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Maltore
2009-05-31, 03:27 PM
I'm currently DM'ing a level 9 game, and despite the fact that it was allowed, nobody chose to play a Tome of Battle class. I personally really like the manoeuver system, so I've decided to drop some magic items that confer a low-level manoeuver to the wearer (Novice Crown of White Ravens type).

I'm looking for suggestions for interesting manoeuvers for these items, keeping in mind that each character will probably have only one, which they'll only be able to use once per encounter. I have an Abjurant Champion, a Monk, a Rogue and a Favoured Soul of Heironeous.

Eldariel
2009-05-31, 03:49 PM
I'm currently DM'ing a level 9 game, and despite the fact that it was allowed, nobody chose to play a Tome of Battle class. I personally really like the manoeuver system, so I've decided to drop some magic items that confer a low-level manoeuver to the wearer (Novice Crown of White Ravens type).

I'm looking for suggestions for interesting manoeuvers for these items, keeping in mind that each character will probably have only one, which they'll only be able to use once per encounter. I have an Abjurant Champion, a Monk, a Rogue and a Favoured Soul of Heironeous.

The big problem here is that those items require you to meet the qualifications of the maneuver to gain the use of it, so they can't really gain benefit of any of the maneuvers with prerequisites. Wall of Blades (Iron Heart 2) is pretty good, as are any of the Shadow Hand teleports.

Counter Charge from Setting Sun, and Stone Bones from Stone Dragon are both kinda nice too. Then the White Raven ones, Leading the Attack and Douse the Flames are both really handy. Also, Foehammer [Devoted Spirit]. And of course, the Diamond Mind save maneuvers for anyone with Concentration.

Most of the low-level strikes become obsolete (or extremely situational, such as with Douse the Flames; still handy to have, but you'll rarely want to use it) once iteratives kick in though.


If specifically tailoring for the characters, I'd give the following:
-Cloak of Deception for the Rogue
-Burning Blade for the Monk
-No idea for Favored Soul; saves are pretty worthless as Favored Soul is all-high progression and the class is somewhat martial so he'll have iteratives; any boost would do, really though.
-Wall of Blades seems handy for Abjurant Champion unless he has nuts AC thanks to the class features.

Oh, if there're any Shield-users, give 'em Shield Block.

SurlySeraph
2009-05-31, 03:52 PM
Abj Champ: He'll probably have great concentration, so Ruby Nightmare Blade.
Monk: Pouncing Strike, maybe?
Rogue: I'd say Assassin's Stance, but something higher level would be better. Maybe Bloodletting Strike or Shadow Stride.
Favored Soul: Radiant Charge

EDIT: Oh wait, I forgot about the prereqs. Never mind, unless you want to fiat them away.

lsfreak
2009-05-31, 03:56 PM
Off the top of my head, the Diamond Mind maneuvers that replace Concentration for Reflex/Fort saves are always good for caster-types. Cloak of Deception for the rogue.

Keep in mind that as written they need to have the right initiator level and the number of prerequisites to use them.

EDIT: Also, stances. FAQ rules them unavailable, RAW is unclear because sometimes stances are considered as maneuvers and sometimes they're not. If stances are available, Child of Shadows, Punishing Stance, and Martial Spirit are great no-prereq stances.

Maltore
2009-05-31, 04:10 PM
My idea for the higher-level manoeuvers that require you to have "at least X manoeuvers of the same discipline", is to upgrade the items with them later. For example, they'd find their item with one manoeuver now, then in a few levels I'd add a second one and so on. I do this with regular magic items too, for example their flaming sword becomes a flaming burst sword over time.

I think I'm going to treat stances as if they were manoeuvers for this, there are some really great ones.

Edit: Oh, yes, Mind over Body is a great suggestion for the Abjurant Champion. His fortitude really, really sucks.

Dacia Brabant
2009-05-31, 08:27 PM
Distracting Ember would also be a good choice for the Rogue to get a guaranteed flank, and can't be foiled by the sorts of things that invisibility (Cloak of Deception) can be.

Wolf Fang Strike is huge for a dual-wielder if you have one, to get that off-hand attack in the same round as taking a move action. Steel Wind will do the same (although only vs. two opponents) and you don't even need to dual-wield.

Burning Brand is good for any melee fighter but even better for someone who already has reach, but then it is fire damage so YMMV.

Crusader's Strike is free (if minor) in-combat healing without wasting an attack, which might be handy in that party.

But even if RAW is unclear on the matter, I'd advise against giving a stance on the novice-level items: for 3,000 gp, an always-on ability that could give a 20% miss chance, +1d6 untyped damage or heal 2 hp on each attack, 5/10/15 or more Fire Resistance, or ignore all penalties for difficult terrain, well that seems way too cheap. Maybe give them a stance from it only when the item upgrades to the next level if you're going that route.

Darrin
2009-06-01, 12:15 PM
Best 1st through 3rd manevuers without prereqs by discipline:

(Note: all of these work with the heroics spell as well.)

Desert Wind
Burning Blade (1) - Swift action to add some fire damage to all your attacks for a round. And it stays useful because the damage scales up as your IL increases. Also, if everybody and their dog is suddenly resistant/immune to fire damage, buy some Gloves of Energy Transformation (MIC, 1000 GP) to switch the damage to something else 3/day.

Edit: Whoops. Boost + Gloves won't work, two swift actions.

Distracting Ember (1) - Swift action for a free flanking buddy. Good choice for a rogue-type.

Wind Stride (1) - Swift action for +10' speed. Good for those "Dagnabbit, if he was only 10' closer I could charge him!" moments.

Burning Brand (2) - Nice for one of those "Hah, I'm just outside his reach!" surprises. Also, since it converts all your weapon damage into energy damage, a good way to bypass DR. If fire resistance/immunity is still a problem, see note about Gloves of Energy Transformation above.

Death Mark (3) - An area effect, and well, seriously... who doesn't like watching their opponents explode in a ball of fire? Yeah, ok, it's fire damage, but great for taking out or softening up large numbers of low HD mooks. If you can't find anything big enough, have a spellmonkey cast SMIII for a huge centipide and a 30' burst. However, expect some headaches trying to figure out where the burst originates, since the wording isn't very clear.

Devoted Spirit
Crusader's Strike (1) - The ability to inflict damage and heal with the same action is what makes Crusaders some of the toughest tanks in the game.

Foehammer (2) - Ok, not quite an all-purpose swiss-army can-opener like Mountain Hammer, but an excellent way to ignore DR.

Diamond Mind
Hmm. A bit of a problem here... the only PCs with ranks in Concentration should be spellcasters, which should already have good Will saves. They also should not be getting anywhere near making a melee attack, so the strikes should probably be avoided. However, most spellcasters have lousy Ref and Fort saves, so:

Action Before Thought (2) - Concentration check instead of a Ref save.

Mind Over Body (3) - Concentration check instead of a Fort save.

Iron Heart
Steel Wind (1) - Standard action to attack two opponents. For most melee types, stays useful up until ECL 6. Even after that, there's no penalty on that second Steel Wind attack.

Disarming Strike (2) - Much better than wasting a feat on Improved Disarm.

Wall of Blades (2) - Immediate action to replace your AC with an attack roll. Gets even better as you level up, since your attack bonus scales up a heckuva lot faster than your AC.

Setting Sun
Counter Charge (1) - Eff you, Mr. PA-Shock Trooper-Leap Attacking Uber-charger! Also, really really useful if they're dumb enough to charge you while standing next to a cliff or pool of lava.

Mighty Throw (1) - Does everything Improved Trip does except the free attack.

Clever Positioning (2) - Handy way to set up flanking opportunities, break up formations, or isolate an opponent for ganking. Also a good way to introduce your opponent to the "I can fly over pits but you can't" trick.

Shadow Hand
Shadow Blade Technique (1) - Two chances to roll a crit, and possibly 1d6 cold damage (energy damage bypasses DR).

Cloak of Deception (2) - You are a Ninja for 1 round! If you can't find something interesting to do with greater invisibility for a round... just tear up your sheet, go away, we don't even know you.

Shadow Jaunt (2) - 50' shadow jump, unlimited uses. Get out of grapple/entangle/most jails free card. Also works in an AMF.

Shadow Noose (3) - Ranged touch attack (pretty rare for ToB), 5d6 damage, and a chance to render your target flat-footed. Also, perfect opportunity to give props to your favorite Sith Lord with the mandatory "I find your lack of faith... disturbing" quote.

Stone Dragon
Mountain Hammer (2) - Bypasses DR and hardness, and if that isn't useful enough, +2d6 bonus damage. Makes sundering a snap, and given enough time, you can re-landscape entire dungeons. That stone wall giving you dirty looks? Turn it into gravel. Locked adamantine doors? Scrap metal (with a rather high resale value). Sort of like having shatter at-will.

Tiger Claw
Wolf Fang Strike (1) - TWF as a standard attack, but it looks like you don't even need the TWF feat (although you can pick that up easily enough with Gloves of the Balanced Hand, MIC 8000 GP). The -2 penalty may supercede the usual TWF penalties, and the maneuver makes no mention of one or both weapons need to be light or if the off-hand attack gets only 1/2 strength bonus. If you don't have a weapon for both hands, will also work with a double-weapon such as a staff.

White Raven
Douse the Flames (1) - Good battlefield control tool to help the party rogue get behind an opponent or get the squishy spellcaster out of a dangerous position.

Leading the Attack (1) - "Tag! You're It!" Everything goes down quicker when the entire party attacks the same creature, and this strike lets even the "Yeah, melee isn't really my thing" members of the party get in on the fun.


Something else you might want to keep in mind... you may be able to use these items to qualify for another maneuver that requires one maneuver as a prereq. For example, you can pick up Sudden Leap, Iron Heart Surge, or White Raven Tactics by picking up one of these items and then taking Martial Study (or getting heroics cast on you). If you lose or take off the item later, you don't lose your maneuvers because you no longer have the prereqs.

Draz74
2009-06-01, 05:16 PM
Good guide Darrin; but ...

Also, if everybody and their dog is suddenly resistant/immune to fire damage, buy some Gloves of Energy Transformation (MIC, 1000 GP) to switch the damage to something else 3/day.

Only helps if you have some way to get 2 swift actions in a round. :smallsigh:

Waspinator
2009-06-01, 07:27 PM
Personally, I think this homebrew is pretty awesome:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5580531