View Full Version : Kobold Sorcerer / Wizard / Ultimate Magus

Josh the Aspie
2009-05-31, 06:18 PM
Hey all.

I have been invited to a 3.5 D&D campaign, and have permision to play a Kobold Sorcerer / Wizard / Ultimate Magus (the Nix was put on the Illuman beguiler idea).

I am planning on using the info for the ehanced Kobold available on the Wizard website (if I can find it again).

I'm also looking at taking some draconic heratige feats from the Races of the Dragon (including, potentially, Draconic Power).

Any suggestions on what draconic bloodline to go with? I want to make sure I go with a good aligned dragon.

I am also strongly considering going with Specialist on the Wizard side. What book does the conjurer's abrupt teleport come from?

Flaws and Talents are not allowed.

Available Material is Core, Complete, Races, Spell Compendium, MIC, and ToB, so long as everything is Greyhawk related (no Red Mage of They, for example).

Pointbuy is 28.

Does anyone have any further advice for the build?

Sinfire Titan
2009-05-31, 06:28 PM
Grab Dragonwrought, and see if your DM agrees about you qualifying for Loredrake (Dragons of Eberron). If he does, great, use it. If not, no big deal, ditch Dragonwrought (or keep it, and be Old and not take Str/Dex/Con penalties).

If he does allow Loredrake shenanigans (which you technically qualify for thanks to a few passages in the Draconomicon and Races of the Dragon), don't take Sorcerer levels. Go Wizard 5/War-Weaver 1/Ultimate Magus 10/War-Weaver+4, and take Practiced Spellcaster as your 6th level feat (applying it to your Sorcerer casting from Loredrake). Also, boost your Sorcerer CL with the Dragonic Rites, so you can get the full benefits from Ultimate Magus to apply to your Wizard side.

You end up with 19th level Wizard casting and 8th level Sorcerer casting that way. Take Focused Specialist, and have your Sorcerer side for metamagic/buffing your allies, while your Wizard side plays GOD (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=394.0).

Edit: Dragons of Eberron is a no go, then. Use a similar build, but go Sor 1/Wiz 4/War-Weaver 5/ Ultimate Magus 10 instead, and still take Practiced Spellcaster at 6th level (or 3rd level). Judicious use of Chain Spell, Twin Spell, and Quicken Spell+Eldritch Tapestry = Party loves you.

2009-05-31, 08:04 PM
I'll second Sinfire Titan's suggestion on taking Dragonwrought (from Races of the Dragon) and being Old, if not Venerable (though in this case, you absolutely must have a metallic dragon heritage, if you do not plan on dying after a few years in game due to age).

The Kobold web enhancement is located here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a), and you should argue that it should be allowed since it's a web enhancement for Races of the Dragon.

If you're going the Draconic Heritage line of feats, why not focus on Sorc instead of Wizard (I know, I know, it's unoptimal, but hey, you get cool flavour!). I don't know if you're married to the idea of UM or not, but Dragonheart Mage is a PrC from RoTD that grants bonus Draconic Heritage feats (4 feats in 10 levels, 1 is Draconic Breath) and increases your Draconic Breath damage. If you decide to go Dragonheart Mage, see if you can get your DM to allow the spell Magic of the Dragonheart from Dragon Magic (its spell level is counted as 1/2 your caster level for purposes of Draconic feats, which can get pretty silly when used in conjunction with Draconic Breath and some other breath-enhancing spells from Spell Compendium).

If you only plan on going Sorc 1/Wiz 4/UM 10, with PS (Sorc) then ignore the Draconic Heritage line altogether, since you'll be starving for feats. You need Dragonwrought at level 1 and Draconic reservoir (from the web enhancement) at level 3. This leaves you with only 4 feats left, maybe even less if you plan on burning 2 slots on Draconic Heritage and Draconic Power (which I must admit is pretty handy, what with the +1 to caster level). If you plan on taking Draconic Heritage feats anyways, you should seriously consider Draconic Breath and Magic of the Dragonheart shenanigans (I don't think Magic of the Dragonheart cares which class your CL is from you could use Wizard spell slots to power it and achieve some ridiculous CLs)

The Abrupt Jaunt Conjurer variant is from the Unearthed Arcana, which is considered Core by most, if not all circles (it's in the SRD). PHB II, p70, as Sinfire Titan so eloquently put it.

Anyways, that's all I have for now. AFB atm

Sinfire Titan
2009-05-31, 08:48 PM
The Abrupt Jaunt Conjurer variant is from the Unearthed Arcana, which is considered Core by most, if not all circles (it's in the SRD).

Anyways, that's all I have for now. AFB atm

Abrupt Jaunt is PH2!

Get. It. Right. People.

I've seen people say Complete Mage, CArc, Magic of Eberron, and even CAdv and CS. It's PH2!

2009-05-31, 10:52 PM
And so it is. I understand your anger, and have corrected the mistake. Please keep text size down to normal. It's quite distracting. :smallannoyed:

PHB II, p 70 is where the ability is located.

