View Full Version : Illuman effect on Beguiler / Wizard Ultimate Magus build

Josh the Aspie
2009-05-28, 10:06 PM
Hello all.

Several folks on the forum have advocated using following UM build:

Beguiler 1 / Wizard 4 / UM 10

with the Feat: Practiced Spellcaster (Beguiler)

Several folks have stated that also using the Illuman will allow one to gain all 10 / 10 additional progression for Wizard.

I believe this to be based on the Illuman Rune "Krau".

Krau (“magic”): +1 bonus to caster level for all spells and spell-like abilities (up to a maximum value equal to the illumian’s character level).

However this rune also boosts the wizard CL, keeping the two at the exact same relative position, compared to not playing an illuman.

Between Wizard 4, and the first two level selections going to Wizard, Beguiler looses 6 caster levels total.

Illuman + Practiced Spellcaster raises this by 4, to Character Level - 1.

But Illuman also compensates for the only lost Caster level of Wizard, making the Wizard Caster Level equal to Character Level. This then means that the last choice would still be forced to give the last Caster Level to Beguiler, making Wizard progression 9/10.

I searched the wizard website for errata on the book, but did not find it in the short searches I did.

Is anyone aware of errata that would change the above?

Keld Denar
2009-05-28, 10:18 PM
There is a passage in the text, under spellcasting. Its the 2nd to last sentance there. It reads:

<snip> If all of your arcane spellcasting classes have equal caster levels, you can apply this benefit to any of your existing arcane spellcasting classes.<snip>

Thusly, when Illumian Krau rune keeps all of your CLs equal, you get to apply the CL increase to whichever one you want, which is usually wizard in that Beguiler1/Wiz4/UM10 build.

Josh the Aspie
2009-05-28, 10:37 PM
Well yes, except that you loose 6 caster levels on beguiler, and only gain back 5. This means beguiler Caster Level is at Character Level - 1, but Wizard Caster level is at Character Level. This is not equal, and thus does not create this effect... until you gain your second sigil, which then increases the bonus to +2.

On attaining 2nd level in any class, an illumian gains
a second different power sigil, and the bonus granted
by each power sigil increases to +2.

My Error. Thank you!

2009-05-28, 10:53 PM
Also note that Illumians are Humanoid [Human], and can take the feat Able Learner from Races of Destiny. That way you can fill the roles of primary arcanist and trapmonkey all in one build. Another thing to keep in mind is the feat Versatile Spellcaster in Races of the Dragon, which allows you to spend two Beguiler spell slots of equal level to cast any spell you know of one level higher, not limited to the same spell list. That means you can spend two 2nd level Beguiler spell slots to cast any 3rd level Wizard spell you know, regardless of whether or not you have it prepared. Good for utility and what-if spells that you wouldn't normally be preparing each day.

Josh the Aspie
2009-05-28, 10:57 PM
I was eying that Able Learner feat for the build already, yes. Just was trying to figure out if it applied or not.

And thanks for the heads up on the Versatile Spellcaster feat.

The main problem is that Illumans just.... don't really make sense to me, nor does Int based spontaneous casting.

:P I figure I'll make this build an exercise in making characters that make sense to me out of things that don't. That, or poke a lot of fun at myself.

*belly up to the bar* "Alphabet soup please!"

2009-05-28, 11:08 PM
I think you've got the calculations wrong somewhere, or you misread the Illumian Sigils ability.

An Illumian that has 2nd level in any class has 2 Power Sigils, not one, and the bonus granted by each of his sigils increases to +2. Therefore, Illumians will give you +2 to caster level.

Ultimate Magus, if taken all the way, is 7/10 Casting for the arcane casting class with a higher caster level and 10/10 for the other.

Using Practiced Spellcaster, an Illumian Beguiler 1/Wizard 4 has a Caster Level of 5 for both Beguiler and Wizard (Since both Practiced Spellcaster and Power Sigils are limited by character level). Upon entry, you thus get to choose which of the two classes to advance.

Assuming you picked Wizard, you now have:

Beguiler casting 1, caster level 7 (Practiced Spellcaster +4, Krau Sigil +2, limited by character level, +1 Arcane Spell Power, not limited by character level).

Wizard casting 5, caster level 6 (Krau Sigil +2, limited by character level, +1 Arcane Spell Power).

When you finish UM, you should have the following as a 15th level character:

Beguiler casting 8, caster level 18 (Beguiler 1, UM 7, PS 4, Krau 2, Arcane Spell Power 4)

Wizard Casting 14, caster level 19 (Wizard 4, UM 10, Krau 2 [but limited by character level], ASP 4)

You'll end up being able to cast up to 4th level Beguiler Spells and 7th level Wizard Spells. If you have Versatile Spellcaster, you can use those 4th level Beguiler spell slots to cast 5th level Wizard spells.

Easy enough to understand?

Josh the Aspie
2009-05-28, 11:38 PM
Yes, yes indeed it is. My error was in forgetting that the bonus from the Illuman's Sigil boosted to +2 when they got their second Sigil.

Josh the Aspie
2009-05-28, 11:53 PM
By the way, I'm thinking Naen for the other Sigil. +2 to Search, Disable Device, and all Knowledge Skills? Yes please!

Naenkrau doesn't look like to bad of an ability either.

I'm also thinking of going Specialist or Focused Specialist with Enchantment and Illusion (and Evocation, if Focused is allowed) banned on the other side, in order to get more spells per level, and to complement the spell list that the Beguiler gets.

To bad there isn't a feat that lets me spread my light armor ability from the Beguiler to the Wizard like there would be for spell thief. Ah well.

2009-05-29, 12:19 AM
I'd ban Necromancy over Illusion, but Enchantment and Evocation are always obvious choices. You don't really need to go Focused Specialist thanks to your Beguiler spell slots. I'd probably specialize in Conjuration and get Abrupt Jaunt from PHB2.

Note that if you take two flaws, you can start out Beguiler 1/ Wizard 1/ Master Specialist 3/ UM. Take Practiced Spellcaster, Versatile Spellcaster, and Spell Focus at 1, and any metamagic feat at 3 to qualify for everything, though it would delay Able Learner to 6.

You could instead go Human, Beguiler 1/ Wizard 1/ Master Specialist 3/ Spellthief 1/ UM, get Versatile Spellcaster, Spell Focus, Able Learner, and any feat at 1 with flaws, any metamagic feat at 3, and Master Spellthief at 6. Your caster levels would always be equal, you could cast Wizard spells in light armor, and once you get a few UM levels you'll have some disproportionately high caster levels due to the dual progression. At level 16 you'll have 14th level Wizard spellcasting and 8th level Beguiler spellcasting, plus one Spellthief level puts you at a caster level of 23, plus you'd get Arcane Spell Power +4 for a caster level of 27, not even considering a Ring of Arcane Might or an Ioun Stone. I'd probably just stick to the Illumian build though, it's only one level behind on your Wizard spellcasting and gets a fairly high caster level anyway, plus you won't have someone calling shenanigans on your caster level.

Learn Greater Mage Armor and use one of your specialist spells/day to cast it with a Lesser Rod of Extend and you won't need to worry about armor. Later on you can spend two 0-level Beguiler spell slots to cast Shield, and use a 6th level Wizard spell slot (5th with Metamagic School Focus) to make it Persistent via Augmented Casting. The same works for other buffs like Swift Expeditious Retreat and Displacement. Beguiler is even proficient with Shortbows, so even if you're out of spells or it's not worth using one you have something useful to do. Get a stack of +1 Spell Storing arrows and fill them with something like Vampiric Touch, Shivering Touch, Sound Lance, or Dispel Magic, and remember that you can put a Maximized version of a 3rd level or lower spell in a Spell Storing weapon regardless of what level spell slot it took to cast, as long as it's not Heightened.

Edit: Naenkrau is indeed a good choice. Leave two Wizard spell slots open, and make sure they're of a level that you can spend to power metamagic via Augmented Casting if you need to. For example, if you have Split Ray and Quicken Spell you can leave a 2nd and 4th level spell slot open, then if you have to you can still spend them to use those metamagic feats on a Beguiler spell.

2009-05-29, 10:58 AM
...though it would delay Able Learner to 6.BZZT! Able Learner is available at first level only, unfortunately.

2009-05-29, 01:22 PM
BZZT! Able Learner is available at first level only, unfortunately.

That's right, I knew I was missing something about that but I didn't want to get the book out.

2009-05-29, 03:22 PM
I'd ban Necromancy over Illusion, but Enchantment and Evocation are always obvious choices.

Why wouldn't a Beguiler hybrid ban illusion on the Wizard side? It seems like a no-brainer to me...

2009-05-29, 03:33 PM
Why wouldn't a Beguiler hybrid ban illusion on the Wizard side? It seems like a no-brainer to me...

You'll only get 4th level Beguiler spells, 5th with Versatile Spellcaster. Beguilers don't even get (Greater) Shadow Evocation, and you'd also miss out on Superior Invisibility. Illusion is a better school for a Wizard to have than Evocation, and arguably better than Necromancy considering those spells. He doesn't really need to go Focused Specialist anyway, but if he does he'd probably be better off keeping Illusion.

Josh the Aspie
2009-05-29, 09:29 PM
And unfortunately, the flexible learning is a class feature separate from spellcasting. >.<