[3,5] Ninja Wizard Build

[J.Gellert]

I've been playing around with builds for a while and I am finally approaching the end of this quest... The goal being to create a wizard with skills to spare, monk abilities, and spontaneous casting*.

I have three very similar builds but I cannot decide which is superior...

1. Monk 2 / Wizard 3 / Enlightened Fist 1 / Unseen Seer 2 / Master of the East Wind 2 / Hathran 1 / Abjurant Champion 3 / Master of the East Wind +6

Caster level 17, Evasion, Deflect Arrows, +10ft base speed over the other builds

2. Monk 1 / Human Paragon 1 / Wizard 1 / Human Paragon +2 / Enlightened Fist 1 / Unseen Seer 2 / Master of the East Wind 2 / Hathran 1 / Abjurant Champion 3 / Master of the East Wind +6

Caster level 17, +2 to one ability score, bonus feat, saves another feat because he gets the Martial Proficiency required for Abjurant Champion

3. Monk 1 / Wizard 4 / Enlightened Fist 1 / Unseen Seer 2 / Master of the East Wind 2 / Hathran 1 / Abjurant Champion 3 / Master of the East Wind +6

Caster level 18, but no other bonus

In any case, this needs... Able Learner, Carmendine Monk, Combat Casting, Ethran, Leadership, and Proficiency with one martial weapon.

It's likely that the added caster level trumps evasion or the bonus feats... But on the other hand, the +2 Int from the Human Paragon repays some of the lost spell slots - and Practiced Spellcaster doesn't care if you lose 2 or 3 caster levels. I always end up starving for feats anyway (getting 2 flaws with this character).

Which one should I roll? Also, if you can think of obscure alternative features or feats that help this, please let me know.


* After toying around for a long time with Nexus Method, Uncanny Forethought, and the Magelord, I was pointed to the Hathran... campaign specific? Maybe, but if I can throw spell preparation out of the window then I'll reflavor the fluff.

[Jack_Simth]

Check out Kung-Fu Genius from Dragon Compendium - makes all Monk abilities (most notably Wis to AC, but Stunning Fist and the like as well) key off of Intelligence, rather than Wisdom.

Part of your optimization exercise depends on what level this character is played. Are you starting at 1, are you starting at 20, or are you starting elsewhere? Monk 2 / Wizard 3 / Enlightened Fist 1 / Unseen Seer 2 / Master of the East Wind 2 / Hathran 1 / Abjurant Champion 3 / Master of the East Wind +6 is fine at 20th... but not so handy at, say, 15th, when you're casting as a Wizard-12 (and only getting sixth level spells) vs. the pure Wizard-15, who's getting 8th level spells.

If you're starting at 20th, you use Practiced Spellcaster to fix your caster level, and don't worry overly much about the loss of the high-level spell slots - they don't really affect your spell access, which is most of what you're concerned about. If you're starting at 1st, the loss of spell access is much more significant.

[Goatman_Ted]

Why Enlightened Fist 1/Unseen Seer 2 in all the builds?
Enlightened Fist level 3 is actually pretty good and it doesn't tighten your skill requirements in the same way.

Anyway, I prefer the second build. It looks the best suited for low-level play. And once you get to higher levels, you have Draconic Polymorph/Shapechange. Any other numbers you squeeze out are just pocket change.

My choice for this sort of thing would probably be something like Halfling Monk 2/Wizard 3/Enlightened Fist 5/Unseen Seer 10 for an interesting Skirmish build.

[Chronos]

Check out Kung-Fu Genius from Dragon Compendium - makes all Monk abilities (most notably Wis to AC, but Stunning Fist and the like as well) key off of Intelligence, rather than Wisdom.He already has Carmendine Monk in there, which does basically the same thing. A little more, actually, since it also lets you study each day to be treated as a higher-level monk for a few purposes.

[J.Gellert]

Why Enlightened Fist 1/Unseen Seer 2 in all the builds?
Enlightened Fist level 3 is actually pretty good and it doesn't tighten your skill requirements in the same way.

Good point. The Unseen Seer kinda stuck there from earlier variations of the character and I just didn't think about removing it. There's no point to it.


Part of your optimization exercise depends on what level this character is played. Are you starting at 1, are you starting at 20, or are you starting elsewhere? Monk 2 / Wizard 3 / Enlightened Fist 1 / Unseen Seer 2 / Master of the East Wind 2 / Hathran 1 / Abjurant Champion 3 / Master of the East Wind +6 is fine at 20th... but not so handy at, say, 15th, when you're casting as a Wizard-12 (and only getting sixth level spells) vs. the pure Wizard-15, who's getting 8th level spells.

You are right, but I am prepared to deal with it on the way... Can't have it all.


My choice for this sort of thing would probably be something like Halfling Monk 2/Wizard 3/Enlightened Fist 5/Unseen Seer 10 for an interesting Skirmish build.

No Hathran? Preposterous! :smallbiggrin: I would have done something like that at first, but Master of the East Wind (it's a Dragon magazine monk/wizard hybrid, full casting but needs Ki Strike - Magic ) gives me all I needed and it's relatively easy to qualify for it (especially if you are already going for Enlightened Fist before it).