Sinfire Titan
2009-05-31, 11:10 PM
And so it is. I understand your anger, and have corrected the mistake. Please keep text size down to normal. It's quite distracting. :smallannoyed:

PHB II, p 70 is where the ability is located.

Its more fun when everything's bigger though.

2009-06-01, 02:16 AM
Its more fun when everything's bigger though.

That's what she said...sorry, I have a filthy mind :smallwink:

What level build are we looking at here? I'm assuming at least 6 so as to be able to have at least 1 level of UM, but it's a detail that could be useful.

Doc Roc
2009-06-01, 02:30 AM
We maded you a thing. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1184568)

2009-06-01, 02:48 AM
Assuming you start out Sorcerer 1/ Wizard 4/ Ultimate Magus 10, with Practiced Spellcaster: Sorcerer at 1 or 3 and the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) after gaining level 6, your UM spellcasting should go as follows:

Sorcerer 1/ Wizard 4, adding UM 1: Sorcerer caster level is 5, Wizard caster level is 4, UM spellcasting goes to Wizard.

Sorcerer 1/ Wizard 4/ UM 3, adding UM 4: Sorcerer caster level is 9, Wizard caster level is 8, UM spellcasting goes to Wizard.

Sorcerer 1/ Wizard 4/ UM 6, adding UM 7: Sorcerer caster level is 12, Wizard caster level is 12, UM spellcasting goes to Wizard.

As long as you get Practiced Spellcaster at 1 or 3, and do the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage before hitting UM 4, you'll be able to put 10/10 UM spellcasting toward Wizard. You can get Practiced Spellcaster and any metamagic feat at 1 and 3, and Draconic Reservoir at 6, plus you should use the Enhanced Summoning (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#conjurerVariants) variant from UA to get Augment Summoning instead of Scribe Scroll at Wizard 1. That doesn't leave any room for Dragonwrought or Draconic Heritage, but I think the character will be stronger in the long run if you mitigate the loss of Wizard spellcasting.

You won't get 2nd level Sorcerer spells until character level 10. I'd probably just get buffs and utility spells and maybe a few good low level no-saves. Stick to using your Sorcerer spell slots to add metamagic to your Wizard spells, Extend Spell, Sculpt Spell, and Split Ray are good choices, you can get Extend or Sculpt at 1 or 3 and take Split Ray at UM 5 when you get 2nd level Sorcerer spells. Get Ray of Enfeeblement with Sorcerer, and use Ray of Exhaustion and Enervation from Wizard. Ray of Dizziness and Ray of Light are also good, but if you specialize you'll probably ban both of those schools. Residual Magic in Complete Mage would also be a good choice if you use a lot of metamagic.

Josh the Aspie
2009-06-01, 10:44 AM
We're starting at level 10.

The Kobold Web Enhancement is Specifically allowed.

Also, I'm considering taking the Dragonblooded Sorcerer substitution level from races of the Dragon, giving up my 1 level of sorcerer familiar progression for the dragon-heritage feat. Combined with getting abrupt jaunt, and the obtain familiar feat later on in his career, I don't think that would hurt too much. (I'm thinking of getting the weasel companion for +2 to reflex, and character flavor, or maybe a draconic familiar with the right feat).

Unfortunately, In order to get 10/10 wizard progression, and on-time entrance to UM, I need to spend my 2 feats on Practiced Spellcaster, and a Metamagic Feat. My DM said no flaws, which really hurts what I was going for.

My original concept was for a dragonwrought kobold of a metalic dragon (I was origonaly thinking gold or silver) that was found by a group of adventurers. The Gnome was all for smashing the eggs, but the Human wizard managed to claim the one dragon-wrought egg as a part of his treasure, imagining a grand experiment to see if a Kobold could be raised to be good, and what the draconic heritage would mean for a wizard.

He was raised as a wizard, but eventually became incredibly curious about his people, and his heritage, so he sought out his tribe. He was welcomed back with joy. He learned of his draconic and sorcerical heritage, the ways of the clan, and what it meant to be a Kobold. He finally truly had the sense of belonging he so desired, he finally understood his urges, finally! But... many things did not sit well with him. His up-bringing left him ill-prepared for the way that Kobolds saw sexual relations. He cringed at the fierce vengeance that cried out in every Kobold hall against the Gnomes. He had no time at all to himself, and was expected to subsume himself to the tribe in order for his successes to mean anything at all... and further... any time at all that he sat down to study his spell book, he was mocked, poked, prodded, called lazy, and asked why he could not follow the ways of the sorcerer properly.

Eventually, he had more rolling around in his gullet than he could take. He thanked the All-watcher, but told him that he could not remain... and thus was cast out (thus explaining why he is still adventuring).

Since then, my character would have been struggling with the false dichotomy of his Wizardly and Sorcerical paths... until he eventually found a way to merge them.

>.< Unfortunately, no flaws are allowed and she decided not to use the rule that other DMs in the campaign used where you could get an extra feat for background. I may talk to her about the character concept and WHY I want the flaws for those feats.

Josh the Aspie
2009-06-01, 11:05 AM
Thank you all again for all of your help thus far. It really is appreciated.

Josh the Aspie
2009-06-01, 08:37 PM
Well, unless I can convince my DM to let me take dragonwrought as a bonus feat in exchange for a flaw for character reasons, I'll have to do without. It'll make the back story harder to come up with. I really do need the other two feats just to get into the build and make it work right. >.<

I was just looking over the Dragonborn, and was wondering if people thought that would be a good option... to be a dragonborn kobold of Bahamut. I could certainly envision the point at which the Platinum dragon would have approached him in his life before the campaign, and it could easily make sense for the character... and I could see him saying either yes or no to the calling.

2009-06-01, 08:55 PM
Well, unless I can convince my DM to let me take dragonwrought as a bonus feat in exchange for a flaw for character reasons, I'll have to do without. It'll make the back story harder to come up with. I really do need the other two feats just to get into the build and make it work right. >.<

I was just looking over the Dragonborn, and was wondering if people thought that would be a good option... to be a dragonborn kobold of Bahamut. I could certainly envision the point at which the Platinum dragon would have approached him in his life before the campaign, and it could easily make sense for the character... and I could see him saying either yes or no to the calling.

Dragonborn is an iffy choice for some...it works best for creatures with high stat modifiers but little else because they lose practically everything except their stat mods. So a Dragonborn Kobold loses his natural attacks, natural armour, darkvision, racial bonus to skills, etc. in place of gaining the Dragonborn qualities, but still retains that -4 Str, -2 Con and +2 Dex and then gets +2 Con and -2 Dex from Dragonborn, ending up with just -4 Str, Small Size (and Slight Build if you're using that variant) and the DB features. Not exactly the best racial modifiers I've seen...

Josh the Aspie
2009-06-01, 10:05 PM
Oh, I completely understand. And I'd MUCH rather get Dragonwrought, as it changes you into a dragon. Unfortunately, unless I can talk my DM into feats, I either need to give that up, or go with a far less effective build.

And saying "no" to the call makes more sense with the character motivation... he doesn't want to spend his life fighting his kin... even with how short the life of a kobold is, he would much rather spend that short time redeeming his kin, than spend a much longer time killing them.

A foolish one, perhaps, but I am sure it is one that Paladine could respect IC.

Josh the Aspie
2009-06-01, 11:53 PM
In addition to the Dragonblooded Sorcerer Racial Substitution level, I am also considering the metamagic specialist from PHB2, which would be a great boon, and gives me a feat that otherwise could not be gained until higher levels.

2009-06-01, 11:57 PM
In addition to the Dragonblooded Sorcerer Racial Substitution level, I am also considering the metamagic specialist from PHB2, which would be a great boon, and gives me a feat that otherwise could not be gained until higher levels.

With the high intelligence and metamagic focus implied by Ultimate Magus, this should be a given. Until level 9 anyway, at which point you may want to retrain the ACF and take CM's Rapid Metamagic feat.

Josh the Aspie
2009-06-02, 12:26 AM
Well yes, I'm obviously taking either the Metamagic Specialist -or- the Dragonblood Caster substitution level... but which to take... which to take... I can only take one or the other, since they both have me give up the same class feature to gain the new one. I take it you mean Metamagic Specialist?

Also, my planned level 9 feat is Versatile Spellcaster, which would let me give up lower level spell slots to cast any known spell of one level higher... with... nothing saying I can't give up sorcerer or wizard spells for wizard spells known... which opens up even more arcane flexibility. :smallcool:

Unfortunately, if I take that, it precludes entry to Archmage at level 16.

If I can't talk my DM into allowing flaws, the following is my planned build.
01 - Wizard 1 - Specialist (Either Conjuration, or Transmutation) - Immediate Magic class ability - Metamagic Feat
02 - Wizard 2
03 - Sorcerer 1 - One of the abilities listed above - Practiced Spellcaster (Sorcerer)
04 - Wizard 3
05 - Wizard 4
06 - UM 1 (taking wizard for casting) - Draconic Reserve
07 - UM 2
08 - UM 3
09 - UM 4 (taking wizard for casting) - Versatile Spellcaster
10 - UM 5 - Bonus MM

If I can, then I would also take Dragonwrought, and Spell Focus (chosen school) at first level, then enter the Master Specialist Prestige class at level 5, to get the skill focus necessary to get into Archmage, thus leaving open 1 of my 2 feats at levels 12, and 15.

2009-06-02, 12:45 AM
After your 10th UM level, take a 5th Wizard level for the Spontaneous Divination variant from Complete Champion. If you manage to get into Master Specialist before UM, just take more of that at levels 16-20. Archmage isn't really worth more than three levels, and spending three feats on your way into it probably isn't worth the trouble. Maybe even say that before your current level you visited the Frog God's Fane detailed in Complete Scoundrel, to get the feat Skill Focus: Knowledge: Religion for 2,000 gp instead of having to spend a feat on it, and jump into Divine Oracle after UM 10.

