View Full Version : Master of the unseen hand

2009-05-31, 06:25 PM
Master of the unseen hand does not add to your over all CL, but it does add its class level to CL for purposes of using telekinesis.

my question is:

If you take the feat "practiced spell caster" (CA) and +4 to your CL (but not beyond your HD) for purposes of all spells. What will your CL for Telekinesis be? Does Improved Caster Level ability of the Master of the Unseen Hand stack with "Practiced Spell Caster"?


LVL 14
9 Wizard
5 Master of the Unseen Hand

feats: included "practiced spell caster"

telekinesis would have a CL of 18? or only 14?

The Glyphstone
2009-05-31, 06:30 PM
You apply bonuses in the order that would be most beneficial to you, so It'd be

9 (base)
+4 PC, for an effective overall CL of 13.
+5 for MotUH for Telekinesis specifically. Total of 18 for TK, 13 for all other spells, and you'd only have 5th level spells to use.

negativity 101
2009-05-31, 07:00 PM
Since the "Practiced spellcaster" feat allows you add up to +4 to your CL, but not beyond your HD, I believe you apply the extra CL from Practiced Spellcaster last, so it comes to something like this:

9 (Base)
+5 (MotUH, telekinesis) for an effective CL of 14 when casting telekinesis spells, since your HD is 14, The PS feat doesn't add an bonus.
+4 (PS) to all other spells, for an effective CL of 13 when casting a spell that differs from telekinesis.

To recap, since the PS feat won't allow you to exceed your HD, then it won't do anything for the CL of your telekinesis spells which is already 14 (just like your HD, see how easy this is). On the other hand, since your CL for all other spells is 9, it helps by adding +4 to that, seeing as your CL is below your HD, and effectively raises your CL to 13.

This is how I would rule it, both if I was the DM or the player, because it is clearly not intended to allow a lvl. 14 character to have an effective caster level (CL) of 18.

And if we go down the dark and (che)easy road of applying bonusses in the way most beneficial to you, what is to stop you from one day, with horror realizing that you have indeed created Pun-pun subconsciously in a friendly game of chess!! (or creating a wizard, who applies the "Practiced Spellcaster" feat, before his CL derived from his class... the other thing just sounded more dramatic:mitd:)

2009-05-31, 07:24 PM
1) The rules actually say that about bonuses.

However, the point is, Improved Caster Level is different from an actual CL.

You are a level 9 Wizard. Your CL is 9. You have Practiced Spellcaster. Your CL is now 13.

Now, when you cast most spells, CL 13.

When you cast Telekinesis on the other hand, your levels in Unseen Hand are added as a bonus to your CL. Your CL is 13. You then receive a bonus of +5.

The point is that Practiced Spellcaster is not a bonus, it is a modification. Bonuses are added on top of this.

2009-06-01, 01:15 PM
so its 2:1 in favor of the cheesy interpretation of the rules.

:smallbiggrin: niiiice

2009-06-01, 01:18 PM
so its 2:1 in favor of the cheesy interpretation of the rules.

:smallbiggrin: niiiice

I, uh, am not sure anything involved Master of the Unseen Hand can be considered "cheesy." :smallconfused: Practiced Spellcaster just helps you from COMPLETELY sucking at non-telekinesis spells.