An Artificer-esque Class [4E]

[Inkyrius]

Hello forumites! I was kicking around new class ideas for my homebrew setting earlier, and had a brainstorm: An Artificer-esque class, that has aspects of an enchanter and the Engineering skill from WoW. I'm not sure if/how it would work though. I'm not good at designing classes however, so I was looking for a bit of help. I have a bit of an overview, however, and hopefully people can expand/improve on it.

Arcane Engineer (tentative name)


Role: Leader: You use your arcane powers and knowledge of items to improve you and your allies abilities, while hindering your enemies'
Power Source: Arcane. You are learned in Arcane magics and make use of that knowledge to improve your gear, and make alchemical solutions.
Key Abilieties: Intelligence and Constitution

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth and Leather
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple Melee, Military Melee, and Simple Ranged
Implements: Orbs, Wands, Rods, and Staffs
Bonus to Defense: +2 Will
Hitpoints At 1st Level: 10 +Constitution Score
Hitpoints Per Level Gained: 5
Healing Surges Per Day: 6 +Constitution Modifier

Trained Skills: Arcana. From the class skills list below, choose 4 more trained skills at first level. Class Skills: Arcana(Int), Diplomacy(Cha), Dungeoneering(Wis), History(Int), Religion(Int)

Build Options: ??? None as of yet.
Class Features: Ritual Casting, ?(Not sure about other suitable ones)?


So, anyone have any comments or ideas?

[Inkyrius]

No one has any comments on it? :smallfrown: Now I'm sad; this just ruined my whole day.

[Gralamin]

Your to impatient

This is quite like the Artificer coming in Player's guide to Eberron. You have to many implements there, especially since you don't have any class features yet. In addition so far you've basically displayed well Nothing. This block gives no really useful information.

[Inkyrius]

Your to impatient

This is quite like the Artificer coming in Player's guide to Eberron. You have to many implements there, especially since you don't have any class features yet. In addition so far you've basically displayed well Nothing. This block gives no really useful information.

:smallmad: While I don't mind constructive criticism, that was just rude; There are several things you said that made me particularly peeved; A-It says it right in the title! It's supposed to be similar to the Artificer, but I asked if people could help me expand on that. B - Again, I said it; There are no features because I am not good at making classes, another reason I asked for help :smallannoyed:. And, finally, C - Yes, I know there is little, another reason for me asking for a little help.

A little advice; when someone asks for help, don't insult them and then be completely assinine.

[DracoDei]

Here is my attempt at personal understanding... I am low on sleep, and my understanding of interpersonal matters is limited, even at the best of times. What I do consider that I have is a level head.

The way you phrased it implies you want critique. There is apparently too little there TO critique. Thus you want someone to do most/all of it for you? That is acceptable, but your formatting does not imply that is what you are looking for. Ergo the confusion.

[Inkyrius]

Dracodei, I appreciate the way you courteously worded that, and no, I would not like someone to do all of it(that'd be no fun), I was just asking for ideas/help with some features, other details, fluff, that kind of stuff. Had Gralamin not been so rude in his post, I wouldn't have been harsh in return. Had he simply stated that there was not enough to work with NICELY, I could have attempted to add some more. But, as I've said, I'm not so good with classes/features/etc.

[RTGoodman]

Alright, to begin with, you're gonna have to tell us how it's different enough from the Artificer to merit having a whole new class. What's it's shtick? What is supposed to DO?

Personally, I don't have any idea what the Engineering skill from WoW is, so I can't offer advice, but here's an idea - could you instead take the Artificer and just make this a different build option? Or maybe a Paragon Path?

[Xallace]

From what little I know about WoW, the Engineering skill allows one to create gadgets and sorta-autonomous machines (exploding chickens or something).

And by enchanter do you mean like the enchantment of items, or the Enchantment spell school? I assume the first, but this is a necessary distinction.

But I agree that so far there is nothing really distinguishing it from the artificer in existence. You could make it more like a... What was that... that prestige class from Faiths and Patheons. Techsmith of Gond?

Maybe have an effigy creature or other magical robot companion? Like the beast companions in Martial Power. Different powers key off of what kind of companion you have.

Uhm, I guess also give it summoning-esque powers that result from a variety of tiny (or compactable) semi-autonomous robots? I mean, if you have the big one, why not a whole bunch of smaller ones?

But speculation aside, too many implements. Narrow it down; decide on a couple that fit the class the best. How about Rods and Orbs (randomly chosen there).

Also, why are they proficient in military melee? Is this a class that wants to get up-close and personal with its enemies?

[DracoDei]

Had Gralamin not been so rude in his post
For the record, I saw no rudeness on his part.

[Xallace]

The more I think about it, the more I'd like to suggest an alternative:

Role: Controller. You conjure and create magical constructs to manage the battlefield.
Power Source: Arcane. You are learned in magical arts and use that knowledge to enhance your mechanical aptitude.
Key Abilities: Intelligence, Wisdom, Constitution.

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, Leather
Weapon Proficiencies: Simple Melee, Simple Ranged
Implements: Orbs
Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude +1 Will
Hitpoints At 1st Level: 10 +Constitution Score
Hitpoints Per Level Gained: 5
Healing Surges Per Day: 6 +Constitution Modifier

Trained Skills: Arcana. From the class skills list below, choose 4 more trained skills at first level.
Class Skills: Arcana(Int), Diplomacy(Cha), Dungeoneering(Wis), History(Int), Perception (Wis), Religion(Int), Streetwise (Cha), Thievery (Dex)

Build Options: Fortification Engineer, Tactical Assault Engineer
Class Features:


...and that's all I got so far. I'm thinking lots of Conjurations for this class.

The Fortification Engineer would focus on setting up choke points, hindering enemies mobility and use; essentially, you're a master of setting traps. This build would also have a lot of information-gathering abilities, things that the engineer can see through or use as origin points.

The Tactical Assault Engineer, I think would have more mobile conjurations. Things that move with you. You break into the front lines with your summoned Clockwork Juggernaut and set up base in the middle of your opponents. You wouldn't be a front-liner by any means, but your conjurations act a lot more as defense for yourself; magically-powered armor and the like.

[Gralamin]

Dracodei, I appreciate the way you courteously worded that, and no, I would not like someone to do all of it(that'd be no fun), I was just asking for ideas/help with some features, other details, fluff, that kind of stuff. Had Gralamin not been so rude in his post, I wouldn't have been harsh in return. Had he simply stated that there was not enough to work with NICELY, I could have attempted to add some more. But, as I've said, I'm not so good with classes/features/etc.

:smallconfused: It seems to me your overreacting a bit. You have a problem with waiting an Hour an half for a response, when sometimes things go for days without a response. You had as much implements as the Implement-focused class Wizard, so there was honestly to much, unless you we're basing it around implements. The Lack of any class features doesn't give any real idea where your trying to go with it, so its difficult to give advice. This part of the class isn't enough information to do anything with. Just because I'm concise doesn't mean I'm trying to be rude.

In addition what you want is a very very general statement, with no explanation of what it means. If someone doesn't play WoW, and happens to be interested in helping, should they have to take the time to look up what sort of things you want when you didn't explain it?

In addition, as Dracodei explained, you had it phrased as though you wanted Critique, with no amount of real information to critique.

---

Now, You don't necessarily need full written out abilities to have enough for us to work with. A list of concepts and basic strategies is enough to start homebrewing off of.

For Example:
Should they be melee fighters or ranged, or Both depending on build? What does it do that cannot already be represented by another class? Is it focused on Healing, Attack Bonuses, Action Management, Action Points, Condition Management, maneuverability or some other mechanic for its leadership abilities? Etc.

[Meek]

My main problem with this is that there's no reason to create an entirely new class where you could just make an Artificer build that does what you want, and a paragon path that further extends the topic.

The Artificer is already secondary controller, and a lot of the new classes (Monk, Sorcerer) have builds that are FAR more relevant to their secondary role than their primary role. So having an Artificer build that's primarily about control would be simpler and more compatible to the game as a whole.