Josh the Aspie
2009-06-02, 08:48 AM
I really like the ability to get reach on all my touch spells without spending another spell, or having to use metamagic to raise the spell level... it's really rather potent.

And I'd agree that strait up spending the 3 feats probably isn't the best option... but if I can pick up one or more for free, entry into the class becomes far far easier.

Divine Oracle is definitely an interesting option, though.

Josh the Aspie
2009-06-11, 09:28 PM
I've convinced my DM to allow me -one- flaw, and the -one- bonus feat from it.

The Flaw is Non-combatant, and the feat is Dragonwrought, which she approved by saying it'd be okay if I only did exactly what the feat says with it. Which is fine, since I wanted it mainly for RP purposes. (So no aging penalties are going on this character). I also am allowed to take the dragonblooded sorcerer prestige class, and the PHBII specialist wizard variant allowing me to ditch the 4 wizard levels of familiar for abrupt jaunt.

This means that my progression is going to be as follows.

1 - Conjurer Specialist Wizard - Metamagic (still need to pick), Dragonwrought (Gained by taking Non-Combatant, which is fixed as it was the one I brought up with the GM).
2 - Conjurer
3 - DragonBlooded Sorcerer - Draconic Heratage, Practiced Spellcaster (Sorcerer)
4 - Conjurer
5 - Conjurer
6 - Ultimate Magus (Selection: Wizard) - Draconic Reservoir
7 - Ultimate Magus
8 - Ultimate Magus
9 - Ultimate Magus (Selection: Wizard) - Either Versatile Spellcasting, or Rapid Metamagic
10 - Ultimate Magus - Bonus Metamagic, still needs selecting.

Also, I might not yet have access to the 10th level slot, and I need to talk to my DM about the scribing cost for spells for my spellbook(s).

Any and all advice is welcome, especially about advice on which metamagic-feats to take, and any spells to make particularly sure I have.

I've already decided to forbid evocation, and am debating between enchantment and necromancy for the second forbidden school.

Keld Denar
2009-06-11, 10:27 PM
Definitely ditch Enchantment. Enchantment is probably the worst school in the game. There are only a couple of good spells there, like Ray of Dizziness, which are low enough you can get them on your Sorcerer side.

I'd even consider going Focused Specialist, if I was you. Dropping Abjuration as well for it. You'll have a TON of spell slots and you can pretty much blow 3-4 spells per combat past level 5 or so. It would be awesome.

Actually, you could consider dropping Necromancy. The best Necro spells, Ray of Enfeeblement, Escalating Enfeeblement, and Ray of Exhaustion, are all low enough that you could pick them up with your sorcerous casting and still do fine.

Josh the Aspie
2009-06-12, 12:37 AM
I've already gotten a lot of variants approved, and an exception to a normal house rule. I doubt my DM would approve ANOTHER one.

The main reason I'm looking at Necro is due to the social implications that follow necromancy, and my character was raised explicitly by a good aligned wizard. Then again, my DM entirely does not hold with that view (she used to play necros all the time).

Then again, if we went with the creation of positive energy undead who were willing, and requested to be able to continue to serve after death... especially human faithful of Bahamut... dragonborn in particular.... hmmmm...

And yes, my character explicitly had the choice at the calling, and took a third option. ^_^

Any suggestions on meta-magic? I only currently have up to 5th level spells on the wizard side (4th if I only get up to level 9), so I'm not sure I'm quite ready to burn those slots for quickened spell slots. I also only get up to 2nd (1st if level 9) level spell slots on my sorcerer side.

I'm thinking that Heighten spell would make a whole lot of sense as my introductory one, as it is one of the few actually available at first level, is incredibly flexible, and can scale any spell I have to any slot I can cast, and can use up any spell slot I have to power the spell power up. "Cast a 4th level spell as a Ninth at character level 10? Why yes, I CAN do that."

I'm just not used to using metamagic, so I'm not sure when it would be all that advantageous.

Josh the Aspie
2009-06-12, 12:43 AM
Oh! And lest I forget, I still need to choose his draconic heratige. Metalic, definitely.

I'm currently leaning towards Gold, or Silver, since they are my favorite.

I've also flirted with the idea of some of the psionic gem dragons, but that wouldn't really fit the draconic magic theme.

Josh the Aspie
2009-06-12, 01:07 AM
Pointbuy is currently looking like (before racial modifiers):

Str: 8 - 0
Dex: 14 - 6
Con: 14 - 6
Int: 16 - 10
Wis: 8 - 0
Cha: 14 - 6

28 points total.

Josh the Aspie
2009-06-12, 02:05 AM
Ug. Nix the attribute combo seen above. When I get to UM 10, I'll have 5th level sorcerer slots, so unless I'm willing to re-rout one of my stat bumps from int to cha, I'll need to start with higher Cha.

Boosting from 14 to 16 will of course require me to take a total of 4 points away from Dex, Con, or a combination of the two.

Any suggestions there?

Keld Denar
2009-06-12, 02:07 AM
My favorite metamagics to use are definitely Empower Spell, Split Ray, and Quicken Spell. Quicken for the obvious reasons. Empower because its generally the best to apply for blasting (use with Scorching Ray for big numbers), but its also really really good for use with a few utility spells like False Life and Ray of Enfeeblement. Split Ray is great, because there are quite a few decent Rays out there that are worth getting twice. Ray of Enfeeblement as already noted, can now stop 2 baddies. Ray of Exhaustion now has full effect irregardless of save. Enervation just became Energy Drain. Ray of Dizziness just shut down 2 foes. Lots of goodness there.

You'll probably also get quite a bit of mileage out of Sculpt Spell, especially at lower levels. It combines REALLY well with both Grease and Glitterdust, 2 of the best low level spells in the game.

Josh the Aspie
2009-06-12, 02:13 AM
Quicken is obvious yes, but best at later levels. I'll likely make that my second bonus metamagic feat.

I'm starting either at level 9 or 10 (need to make some calls tomorrow), so while the lower level build needs to make sense, it doesn't need to be incredibly powerful.

Due to my being a 'noncombatant' via the flaw, and my low strength, reach spell might be an option (though that one, and sculpt spell, are both easily subsumed by high Arcana if I can get into that prestige class).

Empower and split are possible options... though isn't casting a higher level damaging spell usually than casting a lower level one with empower on it?

2009-06-12, 03:52 AM
Are you attempting Pun-Pun ?

Keld Denar
2009-06-12, 04:31 AM
As far as low level spells empowered vs high level spells, it depends on your level. For example, at level 10, an Empowered Fireball will do 15d6 damage, while a Cone of Cold (also a 5th level slot) will only do 10d6. At level 15, they are equal, but then you can cast Empowered CoC instead of something else.

But the real joy of it isn't the pure damage spells. Its the spells with low values that aren't supposed to be multipled. Like Ray of Enfeeblement. 1d6+5 x1.5 str penalty is BRUTAL to most things. Especially if you can drop its str down below 13, whatever you hit loses access to Power Attack, and all PA related feats like Cleave and Shocktrooper. Thats pretty badass. Also, Enervate. A Split Ray Empowered Enervate is normally an 8th level spell. It does 3d4 negative levels (essentially). Energy Drain is a 9th level spell. It does 2d4 negative levels. See a disparagy here? MM is usually win, moreso when you are using your UM's ability to get free MM on spells. Seriously, dropping a 2nd level spell to get a free Split Ray on Enervate...thats like...STUPID good.

Thats why I say its probably not great to drop necromancy. Forget all the undead stuff and death spells. Debuffs are the new face of necromancy, and metamagic makes them do stupid stuff to people. Get it.

And Reach Spell is bad metamagic. There are almost no good offensive touch spells. Otto's is ok, but its [Mind Affecting], which is crippling, IMO. Stick to ranged touch attacks like rays, and targeted/area spells, and you really arn't missing much.

Josh the Aspie
2009-06-12, 04:29 PM
My error, I don't get 11th Level sorcerous casting out of this, I get the equivalent of 9, which gives me 4th level spells at the highest, so I could exist with a Charisma of 14, but that would be a bit weak.

I'm also going to be building the character for level 9.

This gives me access to only 2nd level sorcerer spells for now, using the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage.

Also, the DM has approved my having my wizard spells copied at 0 cost into my Book of Boccob (Blessed book, for SRD watchers).

I see your point on the power of twin ray, and empower. I'll likely take Empower for my first bonus meta-magic feat... but for my first level feat, I'd REALLY like something that only has a spell slot adjustment of +1, so that it can actually be -used- at the level I take it. It's not a feat requirement... but it should be, and it makes a lot of sense.

Any advice from anyone between gold and silver?

I like gold due to the strait up majesty, and the implied power. Fire is also often fun, and having a resistance to it is often appreciated.

Silver dragons are graceful and filled with beauty, their affinity for the air would make my character's discomfort with living in the cramped underground even more pronounced. He would also be easier to mistake for a small sized dragonborn, especially if cloaked when first met.


And no, I'm not attempting pun pun. Why would anyone actually attempt pun pun?

:P Besides, I specifically advised the DM not to allow Saruk's into the campaign setting, which she already wouldn't have, due to it being Greyhawk only.


Oh, also,

I'm going to spend at least some of my gold on powers from legendary and magical locations, such as the ougoth pit, and the Frog God's Fane.

Josh the Aspie
2009-06-12, 07:55 PM
For the 3/day spell like ability, I have two main possibilities so far.

1. A relatively short duration protective spell that applies in nearly all circumstances, such as Proection from Evil or Shield.
2. A common utility spell that retains it's utility forever, such as Unseen Servant, or Identify.

Edit: I think I've narrowed it down to Protection from Evil, and Identify, I think I'll go with Identify.

