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TheOverlord
2009-06-02, 08:03 AM
I have gotten a kick out of discussing how we as DM's keep our players on their toes and coming back. I would love to hear some of other people's tricks of the trade. What do you do to balance story-telling, role-playing, hack-in-slash, fun, and utterly destroying the party.

To start things off I adopted a "Keep them Guessing" mantra as most of my players are pretty experienced. Their knowledge of creatures, mechanics and rules is impressive and because of that they are a hard lot to keep interested. I started using more and more template and advanced monsters (http://www.monsteradvancer.com)so that now when they see the Red Dragon instead of rushing in to kill it for its loot, they stop just long enough to go...do you think cone of cold is even going to work...I am going to go with cacophonic burst just to be safe. They no longer take anything for granted because what is a monster without the guesswork and investigation...and perhaps just a bit of fear. Fueling their paranoia has fueled the roleplaying and I have added in guesswork without completely throwing out all the knowledge they already have.

--The Overlord
Monster Advancer
D&D 3.5 Monster & NPC Generation (and random encounters too!) (http://www.monsteradvancer.com)
(This thread is the reason that I eventually made the Monster Advancer btw)

derfenrirwolv
2009-06-02, 09:11 AM
http://www.geneticanomaly.com/RPG-Motivational/slides/gamemasters.html


This is basically what you need to do. If you develop a villain, a dungeon, or an adventure you need to throw in more detail than you can possibly use (and then make a will save to avoid trying to have it all come up in the adventure anyway) Just in case it comes up.

TheOverlord
2009-06-02, 10:16 AM
Prepping a creature you took hours to build only to have him one-shotted by a disintegrate spell is always nice.

TheOverlord
2009-06-04, 04:26 PM
I know my players well enough that it is nice when you can guess that they will go "off topic" and you have already prepared for that. You ease into it subtly and perhaps even pretend to be upset or surprised by their choices and then you spring the off-topic prep on 'em. It is priceless! When the players can't tell when you are in improv mode or full-prep mode you are doing something right.

The Overlord
D&D 3.5 Monster Advancer - Monster, NPC and Random Encounter generation, customization and advancement. (http://www.monsteradvancer.com)

Xallace
2009-06-04, 05:11 PM
I don't usually do anything mechanically other than change some fluff, but story-wise I like to have my characters lost in shades of grey for most of the time... only to have the black-and-white grandly revealed at the appropriate time.

It worked better than I thought when I tried it, honestly, as long as the reveal isn't too obvious or too cliche. My players talked about it for half an hour straight when they realized that their patron and the supposed BBEG were giving the exact same story to their respective mercenaries. I wasn't expecting to provoke such an intense discussion, believe me!

(Of course, they don't yet know that both are the villains, and working together! Mwahaha!)

Thajocoth
2009-06-04, 06:03 PM
http://www.geneticanomaly.com/RPG-Motivational/slides/gamemasters.html


This is basically what you need to do. If you develop a villain, a dungeon, or an adventure you need to throw in more detail than you can possibly use (and then make a will save to avoid trying to have it all come up in the adventure anyway) Just in case it comes up.

I started my first adventure and failed that Will save. Now I'm trying to fix it.

I made a little bit of starting info everyone gets on the setting, then a line or two of common knowledge per town... Then a paragraph for each race a player could've chosen to play as. (They get the appropriate paragraph when they start.) The other paragraphs could be gotten by talking to the right people or making the right checks. Then I had the mission require a tour of half the places in the region, but without letting the players know which half, and hiding the last one. The people they're trying to find are part of an organization so secret, only they know about it, so no NPC help. The fact that I sorta owe them loot doesn't help either.

Now, to fix it, I'm sending them a message via animal messenger as they leave their current locale. The Goblinoids of Keegora have enough spies to know of the secret organization and want the PCs to succeed. Now that they've located the PCs, they're sending them a message to try to direct them.

So no, mine's not... At least not yet.

