always welcome. :smallwink:

Nohwl
2009-05-28, 09:02 PM
you could toss in archivists and artificers too.

Keld Denar
2009-05-28, 09:04 PM
There was a guy not long ago who was prepping a group of 4 clerics to take on a module, ToEE or something. He had a beatstick cleric who was an Ordained Champion/Fist of Raz, a caster buffer who was a radiant servant, a blaster who used Spontaneous Domain + Fire domain to get a bunch of nukes, and a Cloistered Cleric with the Kobald domain to serve as a trap handler.

I dunno how it turned out, but it sounded like he had a pretty solidly built party.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-05-28, 09:07 PM
Your four Bards idea could probably do it with Wild Cohort (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) on 2-3 of them, it fits particularly well with a Savage Bard. Obtain Familiar and Improved Familiar on 2-3 of them would also help, they could get Krenshars which get three attacks/round, which is good with Dragonfire Inspiration. The Morale bonus from Inspire Courage doesn't stack from more than one source, but if three have Dragonfire Inspiration and two have Draconic Heritage (via Dragontouched) for maybe Acid and Sonic, the different energy types would stack and everyone would be doing a lot of d6's per attack.

The idea of a party of four Druids and four Clerics has been around for quite some time. A Kobold Cloistered Cleric with the Trickery and Kobold domain (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a)s, who secretly worships Vecna and has the feat Whispered Secrets from Races of Destiny, is probably just as good a skillmonkey as any other class.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-05-28, 09:13 PM
Well, 4 Clerics/Druids/Wizards can do it, but that's cheating.You know, I almost said 'No big 5', but those OPs with a bunch of restrictions on what can and can't be talked about always annoy me. Fine:If it can fill all 4 roles at once, NO.

Also, Wizards can't fill the role of tank until level 5 or so, when SMIII kicks in. :smalltongue:

Sinfire Titan
2009-05-28, 09:20 PM
4 Factotums= Win, but it is tricky.

4 Warblades/Crusaders/Swordsages= Win, unless they face nothing but casters.

4 Rogues of varying specialty= Capable of dealing with anything via UMD/Skills. Even Undead/Constructs.

4 Truenamers= Crap. Well, I'm out of ideas.

Eldariel
2009-05-28, 09:28 PM
Also, Wizards can't fill the role of tank until level 5 or so, when SMIII kicks in. :smalltongue:

Then again, what does a 4-Wizard party need tanks for? You're a walking death squad from level 1 with the most fearsome offense in the land. Of course you're squishy as hell, so you'll be mostly playing Rocket Launcher Tag, but hey, who doesn't like Quake?

woodenbandman
2009-05-28, 09:29 PM
UMD should be left out because anyone can take ranks in UMD.

Anyhoo, i'd say a party of Totemists with the right build could do it. Heck, they could even heal with Shape Soulmeld (Vitality belt (?))

Sinfire Titan
2009-05-28, 09:38 PM
UMD should be left out because anyone can take ranks in UMD.

Anyhoo, i'd say a party of Totemists with the right build could do it. Heck, they could even heal with Shape Soulmeld (Vitality belt (?))

Agreed, but it's Shape Soulmeld: Lifebond Vestments. Vitality Belt grants you extra HP per Meldshaper level/essentia invested.

Heh, that would be a fun campaign to play in. WBM, find a DM willing to run something like that, I wanna jump on the bandwagon.

Siosilvar
2009-05-28, 09:46 PM
4 Warlocks could, especially if they chose their invocations carefully.

Beatstick: Eldritch Glaive (Dragon Magic), Hideous Blow
Skillmonkey/Scout: Leaps and Bounds, Fell Flight, Walk Unseen
Healbot: Use Magic Device
Batman: Any of the invocations, pretty much.

