Question about Divine Ranks

[ShadowFighter15]

Is there any official way for a player-character to attain a Divine Rank? I know it's one of the steps for Pun-Pun, but I'm just asking partly out of curiosity and partly because I might be able to get a character concept out of it.

[Devils_Advocate]

Deities and Demigods discusses several possible methods of divine ascension, but leaves the specifics up to the DM.

On Oerth (the world of Greyhawk), I think you can become a demigod by getting an existing deity to sponsor you. I believe that Ao controls godhood in the Forgotten Realms, but I think that you can usurp the power of a god you kill. (Good luck doing that as a mortal.)

I vaguely recall seeing something about some special feat or PrC or something that gives a dragon Divine Rank 0. Probably Epic.

[quick_comment]

I vaguely recall seeing something about some special feat or PrC or something that gives a dragon Divine Rank 0. Probably Epic.

Dragon Ascendant prc. It requires something like a great wyrm with a bunch of character levels to even start taking.

Other than that, divine ranks are given out only by DM fiat.

[Yuki Akuma]

Simplest way to become a deity: Get another deity to make you their proxy.

Oh, sure, you're now their slave and must do everything they say or risk losing your divinity, but you have a Divine Rank of 1!

[Devils_Advocate]

Another thing left vague is how to increase your divine rank once you have one. Divine rank (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm#divineRanks) is described as corresponding to number of worshipers, but this isn't explicitly stated to be a hard and fast rule, and no precise formula is given.

[Douglas]

Simplest way to become a deity: Get another deity to make you their proxy.

Oh, sure, you're now their slave and must do everything they say or risk losing your divinity, but you have a Divine Rank of 1!
This is, in fact, how Pun-pun does it. Except he makes duplicates of the deities in question using an utterly broken spell called Ice Assassin, and the duplicates are under his control so he doesn't have to worry about obeying them.

[ShadowFighter15]

@Devils_Advocate: I'll have a look at that book; I don't have a copy yet but I have *ahem* methods. <.< >.>

And yeah, it was Dragon Ascendant, though one of the early steps in it (probably a requirement, actually, but I'm not sure) was for the dragon to eat it's own hoard. I think it'd take a few centuries for a dragon to work up the courage to do that.

@Yuki: That's one method I'm trying to avoid; what's the point in becoming a god if another one's got you under their thumb?

@douglas: I read that method up on the D&D wiki, but that assumes pure RAW which I'm trying to avoid. I want a method that a DM wouldn't veto immediately.


I have this idea of a character wanting to become a god for one reason or another (haven't gotten that far, was going to leave it til after I worked out if he can become a god at all).

[arguskos]

Well, the best method I've seen involves sponsorship to a good-aligned deity. Work under him for awhile, and eventually say "look, I've been a good aid to you, and I'd like to strike off on my own. We can still be divine allies, in fact, I'd love that, but I want some space and to try this whole 'god' thing on my own for awhile." Being a good-aligned god, and seeing as how you spent 100 years aiding him or somesuch, he'll probably go along with it.

Ta-da! You are now your own free deity. Enjoy the perks.

EDIT: If you're evil, do the above, but at your first chance, either kill your boss or some lesser rivals. Take their divine ranks. If it's some rivals you are killing, when you have enough power, take out your own boss and usurp his place in the heavens. :smallbiggrin:

[chiasaur11]

This is, in fact, how Pun-pun does it. Except he makes duplicates of the deities in question using an utterly broken spell called Ice Assassin, and the duplicates are under his control so he doesn't have to worry about obeying them.

And then he gives divine ranks to squirrels so he can take them back and get more ranks, while the squirrels still have divine rank 0.

Everybody wins!

[Olo Demonsbane]

What happens if you are a divine proxy and the god you obey is killed?

[Yuki Akuma]

What happens if you are a divine proxy and the god you obey is killed?

Then you remain a proxy of a dead god and keep the divine rank, as there's no one around to will it back.

Good luck avoiding whatever killed your god in the first place.

[Karuma]

Quickest way to become a god: Jump Imhotep.

[Devils_Advocate]

@Devils_Advocate: I'll have a look at that book; I don't have a copy yet but I have *ahem* methods. <.< >.>
Ah, yes, methods. I would know significantly less about D&D without methods.

I guess that a dead god's proxy or proxies might become his low-powered replacement(s), taking up parts of his portfolio. Might be a good opportunity to increase your divine rank if you can convince many of your dead god's followers to make you their new patron deity. Though, as with all other methods of divine ascension: Good luck with that.

[chiasaur11]

Then you remain a proxy of a dead god and keep the divine rank, as there's no one around to will it back.

Good luck avoiding whatever killed your god in the first place.

So, if you kill your employer, you get a free divine rank?

Awesome.

[infinitypanda]

Quickest way to become a god: Jump Imhotep.

But Imhotep is invisible!

[Sstoopidtallkid]

@Devils_Advocate: I'll have a look at that book; I don't have a copy yet but I have *ahem* methods. <.< >.>

And yeah, it was Dragon Ascendant, though one of the early steps in it (probably a requirement, actually, but I'm not sure) was for the dragon to eat it's own hoard. I think it'd take a few centuries for a dragon to work up the courage to do that.Which book, and what exactly are the requirements? I want to see how low-level a Kobold I can do it with.

[Sanguine]

Which book, and what exactly are the requirements? I want to see how low-level a Kobold I can do it with.

Draconomicon, and you have to be a true dragon.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Draconomicon, and you have to be a true dragon.You aren't familiar with the Dragonwrought feat, are you?

For reference, it makes a Kobold a Dragon instead of a (Reptilian)(Dragonblooded) Humanoid. And you hit Great Wyrm after only a hundred years, instead of a couple thousand.

[Sanguine]

You aren't familiar with the Dragonwrought feat, are you?

For reference, it makes a Kobold a Dragon instead of a (Reptilian)(Dragonblooded) Humanoid. And you hit Great Wyrm after only a hundred years, instead of a couple thousand.

No, never heard of that feat before. Sounds cheesy. But any who you would need to acquire a hoard as you need to eat said hoard before you can take levels in the class. You also need a DM who will allow a pc to take the prestige class. So good luck making a Kobold one.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

No, never heard of that feat before. Sounds cheesy. But any who you would need to acquire a hoard as you need to eat said hoard before you can take levels in the class. You also need a DM who will allow a pc to take the prestige class. So good luck making a Kobold one.You aren't familiar with the concept of 'Theoretical Optimization' either, are you?

At the least, my current DM is reading this thread and would kibosh any attempt to introduce a Kobold on my part anyways(because of all the fun I can have with them), but also, it would be rude to ruin a game like that. Doesn't stop me from wanting to see if it's possible, though.

[sofawall]

I do believe there is the rather limiting factor of a BAB requirement, though I could be mistaken.

[ShadowFighter15]

Dragonwrought kobolds may be dragons, but they aren't true dragons. And since the main requirement of Dragon Ascendant is "Any true dragon", Dragonwrought kobolds aren't able to take levels in it.

EDIT: Also, as the above-poster said; there's a high BAB requirement. +30 to be precise. They also need a lot of feats and the hoard has to be worth at least 100,000gp. They can't just consume 100 grand worth of the hoard; they have to devour the whole thing regardless of how far above 100,000 it's worth.

[tyckspoon]

No, never heard of that feat before. Sounds cheesy. But any who you would need to acquire a hoard as you need to eat said hoard before you can take levels in the class. You also need a DM who will allow a pc to take the prestige class. So good luck making a Kobold one.

It only needs a minimum of 100,000 gp worth of stuff. So level 13 wealth by level.. you'll have far in excess of that if you're anywhere near actually qualifying for Dragon Ascendant (which requires BAB +30 [or, more accurately for most characters, BAB +20 and Epic Attack Bonus +10. Which puts you all the way up at level 40 before you can even begin the class, and level 52 once you've finished it. The Dragon PrCs are meant for epic beings.) And if you manage to do all of that, you're still only a quasi-deity- the class gives you the traits of Divine Rank 0, not Divine Rank 1.

Being made the proxy of an existing god is the only RAW method I know of to gain a full Divine Rank. Anything else requires knowing how divinity works in a particular campaign setting, and that is the prerogative of your DM.

[chiasaur11]

No, never heard of that feat before. Sounds cheesy. But any who you would need to acquire a hoard as you need to eat said hoard before you can take levels in the class. You also need a DM who will allow a pc to take the prestige class. So good luck making a Kobold one.

Kobolds make their own luck.

Which is good, as the luck they have to start with?

Kinda crappy.

[kamikasei]

I want a method that a DM wouldn't veto immediately.

A sensible DM would probably immediately veto any RAW method to become a god, because it's pretty much inevitably broken. If you want ascension to be a goal of your character, rather than something you want to have happen in the game and play on after, just work with your DM to come up with a suitable method you could work towards.

[Doc Roc]

On Oerth (the world of Greyhawk), I think you can become a demigod by getting an existing deity to sponsor you. I believe that Ao controls godhood in the Forgotten Realms, but I think that you can usurp the power of a god you kill. (Good luck doing that as a mortal.)


Depending on who you pick, it can actually be trivially easy. We worked it out after about a month on the WotCO boards.

[Devils_Advocate]

Diplomacy cheese, I'm guessing?

Meeting the god in the first place is the obvious challenge there. But theoretically you could start with a 1st-level priest and work your way up the church hierarchy.

[Alleine]

I don't think a kobold could get into the dragon ascendant anyway. True dragons are capable of great feats of metabolism, managing to consume their hoard/solid rock/other random objects not usually considered consumable. I'm pretty sure even dragonwrought kobolds aren't capable of that, since I don't recall any dragon type creatures being able to eat what true dragons can eat.

[arguskos]

At the least, my current DM is reading this thread and would kibosh any attempt to introduce a Kobold on my part anyways(because of all the fun I can have with them), but also, it would be rude to ruin a game like that. Doesn't stop me from wanting to see if it's possible, though.
/smack. You should know better. :smalltongue:

Also, I still think that my method is the best RAW way to gain divine ranks. Since gods grant them (by RAW), the only really safe way to get any is to buddy up. :smallamused: