Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri

[legion_prime]

Is anyone still playing? I tried the Planetfall thread and got a "dead thread" message, but I am looking for players to start up a multiplayer game. Anyone interested, post here or message me please?

[1dominator]

Well me and a friend were considering starting to play, if anything comes of it il get back to you.

[Mando Knight]

I tried the Planetfall thread and got a "dead thread" message,

Ooh. They've got those now? Sweet.

I may or may not be installing Alien Crossfire soon...

[Shpadoinkle]

I tried playing a while ago. The thing I always disliked about the Civilization games (and AC) was that I'll be minding my own damn business, quietly researching and building improvements and not bothering anyone, and everyone else on the planet will decide they hate me and do thier best to destroy me. I know AC is supposed to be different about that, but I never really got into it very much.

[Mando Knight]

I tried playing a while ago. The thing I always disliked about the Civilization games (and AC) was that I'll be minding my own damn business, quietly researching and building improvements and not bothering anyone, and everyone else on the planet will decide they hate me and do thier best to destroy me. I know AC is supposed to be different about that, but I never really got into it very much.

See, this is where you try to start off with your own continent, build up an amazing infrastructure, and develop weapons without deploying them. Then, when your opponents declare war on you, it's already way too late, as you can switch your buildings to weapons production, and soon you'll have mass-produced versions of units stronger than their best prototypes.

[Cubey]

I like when other factions declare war on me for superficial reasons, be it AC, GalCiv or whatever else. That's because, while I like researching and building infrastructure, it bores me in the long run. Conflict with other factions brings unpredictability and makes the game fun for me, definitely more fun than just toiling away in a little corner, unbothered and not bothering anyone, researching all techs up to the dreaded, most mind-numbingly boring way to win - Technology Victory.

[ImmortalAer]

Sooo!

Who wants to run a game later tonight? Preferably just the original without Alien Crossfire...

[Vizen]

Alpha Centauri is one of the ONLY games I can get running on my PC because my PC is so old and failing on me. However, for some reason now the game keeps crashing on me. Normally when I research a secret project.

I'm tempted to just forget about secret projects and just take them from whatever faction got them (Minus The Hunter-Seeker Algorithm. That one is a must-have for me, especially when I play as The University), but that doesn't always work. :smalltongue:

[Caewil]

I'm into that. problem though - just how do you play online? I imagine it would be horribly slow.

[Headless_Ninja]

I'm afraid I had to uninstall it and give the disc to a friend over exam season. Sorry.

[Lord_Drayakir]

I love SMAC, but unfortunately my Linux-box doesn't run it. :smalleek: However, back when I used to play, it was awesome to play as either the University, the Gaians, or in the expansion- the Pirates.

[Miklus]

I tried playing a while ago. The thing I always disliked about the Civilization games (and AC) was that I'll be minding my own damn business, quietly researching and building improvements and not bothering anyone, and everyone else on the planet will decide they hate me and do thier best to destroy me. I know AC is supposed to be different about that, but I never really got into it very much.

AC is not really diffrent in that aspect. But keep in mind that the chances of someone deciding to attack you is very much dependant on how big an army you have. Build a bigger army than the others and they will leave you alone. If you are defenceless, they will always attack.

[Headless_Ninja]

Oo, I never played the expansion. Worth getting (when exams are over)? Seconding the University love. I always liked the Peacekeepers too, but the University were the best. Science = awesome.

[Artanis]

SMAC is probably the only 4X game where I didn't play the official science-whore faction much. Don't get me wrong, I loved the University, but Yang's ridiculously fast early expansion rate was just too addicting.


Unfortunately, I lost my disc years ago, and haven't played it since. I never got to play SMAX either :smallfrown:

[Player_Zero]

Drone riots.

[Proceed] [Zoom to Base] [Nerve Staple (atrocity)]

[d12]

I just recently noticed something in Alpha Centauri. Until maybe a couple months ago I had never even heard of the Skunkworks facility. I've never seen it come up as a build option during any game I've ever played, and natually that causes me to doubt I've ever built one. Is there something I'm missing? Strange. :smallconfused: Anybody else ever heard of something like that? Or am I just looking completely in the wrong place?

[Ganurath]

Skunkworks is an automatic feature that you gain upon tech completion.

[d12]

Skunkworks is an automatic feature that you gain upon tech completion.

That so? Well, that would go a ways to explaining why I never saw anything indicating it was possible to build. :smalltongue:

[multilis]

imo the single player game was flawed in being race for supply transports, then cranking them out to quickly grow specialised super cities.

(http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Sid_Meier's_Alpha_Centauri/Weapon#Supply_Transport)

[SolkaTruesilver]

Skunkworks is an automatic feature that you gain upon tech completion.

Wait, Skunkworks is a facility that you build, which skips the cost for prototype.

If you are playing Spartians, then Skunkworks are irrelevant, and won't show in your facility build list.

[d12]

Wait, Skunkworks is a facility that you build, which skips the cost for prototype.

If you are playing Spartians, then Skunkworks are irrelevant, and won't show in your facility build list.

Hmm. That's the question I was having before. Everything I'd read seemed to indicate that it was a facility just like any of the others that would show up in the build list, but I don't remember once actually seeing it show up. I usually play as University, so no Spartan bonus for me.

[SolkaTruesilver]

The game is usually clever ennough to not propose you things that are redundant..

Is there a secret projects that makes prototype cost-free?

[ImmortalAer]

The game is usually clever ennough to not propose you things that are redundant..

Is there a secret projects that makes prototype cost-free?

Skunkworks.

It's good. :smallwink:

[SolkaTruesilver]

That's not a secret project, it's a base facility :smalltongue:

[Ethdred]

The game is usually clever ennough to not propose you things that are redundant..

Is there a secret projects that makes prototype cost-free?

Not standardly. It sounds like the OP has either got a bug or hasn't been looking hard enough :) I never build Skunkworks, so I don't always notice if they're on the list or not. But I've occasionally captured one, and not really been bothered with them - the prototype penalty isn't as high as having to decide in advance where you're going to build all your prototypes.

[Serenity]

I think the game flat out doesn't charge for prototypes unless you're playing at Talent level or above. If you're on Citizen or Specialist difficulty, the game might not bother showing Skunkworks since its irrelevant at those levels.

[ImmortalAer]

That's not a secret project, it's a base facility :smalltongue:

Ah... Yup.

Whoops. :smallredface:

[Douglas]

I think the game flat out doesn't charge for prototypes unless you're playing at Talent level or above. If you're on Citizen or Specialist difficulty, the game might not bother showing Skunkworks since its irrelevant at those levels.
I don't know the exact threshold, but I'm pretty sure this is essentially correct. Below a certain difficulty level Skunkworks is irrelevant and useless because you get its benefit free everywhere just for playing on an easy enough difficulty, so the game hides the facility.

[d12]

I think the game flat out doesn't charge for prototypes unless you're playing at Talent level or above. If you're on Citizen or Specialist difficulty, the game might not bother showing Skunkworks since its irrelevant at those levels.

That would also explain it. So guess which difficulty I typically play on. :smalltongue: I love the game. I never claimed to be spectacular at it. :smallredface: Though my current game has been absolutely great, so if a couple more go that way maybe I'll go up to the next level, and maybe I'll see it then, if that is true.

PS - To OP: Sorry for the threadjack. :smalltongue: Saw a topic about the game and it seemed like a good place to ask.

[Artanis]

Man, this thread is making me wish I could find my old copy of the game. The box is there on my bookshelf, taunting me, but there's nothing in it :smallfrown:

Anybody know where I can get one on the cheap? Preferably via download (like a Steam-type service).

[DBear]

Alpha Centauri is one of the ONLY games I can get running on my PC because my PC is so old and failing on me. However, for some reason now the game keeps crashing on me. Normally when I research a secret project.



I have the opposite problem. I can't get SMAC to work with Vista. I have other games from that time, such as HoM&M III, that work just fine.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Yanno, I used to be a research-whore of University until someone told me that Morgan was able to get WAY more research than University was.

I didn't believe him at all. So I tried it out, just to see how hard it sucked.

Wow... if anything, he understated it. Seriously, the +economy thing is huge. Why? Wealth. Also gives +1 economy. Which gives +1 energy per square in every city. Seriously, it doesn't matter if University can crank out twice the Research per Energy when the Monopoly can crank out FIVE TIMES the energy output. Easily.

Now I go Democratic, Green, and Wealth (and Cybernetic when I get the Project which lets me do it without penalty). Yang hates me, of course. So does Santiago, Mirriam, and Zhakarov. But hey, the Gaians and the UN are my best buddies! Besides, Yang never keeps his word, Mirriam always tries to kill you off anyways, Santiago always tries to pick a fight, and I can beat the University at it's own game. So those three will always end up fighting me anyways, and the last one is just pwned. In the meantime, not only do I have WTFPWN research, I *also*, at no additional charge, have more money coming in than I know what to do with!

[ImmortalAer]

I have the opposite problem. I can't get SMAC to work with Vista. I have other games from that time, such as HoM&M III, that work just fine.

Try right clicking and Running As Admin.

If you've already tried that, then it's fried. :smalltongue:

[Ethdred]

I have the opposite problem. I can't get SMAC to work with Vista. I have other games from that time, such as HoM&M III, that work just fine.

I've got it running on Vista without trouble (has another game yesterday - thanks Tube strikers!), so it is possible. Maybe try re-installing it.

[Philistine]

I have the opposite problem. I can't get SMAC to work with Vista. I have other games from that time, such as HoM&M III, that work just fine.

What sort of problems are you having, exactly?

[Mando Knight]

Try right clicking and Running As Admin.

If you've already tried that, then it's fried. :smalltongue:

Run As Admin solves everything. :smalltongue:

[chiasaur11]

Run As Admin solves everything. :smalltongue:

Except even with all our power, even with run as admin, we can't teach the computer...

to love.

Hate, petty jealousy, and bemused delight are coming along nicely, though.

[mangosta71]

Run As Admin solves everything. :smalltongue:

Kinda surprised me, since, ya know, my account on my PC is the admin account. I expected it to run things as admin by default. But this is how I finally got ME to run.

Now, if I can just find my SMAC disc. The SMAX disc doesn't do me any good by itself.

[Mando Knight]

Kinda surprised me, since, ya know, my account on my PC is the admin account. I expected it to run things as admin by default. But this is how I finally got ME to run.

Now, if I can just find my SMAC disc. The SMAX disc doesn't do me any good by itself.

An Admin account just tells the computer that you're authorized to approve admin-only operations. If a program attempts to do so without having admin authorization itself, Vista either ignores everything that the program tries to do, or it requests authorization. "Run as Admin" basically gives the computer your thumbs-up to giving the program administrator-level privileges... which Vista then has you reconfirm every time you run such a program.

[Philistine]

Run as Admin doesn't stop SMAC firing the "Your CPU is not supported" error message on startup; this issue existed prior to Vista.

Luckily, it doesn't actually seem to matter much; you can just click "OK" and probably play just fine.

[Headless_Ninja]

Major emergency. The friend gave the disc back. I still have two exams! *Panic*.
Control, Headless, control...

[Winterwind]

Major emergency. The friend gave the disc back. I still have two exams! *Panic*.
Control, Headless, control..."Learn to overcome the crass demands of flesh and bone, for they warp the matrix through which we perceive the world. Extend your awareness outward, beyond the self of body, to embrace the self of group and the self of humanity. The goals of the group and the greater race are transcendent, and to embrace them is to achieve enlightenment." - Chairman Sheng-ji Yang, "Essays on Mind and Matter"

:smalltongue:

[Premier]

Run as Admin doesn't stop SMAC firing the "Your CPU is not supported" error message on startup; this issue existed prior to Vista.

Luckily, it doesn't actually seem to matter much; you can just click "OK" and probably play just fine.

If you get that message and the game still doesn't work after clicking OK, then open the Alpha Centauri.ini file in a text editor and make sure the last two lines are:


[PREFERENCES]
ForceOldVoxelAlgorithm=1


If you don't find these two lines, then add them manually.

[Artanis]

*SMAC quote*
OK, that's just plain cruel :smalltongue:

[Winterwind]

OK, that's just plain cruel :smalltongue:I was about to reply to this with that quote from the Virtual World project - the one Yang-quote starting with "What do I care for your suffering?" - but decided that would be too cruel indeed. :smallbiggrin:

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Vendetta upon you!

[Shpadoinkle]

So I reinstalled the game a couple weeks ago and I've already played a few game to completion. I think the Morganites are my favorite faction, since like I said earlier, I prefer to quietly build and research instead of trying to destroy everyone else.

For some reason, as Morgan, I keep getting placed right next to Santiago, except for the time it was Yang instead. Generally, Santiago will initially agress, until I pay her off to get her to go away, then she seems satisfied for a while and we repeat the transaction later. I figure it's a reasonable price to pay for having her protecting my flank. Sometimes she'll decide to attack me anyway, but I just subvert her units out from under her and turn them back against her bases. Dierdre, Miriam and Yang all want me dead though, except for that game when I went Green. Dierdre liked me then. I prefer using Wealth and Free Market though, since having +4 Economy gives an extra energy resource in every square.

[Player_Zero]

Dierdre, Miriam and Yang all want me dead though, except for that game when I went Green.

Miriam will always want you dead. She will attack you every game no matter what you try to do.

[mangosta71]

Miriam will always want you dead. She will attack you every game no matter what you try to do.

It's true. No matter what faction you play and what social engineering choices you make, she'll find a reason to pick a fight. It adds to the authenticity. But her tech should be so far behind yours that she's not much of a threat.
I always wondered why she has so many quotes on high end techs and projects. Not like the Believers will ever have them...

[Winterwind]

I always wondered why she has so many quotes on high end techs and projects. Not like the Believers will ever have them...I assume it's because this tech and the concepts involved are so incredibly sophisticated that they pose questions about the relations between mankind, nature and its scientific laws, and God and religious matters. Like the question whether these teleportation technologies are capable of teleporting the soul, too, etc.

[ArlEammon]

Actually, with Miriam's probing bonus, she should have high level technologies no matter how poor her tech is.

Miriam's tech penalty is lousy when played by someone who really loves to grow a large country.

I won a Transcendance victory with Miriam on Librarian in the year 2450.

[Winter_Wolf]

Major emergency. The friend gave the disc back. I still have two exams! *Panic*.
Control, Headless, control...

And that is why I've had to repeatedly uninstall SMAC from my various computers over the years. :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

My laughter is not so much at you, but because I know how you got into that situation. Kind of painful to go without for a while, is it? By the way, how'd your finals go?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

So I reinstalled the game a couple weeks ago and I've already played a few game to completion. I think the Morganites are my favorite faction, since like I said earlier, I prefer to quietly build and research instead of trying to destroy everyone else.

For some reason, as Morgan, I keep getting placed right next to Santiago, except for the time it was Yang instead. Generally, Santiago will initially agress, until I pay her off to get her to go away, then she seems satisfied for a while and we repeat the transaction later. I figure it's a reasonable price to pay for having her protecting my flank. Sometimes she'll decide to attack me anyway, but I just subvert her units out from under her and turn them back against her bases. Dierdre, Miriam and Yang all want me dead though, except for that game when I went Green. Dierdre liked me then. I prefer using Wealth and Free Market though, since having +4 Economy gives an extra energy resource in every square.

I prefer having the ability to turn mind worms into allies. Then play with the option to have a LOT of native life forms. Miriam, Yang, and Santiago all get targeted by mind worms fairly often due to their anti-Planet pogroms, usually enough to get the starch taken out of their sails. While you quietly grow your own army of mind worms...

[mangosta71]

I prefer having the ability to turn mind worms into allies. Then play with the option to have a LOT of native life forms. Miriam, Yang, and Santiago all get targeted by mind worms fairly often due to their anti-Planet pogroms, usually enough to get the starch taken out of their sails. While you quietly grow your own army of mind worms...

Don't forget disbanding them in your bases to boost construction.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Don't forget disbanding them in your bases to boost construction.

Thought that didn't work with captured mind worms...

[Shpadoinkle]

Hmm... the first couple games I played went pretty well, but in my last two or three tries I can't seem to get a foothold anywhere... I didn't think I was that bad. I'm not really doing anything different, though I did go up from Citizen difficulty to Specialist. Seems like every game Yang is there to put the sword to my throat to get money or tech out of me, and I can't keep up with him because he just swarms the **** out of me. Subverting one unit doesn't work very well when he's got six more one tile away, ready to destory the subverted unit and the probe team, then roll over my cities. I also can't build up enough money to subvert more than one or two because he expands too fast. Is this just bad luck, or am I doing something wrong?

[MickJay]

Yang should be a little behind with technology, you should be able to keep ahead of him regardless of your faction (perimeters+superior armor should let your unit survive at least a couple of attacks). If you started right next to him, tough luck, but try intercepting his troops with vehicles (they gain bonus in open against infantry). If you want to subvert something, try it with his smaller bases, you'll capture the units there as well. If you're investing everything into expanding your colonies and infrastructure, then you need to start mass producing offensive units (vehicles for dealing with Yang in the field, infantry for capturing bases), sacrifice 10 or 15 turns of development to build military units in all bases, then flood Yang with them, once you capture some of his bases, he'll ask for peace (by then, you should be able to wipe him out; you might want to keep him as "ally" with one or two bases for trade).

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Yang should be a little behind with technology, you should be able to keep ahead of him regardless of your faction (perimeters+superior armor should let your unit survive at least a couple of attacks). If you started right next to him, tough luck, but try intercepting his troops with vehicles (they gain bonus in open against infantry). If you want to subvert something, try it with his smaller bases, you'll capture the units there as well. If you're investing everything into expanding your colonies and infrastructure, then you need to start mass producing offensive units (vehicles for dealing with Yang in the field, infantry for capturing bases), sacrifice 10 or 15 turns of development to build military units in all bases, then flood Yang with them, once you capture some of his bases, he'll ask for peace (by then, you should be able to wipe him out; you might want to keep him as "ally" with one or two bases for trade).

Actually, there's an easier way to beat Yang... two of them, actually.

1) Don't play Democracy. In fact, go Police State. This will get you on Yang's good side, and make him less inclined to curb-stomp you. You do sacrifice something in the way of efficency, but at least you get some military bonuses which can be handy if he DOES decide to go after you anyways.

2) Out-Tech him. Seriously, as Morganite you should be ahead of the University on Tech, much less Yang. A dozen 3/2/2 vs two 1/4^/1... your two ECM troops are going to wipe the floor with his dozen weak troops. Particularly if you have the Project which gives you Perimeter Defense in every city. In higher-difficulty games, this means having a couple of cities with good production having a Skunkworks built so you can produce prototypes quicker. Once you have the prototype built, you upgrade ALL your defenders. It'll cost some money, but as the Morganites, you should have money steaming out your ears.

[Winterwind]

And build sensors close to your cities, on fields difficult to access from the direction he is coming from. Also, have some high-attack units in the most exposed cities in addition to your regular garrison troups that can assault groups of his units as they approach for dealing damage to all of them at once. You should be able to fend off a massive onslaught of units then.

[Artanis]

2) Out-Tech him. *things about Morgan having lots of money and thus a big tech advantage*

This is excellent advice. To add a bit on top of it:
-Probe teams cost money
-You have lots of money
-The tech-whoring University has crappy probe team defense :smallbiggrin:

[ShneekeyTheLost]

And build sensors close to your cities, on fields difficult to access from the direction he is coming from. Also, have some high-attack units in the most exposed cities in addition to your regular garrison troups that can assault groups of his units as they approach for dealing damage to all of them at once. You should be able to fend off a massive onslaught of units then.

I generally build sensors everywhere I've got forest because otherwise it prevents you from getting an energy bonus in that square. So I don't just have one sensor. I've got flippin' tons of them. All over the place.

Seriously, once you get Mind-Machine Interface, your problems are over. Choppers >>>>> all. Choppers + paratroopers to capture empty cities = win button. Once you have choppers, you no longer need any other offensive unit. Ever.

[ImmortalAer]

I generally build sensors everywhere I've got forest because otherwise it prevents you from getting an energy bonus in that square. So I don't just have one sensor. I've got flippin' tons of them. All over the place.

Seriously, once you get Mind-Machine Interface, your problems are over. Choppers >>>>> all. Choppers + paratroopers to capture empty cities = win button. Once you have choppers, you no longer need any other offensive unit. Ever.

But I hate choppers! :smallsigh:

Meh, I always do the majority of my killing early game, a bunch of my obsolete army hording over people mid-game, and Deathsphere+Paratroopers for the endgame.

[Winter_Wolf]

Something you can do with sensors, is build bases on top of them and still receive the bonuses from it (sight, +defense) once the base is built. The best part about this? You only have to issue the build sensor command and then you can build in the same square that the former unit is building on! (At least I'm pretty sure that's what's happened, I did it just today.)

The WePlayCiv website has a SMAC/X section where you can find a guide including strategies, written by vyeh. http://www.weplayciv.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=7. A lot of the stuff I'd seen elsewhere, but there's lots of good insights in one place.

There's also SMAC Academy at civgaming.net: http://www.civgaming.net/smac/academy.shtml

If you get really ambitious, you can even start tweaking the alpha.txt and faction files in notepad to your tastes. You could, for example, go into morgan.txt and erase the part of the file that goes "SOCIAL, -SUPPORT" to get rid of his support penalty. Or you could add "FACILITY, 7," to give Morgan a free energy bank at every base you build. (It won't automatically give you an energy bank in a base if you take it over though.) If you're a masochist you could even add penalties or remove bonuses. Save unmodified versions of your .txt files before you start tinkering!

Another Morganite strategy is to choose ONE high mineral output base and build a punishment sphere there. Why would you build a facility that destroys all talents and cripples research output? Because it also destroys all drones, making all citizens "content" and you build your army and then send it to this city and Ctrl+H to set it as the supporting city so you can run Free Market with -5 Police rating (two extra drones per unit outside of own territory) and still conduct a successful war. Proceed to use crawlers to boost the mineral output of that base as much as possible, and build every mineral increasing facility you can (Genejack Factory, Robotic Assembly Plant, Nanoreplicator, Quantum Converter).

Just make sure you have enough units to kill the mindworms from the constant fungal >pops<. Oh, and then there's the in-game global warming and rising sea levels from abusing the environment. There's good news, though. Every tree farm, hybrid forest, centauri preserve, and temple of planet your faction builds will help decrease ecological damage after the first fungal >pop<. Planting forests after the initial >pop< is supposed to help too, but I don't notice it. (I was producing 200+ minerals and for some reason did not have access to any of the "green" facilities. Base was in the center of the Garland Crater, had some rocky+mineral bonus+mines and three or four boreholes being crawled. Made lots of money on mindworm hunting though.)

Make use of the unit design feature. You can put a crawler module on a foil chassis and have a flock of them working tidal harnesses for your primary research city. Add armor to help them fend off random attacks or keep a strong naval presence near them so you don't lose your investment though.

[Premier]

If you get really ambitious, you can even start tweaking the alpha.txt and faction files in notepad to your tastes.

...or if you have Alien Crossfire, you could just use the faction editor program that comes with it.

[Headless_Ninja]

By the way, how'd your finals go?
Some went well enough I can reward myself with AC. Others went poorly enough that I need to escape with AC!
However, I've not played in a while and was pretty useless to begin with. So, any tips?

[MickJay]

Build a lot of bases, develop technology quickly, be the first to build all projects, abolish UN charter :smalltongue:

Use lots of crawlers, you can drill boreholes to get nice spots with high mineral/energy yield for crawlers. Plant forests everywhere once you can get 2-2-2 from them. Explore a lot and stash artifacts until you can use them for free tech.

I've always found the gameplay easiest with Gaians, for some reason, even with all the bonuses other factions get. It's surprisingly fun playing Peacekeepers, you can typically get well along with Gaians (you NEED Green economy) and either Uni or Morgan (values).

[Winter_Wolf]

A tip for lower difficulty levels (citizen and specialist). Crank up your industrial and/or mineral output any way you can and try to AVOID getting new tech that allows you to build a secret project until you're sure you can complete it before other factions. At these two levels, the AI won't typically start building a secret project until you have the tech too. DON'T do this if you're playing at librarian level or higher, becuase the AI won't wait, and unless you're in a position to curb stomp that faction and steal the base, you're out of luck. (If you have the energy, you can also attempt to mind control the base unless it's the faction HQ city.)

Kill the Hive and Believers as soon as you know where their bases are located. Sadly my last few games have been ones where they've managed to kill all the other factions before the mid-game. Basically forcing a perpetual planet-war until the end of the game.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

A tip for lower difficulty levels (citizen and specialist). Crank up your industrial and/or mineral output any way you can and try to AVOID getting new tech that allows you to build a secret project until you're sure you can complete it before other factions. At these two levels, the AI won't typically start building a secret project until you have the tech too. DON'T do this if you're playing at librarian level or higher, becuase the AI won't wait, and unless you're in a position to curb stomp that faction and steal the base, you're out of luck. (If you have the energy, you can also attempt to mind control the base unless it's the faction HQ city.)

Kill the Hive and Believers as soon as you know where their bases are located. Sadly my last few games have been ones where they've managed to kill all the other factions before the mid-game. Basically forcing a perpetual planet-war until the end of the game.

Why bother? By the time they start building Projects at that level, you should already have Formers building roads, and Supply caravans funneling production to your capital city and cranking out Projects faster than everyone else in the world combined. Honestly, you should be able to get all projects, unless you got screwed on starting location.

[Artanis]

Why bother?
Because some people might be playing a lower difficulty level due to not being very good at the game. The may be unable to "already have Formers building roads, and Supply caravans funneling production to your capital city" at that point.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Because some people might be playing a lower difficulty level due to not being very good at the game. The may be unable to "already have Formers building roads, and Supply caravans funneling production to your capital city" at that point.

In that case, the solution is to show them how to do it instead of telling them to cripple their tech production.

[Winter_Wolf]

Why bother?

Because I generally play with blind research ON and tech stagnation OFF. (Blind research makes the game more interesting to me. Kind of a "wonder what I'll get this time?" luck of the draw.) Maybe I should have said "pre Industrial Automation." Really though, for what you outline, you have to have the crawlers. For some reason my game usually doesn't give me access to IndAuto until some time after I have tech to build SPs up to Citizens' Defense Force. Also, I usually end up with tech to build three or four secret projects before I have four bases or the tech that allows 3+ minerals/square. You must well know that no crawlers means generally depending on good luck with bonus minerals and productive squares limited by base populations.

BUT in all fairness, I completely see your point. It's great to have the tech rolling in and the industrial capacity to pump out the SPs, or the EC to just rush buy them all.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Because I generally play with blind research ON and tech stagnation OFF. (Blind research makes the game more interesting to me. Kind of a "wonder what I'll get this time?" luck of the draw.) Maybe I should have said "pre Industrial Automation." Really though, for what you outline, you have to have the crawlers. For some reason my game usually doesn't give me access to IndAuto until some time after I have tech to build SPs up to Citizens' Defense Force. Also, I usually end up with tech to build three or four secret projects before I have four bases or the tech that allows 3+ minerals/square. You must well know that no crawlers means generally depending on good luck with bonus minerals and productive squares limited by base populations.

BUT in all fairness, I completely see your point. It's great to have the tech rolling in and the industrial capacity to pump out the SPs, or the EC to just rush buy them all.

Ahh, so you're playing a challenge-game. Interesting concept. Then it'll be luck of the draw to do anything worthwhile before you get obliterated, depending on the techs you research and who your next door neighbors are.

[Winterwind]

Ahh, so you're playing a challenge-game. Interesting concept. Then it'll be luck of the draw to do anything worthwhile before you get obliterated, depending on the techs you research and who your next door neighbors are.Umm? :smallconfused:
It's not that difficult. I haven't ever played without Blind Research, and it's perfectly manageable. You make it sound as if it was a death certificate...

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Umm? :smallconfused:
It's not that difficult. I haven't ever played without Blind Research, and it's perfectly manageable. You make it sound as if it was a death certificate...

I suppose on those difficulties it won't be, but anything above Talent, it would be hit or miss as to if you could manage to survive. As it is, bad location can effectively screw you over. Your ability to research key critical technologies early on to establish yourself would be sheer chance. You would have no control over getting the technologies you need to survive until you can become established.

Early game, if you get jumped, you will NEED a 2 attack weapon, because otherwise you can't even spit on them, much less take out a city. However, if all it gives you is a pointless tech tree up to Optical Computers, you simply cannot effectively fight off your opponent, particularly if it is Believers or Yang.

[Winterwind]

I usually play on the second-highest difficulty... and while not easy, it's still quite manageable.

[Guancyto]

It's been a while since I've played, but shouldn't focusing on Conquer give you 2 attack weapons in fairly short order anyway? I mean, blind research is blind, but it isn't so random that you won't get what you were looking for.

[Ethdred]

I usually play on the second-highest difficulty... and while not easy, it's still quite manageable.

I was thinking the same. I always play on Transcend, and I can _usually_ win with Blind Research (make that _always_ in SAMX). When I first got the game I started playing with that on, as I also like the surprise element of it. Having now read too much Internet I'm trying things with BR off, though I find my knowledge of the tech tree is limited so I don't always make the right choices :) It does make things easier, but I'm doing other things to up the challenge, like playing factions I haven't really tried before.

[Shpadoinkle]

I finished another game as Morgan last night. Morgan's definitely my favorite faction. When I first started playing it was the University, but I think thier drone problem and the Probe penalty make them too unbalanced. Morgan can pour enough money into research to keep up with Zak any day.

I had to go with Police State pretty much the whole game because after a point I was constantly at war and needed the extra Police. The only faction I ended up destroying was Miriam, but only because she betrayed me after she surrendered. The last faction I wound up fighting were the Peacekeepers, and then only because Lal was pissed at me for using Police State the entire game. By the point I started on him I'd already gotten everyone else to surrender to me, and was only using Police State because I had so many units to support (mostly various 'Copters). If I hadn't been at war with him I could have switched to something else, which probably would have ended hostilities, but I couldn't because he wouldn't lay off long enough... So I was at war with him because he didn't like that I was doing something that I onlly had to do because I was at war with him. Great...

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I finished another game as Morgan last night. Morgan's definitely my favorite faction. When I first started playing it was the University, but I think thier drone problem and the Probe penalty make them too unbalanced. Morgan can pour enough money into research to keep up with Zak any day.

I had to go with Police State pretty much the whole game because after a point I was constantly at war and needed the extra Police. The only faction I ended up destroying was Miriam, but only because she betrayed me after she surrendered. The last faction I wound up fighting were the Peacekeepers, and then only because Lal was pissed at me for using Police State the entire game. By the point I started on him I'd already gotten everyone else to surrender to me, and was only using Police State because I had so many units to support (mostly various 'Copters). If I hadn't been at war with him I could have switched to something else, which probably would have ended hostilities, but I couldn't because he wouldn't lay off long enough... So I was at war with him because he didn't like that I was doing something that I onlly had to do because I was at war with him. Great...

Most of your problems can be solved with Clean Reactors, which makes that unit not count for Support. Sure, each individual unit is a bit harder to produce, but I generally end up Democracy/Green/Wealth and have no problems waging intercontinental war because all my choppers are Clean.

Also, here's a tip: Make a Garrison Unit (1/highest/1) with drop pods. That way you empty out a city with your choppers, drop a guy in, support from that city, and fortify. It's like buying your first garrison unit... without actually having to spend money on it. As you increase your tech, you can increase their mobility. So when you get Fusion Plants, you can have a 1/x/2*2, which costs the same production as a 1/x/1*2 anyways.

[Winterwind]

There is no need to give only attack 1 to garrison units. As long as their attack is lower than their defence, the costs remain exactly the same - in other words, there is absolutely no reason to use 1/5/1, as 4/5/1 costs the same and is strictly better.

[Shpadoinkle]

I was using clean reactor units and using a hovertank with heavy armor for taking bases, but that doesn't do anything for the fact that they're military units away from base and consequently I get drones. I usually go with Democracy/ Free Market/ Wealth/ Eudaimonia, which means my Police rating sucks.

[MickJay]

I was using clean reactor units and using a hovertank with heavy armor for taking bases, but that doesn't do anything for the fact that they're military units away from base and consequently I get drones. I usually go with Democracy/ Free Market/ Wealth/ Eudaimonia, which means my Police rating sucks.

I try to make one or two bases focused on mineral production, get together some offensive units there, and when I need to/I'm ready to attack, I build punishment spheres in them - no problems with rioting. The major problem with this is that I'm often forced to act before having the technology to build spheres...

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I was using clean reactor units and using a hovertank with heavy armor for taking bases, but that doesn't do anything for the fact that they're military units away from base and consequently I get drones. I usually go with Democracy/ Free Market/ Wealth/ Eudaimonia, which means my Police rating sucks.

Ahh, that's the problem. Ditch Free Market, it's a trap. Wealth + Morganite = energy bonus per square. Go Green, and not only NOT have Diedra all over you for your planet-destroying ways, but also being able to convert worms. Specially with Cybernetic, which I vastly prefer to Eudaimonia. Better Efficency is why I grab it, to keep the energy flowing smoothly even from my far-flung colonies, but the bonus to research is pretty nice too.

[Shpadoinkle]

Yeah, I dropped free market and went with Green instead, and things went a lot better.

In my last game, I had to eliminate Santiago because she wouldn't stop harassing me from early on, and not much later I managed to subjugate Yang for the rest of the game. Then Dierdre was under attack by Lal, so I sent a bunch of copters to her bases and used them to destory his units so she could take over his bases (I had plenty of bases already, I didn't give a damn.) Once Lal was down to two bases he surrendered to me. Then for some reason Dierdre decided she hated me and declared war. By this time I was able to build a bunch of drop troops and pretty much destroyed her in fairly short order because she refused to surrender, even once she was down to her last base.

Zakharov got eliminated early by someone else. This seems to happen a lot.

A bunch of demon boils spawned all over the place at one point, even though Centauri Preserves and Recycling Tanks were standard facilities, once I had a couple garrison troops and some basic facilities (permiter defense, children's creche, aerospace complex, network node, and energy bank mostly). The only reason I can think that this would be is that I had a bunch of bases each build an Orbital Defense pod at the same time, which for some reason causes major ecological damage as you're buidling them (I only did this because Dierdre dropped a Planetbuster on one of my bases). I'm aware that if your Planet rating gets too high (4 or higher, I think) a bug causes it to wrap around and be considered some number in the negatives, but I only had it at 3.

[Philistine]

IIRC, there's at least one Plot-driven mindworm outbreak that's triggered by one of the late-game Techs and announced by an Interlude scene. Could that be what hit you?

[Winterwind]

IIRC, there's at least one Plot-driven mindworm outbreak that's triggered by one of the late-game Techs and announced by an Interlude scene. There is. It's a massive mindworm onslaught that can only be stopped by building the Voice of Planet project.
Though I think it starts only when one gets the technology allowing that, or at least one that is not far away from it, meaning one would be very near the end of the game anyway.

[MickJay]

For me, it always happened when I already started to build the Voice.

[Winterwind]

Oh yeah, that could be the trigger, too. :smallredface:

[ImmortalAer]

I always spend the rest of the game after that (Set to Conquest, leave someone alive :smallbiggrin: ) sending Drop Formers all over the planet, along with Drop Colony Pods. Clean up the exofungus, and wonder what the Voice of The Planet can do about it. :smallcool:

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Yeah, I dropped free market and went with Green instead, and things went a lot better.

In my last game, I had to eliminate Santiago because she wouldn't stop harassing me from early on, and not much later I managed to subjugate Yang for the rest of the game. Then Dierdre was under attack by Lal, so I sent a bunch of copters to her bases and used them to destory his units so she could take over his bases (I had plenty of bases already, I didn't give a damn.) Once Lal was down to two bases he surrendered to me. Then for some reason Dierdre decided she hated me and declared war. By this time I was able to build a bunch of drop troops and pretty much destroyed her in fairly short order because she refused to surrender, even once she was down to her last base.

Zakharov got eliminated early by someone else. This seems to happen a lot.

A bunch of demon boils spawned all over the place at one point, even though Centauri Preserves and Recycling Tanks were standard facilities, once I had a couple garrison troops and some basic facilities (permiter defense, children's creche, aerospace complex, network node, and energy bank mostly). The only reason I can think that this would be is that I had a bunch of bases each build an Orbital Defense pod at the same time, which for some reason causes major ecological damage as you're buidling them (I only did this because Dierdre dropped a Planetbuster on one of my bases). I'm aware that if your Planet rating gets too high (4 or higher, I think) a bug causes it to wrap around and be considered some number in the negatives, but I only had it at 3.

Okay, here's why you got swarmed:

You build a huge number of Orbital Defense Pods. If you had the Project The Space Elevator, then you get MASSIVE multipliers for production of space facilities, including Defense Pods. However, this multiplier counts BEFORE the modifier for the eco-damage reduction from your facilities was taken into account.

Thus, for one turn, you had eco damage of like 30+ in every city because of your attempt to stop being hit by another Planetbuster. So yea, Planet isn't going to like that.

[Shpadoinkle]

As I mentioned before, the University keeps getting elimated early on, usually even before the first hundred turns are up. Does this happen to anyone else, and is there a reason for it?

[MickJay]

University concentrates on development and dealing with drones first, and it's less expansive than others. Yang, Miriam, Spartans will mass produce cheap units - and while the University may have slight advantage in technology when war starts, it lacks infrastructure and standing army to defend itself. That, and the advantage in research is partially nullified by more numerous bases of the more expansionistic and aggressive enemies that, taken together, generate significant amount of research. If Miriam starts close to Zakharov, University typically won't last those 100 turns.

[Ethdred]

Agreed. I haven't noticed any faction getting regularly eliminated early (without my intervention!) but when it happens it will be one of Morgan, Uni or UN. I think I once had the Believers eliminated early on by someone else, which was the cause of great rejoicing. The Greens either do very well because they started out isolated, or tend to get hemmed in but rarely eliminated.

[MickJay]

Still, it is best to keep all factions allied and submissive, as it increases trade income considerably, without any real risks. Typically you have to reduce enemy to 1-2 bases before they come groveling, and in extreme cases, not even then.

[Om]

This is one reason why I finally stopped playing the default map of Planet. Invariably the University would end up on an island/continent with only Miriam/Yang for company. Which would mean a giant amphibious operation for me in the mid-late game

[ShneekeyTheLost]

This is one reason why I finally stopped playing the default map of Planet. Invariably the University would end up on an island/continent with only Miriam/Yang for company. Which would mean a giant amphibious operation for me in the mid-late game

or air assault... planes/choppers (depending on how far away) then use Drop troops to take over city, establish a beachhead, then go to town. May have to bring over ONE transport to get 'em close enough to drop in until you have Space Elevator, with a couple of choppers to bust through if you have carriers.

[Om]

Well, yeah but its tedious :smallwink:

[mangosta71]

Miriam always annoys me to the point that I get the UN charter repealed and nerve gas her into oblivion. I don't even allow her to surrender any more because I know she's just going to bitch about my SE choices and stab me in the back later.

[Artanis]

Miriam always annoys me to the point that I get the UN charter repealed and nerve gas her into oblivion. I don't even allow her to surrender any more because I know she's just going to bitch about my SE choices and stab me in the back later.

Doing so is especially satisfying when playing as University. "You not only got beat, but you got beat by the thing you loathe the most! EAT IT!"

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Doing so is especially satisfying when playing as University. "You not only got beat, but you got beat by the thing you loathe the most! EAT IT!"

Or the Gaians... Miriam has a definate anti-planet tone to her preaching (hence why she has -1 Planet and cannot choose Green).

Or, the ultimate humiliation... Morganites. Here's the ultimate in worldliness and sin and vice all rolled into one package and shipped across the Planet for public consumption. Where you can indulge in any vice and break any commandment you like on the virtual net. That, to me, is one faction which Miriam loathes the most.

[Guancyto]

Or, the ultimate humiliation... Morganites. Here's the ultimate in worldliness and sin and vice all rolled into one package and shipped across the Planet for public consumption. Where you can indulge in any vice and break any commandment you like on the virtual net. That, to me, is one faction which Miriam loathes the most.

I'm going to go out on a very narrow limb and say the faction that Miriam hates the most is "all of them, possibly in order." Even Yang and Santiago generally don't get on well with her, because they like crusading as much as she does but Yang has the industrial base she wishes she could manage, and Santiago has the weapons she wishes she had. And don't get her started on that self-righteous worshipper of the failed U.N. Charter!

It must get so lonely being evilMiriam.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I'm going to go out on a very narrow limb and say the faction that Miriam hates the most is "all of them, possibly in order." Even Yang and Santiago generally don't get on well with her, because they like crusading as much as she does but Yang has the industrial base she wishes she could manage, and Santiago has the weapons she wishes she had. And don't get her started on that self-righteous worshipper of the failed U.N. Charter!

It must get so lonely being evilMiriam.

True, unlike Mal, she is not a fan of ANY of the seven... herself included :smallbiggrin:

[Jamin]

I happen to think that Miriam has the best quotes in the game by a mile. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

edit Don't really smoke it

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I happen to think that Miriam has the best quotes in the game by a mile. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

edit Don't really smoke it

::puff puff::

She may have some of the best quotes in the game, but that doesn't mean she isn't a self-righteous bigot who pretty much hates everyone.

"Already we have surrendered much of our basic necessities to these... homnocculi. What, pray tell, will happen when they decide that they have no further use for us?

- Sister Miriam Godwinson, "We Must Dissent"

[MickJay]

::puff puff::

She may have some of the best quotes in the game, but that doesn't mean she isn't a self-righteous bigot who pretty much hates everyone.

"Already we have surrendered much of our basic necessities to these... homnocculi. What, pray tell, will happen when they decide that they have no further use for us?

- Sister Miriam Godwinson, "We Must Dissent"

It's not like she hasn't got a point, the Self-Aware Colony project killing off people who did as much as spray a few words on the wall is case in point.

She can't pick Knowledge, not Green (everyone can pick Green and Power). Miriam isn't really anti-planet, she just thinks it's a land where she can do what she and her Chosen People can do what they want, which means they don't care much about weird fungus thing growing around.

[mangosta71]

Yeah, she does have good quotes. But she's an evil bitch.

I think my favorite quote is the one where Zakharov is ranting about exterminating the mind worms. It's really the only time in a quote you see anyone actually lose their cool. I wish I could remember exactly what he says, or even what prompts it.

[Narkis]

"Let the Gaians preach their silly religion, but one way or the other I shall see this compound burned, seared, and sterilized until every hiding place is found and until every last Mind Worm egg, every last slimy one, has been cooked to a smoking husk. That species shall be exterminated, I tell you! Exterminated!

Academician Prokhor Zakharov
Lab Three aftermath "

It's what's said when you first create a temple of Planet. One of my favourites also. In most of my games once I come to dominate the planet, I have my bases crank out mass amounts of Clean Fungicidal Former Gravships. Not once have I managed to completely eradicate the Fungus though.

[Artanis]

"Already we have surrendered much of our basic necessities to these... homnocculi. What, pray tell, will happen when they decide that they have no further use for us?

- Sister Miriam Godwinson, "We Must Dissent"

The answer, of course, being mass nerve staplings :smallbiggrin:

[Douglas]

::puff puff::

She may have some of the best quotes in the game, but that doesn't mean she isn't a self-righteous bigot who pretty much hates everyone.

"Already we have surrendered much of our basic necessities to these... homnocculi. What, pray tell, will happen when they decide that they have no further use for us?

- Sister Miriam Godwinson, "We Must Dissent"
It sounds so much better when you get it right, though. I happen to have actually heard that one pretty recently (played the game a lot over the weekend), and this should be pretty close:

"Already we have turned all of our most critical industries over to these things, these lumps of silver and paste we call nanorobots, and now you propose to teach them intelligence? What, pray tell, will we do when these... homonculi awaken one day and decide that they have no further need... of us."

- Sister Miriam Godwinson, "We Must Dissent"


It's what's said when you first create a temple of Planet. One of my favourites also. In most of my games once I come to dominate the planet, I have my bases crank out mass amounts of Clean Fungicidal Former Gravships. Not once have I managed to completely eradicate the Fungus though.
By the time you can do that it might actually be better to plant fungus everywhere. With +3 planet, the Manifold Harmonics, and all the fungus improving techs, fungus produces 3 nutrients, 4 minerals, and 5 energy per square. On top of that, planting fungus is faster than standard terraforming techniques, and it gives some extra benefits as well if you have the right secret projects.

[Artanis]

I still say mass nerve stapling is the answer.

[Narkis]

By the time you can do that it might actually be better to plant fungus everywhere. With +3 planet, the Manifold Harmonics, and all the fungus improving techs, fungus produces 3 nutrients, 4 minerals, and 5 energy per square. On top of that, planting fungus is faster than standard terraforming techniques, and it gives some extra benefits as well if you have the right secret projects.

True. But forests with both farm improvements are almost just as good, and they have the benefit of not spawning little psionic horrors. And by that time my bases are usually the most pollutive of the planet, and blooms are a usual occurrence. And after a few of them, i just want to exterminate the worms, the fungus, everything local.

[MickJay]

Manifold Harmonics is probably the single biggest TRAP in the game (at least, it always was for me). The production levels jump up so high, that each base with more than 2 or 3 fungus immediately becomes a huge ecological catastrophe in progress... few turns after completion of Harmonics half a dozen of my bases were covered with worms, locusts and were overgrown with even more fungus, which further exacerbated the problem. I was playing Gaians with Green economy, you'd think +3 Planet, Preserves and Temples in each base would help a little, but no...

Gravships+Clean+Fungicidal Formers and Gravship supply transports are the only Gravship designs I use (and the occasional probe, but at that stage I don't need probes on gravships, and rarely probes at all).

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Yeah, she does have good quotes. But she's an evil bitch.

I think my favorite quote is the one where Zakharov is ranting about exterminating the mind worms. It's really the only time in a quote you see anyone actually lose their cool. I wish I could remember exactly what he says, or even what prompts it.

There's another one where Zakharov looses his cool:

"We possess no retroviral capability, we are not researching retroviral engineering. I will not allow Faction Privilege to be violated in this... witchhunt"

as the quote for... researching Retroviral Engineering...

[Douglas]

Manifold Harmonics is probably the single biggest TRAP in the game (at least, it always was for me). The production levels jump up so high, that each base with more than 2 or 3 fungus immediately becomes a huge ecological catastrophe in progress... few turns after completion of Harmonics half a dozen of my bases were covered with worms, locusts and were overgrown with even more fungus, which further exacerbated the problem. I was playing Gaians with Green economy, you'd think +3 Planet, Preserves and Temples in each base would help a little, but no...
There's a major undocumented secret to that little problem: the total number of tree farms, hybrid forests, centauri preserves, and temples of planet you have built after your first fungal bloom, plus the number of fungal blooms you have triggered, is subtracted with no minimum at some point in each base's ecodamage calculation. Do not build any of those four facilities anywhere until you have had a fungal bloom, then build them everywhere. Your ecodamage will plummet. Scrap and rebuild if necessary, it counts the same as building it the first time. In my most recent game, I ended up with bases with over 400 minerals production (all techs, +3 planet, Manifold Harmonics, fungus absolutely everywhere, 40+ size, tons of Nessus Mining Stations, and every production boosting facility) with no ecodamage at all. It took a lot of rebuilding of tree farms and centauri preserves to pull it off, but all the extra minerals from all the fungus made it go pretty quickly.

[Narkis]

There's another one where Zakharov looses his cool:

"We possess no retroviral capability, we are not researching retroviral engineering. I will not allow Faction Privilege to be violated in this... witchhunt"

as the quote for... researching Retroviral Engineering...

That's actually Provost's assistant. And the full quote is:

"The Academician's private residences shall remain off-limits to
the Genetic Inspectors. We possess no retroviral capability,
we are not researching retroviral engineering, and we shall not
allow this Council to violate faction privileges in the name of this
ridiculous witch hunt!"

-- Fedor Petrov,
Vice Provost for University Affairs"

[Caewil]

The ecodamage solution is correct. In one game, I was even able to use around 15 Planet Busters without triggering planet. (at the end, there was only my continent left on the map)

[Miklus]

I once got in a nuclear shootout. It ended with a message "Sea levels will rise 2000m in the next ten years".....:smalleek: I won the game, everybody else drowned.

Anyway, I have a question: The patch I have installed seems to have nerfed the Hive. They are no longer immune to negative efficency ratings. I took Police State and Planned as per usual for the Hive, but ended up with Economic Paralysis. Only the HQ where making any money at all. I did not even have enough money to change to someting else, like Green.

How are you supposed to play the Hive now? With Green economy? Right now I am working on a plan to move all energy to the HQ with supply crawlers...might just work.

[Indon]

There's a major undocumented secret to that little problem: the total number of tree farms, hybrid forests, centauri preserves, and temples of planet you have built after your first fungal bloom, plus the number of fungal blooms you have triggered, is subtracted with no minimum at some point in each base's ecodamage calculation. Do not build any of those four facilities anywhere until you have had a fungal bloom, then build them everywhere. Your ecodamage will plummet. Scrap and rebuild if necessary, it counts the same as building it the first time. In my most recent game, I ended up with bases with over 400 minerals production (all techs, +3 planet, Manifold Harmonics, fungus absolutely everywhere, 40+ size, tons of Nessus Mining Stations, and every production boosting facility) with no ecodamage at all. It took a lot of rebuilding of tree farms and centauri preserves to pull it off, but all the extra minerals from all the fungus made it go pretty quickly.

A stunt I do for more production is to build boreholes outside of the boundaries of any of my cities, then run crawlers to them. I only get a fraction of their production, but zero eco-problems as far as I can tell.

[Caewil]

Minerals are less important than economy late game. I crawl energy from the boreholes, unless using a sea-base.

[Ethdred]

A stunt I do for more production is to build boreholes outside of the boundaries of any of my cities, then run crawlers to them. I only get a fraction of their production, but zero eco-problems as far as I can tell.

You should get half of their production - all the energy or all the minerals (yeah, I know half is a fraction). But it doesn't cause any eco problems - you just need to find enough flat surfaces!

[Caewil]

Actually, Boreholes do cause eco problems, even outside your base squares. But less of a problem if you crawl energy. By late game, you'll have enough facilities that +6 energy will translate to around +12 Econ and Labs.

[MickJay]

I once got in a nuclear shootout. It ended with a message "Sea levels will rise 2000m in the next ten years".....:smalleek: I won the game, everybody else drowned.

Anyway, I have a question: The patch I have installed seems to have nerfed the Hive. They are no longer immune to negative efficency ratings. I took Police State and Planned as per usual for the Hive, but ended up with Economic Paralysis. Only the HQ where making any money at all. I did not even have enough money to change to someting else, like Green.

How are you supposed to play the Hive now? With Green economy? Right now I am working on a plan to move all energy to the HQ with supply crawlers...might just work.

I just played with Hive, no problems; you keep Frontier politics and go Green in the later stages of the game (Planned+Wealth for a while when you really need production). I always thought that Yang's immunity to inefficiency was just too cheesy anyway (you're supposed to have efficiency problems with this setup, why should the player who gets most out of it have no penalties for it?). I played only on Librarian, but I don't think I'd have any problems on Empath, maybe a little on Transcend.

I stopped bothering with Boreholes altogether, I just plant forests everywhere and send out crawlers.

[Miklus]

I just played with Hive, no problems; you keep Frontier politics and go Green in the later stages of the game (Planned+Wealth for a while when you really need production). I always thought that Yang's immunity to inefficiency was just too cheesy anyway (you're supposed to have efficiency problems with this setup, why should the player who gets most out of it have no penalties for it?). I played only on Librarian, but I don't think I'd have any problems on Empath, maybe a little on Transcend.

I stopped bothering with Boreholes altogether, I just plant forests everywhere and send out crawlers.

Actually, my little move-the-energy scheme is going rather well. I'm running police state + planned + knowledge. I have moved my HQ to the top of sunny mesa and build two ecelon (spelling?) mirrors. I'm even working on making a few rivers down the slopes. There are a TON of supply crawlers. I cashed in ten of them to build the supercollider in one turn. I'm currently making 124 labs and 70 energy credits per turn from this base. Let's see if I can get to 500 labs per turn by the end of the game! :smallbiggrin:

[MickJay]

Well, by the end of the game I had ~6000 labs in my main base (majority of that thanks to Transcends, the base had pop. 70+), I didn't even bother much with getting extra energy (it was about 200 total). 3 Transcend Thoughts per turn, the game got a bit silly, then I beat up the last enemy faction into submission, forgetting that if you're allied with everyone it's auto-diplomatic victory. I didn't bother with that game again. :smalltongue:

[Caewil]

600 Labs is nothing really. The best is a sea-base, with all the secret projects and supply skimships at every energy bonus square on water. A handy +6 energy/supply ship, and cheap to 'form and produce.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Wait, I seem to be missing something with the supply. I have merely been using them to build projects in one turn, have they other uses?

[Winterwind]

Wait, I seem to be missing something with the supply. I have merely been using them to build projects in one turn, have they other uses?Well, their primary function is to send resources from any field to their home base.
For further information, as with everything in Alpha Centauri, see the datalinks. :smallwink:

[MickJay]

Apart from speeding up Projects and prototypes, they send full value of one of the resources (min, en. or nut) to their home base, AND can be used to transfer resources from one base to another. Once you get fungus production up, have many forests or use special resource fields, you can easily double or triple resource income in a base (if you have sufficient number of crawlers). Typically, I start sending these babies out once I'm done with key facilities, but in some cases it happens so late in the game (like my last one) that I'm done with all the research, and get few thousand lab points from transcends alone.

[Miklus]

600 Labs is nothing really. The best is a sea-base, with all the secret projects and supply skimships at every energy bonus square on water. A handy +6 energy/supply ship, and cheap to 'form and produce.

Yes, I'm beginning to regret that I did not build my Super Science Base on the coastline. I'm having trouble getting the energy from bases on other islands to it. Simply moving the crawler with a transport ship does not work, there has to be a land connection. I build a needlejet-based crawler, it worked fine, but is rather expensive. Maybe I should raise the land to make a connection. Still, I'm doing 260 labs/turn.

Then the damn Gaians build the Theory of Everything secret projet right under my nose :smallmad: Now I'm beating them up.

Ok, so the Gaians may be better researchers, but let's see if they can deal with ~40 hive bases with nothing better to do than build units. The units are elite too, thanks to the Cyborg Factory secret projet and the high moral special ability. I got the Command Nexus too, of cause.

If you can't outsmart them, beat them up!

[Shpadoinkle]

Dierdre's strange. In one game I (playing as Morgan) made a pact with her because she was being pressured pretty heavily by Lal, so I sent over a ****load of 'copters and blew away all of Lal's forces and let Dierdre have his bases because they were on the other side of the world from where I had built my empire, and I was already large enough that too many more bases would have started causing efficiency problems too big to be worth it. Then once Lal was down to his last half-dozen bases or so, Dierdre decided to declare war on me.

So I forced Lal to surrender to me, then turned all my 'copters around and blew the hell out of Dierdre's forces and said "screw it, I'll just put all the captured bases on Gather Energy and buy the stuff they need," and built a bunch of clean drop troops to occupy her bases (most of which were formerly Lal's) once my copters destroyed her troops. She refused to surrender or declare a truce even once I had her down to her last base and literally had her remaining territory completely surrounded.

I think it ought to be noted that I had been using Green economics the entire game.

[MickJay]

That is unusual, but remember that the AI doesn't "know" the bases you cleared out of troops for other faction to capture were really cleared by you - you might as well capture them yourself and then turn them over as a gift, relationship bonus is much higher. On the other hand, did you use nerve gas or planet busters in that game? If you do, the faction you used them against will never surrender (or, at least, it never happened to me).

[mangosta71]

'Tis true. If you commit an atrocity against one faction, they will fight to the death against you. If the UN Charter has been repealed, all it does is keep the other factions from going to war. But even then, everyone on Planet will declare Vendetta if you use a planet buster.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

'Tis true. If you commit an atrocity against one faction, they will fight to the death against you. If the UN Charter has been repealed, all it does is keep the other factions from going to war. But even then, everyone on Planet will declare Vendetta if you use a planet buster.

Not necessarily everyone. Depending on how Yang feels about you, he doesn't much care one way or the other, neither does Santiago. Of course, I tend to build my faction in a way which pisses them both off (democracy/green/wealth) so I've only had the occasion to realize this once or twice, when I was playing around with some optimization options.

But yea, no one likes Planet Busters, and using one tends to build an Arms Race where all sides get a dozen or more fairly rapidly.

[Shpadoinkle]

I only performed one atrocity the whole game, and that was dropping a planetbuster on Dierdre's last base. I'd already subjugated Lal and Yang, and everyone else had been eliminated.

[Caewil]

'Tis true. If you commit an atrocity against one faction, they will fight to the death against you. If the UN Charter has been repealed, all it does is keep the other factions from going to war. But even then, everyone on Planet will declare Vendetta if you use a planet buster.
Not really. I managed to use all of mine without anyone objecting. All 15 or so busters. Of course, I had already subjugated most of the other faction leaders by conquest. If you've repealed the charter, you can use as many planet busters as you want, I think. Just make sure you get a lot of orbital defense pods afterward.