Blaster: Eldritch Blast
Party Face: Beguiling Influence + high Charisma (helps with save DC's, too)

arguskos
2009-05-28, 09:51 PM
You know, I almost said 'No big 5', but those OPs with a bunch of restrictions on what can and can't be talked about always annoy me. Fine:If it can fill all 4 roles at once, NO.

Also, Wizards can't fill the role of tank until level 5 or so, when SMIII kicks in. :smalltongue:
Though, a squad of four Binders isn't a terrible bet honestly. They're pretty solid, not that overpowered, and fairly fun. Man, I want to run a binder sometime.

Oh, and 4 Psions could likely do it, though that's pretty much 4 Wizards.

Now, here's the question: could 4 Sorcerers do it?

Zeta Kai
2009-05-28, 09:53 PM
4 Bio-Mages (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2487790#post2487790): 1 to stay in the class, 1 to go for Vampire Mage, 1 to go for Font of Life, & one to go for one of the other PrCs. Fun game, if you can hold onto your Life Points.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-05-28, 09:54 PM
4 Warlocks could, especially if they chose their invocations carefully.

Beatstick: Eldritch Glaive (Dragon Magic), Hideous Blow
Skillmonkey/Scout: Leaps and Bounds, Fell Flight, Walk Unseen
Healbot: Use Magic Device
Batman: Any of the invocations, pretty much.

Blaster: Eldritch Blast
Party Face: Beguiling Influence + high Charisma (helps with save DC's, too)

Healer is even easier. There's a 'good' Warlock PrC that heals when you dispel as a capstone. So while you can't dispel your own invocations, you can have others in the party throw up invocations, at will, to dispel, at will, for infinite healing.

Zergrusheddie
2009-05-28, 10:15 PM
At high level, Warlocks get Utterdark Blast which deals 2 Negative Levels as well as being converted to Negative Energy. If they all took Dead Walk invocation and Tomb-Tainted Soul, they could do it easily enough. However, Utterdark Blast is very high level but Use Magic Device could save you if you are willing to spend the cash for Wands of Mass Lesser Vigor. Have someone carry a bunch of dead squirrels/rabbits/cats/dogs to find traps with Dead Walk.

Best of luck
-Eddie

Zaq
2009-05-28, 10:19 PM
The early levels would be tough (basically because it's hard to skillmonkey), but four Dread Necromancers would be really fun. They're full casters, sure, but still, it takes more work for them to fill all of the major party roles.

Ooh, I know, four Ardents! Someone with Astral Construct can play tank and trapspringer, the Life mantle offers healing, and after that, well, they're full manifesters.

I'm not sure how four Psychic Warriors would get past the skillmonkey hurdle, but if they could find a way to do that, I bet they could take care of themselves.

Four Marshals would basically be the nerfed version of four bards. Likewise four Divine Minds... though come to think of it, if you layered the different auras down, Divine Minds might not suck quite as much as they do. They'd still suck, of course, but at least they'd all suck equally.

I think it would be interesting to watch two games (with no player overlap)... one in which there are four sorcerers, and the players can work together on their spell lists, and one with four sorcerers in which the players are not allowed to see or discuss each other's spell lists.

valadil
2009-05-28, 10:40 PM
I ran a thieves guild game with 5 rogues. It worked out fine. I didn't use undead and I doubled the HP of everything else.

IM@work
2009-05-28, 11:54 PM
I've done a 4 wizard party over thanksgiving once.

Basically summon monster spells= fighter. Only instead of one important chunk of hp you have 3-10 non-important, chunks of hp. The only problem is, as soon as one of the wizards is incapacitated/killed the rest of the party is pretty much up the creek without a paddle.

This is one of the only times a blaster type wizard is justified (or an evoker for that matter).

Another (fun) problem we ran into was the massive amount of cloud spells that were cast making every battlefield a horror to wade around in. At one point we dropped a couple clouds and walked away. :)

The final thing with this was that a single anti-magic field/golem combo pretty much doomed us all leading to the (customary) end of break tpk.

FMArthur
2009-05-29, 12:05 AM
Factotums would be the best if you want to avoid having wildly diverging character specializations. A group of psions are going to be so wildly different thanks to disciplines that it's hard to call them the same class. A Factotum/Chameleon party really does have all bases covered with no difference in individual character design.

Berserk Monk
2009-05-29, 12:08 AM
No bards. Gotta go all druid (or maybe all cleric).

sofawall
2009-05-29, 12:10 AM
To be fair, Factotum was mentioned.

EDIT: Both a ninja and a ninja-edit. Bad times for the pirates.

The_Werebear
2009-05-29, 01:25 AM
The early levels would be tough (basically because it's hard to skillmonkey), but four Dread Necromancers would be really fun. They're full casters, sure, but still, it takes more work for them to fill all of the major party roles.


Who needs a skillmonkey? Fling corpses at the door until all the traps go off and the door collapses under the weight of necrotic flesh.

Four Beguilers could make a go of it, but it would rely on them never having to fight a battle. Between the stealth and the social skills, they could probably do it too.

Four Monks would be utterly ineffectual, but surprisingly hard to kill. Maybe in a campaign where the goal is to deliver a message along an incredibly dangerous road (Monster infested and rickety, with lots of sheer drop offs and cliffs) at high speed. Other than that, I can't see it for any serious campaign

Four Paladins, if they pick their mounts well, might be able to do it. If they can draw fire to durable mounts they can heal the rides very efficiently. They can also do crippling damage if they build for charging and perform them. So, Paladins riding Dragons, Rhinos, Elephants, Tarrasques, War Trolls, or Demigods would be ok. On foot, less so.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-05-29, 01:54 AM
In a party of Dread Necromancers, one could use Advanced Learning to get Animate Dread Warrior from Unapproachable East. That turns a corpse into an undead creature that keeps all of its original skills and feats, though it takes Int -6, Cha -4. Still, casting it on a Rogue or similar class NPC could get them a capable trapmonkey.

Narmoth
2009-05-29, 01:57 AM
Not the most effective, but I'd like to see 4 paladins, all with different gods and agendas, work together.
That would be a fun adventure

Set
2009-05-29, 07:58 AM
Not the most effective, but I'd like to see 4 paladins, all with different gods and agendas, work together.
That would be a fun adventure

All Paladin and all Necromancer groups seem to be the most common theme groups in online fantasy games, and that would probably carry over to the tabletop as well. You need some sort of meatshield, some sort of healing and some sort of firepower. (Some people also like a skillmonkey, but in 20 odd years of D&D, we've almost never had one, or needed one. Trap goes boom. We muddle on.) All Druid and Cleric groups also have potential, and nothing says 'skillmonkey' like an actual Awakened Monkey with Rogue levels bought as a Druids cohort...

Once Leadership and / or intelligent templated undead (Ghoul Rogue, frex) become an option, both the Paladin and the Necromancer have ways of adding a skill-monkey to their group anyway, if they find that they can't function without one.

Eerie
2009-05-29, 08:06 AM
Four Ninjas. The best strategy is to let three of them die, the last one standing becomes Death Incarnate. :smallbiggrin:

Tiki Snakes
2009-05-29, 08:26 AM
Not the most effective, but I'd like to see 4 paladins, all with different gods and agendas, work together.
That would be a fun adventure

Yes, that would be gooood. Also with the steeds of awesome mentioned above. I love the idea of 4/5 heavily armoured holy knights basically crushing their way through a campaign on beast-back.

That'd be good times.

Meat Shield
2009-05-29, 08:50 AM
All the members in my home game have 3 levels in a ToB class - we met at monastery essentially growing up. Healing could be tricky or slow, but I think 4 swordsages or warblades could be fairly AWESOME, especially if the players have suitably theatrical descriptions of all their actions. It would look like a wire-fu superhero team if done right.

JellyPooga
2009-05-29, 09:02 AM
Pah! Who needs versatility? 4 Barbarians is all you need! Defeat everything by SMASHING IT! Monsters, Doors, Evil Wizards, Haggling, Walking, Princesses (you smash them gentler though)...you name it, 4 Barbarians will smash it good! And don't start giving me that Wizards pwn Barbarians stuff people keep going on about! One Barbarian might (and I stress 'might', I'm not convinced) have trouble with a Wizard, but 4 together? Never! The sheer overload of raw masculinity of 4 hulking Barbarians in the same room (yes, even if they're all female) actually creates an Anti-Magic Field inpenetrable by even the strongest magic!

JaxGaret
2009-05-29, 10:53 AM
Pah! Who needs versatility? 4 Warmages is all you need! Defeat everything by BLASTING IT! Monsters, Doors, Evil Wizards, Haggling, Walking, Princesses (you blast them gentler though)...you name it, 4 Warmages will blast it good! And don't start giving me that Wizards pwn Warmages stuff people keep going on about! One Warmage might (and I stress 'might', I'm not convinced) have trouble with a Wizard, but 4 together? Never! The sheer overload of raw masculinity of 4 trigger-happy Warmages in the same room (yes, even if they're all female) actually creates an Anti-Magic Field inpenetrable by even the strongest magic!

Set
2009-05-29, 11:02 AM
Pah! Who needs versatility? 4 Barbarians is all you need! Defeat everything by SMASHING IT!

One of the funnest Dungeon Delves we did at Gen Con had three of the (six?) players using the generic Barbarian Q'lys.

Fun, fun, fun. It was a Rage-a-palooza! Someone did play a Cleric, but she never got close enough to heal anyone, since we ran through the entire thing and she sometimes had to take double-moves to just be in the same room as the encounter...

Tiki Snakes
2009-05-29, 12:45 PM
I take back everything I said about paladins. Screw them.

Oh god, the 4 barbarian party wins so hard. (Frankly, even or especially in 4th? I believe so. I do!)

Zeta Kai
2009-05-29, 12:58 PM
Four Fighters, with a proper divergence of feat, would probably be able to...

...die entertainingly somewhere around level 5. :smallredface:

BobVosh
2009-05-29, 01:04 PM
Four Fighters, with a proper divergence of feat, would probably be able to...

...die entertainingly somewhere around level 5. :smallredface:

But...if we were to have 300...near naked, with shields and swords...

No DM could possible be so mean as to kill them. Plus 1-4 gamer nerds annoyed at you? No problem. 300 hardcore fan boys? Imagine the geekdom!

IM@work
2009-05-29, 01:15 PM
One of the necromancer variants allows you to forgoe a familiar and get a skeleton that levels up alongside you. Bam. 4 wizards, 4 fighters. Insanely broken.
One (group) of paladins crush you.

Curmudgeon
2009-05-29, 03:41 PM
I like the 4 Rogues. You get two sneak attack specialists who operate as flanking partners for combat, one sneaky guy grabbing all the magical gear that's not nailed down, and one UMD expert to use the wands, scrolls, and whatnot the sneaky guy stole acquired.

Set
2009-05-29, 04:00 PM
One of the necromancer variants allows you to forgoe a familiar and get a skeleton that levels up alongside you. Bam. 4 wizards, 4 fighters. Insanely broken.

Ooh, that's hot. Great find!

Unearthed Arcana p 63, and it only costs you the ability to summon a familiar, and, if it dies, you can create a new one in 24 hours with a 100 gp expenditure.

Forbiddenwar
2009-05-29, 04:16 PM
Curious:

How does a 4 wizard party survive the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th encounters after they have used all their spells?

Running away?

Oh 4 barbarian party definitely takes the cake. I may have to run that game on a fun, non cannon night party!

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-05-29, 04:23 PM
Curious:

How does a 4 wizard party survive the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th encounters after they have used all their spells?

Running away?

Oh 4 barbarian party definitely takes the cake. I may have to run that game on a fun, non cannon night party!Same way the 4 Barbarian party survives after they've used all their HP:poorly.

Though the Wizards do sleep easier.

Bayar
2009-05-29, 04:25 PM
Curious:

How does a 4 wizard party survive the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th encounters after they have used all their spells?

Running away?

Oh 4 barbarian party definitely takes the cake. I may have to run that game on a fun, non cannon night party!

Every good wizard carries backup. Like a scroll of Invisibility. Unless the wizard banned Illusions. Then he brought it upon himself.

Plus, get Hevard's relaxing bedroll. 1 hour of sleep to restore spells FTW.

Optimystik
2009-05-29, 04:30 PM
4 Psions imo. Especially if each one can be a different discipline.

You also get to do fun shenanigans like Metaconcert and Fusion. :smallbiggrin:

Olo Demonsbane
2009-05-29, 04:38 PM
Curious:

How does a 4 wizard party survive the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th encounters after they have used all their spells?

Running away?

:smallsigh:, here we go again.

At 1st or 2nd level, a Wizard party isn't very viable...the wizards are just too squishy.

BUT, at 3rd level, a Wizard gets the spell Rope Trick. You basically create an extradimensional tent for 1 hour/CL. At low levels, the wizards take turns using their spells to create one...at high levels, that is not necessary.

So, if you run out of spells, pop open a Rope Trick! Take an 8 hour snooze, get back up, and you are fully refreshed!

Plus, if the Wizards are smart, they will be able to take 7 encounters to run out of spells. Each encounter, one of the wizards uses one of his highest level spells to effectively end the encounter. All of the others use a summon monster spell of a lower level, or perhaps another, augmenting, BC spell. Then the wizards use their DD spells/Summoned minions/Reserve Feats/Crossbows to do clean up. Each wizard has used 1 or 2 spells per encounter. 1 of these was a high level spell.

Berserk Monk
2009-05-29, 04:42 PM
Curious:

How does a 4 wizard party survive the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th encounters after they have used all their spells?

Running away?

Oh 4 barbarian party definitely takes the cake. I may have to run that game on a fun, non cannon night party!

barbarian rage=wizard spells*

*once you use all of them up, you're not that useful

I don't know what is wrong with all you people. For a party to survive, they need healing. A druid is a healer, as well as a little bit of every other class. Clerics can heal too, and thanks to domains, you can create a cleric to fill any void in the party. The obvious answer is druid or cleric (maybe paladin, but you really need to design them so they can heal a lot of damage).

Draz74
2009-05-29, 04:53 PM
The class that has healing, and also never runs out of its abilities and needs to sleep, is the Crusader. So if we're foolishly saying "an all-caster party won't work, they'll run out of spells," and if we're ruling out classes with no healing, then the Crusader gets the gold medal. With the Binder getting a silver.

Really, though, Cleric is probably the best class for a one-class party, especially if Cloistered Cleric still counts as a Cleric. Just like other people have been saying.

Hmmm, it would be kind of fun to play a party, though, where the characters all have chronic insomnia and keep adventuring 24/7. Classes that have no "per day" abilities (or very few) include:

Crusader, Swordsage, Warblade, Warlock, Dragonfire Adept, Totemist, Rogue, Binder, Scout, Incarnate, Fighter, Monk, Swashbuckler.

Deepblue706
2009-05-29, 05:04 PM
I think four Rangers could do alright...at least for a little while.

For starters, they have decent HP and good saves (they'll want at least a touch of WIS for spells, and Fort and Ref will already be good). You'll be sure to have at least one good archer, and it's not hard for one ranger to be a decent charger (assuming you're a human...bonus feat helps), and any of them could carry around wands to heal and buff. They've all got stealth skills, meaning they'll probably be great in preemptive strikes. If any are allowed to take a variant of Ranger (while the rest of the party remains basic), one could go Wild-Shape Ranger for some more variety.

Level 4 and later, they'll ALL have pets. So, they be able to swarm whatever-the-hell they're fighting with lots of stupid animals, which can provide plenty distraction, as well as make terrain too crowded for enemies to charge back or use area spells as effectively.

sebsmith
2009-05-29, 10:01 PM
I think four Rangers could do alright...at least for a little while.

This could do very well if there was a way to give Rangers the ability to find traps. For the first few levels or so they can pretend to be fighters, but by 6th level one of them could have taken sword of the Arcane order and have access to Wizard spells. The charge build almost certainly wants the Strong-arm combat style (since it gives power attack, improved sunder, and great cleave instead of anything else). At least before variants, all of them would be able to heal, and with variants they'd get plenty of ability which would help make up for it.

Curmudgeon
2009-05-30, 07:05 AM
Really, though, Cleric is probably the best class for a one-class party, especially if Cloistered Cleric still counts as a Cleric.
Cloistered Cleric (Unearthed Arcana) does still count as a Cleric, just as much as a cheesy Lion Spiritual Totem Barbarian (Complete Champion) still counts as a Barbarian. It's just a variant, not a new class. The same goes for the Divine Magician (Complete Mage), Divine Restoration Cleric (Dungeonscape), and all the other variants.

Mordar
2009-05-30, 02:44 PM
Not the most effective, but I'd like to see 4 paladins, all with different gods and agendas, work together.
That would be a fun adventure


Yes, that would be gooood. Also with the steeds of awesome mentioned above. I love the idea of 4/5 heavily armoured holy knights basically crushing their way through a campaign on beast-back.

That'd be good times.

We're actually doing this...I posted on it some time ago in another thread, but don't know how to link to other threads :-( So, with apologies, here's the post, edited slightly.

First off, a disclaimer: We play 90% non-optimized, characters-as-heroes-of-the-story first, and crunchy DnD second. Not to say death doesn't come knocking or that risk is absent...just that the DM's not going to rush out to exploit every weakness possible.

So, we're playing a 3-player (plus DM) 4e campaign and have just reached level 3. There has been one death which was the result of unfortunate rolls, a PC taking 1 point of damage too much...and then the inability to make even one death save. What three characters, you ask?

The three Palamigos! Okay, so, they'll hit me if they see me using that reference again...after all, it is a serious game, not a spoof. We are all playing a paladin, each of a different god, and it's been good fun so far.

There is a Dragonborn paladin of a Bahamut-like god, a human paladin of a war god more akin to Athena than Ares and my half-elf paladin of the life/love gods (twin gods). We chose powers and builds completely independently and achieved a nice mix, covering all the powers.

In effect, the Dragonborn is a striker/leader, the human a defender/leader and I'm kind of a cross of striker/defender/leader. Right, I know - we're not optimized so we can't win DnD :)

The human took multiclass - Warlord (fitting with the background), as the charismatic love-loving paladin I took multi-class Bard...80% because it fit and 20% because it gives us some heal/slide ability (okay, maybe 70/30). Combined with all of our Lay on Hands we're in decent shape...come level 4 it'll be even better with me finally getting a second LoH use ("Pretty, but not too bright") and Healing Hands to add a nice healing bonus.

So, what's the point of my post? Well, it's that there's flexability enough in 4e to allow a group of 3 paladins to be reasonably effective as long as everyone's on the same page. Well, that and to get to say "Let me tell you about our characters".

- M

Zaq
2009-05-30, 03:02 PM
Ooh, four Dragonfire Adepts! Sure, a single enemy with Evasion will make them swear in new and inventive ways, but they'd look awesome while doing it. Especially if they all ready actions to breathe at the exact same time, preferably in different flavors.

Come to think of it, dealing with evasion-happy enemies would be one of the only major hurdles for a diverse team of DFAs. I guess one or more of them could take Knowledge Devotion and those invocations that boost knowledges to become a halfway capable melee fighter in a pinch.

