:readcloak: Some of us actually got passing grades in chem.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Chemistry in 3.5 DnD!

Bases
Very strong bases deal 1d4 points of damage, or 10d4 per round of full immersion. Damage from a base is base damage.
Base resistance/Acid resistance
Creatures taking damage from bases that are immune to acid take double damage unless the creature is resistant or immune to base damage. A creature resistant to acid takes extra damage equal to its acid resistance (no more than double) unless it is resistant or immune to base. The reverse also applies.

What I want to make/see: "True" (:redcloak:-ey) elementals
Acid+base
Chemist

[Stormthorn]

Bases tend to be more toxic if ingested. Perhaps they should also be a poison. I mean, you can drink lemon juice but not cleaning solution despite the fact that they have similar PH levels (on opposite ends of the scale).


Can you stat out HF?

[Pyrusticia]

Bases tend to be more toxic if ingested. Perhaps they should also be a poison. I mean, you can drink lemon juice but not cleaning solution despite the fact that they have similar PH levels (on opposite ends of the scale).

Actually, I think it's fine leaving them as a contact poison. Any contact poison (or at least, every one I can think of) does more damage when ingested, and the DM should take that into account should someone manage to ingest a contact poison. Being classified as contact means that they can do damage through contact (which most 'ingested poisons' can't), not that contact is the only way they do damage.

As for your comparison of bleach and lemon juice...assuming that you are correct as to their relative ratings, what that suggests to me isn't that bases are more harmful than acids, but rather that humans have a mild acid resistance (one or two points, probably). Dunno that it'd be worth giving it to them, though, since that would create the hassle of rebalancing the races. :smalltongue:

[Salt_Crow]

Of course, it's just basic chemistry!


*runs away*

[Galileo]

Cool idea.

So... my +2 alkali longsword deals 1d8 base damage, then some more base damage?

[Mercenary Pen]

Would it make more sense to refer to this as Alkali or Alkaline damage, on the grounds that the word base can be used to mean many different things.

[Pyrusticia]

Would it make more sense to refer to this as Alkali or Alkaline damage, on the grounds that the word base can be used to mean many different things.

Agreed. I'm reminded of the early OOTS strip (up a (character) level, down a (dungeon) level, and spell level). Let's avoid setting ourselves up for a sequel, shall we? :smallamused:

[lesser_minion]

D&D acid damage is really genericsauce 'chemical attack' damage - the designers didn't bother to take into account the different effects of different chemicals because:

There are a lot, and it's simpler to just provide a generic rule Fantasy chemistry != real-world chemistry


In D&D, bases would actually deal 'acid' damage. Acid resistance comes from chemical stability (or magic!) more than from being acidic in some way.

You are right that it might be worth making a more detailed set of rules for acids and bases for use in the D&D game, however.

The basic rule, though is that a D&D 'acid' is any chemical that deals direct damage by attacking tissues, whether acid-base theories assert that the chemical is acting as an acid or as a base.

In fact, proteins can be hydrolysed (broken down) by both acids and bases. I'm pretty sure that the both achieve functionally the same end results, no matter which one you throw into someone's face.

[Zeta Kai]

Won't someone please think of the catgirls! :smallbiggrin:

Seriously though, if we're gonna get all scientific, then we should consider pH levels. Perhaps we should scale the effects thusly:

{table=head]pH|Damage per Round
-1|4d6
0|2d6
1|1d6
2|1d3
3-11|No Damage
12|1d3
13|1d6
14|2d6
15|4d6
[/table]
Or something like that. Thoughts?

[Mercenary Pen]

Won't someone please think of the catgirls! :smallbiggrin:

Seriously though, if we're gonna get all scientific, then we should consider pH levels. Perhaps we should scale the effects thusly:

{table=head]pH|Damage per Round
0|2d6
1|1d6
2|1d4
3-11|No Damage
12|1d4
13|1d6
14|2d6
[/table]
Or something like that. Thoughts?