TheThan
2009-06-04, 06:20 PM
One of the tricks that I use is to make every battle count. Every time they kill something, there is a reason behind it. Sure the reasons may be simple like “they don’t like your smell” but it works. It keeps the players and the character engaged in what’s going on. It’s lead to the players and character second-guessing why they are fighting.

Another thing I do is to make every dungeon part of the world. Each one has a reason for being there. There is a reason why it’s inhabited my monsters, and a reason why the party has to go there.

Nothing breaks [story mode] faster than “there is a dungeon two miles outside of town, the party goes to loot it.” Instead I like something like this “a prospector discovered an ancient crypt two miles outside of town, he disappeared two days after he found it, we need heroes to go and find him, bring him back and destory whatever the prospector released.”

TheOverlord
2009-06-05, 10:08 AM
One of the tricks that I use is to make every battle count. Every time they kill something, there is a reason behind it.

This is very similar to one of my most recent beliefs. (There is some irony here we shall see if anyone catches it). That is that there should be no such thing as "random" encounters. Find some way to always tie everything back into the campaign. Maybe the random bears attacking in the wilderness have the remains of some lost diplomat from the city that relates to the current quest and provides another avenue of investigation. Things like that...where they may be "random" but there is always a tie in so the combat has a point.

The Overlord
D&D 3.5 Monster Advancer - Monster, NPC and Random Encounter generation, customization and advancement. (http://www.monsteradvancer.com)

AzazelSephiroth
2009-06-08, 10:23 PM
I love to give my players creatures or people who act in the complete opposite way than my players expect. Such as the Hill Giant dressed in Armor who suddenly pulls out a spell or magic item. Or once I actually made them fight a green Displacer beast... no special abilities just a different color... they spent an entire session trying to research and discover what had happened to the Displacer beast population!
Then again I have seen dirst hand that too much of this and they can get pretty fed up or wise to the tricks.

TheThan
2009-06-08, 10:36 PM
Yeah, I loath random encounters. I also loath being attacked while asleep. Sure its ok once in a while. But when you are camping out and you get attacked every time you stop and rest for the night, it gets really old, really fast.

Meek
2009-06-08, 11:02 PM
I do weird random crap.

Like turning an entire D&D 4e combat encounter into a skill challenge, where everyone rolls skill checks and not attack rolls. That'll teach you to pay attention to things other than your DPS. I tend to throw in skill checks into every combat too.

For example, there was a fight in a random anachronistic sewage place with pipes and stuff, nobody thought they were anything but background flavor, until smart critters starting bashing the pipes or opening floodgates. I tend to give players a good environment where if they tell me they want to do something with a prop or the environment, they can roll me a check and do it if it seems plausible. But that smart creatures, especially with home field advantage, will do those things too.

Also, I've hardly ever used a monster manual critter for 4th Edition that I didn't modify in some way. Typically on the spot. While players were rolling Initiative.

FoE
2009-06-08, 11:05 PM
I periodically shoot at them. It doesn't help player turnover, but it does wonders for keeping the group alert.

Meek
2009-06-08, 11:17 PM
I periodically shoot at them. It doesn't help player turnover, but it does wonders for keeping the group alert.

That's extreme. I prefer a deterring method. I put the gun on the table in front of me, and fill up a glass of vodka. Every stupid or annoying thing they do I drink. Enough drinks and then I may just shoot somebody. Or everybody.

Lert, A.
2009-06-08, 11:18 PM
This is very similar to one of my most recent beliefs. (There is some irony here we shall see if anyone catches it). That is that there should be no such thing as "random" encounters. Find some way to always tie everything back into the campaign. Maybe the random bears attacking in the wilderness have the remains of some lost diplomat from the city that relates to the current quest and provides another avenue of investigation. Things like that...where they may be "random" but there is always a tie in so the combat has a point.

It always becomes so sweet when your players start looking for clues from every encounter. Little do they know, that pack of thugs that tried to roll them (and failed miserably) were just some stupid thugs. The players chasing the leads and getting involved with the local politics of the underworld made them miss an opportunity to curtail the BBEGs plot before it began.

But, hey, if they still want to save the nation from everlasting slavery they can go for it. Against the now prepared army.

EDIT:
That's extreme. I prefer a deterring method. I put the gun on the table in front of me, and fill up a glass of vodka. Every stupid or annoying thing they do I drink. Enough drinks and then I may just shoot somebody. Or everybody.

Bah! A full glass should be the opening gambit! The session should not start until after half the bottle is gone.

The players think that they are clever and can throw me off my game with their antics? HAH!! A partially liquored up Russian, with a few bottles in reserve for a DM will throw the fear into them, mark my word.

valadil
2009-06-08, 11:37 PM
One of the tricks that I use is to make every battle count. Every time they kill something, there is a reason behind it. Sure the reasons may be simple like “they don’t like your smell” but it works. It keeps the players and the character engaged in what’s going on. It’s lead to the players and character second-guessing why they are fighting.


Whoo, damn right! Random encounters have no place in a story (though a simulation is another matter). That said, I will use encounters that appear random until more information comes to light after the combat.

My DMing trick involves doing several plots in parallel. I spawn as many threads as possible, then tie them into the one big uber plot. These days I don't even have an uber plot at game start. I just roll with whatever is interesting. Bringing the plots together keeps the players on their toes. They rarely foresee what I'm about to do. And every plot twist builds on plot they were previously following, so we get a lot of momentum going from one session to the next.

Note: If it sounds like I'm an arrogant bastard based on the description I gave, please bear in mind that what I described is my goal in GMing. Sometimes I achieve it, sometimes not. But that's the type of game I'm aiming for and the direction my games are usually pointed in, even if they never get there.

Animefunkmaster
2009-06-09, 12:05 AM
While I enjoying surprising my PCs (especially in a hack in slash) I have few qualms about them knowing monsters (the encounter has more things, like magical loot the monster uses and traps/minions to synergize and make the combat interesting).

However I ran into problem in a game where I was using alien creatures from outer space. In that game I used the psuedonatural template to represent alien influence over stock creatures. A canny player who knew the template reminded the players there DR was over magic and that they have SR based on HD and to burn it with fire as opposed to other elements (he didn't specifically remember which energy resistance, just that fire worked). All in all it wouldn't have been that bad if he weren't the barbarian and the knowledge monkey grabbed slightly less info.

For an unrelated group (who had just as much dnd experience if not mroe) who was going up against a cult sect of the silver flame (future eberron/dragonmech). I had given many of the cult members halfdragon templates but flavored it as a spell that transformed them slightly, silveryflame erupted around there body and they could extend there hand and have it erupt outward (breath weapon). I liked how that worked better, the wizard made a good knowledge check and I explained the results all the while the PCs thought I massively home brewed something but all i did was allow half dragon to be acquired via a 7th level spell. The party is in possession of such a spell but believe it to be about as risky as the head of vecna, so they are waiting for further research on it (I like to throw templates at my pcs and see what they do with them, it throws off there build so few PCs have a 1-20 build because of it).

Origomar
2009-06-09, 12:11 AM
Yeah, I loath random encounters. I also loath being attacked while asleep. Sure its ok once in a while. But when you are camping out and you get attacked every time you stop and rest for the night, it gets really old, really fast.

Well, unless it ties into the story like your a team of bodyguards for a diplomat or something :)

Yahzi
2009-06-09, 12:21 AM
I run a simulationist game. Basically, I put a world out there, and then the players tell me what they're going to do.

In my world, levels come from eating people's souls, so the evil parties always have something to do (figure out how to eat more souls) and the good parties always have something to do (kill the bad guys). Even the neutral parties have something to do (avoid being eaten).

Right now my plot is that there is a mind-flayer hidden in the kingdom, and sooner or later he is going to signal his brethren, and then dozens of mind-flayers and thousands of their slave-monsters will eat the entire kingdom.

This kind of gives them a sense of urgency while they level up, search for the mind-flayer, kill his spies and servants, fight ordinary bad guys who just happen to be evil, and try to decide if the king (who still scares them even at 10th level) is a mind-flayer dupe, ally, or slave.

See? All you have to do is start the campaign with, "And soon, everyone will be eaten," and the rest takes care of itself.