Let's see, has anyone yet mentioned four incarnates? Incarnates can fill an awful lot of roles if they know what they're doing. Just about the only thing I can think of that would actually be difficult is healing, but they can use Mage's Spectacles to pump UMD and use wands of lesser vigor. There's also the Lifebond Vestments, which get downright comical when four people are using them at once...

ChaosDefender24
2009-05-30, 03:23 PM
Four monks for great justice...

Dogmantra
2009-05-30, 04:01 PM
Four monks for great justice...

Actually...
A STR focused atttacker, a grappler, a tripper/disarmer, and a "skillmonkey" would be quite cool. Completely unoptimal, but it would probably be fun.

raptor1056
2009-05-30, 05:02 PM
I am running a 6 man pirate campaign, with 1 Fighter, 1 Swashbuckler, and 4 Rogues. It is very cool.

JaxGaret
2009-05-30, 05:13 PM
For a party to survive, they need healing.

Healing Belts and Wands of LV/CLW (or Eternal Wands for parties that don't have a divine caster or UMD) cover that pretty nicely.

ChaosDefender24
2009-05-30, 05:25 PM
It would be a real challenge to pull off 4 monks. I wonder what would happen if everyone did king of smack/stunning fist optimization....

JaxGaret
2009-05-30, 05:31 PM
It would be a real challenge to pull off 4 monks. I wonder what would happen if everyone did king of smack/stunning fist optimization....

I think a party of 4 Monks would be running away a lot.

"Can this problem be solved by running away? Yes? Let's go!"

Eldariel
2009-05-30, 05:35 PM
It would be a real challenge to pull off 4 monks. I wonder what would happen if everyone did king of smack/stunning fist optimization....

If multiclassing is allowed, it's no problem; Monk 2/Psion (or Psy War or Ardent)/Illithid Slayer with Tashalatora is pretty friggin' amazing as far as melee goes; getting those 2d10 unarmed strikes as a baseline for size increases just kicks ass. And Sacred Fist does a very decent Cleric-act, and even Enlightened Fist can be semi-decent as an arcane gishish class. Now, 4 Monks going Monk 20, that would be a true challenge. Especially built on 25pb.

The Dark Fiddler
2009-05-30, 05:45 PM
The sheer overload of raw masculinity of 4 hulking Barbarians in the same room (yes, even if they're all female) actually creates an Anti-Magic Field inpenetrable by even the strongest magic!

This is the best houserule I've ever heard. I'm stealing it.

Atanuero
2009-05-31, 11:18 AM
Hey.

Hey guys.

4 Chameleons.

Flickerdart
2009-05-31, 11:51 AM
Hey.

Hey guys.

4 Chameleons.
That's kinda...cheating. Same as 4 Factotums.

DamnedIrishman
2009-05-31, 04:37 PM
Pah! Who needs versatility? 4 Warmages is all you need! Defeat everything by BLASTING IT! Monsters, Doors, Evil Wizards, Haggling, Walking, Princesses (you blast them gentler though)...you name it, 4 Warmages will blast it good! And don't start giving me that Wizards pwn Warmages stuff people keep going on about! One Warmage might (and I stress 'might', I'm not convinced) have trouble with a Wizard, but 4 together? Never! The sheer overload of raw masculinity of 4 trigger-happy Warmages in the same room (yes, even if they're all female) actually creates an Anti-Magic Field inpenetrable by even the strongest magic!

Whilst we're on the subject, both ninjas and hippos have REAL ULTIMATE POWER!!11!!1!!


EDIT: "Blasting" princesses? Hell of a double entendre...

Zeful
2009-05-31, 05:08 PM
4 psychic warriors would work. Between Psionic Weapon/Shot/Fist, the other psionic feats, and a good power selection, you could have four different niches filled at all times.

Jack_Simth
2009-06-01, 07:10 AM
Though, a squad of four Binders isn't a terrible bet honestly. They're pretty solid, not that overpowered, and fairly fun. Man, I want to run a binder sometime.

Oh, and 4 Psions could likely do it, though that's pretty much 4 Wizards.

Now, here's the question: could 4 Sorcerers do it?
Yes, same way the four Wizards do it (by sixth level, it's entirely possible to have a save-or-lose of each type, plus a few no-save effects - Web, Glitterdust, and Stinking Cloud do quite nicely). Especially considering that they're permitted Healing spells, Core Raw, if they "study" them. If the DM nixes that, there's that one domain feat plus wands, no problem.

Leon
2009-06-01, 08:37 AM
I was thinking recently that 4 Bards can fulfill all of the traditional in-combat and out-of-combat roles, and can do so without much multi-classing and PrCs. (Divine Bard IC optimization, Sublime Chord, Dragonfire Inspiration, and Snowflake Wardance). The only thing that's weak is the lack of a true tank, but the party having 4 healers and no truly vulnerable member compensates.

So, Playground, I have to ask: What other classes can pull this off.

The Four Tenors tour the Outer Planes

Epinephrine
2009-06-01, 08:42 AM
4 Spellthieves! Target them with spells at your own risk.
They've got sneak attack nicely covered via flanking, they can pretty much pass spells around as desired, UMD covers much of the utility they need.

Thanks to their various powers to steal spells, spell effects, spell-like abilities, resistances, SR they might do pretty well, and at high level the ability to absorb and immediately respond to spells would be pretty amazing, as they shrug off most magical attacks.

aje8
2009-06-01, 05:47 PM
4 Wizards... but heres the ingenious plan for lv.1-3 survival.

At lv.1, party pools it's money and buys as many Riding Dogs as possible (Since Wizards are basically gear independant..... might need a healing belt and meta-magic rods around level 5 but until then it's a crossbow and thats it.)

Riding Dogs are better than a Fighter 1...... seriously look at their stats. They can take the cr1 encounters alone.

At lv. 2, pool party money to buy as many heavy warhorses as possible.... they can basically take any CR 2 enounter... espically with buffing and summon help.

At lv. 3, Wizards get Glitterdust and Inviability. Their BSF Heavy Warhorses now rip through the Glitterdusted enemeis and running away is easy for the wizards.

Lv.4 is hard but basically same strategy as before.

Lv. 5 Wizards get Fly, Haste, Fog Cloud, Summon Monster III(The best one for pure combat for it's level) ect. ect. ect.... Bascially they're now able to take anything of appropiate CR. Also: Each buys a healing belt.

lv.7 Wizards can now take on things far beyond their CR. One is likley heading for IoSV, one for Fatespinner, one for Malconvoker and one for Incantrix or something like that. They're mostly Specalists and Focused Specalists and by this time all owning everthing. They've got Enervation, Save or Loses, good summoning, Polymorph, great BC..... plenty of broken.

lv. 9 Wizards are now capable of taking on Fighter 20s...... seriously they just won DnD.

Flickerdart
2009-06-01, 05:54 PM
4 Spellthieves! Target them with spells at your own risk.
They've got sneak attack nicely covered via flanking, they can pretty much pass spells around as desired, UMD covers much of the utility they need.

Thanks to their various powers to steal spells, spell effects, spell-like abilities, resistances, SR they might do pretty well, and at high level the ability to absorb and immediately respond to spells would be pretty amazing, as they shrug off most magical attacks.
This is a hilarious mental image...four guys surround one enemy and then pound him into the dust with Sneak Attacks. If he's alive, he can't even leave the circle of death without grappling, and no one wants to grapple.

Talya
2009-06-01, 05:59 PM
Four Ninjas. The best strategy is to let three of them die, the last one standing becomes Death Incarnate. :smallbiggrin:

Ah, creative use of the Law of Conservation of Ninjitsu!