Good start, but apparently there's also a pH -1, which would give acids overall dominance.

[Zeta Kai]

Good start, but apparently there's also a pH -1, which would give acids overall dominance.

Fixed, k?

[rogueboy]

As for your comparison of bleach and lemon juice...assuming that you are correct as to their relative ratings, what that suggests to me isn't that bases are more harmful than acids, but rather that humans have a mild acid resistance (one or two points, probably).

I feel the need to point out that ingesting acids/bases puts them into our stomach, which is a 1M HCl (pH 0) bath, essentially. As such, our stomach lining (and the rest of our digestive tract, to some minor degree) can withstand fairly strong acids. And I believe that the problem with ingesting bleach (sodium hypochlorite, or NaOCl) comes from the combination of the basicity and the free chloride ions when our body attempts to break down the bleach.

Also, I'm forced to ask, if only because I use the stuff regularly (I'm a chem major), how would we deal with butyl lithium (pKa 50), lithium diisopropyl amine (LDA, pKa 36)? For those who don't know the pKa scale, each unit is an order of magnitude, and hydroxide ions (what is generally called a "strong" base) has a pKa of 16. I suppose there's also the pyrophoric (ignites on contact to air) nature of butyl lithium... OK, I'll stop asking stupid questions that no one in their right mind should even think to ask regarding this now.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Not many people agree with me...:smallfrown:

I chose the damage (and to use damage at all) on a.) false assumptions, b.) the idea that acids and bases are opposites, and c.) the idea that I might be able to integraye them more easily into D&D.
Spells
Spells that deal acid damage can be modified to deal base damage, but deal damage as if 1 die smaller.
Items
If an item deals acid damage, a basic version can be made. It deals damage with a damage die 1 size smaller.

The apparent nerfs are to account for the fact that bases work better against anything with acid resistance/immunity.

Wizard: Flem's Basic Bolt
Black Dragon: Acid canno...wait, base?

[lesser_minion]

Won't someone please think of the catgirls! :smallbiggrin:

Seriously though, if we're gonna get all scientific, then we should consider pH levels. Perhaps we should scale the effects thusly:

{table=head]pH|Damage per Round
-1|3d6
0|2d6
1|1d6
2|1d3
3-11|No Damage
12|1d3
13|1d6
14|2d6
15|3d6
[/table]
Or something like that. Thoughts?

pH measures the order of magnitude of hydrogen ion concentration (in mol.dm-3) in a solution. It's not always a great measure of acid/base strength, but in this context it's pretty handy.

Obligatory wikipedia links:

Bronstead-Lowry theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronsted-Lowry_theory)
Lewis theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_acids_and_bases)

The main acids you're thinking about (with pH) are Bronstead-Lowry acids.

To Great Wyrm Gold:

An acid is a substance which donates protons (positively-charged hydrogen ions) to water. A base is a substance which accepts them. This leads to conjugate pairs - an acid can exist in its 'complete' form, or it can break down to give a proton and the acid's conjugate base (the stronger the acid, the weaker its conjugate base). A base can exist in its 'basic' form or in its protonated form - which is a weak acid.
Water can do both - in a basic solution, more water breaks up to release hydrogen ions, while in acidic solution, the water accepts protons to form protonated water (H3O+). Protonated water is acidic - add a strong base and it will break up before any water does. At the same time, OH- is basic - it will accept a proton to form water.
Adding a stronger acid to a solution containing a weak acid can force it to return to its conjugate base form.
A stronger base can do the same thing to a weaker base.
An amino acid is an organic substance which form condensation polymers by reacting with other amino acids.
This reaction can be reversed (if you have water around), and is catalysed by the presence of a strong acid or a strong base. Without the catalyst, it happens too slowly to do any damage (which is good, because I'd rather not break up in water thanks)
In the case of 'acid damage', I'm pretty sure that the tissue damage is caused by water - the effect of the acid or base is to make the water react, even though it normally wouldn't.
Acids and bases will also have their own effects on the body - e.g. bases attacking fats to make detergents. Blood is also pH-sensitive.
I only did A-level chemistry, so there will be people who know a lot more about it.


This is still pretty simplistic - I'm not a biochemist or even a chemist, but it explains why acid resistance shouldn't lead to a vulnerability to bases. It's really a resistance to chemical attack, not just to acids.

[Barbarian MD]

I think we just drowned a bunch of catgirls in a solution of alkaline pH...


Seriously, there's a pH of -1? How does one even arrive at the calculation??

[Dagren]

I think we just drowned a bunch of catgirls in a solution of alkaline pH...


Seriously, there's a pH of -1? How does one even arrive at the calculation??Quite simply, when you know what pH means. (Which I used to, but have now forgotten. It's something to do with logarithms)

[Barbarian MD]

Yeah, I just didn't know you could end up with a negative as a result of the equation.

[Dagren]

Yeah, I just didn't know you could end up with a negative as a result of the equation.Why shouldn't you be able to? If [H+] is 0.1, then pH is 1. If [H+] is 1, then pH is 0. If [H+] is 10, then PH is -1. See? (Yes, I know I said I'd forgotten, but it's amazing how quickly stuff comes back to you when you think about it)

[Barbarian MD]

Ha! I've never really thought through the implications. A 10mol solution of HCl does have a pH of -1!

Yeah, had to go back and look up the equations. Funny what you forget when you never use it!

[Aergoth]

The PH scale is a number line that uses negative integers to represent the opposite of something (by the same token, negative forwards momentum is backwards momentum of the same value in physics, same idea.) On one end (The Positive End) You have one extreme (Acids I believe, some of us are language students) and on the other end you have (Bases) once again, not a chemist) the other. As mentioned above, both are technically innimical to being imbibed or similar, however the reason that bleach would not be good to drink is (I believe, caveat emptor, not a chemist) in part because your stomach has acid in it to begin with. Starting a chemical reaction on that order doesn't seem to be a good way to stay alive.

[Dagren]

The PH scale is a number line that uses negative integers to represent the opposite of something (by the same token, negative forwards momentum is backwards momentum of the same value in physics, same idea.) On one end (The Positive End) You have one extreme (Acids I believe, some of us are language students) and on the other end you have (Bases) once again, not a chemist) the other. As mentioned above, both are technically innimical to being imbibed or similar, however the reason that bleach would not be good to drink is (I believe, caveat emptor, not a chemist) in part because your stomach has acid in it to begin with. Starting a chemical reaction on that order doesn't seem to be a good way to stay alive.Oh yeah, it's pH = -log[H+], isn't it? I better change my last post.

[Barbarian MD]

A big part of it is this:

Your throat isn't coated with the same mucous that your stomach is.

So while it might be okay in your stomach, your throat would pretty much melt--along your airway, too--and other bad things would happen.

[BisectedBrioche]

The PH scale is a number line that uses negative integers to represent the opposite of something (by the same token, negative forwards momentum is backwards momentum of the same value in physics, same idea.) On one end (The Positive End) You have one extreme (Acids I believe, some of us are language students) and on the other end you have (Bases) once again, not a chemist) the other. As mentioned above, both are technically innimical to being imbibed or similar, however the reason that bleach would not be good to drink is (I believe, caveat emptor, not a chemist) in part because your stomach has acid in it to begin with. Starting a chemical reaction on that order doesn't seem to be a good way to stay alive.

No, you cannot get negative pHs (Whoops, brain fart). Without reiterating my entire A level chemistry course (this is going to contain some "Lies to children" as they say. I'm not being patronising, I'm just terrible at explaining things, feel free to google for more detailed info on pHs);

It is essentially the activity of hydrogen in a given substance, as a logarithmic scale. In a substance with a pH of 0 to <7 there will be free floating hydrogen ions (H+*) (essentially, a proton. On it's own and not bonded to anything). Anything with a pH of 7> has OH-* present, making it a base (you may also hear the term "alkali", this is a base which can be dissolved in water). A substance with a pH of 7 either has no H+ or OH- ions, or there is an equal balance of the two which cancel each other out to form water.

* Note that the + and - signs should be superscript, they denote the "charge" of the ion

Bleach is a lot more corrosive than acids. PH is a logarithmic scale, so the distance between 2 and 7 is a lot greater than the difference between 7 and 11. And of course (as mentioned), your stomach is designed to accommodate acids, not alkalis (not that other parts of your body aren't designed for other substances.

Also, acids and bases are often toxic on their own. Citric acid is neither corrosive enough to burn tissue and isn't toxic. By comparison, most bleaches contain chlorine and are much more corrosive.

[lesser_minion]

OK, I'm going to try explaining pH a little better than my previous attempt. Hopefully it's clear, but I've gone into some detail, so it may be a little confusing.


At room temperature and pressure, pure water exists mainly as H2O. However, pure water is able to behave as both an acid and a base, and in a pure water solution, some of the water molecules will have broken down (dissociated) to release an H+ ion.

The actual equation for this is:

2 H2O → H3O+ + OH-

This can also happen in reverse, and eventually water molecules will be breaking up at the same rate as they recombine, leaving effectively constant numbers of protons, hydroxide ions, and water molecules.

On to pH. The formula for pH is given as pH = -log10 [H+]

where [H+] is the concentration of H+ ions in the water (noting that these H+ ions will actually exist as H3O+).

Increasing the temperature of the water actually increases the concentration of H+ ions in the solution, as more and more water breaks apart. This means that pure water is not always pH 7.00, even though it is always neutral.

Adding an acid (which pretty much breaks down completely at the slightest touch of water) will cause the H+ to rise, while a weak acid will increase the hydrogen ion concentration by less. The amount by which the H+ cocnentration changes is measured by the Ka value of the acid. A 'strong' acid is treated as having an infinite Ka - it breaks down almost completely when exposed to water.

A base will 'steal' H+ ions from the water, causing the H+ ion concentration to fall. Bases are also described as 'strong' or 'weak' - weak bases will not spend all their time accepting protons, while strong bases will.

[brujon]

Also, you have HCN, cianidric acid, which is one of the deadliest poisons. You probably heard of it, it has a almond like smell, and when you smell it, you'll probably die. Also, i digress on bases being more dangerous than acids. Our pancreas secretes a lot of bases in our intestine, which has a rough PH of 11 or so. Also, we regularly consume bases, as Milk of Magnesia and such. Aluminium Hydroxide is also pretty common, as is most bases. The corrosive power of an acid, also, is not a direct measure of PH. Fluoroantimonic Acid has a pKA of -25. It's a quintillion times stronger than pure, raw, sulfuric acid. You would think that this makes it like the acid of the Alien, but it doesn't. It does react strongly with most organic compounds, and explodes in contact with water, but there are some compounds that are not attacked by it. In the end, it all comes down to reactivity. Of course, the lower the PH for acids, and the higher for bases, the higher the reactivity, but it's by no means the only property of an acid. Some acids dissolve fat very well, some don't, some attack gold/platinum/silver, some don't, and so on and so forth. If we were to simplify this, it's kinda of a moot point. At best, you'll only transform acid damage into corrosive damage, and break it into acid and base damage. But what would that add to the game? IMHO, i think it just complicates things. Adding things like a PH scale to a game it's just one of those silly things that complicate things but don't add any more depth to the game. After all, it's a medieval game. Things like a PH scale didn't exist in medieval times, and bases and acids were one and the same. If you want to implement some of this, just say that a spell that lifts Acid Immunity from an enemy is like a shower of white water that produces white salt when it falls on a enemy, etc... There are a million types of acid, infinite variations on concentration, maybe even more bases, and then you have the basicity/acidity of salts, and then... It's just mind boggling.

[iain62a]

Fixed, k?

The pH(potential of hydrogen) scale goes up to 15 as well.

I got the chemistry prize in my school, so I really feel like I should contribute here.

Basically pH is the concentration of hydrogen ions in a solution.

If the concentration of hydrogen ions is 1*10^0 moles per litre, then the pH is 0.

If the concentration of hydrogen is 1*10^-14 moles per litre, then the pH is 14.

If the concentration of hydrogen is 1*10^1 moles per litre, the pH is -1.

*That's assuming that the number of hydroxide ions is inversely proportional to the number of hydrogen ions

[TheGrimace]

human bodies are full of buffers. Not all acids (or bases) are corrosive. Bleach kills you by being toxic, not by being corrosive.

Amphoteric
Prerequisites: Con 13+, Acid resistance.
Benefit: Your gain an alkali resistance equal to your acid resistance.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Base/Alkaline damage, perhaps no, but how about "true" elementals?

Hydrogen:
As air elemental, but, if it takes fire damage, it becomes a fire elemental! Well, for 1d6 rounds/hit die, then it's feul is gone and so is the elemental.

Titanium:
As earth elemental, but 40% lighter (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0423.html). Also, Dex increased by 2.

Uranium: As earth elemental, but has a radiation aura: Fort save (DC 10+1/2 HD+Con mod) or take 1d3 each Str, Dex, and Con damage. CR +2?

More coming?

[Leeham]

Wait, shouldn't that hydrogen elemental become a water elemental when it's burned? And give a blast of sonic damage too. Death by squeaky pop, that'd be a thing....

[BisectedBrioche]

Won't someone please think of the catgirls! :smallbiggrin:

Seriously though, if we're gonna get all scientific, then we should consider pH levels. Perhaps we should scale the effects thusly:

{table=head]pH|Damage per Round
-1|4d6
0|2d6
1|1d6
2|1d3
3-11|No Damage
12|1d3
13|1d6
14|2d6
15|4d6
[/table]
Or something like that. Thoughts?

The problem there is things with a neutral Ph. can easily be highly corrosive. Hydrogen Peroxide for example.

[Jair Barik]

A number of Elementals (Francium for example) would expode as soon as they got wet...

[Maerok]

Well different acids/bases have different properties because they're different chemicals. I think acids and bases should, if they ever got any press at all, be coupled into the Poisons section. Any foreign chemical or an imbalance of a natural one is going to upset the balance of reactions within you.

HF is bad news and doesn't just pose an 'acid hazard' as it's technically a weak acid. However, it go right into your skin and you can get free radical F floating around which will fluorinate you like any carbon compound - which you are, an overhyped smattering of compounds. Then there's Ca leeching from your bones, etc..

As for bleach, it's a base but it also has oxidizing properties which probably lend it to being an even better organism killer than a comparative base.

There are also superacids with pKa -15 or so. Sulfuric is -8 IIRC. By the opposite, there are also probably superbases and such. It depends on the solution and how it's prepared.

---

So for the sake of everyone, we take the high road and generalize it for everyone's sake. Why does this seem like such a big deal?

"Oh, crap! We forget the acid and base rules! Stop the PRESSES! Some smug loon with a semester of general chemistry is going to find us out and ruin us!"

[Pie Guy]

Interesting idea, failed by lack of ability to spell "red"(see title).

[Eerie]

Bases tend to be more toxic if ingested. Perhaps they should also be a poison. I mean, you can drink lemon juice but not cleaning solution despite the fact that they have similar PH levels (on opposite ends of the scale).

Can you stat out HF?


Don`t forget that there is acidic enviroment in your digestion system.

[Maerok]

That doesn't matter if the compound is toxic. Especially cleaning solutions which use a lot of nitrogen-based compounds and other harmful things.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Wait, shouldn't that hydrogen elemental become a water elemental when it's burned? And give a blast of sonic damage too. Death by squeaky pop, that'd be a thing....
No, hydrogen burns...


A number of Elementals (Francium for example) would expode as soon as they got wet...
:smalleek::smallamused:


Interesting idea, failed by lack of ability to spell "red"(see title).
Or possibly a tyop...

[Strawman]

There should be a "wall of base/acid" spell. If the caster passes an alchemy check, they create a wall of base (if acid is flying towards them) and vice versa. If they fail the alchemy check, they create the same type of wall as that which is flying towards them, thus agrivating the problem.

On a success, damage is reduced and the caster is covered by a soapy liquid.

[Siosilvar]

No, hydrogen burns...

I believe that Leeham has the following opinion:

Fire is rapid oxidation. Oxidation is adding oxygen.
Hydrogen + Hydrogen + Oxygen = Water.

[BisectedBrioche]

A number of Elementals (Francium for example) would expode as soon as they got wet...


Francium would decay long before any water contacted it, and technically this property means that the idea it explodes is only a well educated guess based on the properties of similar elements.
Technically said elements would react with the water to produced an hydroxide and release hydrogen gas (and maybe produce enough heat to ignite said gas.
They only explode when they're completely submerged (which allows enough hydrogen to be generated to produce a suitably large blast).

[GreatWyrmGold]

I believe that Leeham has the following opinion:

Fire is rapid oxidation. Oxidation is adding oxygen.
Hydrogen + Hydrogen + Oxygen = Water.

Well, okay, but I think that an elemental bursting into flame obeys the Rule of Cool better. Plus, oxygen gets turned into components of smoke/ash in fire, if I am not mistaken. I hope I know; I have the fire subtype.

[AstralFire]

There should be a "wall of base/acid" spell. If the caster passes an alchemy check, they create a wall of base (if acid is flying towards them) and vice versa. If they fail the alchemy check, they create the same type of wall as that which is flying towards them, thus agrivating the problem.

On a success, damage is reduced and the caster is covered by a soapy liquid.

It shouldn't aggravate the problem any more than a wall of lead would aggravate a lead bullet flying at you.

[GreatWyrmGold]

It shouldn't aggravate the problem any more than a wall of lead would aggravate a lead bullet flying at you.

Au contraire, acid+base=salt water. Possibly poisonous salt, but if a caster drinks magic fluid cavering them...well, they're probably a sorceror whose familiar is twice as smart as him.

[AstralFire]

On contraire, acid+base=salt water. Possibly poisonous salt, but if a caster drinks magic fluid cavering them...well, they're probably a sorceror whose familiar is twice as smart as him.

Au contraire. "To the contrary."

My point is that a wall of acid wouldn't make an acid projectile shooting through it more harmful since it would also absorb the kinetic energy of the projectile and result in a 'splash' effect where a lot of Acid1 and Acid2 fly off in random directions perpendicular Acid1's path.

[Ravens_cry]

Well, okay, but I think that an elemental bursting into flame obeys the Rule of Cool better. Plus, oxygen gets turned into components of smoke/ash in fire, if I am not mistaken. I hope I know; I have the fire subtype.
Water IS oxygen and hydrogen's 'ash'. Two atoms of Hydrogen, burned with an atom of oxygen equals= water, H20, dihydrogen monoxide, wet stuff.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Au contraire. "To the contrary."

My point is that a wall of acid wouldn't make an acid projectile shooting through it more harmful since it would also absorb the kinetic energy of the projectile and result in a 'splash' effect where a lot of Acid1 and Acid2 fly off in random directions perpendicular Acid1's path.
Ah. Well, I guess...I think it could be in a line of spells in which sucess is good, but failure leaves you missing more than the spell.


Water IS oxygen and hydrogen's 'ash'. Two atoms of Hydrogen, burned with an atom of oxygen equals= water, H20, dihydrogen monoxide, wet stuff.
Well...Redcloak might have gotten a passing grade in chem AND remembered it despite gaining spellcaster levels...I guess not for me. :smallredface:

[AlexanderRM]

In D&D, bases would actually deal 'acid' damage. Acid resistance comes from chemical stability (or magic!) more than from being acidic in some way.


I sorta feel like this should be right.




Wait, shouldn't that hydrogen elemental become a water elemental when it's burned? And give a blast of sonic damage too. Death by squeaky pop, that'd be a thing....

Water vapor actually, which I suppose would be a variation on Air elemental? But I'm pretty sure it'd rise really fast due to being so hot, which is what makes people think it just disappears.

Though it'd be interesting if the elemental later rained down as a water elemental. :smallamused:




Base/Alkaline damage, perhaps no, but how about "true" elementals?


I think this was the origional purpose of the thread, actually, and the base rules were just for use with any elements which were usually basic.


Also, if we have "true" elementals, shouldn't we also have "true" elemental planes? I'm suddenly envisioning all the destructive possibilities you could have by portals between different planes, especially if the classic ones were also there... elemental plane of hydrogen+elemental plane of fire anyone? :smallbiggrin:

[Ravens_cry]

Also, if we have "true" elementals, shouldn't we also have "true" elemental planes? I'm suddenly envisioning all the destructive possibilities you could have by portals between different planes, especially if the classic ones were also there... elemental plane of hydrogen+elemental plane of fire anyone? :smallbiggrin:
Not to mention the elemental plane of earth, which would contain, in certain quantities, EVERY element.
It may be derided now, but if you replace the word 'element' with 'phases', the old theory has some validity. Air=gases, fire=plasma, earth=solids, and water=liquids. This even persist today with the term 'fullers earth', even though most actual soil contains little.
Still, the idea of an uranium-235 elemental is too genocidal towards feline folk of the feminine, possibly non-fecund, persuasion to not pique my interest.

[Random832]

First, an explanation of the pH scale. Negative numbers are valid, though they're not special. -1 is just one less than 0, just as 15 is one more than 14. What the number actually represents is the opposite of a logarithmic measurement of the activity of H+ ions (which never truly goes to absolute zero, which would be a a pH of infinity). A pH difference of one means ten times (or one tenth) as much hydrogen activity, a pH difference of two means one hundred times / one hundredth, etc.

pH used to be defined in terms of the (again, opposite of logarithm of) actual concentration of H+ ions; the difference between the two is not very large in practice.


I feel the need to point out that ingesting acids/bases puts them into our stomach, which is a 1M HCl (pH 0) bath, essentially.

PH 1 to 3, actually, which isn't all that strong as HCl goes. [10% concentration is pH -0.5]


The problem there is things with a neutral Ph. can easily be highly corrosive. Hydrogen Peroxide for example.

Well, technically it's a weak acid, but you have a point. You'd also have to have some indication of how strong an oxidizer the substance is, and apply damage (including rust damage to metal objects) based on that.

____


Anyway... am I really the first to mention that acids and bases aren't elements? Metals are. (speaking on a purely numerical basis, in fact, most elements are metals)

[GreatWyrmGold]

I think this was the origional purpose of the thread, actually, and the base rules were just for use with any elements which were usually basic.
Nah, it was for all things chemical, but acids/bases were all I wrote at that time, and I got busy with other projects.


... elemental plane of hydrogen+elemental plane of fire anyone? :smallbiggrin:
:elan: Dunh dunh DUNNNNNH!
:samurai: Why'd he do that?
:othersamurai: Maybe you're squeezing him too hard?

[Random832]

I think this was the origional purpose of the thread, actually, and the base rules were just for use with any elements which were usually basic.

Elements can't be acidic or basic. (They can be oxidizers, though. Chlorine, for instance.)

[GreatWyrmGold]

Elements can't be acidic or basic. (They can be oxidizers, though. Chlorine, for instance.)

Er, I didn't say so. This is a thread for chemistry stuff.