Josh the Aspie
2009-06-13, 01:36 AM
I think I'll go with a silver dragonwrought kobold bishonen, for the +2 bonus to, and class skill of disguise, plus the +1 bonus to saving throws vrs cold.

BTW. Any particularly good ideas on alter form, due to the new draconic type?

Keld Denar
2009-06-13, 01:41 AM
Dragons are Magical Beasts?

-Aranea (Shapechanger); Medium; Climb 25; +1 natural;
+2 Jump, +2 Listen, +2 Spot, +8 Climb (take 10); Bite (1d6)
-Blink Dog; Medium; +3 natural; (Bite 1d6)
-Eagle, Giant; Large; Fly 80 ft (average); +3 natural;
+4 Spot; 2 Claws (1d6) and bite (1d8); speech
-Ethereal Marauder (Extraplanar); Medium; +3 natural;
+2 Listen, +2 Move Silently, +2 Spot; Bite (1d6)
-Hippogriff; Large; 50 ft, Fly 100 ft (average); +4 natural;
+4 Spot; 2 claws (1d4) and bite (1d8)
-Hydra (5 headed); Huge; Swim 20 ft; +6 natural; +2 Spot,
+2 Listen, +8 Swim (take 10), Combat Reflexes (all heads); 5 bites (1d10)
-Krenshar; Medium; 40 ft; +3 natural; +4 Jump, +4 Move Silently, Track;
-Owl, Giant; Large; 10 ft, Fly 70 ft (average); +3 natural;
+8 Listen, +4 Spot, +8 Move Silently when flying; 2 Claws (1d6) and bite (1d8); speech
-Owlbear; Large; +5 natural; 2 claws (1d6) and bite (1d8)
-Pegasus; Large; 60 ft, fly 120 ft (average); +3 natural;
+4 Listen, +4 Spot; 2 hooves (1d6) and bite (1d4)
-Phase Spider; Large; 40 ft, climb 20 ft; +3 natural; +8 climb (take 10); bite (1d6)
-Spider Eater; Large; Fly 60 ft (good); +4 natural; +4 Listen, +4 Spot; Sting (1d8)
-Unicorn; Large; 60 ft; +6 natural; +4 Move Silently; horn (1d8) and 2 hooves (1d4)
-Worg; Medium; 50 ft; +2 natural; +1 Listen, +1 Move Silently, +1 Spot, +2 Hide; bite (1d6)

From here. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=176246)

2009-06-13, 01:46 AM
If you get Spell-Like Ability from Archmage I'd suggest getting a useful 5th level spell and take Quicken Spell-Like Ability for it as your 18th level feat. Good choices include Greater Dimension Door (SC), Indomitability (SC), Greater Blink (SC), Summon Monster/Undead V, Wall of Force, and Telekinesis.

Josh the Aspie
2009-06-13, 11:51 AM

Well, first off, Dragons are not magical beasts. Dragon is it's own type.

The spell like ability option definitely seems interesting.

Josh the Aspie
2009-06-13, 12:24 PM
Also, I'm debating between Still Spell and Silent Spell for my first level meta-magic.

Keld Denar
2009-06-13, 02:38 PM
Still is infinitely more useful. Still spells can be cast in a grapple, while silent spells can be cast while affected by a silence spell. Most of the time you can walk out of a silence spell though. You can't just waltz out of a grapple. Then again, you have Abrupt Jaunt, so you CAN. Really, I'd go with neither. Both are really circumstantial, and lend very little to combat. You don't have to be able to use a MM feat to learn it. You can take Quicken Spell just as easily at 1st level as you can at 12th. Since you are starting at 9th level, I'd just go with what you planned and leave out either of those.

Josh the Aspie
2009-06-13, 03:03 PM
Yes, but while I can learn a metamagic feat while I cannot use it, that makes no SENSE to me, so I am choosing to have my first level feat be a metamagic feat with a +1 level adjustment. I am aware of still spell, silent spell, and heighten.

Also, just as a note, silent can be used under water or when you feel the need to be stealthy (combine with greater invisibility, and bwahahahaha), and still can be used to allow for the temporary use of armor, or used when tied up, or when entangled. Still, most of the uses of still spell allow me to cast in situations where I could simply jaunt out of them.

Keld Denar
2009-06-13, 03:08 PM
Well, if you want to get technical, at 1st level, your character couldn't even use a +1 metamagic spell. And with the way you've built him, wouldn't get to use one till level 4. So your justification is kinda bunk. Don't take either feat.

Oh, and BTW, Sculpt Spell (CArcane) is also a +1, but unfortunately requires 1 othe MM feat to take. There is also Extend Spell for +1.

Josh the Aspie
2009-06-13, 03:11 PM
0 level spell -> 1st level slot solves that problem quite nicely, neh?

Extend does seem like a nice option, though.

Keld Denar
2009-06-13, 03:26 PM
Oh, and if you go scour some of the more obscure FR books, I believe there is a 5 HD dragon you could Alter Self into. Maybe like Lost Empires of Faerun or something.

Josh the Aspie
2009-06-13, 03:35 PM
Greyhawk only campaign, so that's out. Unlikely I'll be able to use any oriental dragons either.

Gem Dragons might work.

Josh the Aspie
2009-06-13, 04:10 PM
Okay, I've gotten pretty much all of my options selected, except for one of the most important... spells... and the second most, gear.

Most of the guides list some very VERY nice spells to take for both Sorcerer and Wizard, given their particular strengths and weaknesses. The biggest question is what spells to have on my Sorcerer side, and which ones to have on Wizard.

Spells that do not require saves, and remain useful in a large number of circumstances even up to higher levels are ones I'm really interested in for Sorcerer. I'll get my spell-casting up to the sorcerer equivalent of level 9 with this build, so I'll only have up to level 4 spells. My 14 charisma also means that any spell that allows saves will be far better coming out of my wizard spell list, than out of my sorcerer spell list.

Ray spells, for example, such as those that deal ability damage, look particularly tasty for the sorcerer's offense side.

Also, since I've decided to take Versatile Spellcaster for now, any rarely used low level utility spells now become viable, since if I -know- them from putting them in my wizard book, I could, for example, give up 2 sorcerer orisons to cast that 1st level utility spell.

2009-06-13, 04:13 PM
Take dragonwrought kobold. It changes your type to dragon, which makes you immune to some spells that might be cast on you. The BIG advantage is that at level 3 you can use alter self to get flight ro 30 minutes.

Josh the Aspie
2009-06-13, 04:18 PM
Dragonwrought already taken.

Also makes me immune to magical sleep and paralysis, spells that only target humanoids (charm person, and hold person, for example), and gives me low light vision.

It's also REALLY good for my backstory.

2009-06-13, 04:37 PM
For Alter Self, a Dracotaur (MM3) is a Large quadruped with a 50 ft. land speed, it may be a decent Alter Self form if you need to carry something heavy (such as your unconscious party).

I'd probably mostly stick to the form of a Wyrmling Shadow Dragon (Draconomicon): 4 HD, +7 natural armor, 80 ft. land speed, 150 ft. fly speed average maneuverability, tiny size.

Josh the Aspie
2009-06-13, 10:45 PM
Thank you very much! Those forms look quite interesting. ^_^

Josh the Aspie
2009-06-14, 03:35 PM
Well, I'm currently doing a bit of low-level item buying before I get on to my spells.

I'm definitely getting a heward's handy haversack, and a boccob's blessed book.

I'm also getting either the Sun Lenses Found in Sandstorm, page 99 (table) and 101 (description), or the Sundark Goggles found in Races of the Dragon, page page 122 (table), 123 (description).

I'm also considering getting them enchanted to make me immune to gaze attacks.

The best methods I've found for this are as follows.

1. The Blindhelm. I get +5 vrs gaze attacks, blindsense 5 ft. It costs 15,000 gold, and is on the MIC page 75).

2. A Psionic Item (hey, the glasses are crystal) that grants continuous use of Synesthate for 2000 gold. I get +4 to spot, +4 to search, immune to gaze attacks / +4 listen, my choice at any time, but face must remain uncovered. 2000 gold). I think the second is almost definitely the better option... although I -was- planning on having my character's face covered often, due to his... yaknow... being a Kobold.

The main question is if I retain immunity to gaze attacks when using Darkvision, since I'm no longer able to use my face to feel light.

Josh the Aspie
2009-06-17, 06:30 PM

The party thus far consists of the following, all either levels 9 or 10:

Half-Elven Fochlucan Lyrist (level 10) - Rogue 2 / Bard 2 / Druid 5 / FL 1 - does a bit of offense (Call lightning, etc), but mostly buffs.
Half-Orc Cleric going healing / buffs / a bit of offense

Sometimes there, sometimes not:
Warmage (gone for the summer, for work) - blasty blaster (obviously)
Healer (yes, the class) / Luck stealer (Gone for a few months, for the summer) - going healer / some buffs.
Likely Un-optimized beatstick multiclass mess

This is about all the info that I have about the group thus far.

Based on this, I'm currently thinking about doing a bit of buffing (but likely not TOO much), as well as utility spells, battle-field control, some summoning to augment our beat-down team, as well as having some offense spells (orbs, etc).

Any advice based on the above info? Refinement of existing advice?

Keld Denar
2009-06-17, 07:41 PM
Sounds like your team doesn't really have anyone consistantly present who can actually kill things. Your FL is focused on mostly buffing with a bit of blasting (it takes a lot of Call Lightnings to equal just one round with an angry barbarian), and your cleric is too (although clerics make GREAT beaters).

If I was you, I'd look into grabbing Greater Mighty Wallop from Races of the Dragon, arming your cleric with a nice great club (with spikes cast, of course), having him cast Divine Powah, and letting him be your beater. Between GMWallop and Greater Magic Weapon (or Spikes), he doesn't even have to be very good at swingin it.

Then you make it your job to deliver everything to him blinded, stunned, paralyzed, enfeebled, upside-down, and missing 2-3 levels. Divide foes with Fogs and EBTs, disable with Ray of Enfeeblement, Glitterdust, Ray of Dizziness, Slow, etc, and maybe be prepared to summon a critter or 2 to suppliment the beatings.

Standard wizard operating proceedure.

Josh the Aspie
2009-06-17, 09:10 PM
The biggest problem, as I see it, is that the two people that could reliably go the beatstick rout are the people that know the least about how to actually do anything in D&D. One of them was, until playing the cleric, playing a... thing from Tome of Magic that taps into these... energies... from elsewhere... and then forgetting to put his aspects up at the beginning of the day.

And then there is our Lyricist. She pretty much views herself as primarily a caster, and with her BAB, I can't blame her. +6 for 5 levels. Yerk (it'll get better, buuut...). She has some higher level offensive spells in addition to call lightning, but that was an example.

2009-06-17, 09:30 PM
What about Desert Kobolds (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#desertKobolds)? No con penalty.

Josh the Aspie
2009-06-17, 11:42 PM
Well. A. It's a variant, so I'd have to get specific approval, and I'm not sure how many things I can get that way...

And B. Sorcerer is no longer the favored class. Rather important for the build.

Thank you for the suggestion, though.

2009-06-18, 12:01 AM
Why are you so concerned about gaze attacks? Just cast blindsight and close your eyes.

Josh the Aspie
2009-06-18, 12:35 AM
Well for one thing, there are a fair number of them out there, and they are one of those attacks you often cannot see coming, since if you see the source of said attack, you need to make a saving throw immediately.

Also, due to my character having sensitivity to bright light, I'm getting him a pair of shades, and I thought that their shielding him from gaze attacks would be thematically appropriate.

Do you have a better idea for his face slot?

Edit: And what book is Blindsight out of, BTW?

Keld Denar
2009-06-18, 12:45 AM
Most things with Gaze attacks tend to have short ranges. Medusas, Basilisks, and Umber Hulks all have 60' ranges, IIRC. That means that unless you confront them in close quarters, you should be far enough out of range that you won't have a problem. Especially being a caster and staying toward the back.

As far as face slots...I'm REALLY partial to a Third Eye: Clarity from MIC. Its a little pendant that sits on your forehead until you get in a bad spot. Then, immediate action clears you from a few of the nastiest of nasty conditions like Stunned. At 2000g, its a real steal, so buy 2-3 of them and swap them out between encounters if you end up having to use one. Totally worth it.

Josh the Aspie
2009-06-18, 12:51 AM
Well we -are- doing a dungeon crawl, so it's likely that anything we run into with a gaze attack is going to be relatively close to us.

The third eyes sound interesting, though.

Josh the Aspie
2009-06-25, 11:32 PM
Okay, I'm looking at the robe of Mysterious Conjuration. 3/day I can turn a utility spell I found out I won't need into a summoning spell in an emergency, and cast said spell as a standard action, instead of as a full round action. Nice action efficiency there, and it also is very in theme.

The problem is that I was strongly considering enchanted Thistledown armor, or twilight mithril chain, and these items would take up the exact same body slot.

Of course, given my other gear (18010 gold), I can't have both the robe (10k), and a headband of intellect +4 (16k)

I've already bought my dark glasses, Boccob's blessed book, handy haversack, healing belt, and wand of lesser vigor (I have UMD).

Even if I ditch the glasses, I have to choose 1, maybe 2, of the above items I'm considering, and then have money left over to account for any mundane gear (like, say, spell component pouches).

Any advice here?

Keld Denar
2009-06-26, 12:14 AM
Circlet of Rapid Casting, from the MIC, is defintely an AMAZING item. It gives you 3 quickened 1st or 2nd level spells per day, or 1 2nd and 1 1st, or just 1 3rd. For 15,000g, thats a steal and 1/2 the price of a Lesser Rod of Quicken. It also works for your spontaneous side, unlike the Rod of Quicken. I don't make casters without one anymore.

Add it to your Headband of Int for just the difference in price, since the +stats are a basic item upgrade and the new MIC rules state that you can add basic item upgades like Stats, Deflection, Resistance, and Natural Armor to any item for the difference in price, rather than 1.5x the difference. Thats AWESOME!

Josh the Aspie
2009-06-26, 12:25 AM
Until you said 'and works for your spontaneous side" I was really not all that interested in it at all. That is a serious consideration... especially since a circlet and headband are very similar, and people often wore diadems beneath circlets... very nice in theme combination.

Unfortunately, that would bring the cost up to 19K total, which (with my 18,010) would take me to a total of 37,010. That's a little more than 1K more than I have. Even if I give up the enchantment on my glasses (which I was considering trading for the crystal eye you mentioned earlier), that leaves me with less than 1k left to buy mundane gear, scrolls, etc, and I'd have no gold around for any kind of protective items at all.