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Garian
2009-06-01, 12:52 PM
I am always saddened by the lack of power, mostly in damage fighting types have after you get past about 4th level. At first level you can one hit KO things if you can hit them. As you progress the damage gets lower and lower compared to the increase in damage. I was hoping people had some sort of way, or build that dont suffer from this as bad.
Thanks.

RTGoodman
2009-06-01, 12:59 PM
All you need are a few feats. Power Attack is essential - you get a source of extra damage that actually gets better as you go up in level. Use a two-handed weapon, and that's a LOT more damage.

Add in Shock Trooper (and its prerequisites), and you can now take the penalty from your Armor Class instead of your attack bonus, meaning you get the same damage without losing accuracy.

From there, just take feats that improve your Power Attack. Leap Attack is a standard one, for instance. You can also do things like dip a level or so in Barbarian to get rage abilities and, using the correct Alternate Class Feature (i.e., Spirit Lion Totem from Complete Champion), the ability to make a full attack on a charge. Now, you're getting ridiculous Power Attack damage on charges, AND hitting with several attacks.

Welcome to the world of triple-digit (or more) damage.

Eldariel
2009-06-01, 01:26 PM
Indeed, the start is Power Attack. Also, getting some form of Pounce really increases your damage output for the opener in combat; easiest is taking a level of Barbarian and using the Spirit Lion Totem Substitution Level to trade Fast Movement for Pounce. Versus most of the low CR opponents, it's best to just Power Attack for full.

Other options include the 5th level Tiger Claw Maneuver from ToB, and Psionic Lion's Charge power and the Ranger-spell Lion's Charge (UMDd version works too with a Glove of Storing). But yeah, once iteratives and Haste and Whirling Frenzy and such step in, you really want those full attacks so being able to start with a full attack is definitely something you should go for.


Non-Two Handers have it harder; two-weapon fighters really want a scaling source of extra damage like Sneak Attack, Skirmish or Bardic Music. Sword & Board...well, you'd better have Tome of Battle for that.

Person_Man
2009-06-01, 01:46 PM
How to optimize melee damage:

1) Have Full BAB, take Power Attack, and use a two handed weapon.

2) Get feats/abilities/items that multiply damage or provide a scaled bonus (as opposed to things that provide static bonuses, like Weapon Specialization). Leap Attack, Spirited Charge, Headlong Rush, Battle Jump, Favored Power Attack, Valorous weapon enhancement, Smite Evil, etc.

3) Get Pounce (www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5884385).

4) Have a reasonably high To-Hit. The standard way to do this is with Shock Trooper. But there are ways to get Touch Attacks and/or to ignore your enemy's Dex bonus to AC and/or just boost your To-Hit via high Str and/or abilities.

Berserk Monk
2009-06-01, 01:49 PM
I am always saddened by the lack of power, mostly in damage fighting types have after you get past about 4th level. At first level you can one hit KO things if you can hit them. As you progress the damage gets lower and lower compared to the increase in damage. I was hoping people had some sort of way, or build that dont suffer from this as bad.
Thanks.

The obvious answer is magical weapons, something you should get as you kill and loot stuff. The next answer is feats, and finally prestige classes which give you cool stuff.

Doc Roc
2009-06-01, 02:05 PM
The obvious answer is magical weapons, something you should get as you kill and loot stuff. The next answer is feats, and finally prestige classes which give you cool stuff.

Actually, I often use nothing more than a +1 valorous lance, and I routinely break 2000~ damage a turn.

Thespianus
2009-06-01, 02:46 PM
Actually, I often use nothing more than a +1 valorous lance, and I routinely break 2000~ damage a turn.
At "mid-levels"? ;)

RTGoodman
2009-06-01, 03:19 PM
At "mid-levels"? ;)

It can probably be done. Charging on horseback with a valorous lance wielded two-handed with Spirited Charge, Power Attack, other PA/charge-boosting feats, and maybe a handful of spells (especially some of those sweet, sweet Paladin spells in Complete Champion, along with Battle Blessing) can certainly stack some damage.

T.G. Oskar
2009-06-01, 03:55 PM
Despite how much people love Shock Trooper (and the reduction to AC), I feel that nobody shows any respect to Combat Brute. Sure, it needs Improved Sunder (a feat nobody would like to use), but the ability to use Power Attack and have x3 for roughly two turns without having to charge, or having something close to x5 with a charge, without using a horse/Valorous weapon is a nifty thing.

Aside from that, I heartily support the ideas of the fellow posters. Maybe having Brilliant Blade for a weapon (with an on/off switch), or a non-caster helpful enough to raise your to-Hit.

Although...a Cleric with Power Attack/Leap Attack/Shock Trooper or Combat Brute/Divine Power (and probably using the given BAB for Power Attack)/Righteous Might should be hilarious to see.

As for two-weapon users, more than scaling damage, you should use it for dealing effects. Wounding (and Greater Wounding) with Haste ends battles quickly so as long as the individuals aren't immune to ability damage; otherwise, Sneak Attack damage is the way to go.

If you're in the area of Maneuvers, the two-handers win with the Nightmare Blade maneuvers after Sapphire. Sure, you might not charge, but it multiplies all damage, so you're free to experiment.

Another way is to rack up criticals and increase their damage. Power Attack + Ribbon Weapons + Improved Critical (or, alternatively, Keen weapons) makes for a small "save or blam" damage. 15-20/x4 is dreamy, but smells of cheese. Elven Courtblade (and the requisite EWP feat) is for the two-handers, Scimitar and Kukri for the two-handers, or Double Scimitar for saving money (if you don't mind wasting one more feat). Again, maneuver users are golden with this; Blood in the Water is the king here, and Ruby/Diamond Nightmare should make things go boom.

It's mostly depending on the method of play, but if you want to do more damage, usually you either get one big weapon and rack up your non-dice damage, or get two weapons and rack up the dice-based damage and Accuracy, or you just go a class with loads of feats and rack up your crits. Or you go martial adept and basically enhance these feats; of course, the non-martial adept versions are respectable on their own.

Finally, weapon augment crystals are the beatstick user's best friend. Exchangeable benefits to be used on several weapons allow for a good investment.

Just as a question regarding EWs: Fullblade is good for slashing, and there's a greathammer mentioned somewhere (MMV is where they get them). Which is a similarly good piercing weapon?

HP McLuvin
2009-06-01, 09:35 PM
Which is a similarly good piercing weapon?The scythe does both slashing and piercing, iirc...as for more exotic weapons, off the top of my head I'm not sure.

Eldariel
2009-06-01, 09:45 PM
Actually, I often use nothing more than a +1 valorous lance, and I routinely break 2000~ damage a turn.

That's like a baby übercharger. But yeah, heavy weapon enhancing is rarely the best use for your money (exception: archers), but there're some enhancements any given archetype will want.

TheArchmage
2009-06-01, 10:11 PM
Please excuse my noobishness, but what sourcebook is Shock Trooper from? It sounds really good for some NPCs I'm writing up.

Swooper
2009-06-01, 10:15 PM
Please excuse my noobishness, but what sourcebook is Shock Trooper from? It sounds really good for some NPCs I'm writing up.
Complete Warrior.

TheArchmage
2009-06-01, 10:21 PM
Thanks, Swooper. :smallbiggrin:

Thespianus
2009-06-02, 12:38 AM
It can probably be done. Charging on horseback with a valorous lance wielded two-handed with Spirited Charge, Power Attack, other PA/charge-boosting feats, and maybe a handful of spells (especially some of those sweet, sweet Paladin spells in Complete Champion, along with Battle Blessing) can certainly stack some damage.

Even if those combinations would boost a 10 BAB-point investment (at level 10) from PA into 2000+ in damage (which I really don't see happening), it does seem a bit situational, and not really something I would call "routinely".