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Melamoto
2009-06-02, 11:02 AM
Just a quick question: Whilst the rules say that
The servant cannot attack in any way; it is never allowed an attack roll.does that apply to any objects they hold or just them?
And also, could it lift up a sword or some other sharp object above somebodies head, and then drop it on them? Some might say that is an attack, but I really doubt that the cosmic forces would just make the sword automatically miss.
And what if it lifted up a series of sharp objects, held them around a target in a ring shape, and then moved them inwards? Surely that can't be stopped by some effect?

Zaq
2009-06-02, 11:50 AM
I had a topic about this a couple weeks ago. Never really got a satisfactory answer, though.

I would say that if it were above the target, it could be ordered to drop an item into their square, and they would get a very easy (probably DC 10 or 11) reflex save to avoid it completely. But that's just my gut ruling, with no basis in the text.

Keld Denar
2009-06-02, 12:51 PM
The best use of an Unseen Servant is to make it stand in front of you. Its got a decent duration, so at mid-high levels, you can keep one up at all times with a couple of Pearl of Power 1s. Keep it about 10-15' in front of you. If something tries to charge you, it'll be blocked by the US and its charge will be broken. Sure, that'll destroy the US, but negating an enemy charge as a non-action is well worth a 1st level spell slot.

Its not foolproof, but it does work.

Starscream
2009-06-02, 12:55 PM
Yeah, having a sword drop on you from above probably doesn't count as an attack. The servant is mindless after all, and can't aim. Even a mindless construct or undead has limbs and some semblance of life, but the unseen servant is just a shapeless invisible force.

A simple reflex save seems the best bet. Maybe the DC will increase if it falls only a short distance because there isn't much time to react, but if it only falls a few feet I doubt the sword will do very much damage compared to an actual swing.

Darrin
2009-06-02, 12:57 PM
Just a quick question: Whilst the rules say that does that apply to any objects they hold or just them?
And also, could it lift up a sword or some other sharp object above somebodies head, and then drop it on them? Some might say that is an attack, but I really doubt that the cosmic forces would just make the sword automatically miss.


Anything that involves an attack roll automatically misses. However, an unseen servant can drop an object on a target or into a specific square. This would be treated as a "Falling Object" (DMG p. 303). Now, it may be possible by RAW that anything dropped on a target automatically hits (the rules make no mention of an attack roll or a Ref save), although most reasonable DMs would allow a Ref save to avoid a falling object.

An unseen servant trying to do this has several problems. First, it can only lift 20 lbs. Second, a 20 lb falling object needs to be at least 50' over a target's head before it does only 1d6 damage. If it's a lighter object, such as a 4 lb sword, then it needs to be at least 70' above the target's head. So not only does the spellcaster's level need to be high enough to allow the unseen servant to go up that high (range = 25' + 5'/2 CL), an unseen servant's fly speed of 15' means that it will take several rounds to get up there. For only 1d6 damage... so good luck with that.

There are some other things you can do with unseen servants that may do more damage. For example:

1) Buy 19 flasks of acid and a sack (190.1 GP). Put the flasks in the sack and give it to your unseen servant. Tell it to fly 15' over a target and empty/drop the sack. The flasks either can't hit the target or bounce off of him without doing any damage. However, they do take falling damage when they hit the ground, and shatter for 19 splash damage, 5' radius burst. Roll 1d4 to determine which corner of the target square is the center of the burst.

2) Buy a feather token: swan boat (DMG, 450 GP). Ask your DM how much the boat weighs. He may look confused, and start digging through his books. Stop him there, and just ask him, "Ok, well, it can carry 8 horses or 32 men, so it's at least 20' x 40', about the size of a keelboat (PHB p. 132), which can carry 40 to 50 tons of cargo... so more than a couple tons, at least?" If he says yes, wait until the DM springs a grudge monster on the party. Give the swan boat to your unseen servant, and tell it to fly 15' over the creature, and activate the boat. Whoever is under that 20' x 40' boat takes 20d6 damage from a 4000-lb falling object, no save, and is probably still squished under a big effin' boat. (The damage from a falling object caps at 20d6, so all we need to know is if it weighs more than 4000 lbs, and did it fall 10'.)



And what if it lifted up a series of sharp objects, held them around a target in a ring shape, and then moved them inwards? Surely that can't be stopped by some effect?

I'm not entirely sure what you're describing here... how is a single unseen servant supposed to surround a target with multiple objects and then move them all inwards simultaneously? But ok, let's try and simplify the scenario: target is surrounded by walls on three sides. Give the unseen servant a small-sized darkwood tower shield with spikes on it. Order it to push the tower shield into the target's square from the one side where he isn't blocked by a wall.

The unseen servant can't make an attack roll, so this situation would most likely be handled as a bull rush or overrun. The unseen servant would provoke an AoO from the target, which could attempt to attack the unseen servant (good luck there) or sunder the object moving into his square.

If the target wants to treat it as a bull rush, then make an opposed strength check against the unseen servant (note: there is a very small possibility that the unseen servant could actually push someone back this way). If the target wins, the unseen servant moves 5' back and has to stop. If the unseen servant wins, the target would try to move 5', hit a wall, and fall prone.

If the target wants to treat it as an overrun, then he can choose to avoid the unseen servant, which can keep moving through that square... if it runs into a wall, it could probably move up or back the way it came. If he chooses not to avoid, then opposed strength checks. If the unseen servant wins, the target is knocked prone. If the target wins, he may choose to make another opposed strength check to knock the unseen servant prone and back 5'.

This of course assumes that you can determine the size of a mindless, shapeless force, and you've addressed whatever it means for that shapeless force to be "knocked prone". Since an unseen servant is capable of performing most mundane tasks done by unskilled humanoids, it's probably safe to assume it's roughly the same size as a medium humanoid. I leave the problem of how to knock it prone as an exercise for the reader.

Oh, and if you want an official magic item with unseen servant at will, "Collar of Perpetual Attendance" (2000 GP):

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fools/20030401c

RagnaroksChosen
2009-06-02, 03:00 PM
could you not have it drop alchemys fire or thunderstones or vials of acid on people or just poor them out..


Heh suicide bomber unseen servents...

Ok hold these bottles of oil/alchemist fire/something that will explode... and go follow that enemy around...

Then its just trying to hit the unseen servent...

I think that would be viable....

Actualy that could be very viable at low levels...

or dropping tangle foot bags.

Krrth
2009-06-02, 04:34 PM
Easy way to look at it IMO: If it would trigger invisibility, it would count as an attack.

yilduz
2009-06-02, 05:11 PM
2) Buy a feather token: swan boat (DMG, 450 GP). Ask your DM how much the boat weighs. He may look confused, and start digging through his books. Stop him there, and just ask him, "Ok, well, it can carry 8 horses or 32 men, so it's at least 20' x 40', about the size of a keelboat (PHB p. 132), which can carry 40 to 50 tons of cargo... so more than a couple tons, at least?" If he says yes, wait until the DM springs a grudge monster on the party. Give the swan boat to your unseen servant, and tell it to fly 15' over the creature, and activate the boat. Whoever is under that 20' x 40' boat takes 20d6 damage from a 4000-lb falling object, no save, and is probably still squished under a big effin' boat. (The damage from a falling object caps at 20d6, so all we need to know is if it weighs more than 4000 lbs, and did it fall 10'.)]

:smalleek:

US has always been one of my favorite spells to play with. Getting it to do different things for me usually gets the attention of the DM in a "wow, that was a clever way to handle the situation" kind of way. I never really thought about it doing damage, though. I really like this idea. I may have to try it just to try it. :smallbiggrin: