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Trodon
2009-06-02, 10:27 PM
in comic 513 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0513.html) Tsukiko teleports in with some Wights is there a way to summon/ make them?

RebelRogue
2009-06-02, 10:32 PM
Well, technically, they're not listed as options in the Create Undead and Create Greater Undead spells, but I suppose most DMs would allow it. Having one wight will allow you to make more pretty easily, of course.

Edit: as for summoning, the Summon Undead V spell will do.

Doc Roc
2009-06-02, 10:32 PM
Create undead.

Trodon
2009-06-02, 10:36 PM
hmmm true alright i'll talk to my dm when i try to summon undead thanks, if anyone finds anything else in relation to this question post it pls thanks

Zeta Kai
2009-06-02, 10:36 PM
in comic 513 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0513.html) Tsukiko teleports in with some Wights is there a way to summon/ make them?

You guys are overthinking. She says "Teleport" & she means Teleport (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleport.htm). You can bring along one additional willing Medium or smaller creature per three caster levels. It's actually a good indication of her caster level: she much be an 18th-20th level caster to bring that many wights with her, which is about right by her other actions.

Also, to create one, you can just use energy drain or some other method for inflicting negative levels (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#energyDrainAndNegativeLevels) . The default undead created by this is a wight.

RebelRogue
2009-06-02, 10:40 PM
You guys are overthinking. She says "Teleport" & she means Teleport (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleport.htm). You can bring along one additional willing Medium or smaller creature per three caster levels. It's actually a good indication of her caster level: she much be an 18th-20th level caster to bring that many wights with her, which is about right by her other actions.
And they must touch her in order to teleport... I guess she has Death Ward active most of the time (for this, and probably more disturbing, reasons :smallbiggrin:)

Zeta Kai
2009-06-02, 10:43 PM
Also, Animus Blizzard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/animusBlizzard.htm), an epic spell, makes 5 loyal wights instantly from your enemies. It does other stuff, too, although that's mostly cold damage.

RebelRogue
2009-06-02, 10:46 PM
If epic magic is allowed, the Animate Dead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/seeds/animateDead.htm) spell seed is appropriate for creating wights.

Trodon
2009-06-02, 11:05 PM
alright there is also the spell Summon Undead V (5), okay now i'm looking for a good undead controlling build, any level and a lot of undead, thanks for all of your help so far

tyckspoon
2009-06-02, 11:18 PM
You guys are overthinking. She says "Teleport" & she means Teleport (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleport.htm). You can bring along one additional willing Medium or smaller creature per three caster levels. It's actually a good indication of her caster level: she much be an 18th-20th level caster to bring that many wights with her, which is about right by her other actions.


Hah, no, it's really not. I'm not certain, but I think Mind Fog (5th level) is the most powerful spell we've seen her cast so far, and her best negative energy spell was Inflict Critical, which is only 4th level (although there's a level gap between Inflict Critical and Harm, so she could have 5th level access in clerical spells as well.) That would give us her levels as something like Wizard 3/Cleric 3/Theurge 7, with caster levels of 10 and 10. She could take Practiced Spellcaster to get to 13, but that's still not enough for six Medium beings.

Generally we're pretty sure Teleport in the OotS world just has a higher transport capacity than the book version; the same thing happened with the Azurite Wizard that transported the Order to Cliffport.

Trodon
2009-06-03, 12:59 AM
Also, to create one, you can just use energy drain or some other method for inflicting negative levels (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#energyDrainAndNegativeLevels) . The default undead created by this is a wight.

after reading this i'm wondering is there a way to use a drain energy effect at lower levels (1-7 or 8) without major bending of the rules? even if its 1 level drain i want to know about it

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-03, 01:07 AM
after reading this i'm wondering is there a way to use a drain energy effect at lower levels (1-7 or 8) without major bending of the rules? even if its 1 level drain i want to know about itEnervation is the same effect, just weaker. You can actually make it better, though, than the 9th level spell via metamagic.

There's also the Fell Drain Metamagic, which can make spell level 2 Rays of Frost that also deal negative levels.

There may be other ways as well(Lesser Planar Binding for a Succubus comes to mind), but those are the easiest to access IMHO.

Trodon
2009-06-03, 01:08 AM
Enervation is the same effect, just weaker. You can actually make it better, though, than the 9th level spell via metamagic.

There's also the Fell Drain Metamagic, which can make spell level 2 Rays of Frost that also deal negative levels.

There may be other ways as well(Lesser Planar Binding for a Succubus comes to mind), but those are the easiest to access IMHO.

where is fell drain from? and what metamagic would you use?

Trodon
2009-06-03, 01:32 AM
awesome i found some Metamagic (http://www.habololy.net/Feats/Metamagic%20Feats.htm) feats to use but how would i make Enervation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/enervation.htm) better than Energy drain (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/energyDrain.htm)?

Eloel
2009-06-03, 01:50 AM
Twin-Empowered-Split Ray-Enervation with Easy Metamagic and other stuff that decrease the level cost. It ended up at 8th or 9th level, dealing something like 12d4 negative levels, but I'm not sure of the exact thing.

sofawall
2009-06-03, 01:55 AM
TwinSplitMaxed?

Use some Arcane Thesis. Many builds I love involve Arcane Thesising both Orb of Force and Enervation, then picking up Maximize, Twin and Split Ray, maybe some Empower if I'm feeling frisky. I like casting the spells that make people fall down.

EDIT: Darn ninja.

Trodon
2009-06-03, 02:00 AM
Twin-Empowered-Split Ray-Enervation with Easy Metamagic and other stuff that decrease the level cost. It ended up at 8th or 9th level, dealing something like 12d4 negative levels, but I'm not sure of the exact thing.

wow thats nice



TwinSplitMaxed?

Use some Arcane Thesis. Many builds I love involve Arcane Thesising both Orb of Force and Enervation, then picking up Maximize, Twin and Split Ray, maybe some Empower if I'm feeling frisky. I like casting the spells that make people fall down.

EDIT: Darn ninja.

Whats Arcane Thesis?

tyckspoon
2009-06-03, 02:10 AM
For starters, go with a Maximized Enervation. 7th level slot, deals a straight 4 negative levels. That's a pretty good debuff, considering everything negative levels do to their victim; follow it up with a save-or-die next round. But you're interested in draining to death here, so.. first thing to realize is that the PHB metamagic feats are actually pretty inefficient for improving damage spells. Empowering Enervation only gets you another 1 or 2 negative levels, so we won't be using that at the most basic optimization.

For most Ray spells, the most efficient way to improve them is with Split Ray. (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Split_Ray,all) For a single-ray spell like Enervation, it doubles the effect for only 2 more spell levels and one more minor failure point (an extra touch attack.) A Split Ray Enervation, assuming both rays hit, does 2d4 negative levels from a level 6 slot. Same potential damage as Energy Drain, three spell levels less. Already superior. But three spell levels less- why, that's enough room to throw Maximize on there! 8 guaranteed negative levels for the same spell slot, and all you have to do is not throw a 1 on your attack.

That's alright there, that is. But you wanna go beyond that, right? Well, now you have to start being a specialist. Write an Arcane Thesis (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Arcane_Thesis,all) about Enervation. The metamagic cost reduction applies once per metamatic, so now you can Split your Ray for just +1 and Maximize it for +2 (or just Split it as a level 5 slot, or just Maximize out of level 6.) That gets us two more spell levels to play with.. let's put Empower back in the mix. Since we have 2 rays going now, Empower can get us up to 4 more negative levels, which is as good as getting throw a third ray.

Current spell: Split Empowered Maximized Enervation, cast from an 8th level slot. Does 8 + (1d4 x.5) + (1d4x.5) negative levels.

Now, if you want to go further, we're going to add in.. oh.. Twin Spell (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Twin_Spell,all) and Residual Magic (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Residual_Magic,all). Make your first cast a Split Twinned Enervation, for 4d4 negative levels from a level 7 slot. Next round, cast the Split Empowered Maximized version, and use Residual Magic to apply Twin. 16 negative levels from that one, plus whatever you roll on the Empowered parts. If you want to add insult, you can also drop a Quickened Split, but this is pretty hefty on your feats anyway (this is one of the few things a Wiz 20 can do better than Prestige Classes can, thanks to the bonus feats and not having to burn feats on class prereqs. Unless that class is an Incantatrix, since they get another Arcane Thesis-like metamagic reducer.)

Although that's all pretty high level; if you want the easiest way to make Wights, it's already been mentioned. Just go around and smack random Commoners with a Fell Drain (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Fell_Drain,all)ing damage cantrip.

Zeta Kai
2009-06-03, 05:25 AM
detailed analysis

And you say you're not overthinking. :smallamused:

elliott20
2009-06-03, 05:57 AM
Well, technically, they're not listed as options in the Create Undead and Create Greater Undead spells, but I suppose most DMs would allow it. Having one wight will allow you to make more pretty easily, of course.

Edit: as for summoning, the Summon Undead V spell will do.

are you suggesting that tsukiko keeps wights around so that she'll be "preferable" option when she's out clubbing?

Bayar
2009-06-03, 06:17 AM
Go into a town. Start to Fell Drain Sonic Snap a couple of commoners. Get yourself your own army of undead and conquer what's left of the city (the NPC's who have more than 1 level).

Sonic snap is an evocation cantrip that deals 1 sonic damage with no save, no attack roll, no nothing to someone at a range of 25 ft. Fell Drain THAT !

Trodon
2009-06-03, 12:31 PM
Go into a town. Start to Fell Drain Sonic Snap a couple of commoners. Get yourself your own army of undead and conquer what's left of the city (the NPC's who have more than 1 level).

Sonic snap is an evocation cantrip that deals 1 sonic damage with no save, no attack roll, no nothing to someone at a range of 25 ft. Fell Drain THAT !

what book is that from?

and also thank you everyone for all of your help not i just need to level up a few times

Keld Denar
2009-06-03, 12:41 PM
Generally we're pretty sure Teleport in the OotS world just has a higher transport capacity than the book version; the same thing happened with the Azurite Wizard that transported the Order to Cliffport.

There is a handy PrC in Complete Arcane called Wayfairer Guide, a teleporting centric PrC that allows you to take 1 extra target with per CL. So a Wizard9/WG3 with Practiced Spellcaster would be effectively a 21st level caster with respect to carrying capacity with teleportation spells and could bring 7 medium sized allies with, for example.

The thing that makes the class less appealing for PCs is that it loses a spellcaster level at the 2nd level, but as a 1 level dip, its pretty good for any Conjourer who can afford a 1 level dip.

Zaq
2009-06-03, 12:42 PM
Step 0: Obtain one or more alignment (Holy, Unholy, Axiomatic, Anarchic) weapons of your choice. If desired, cast Magic Aura on them to make them seem ordinary.

Step 1: Cast Dominate Person on a 1 HD commoner. Make sure they have at least one alignment component opposed to the weapon you have.

Step 2: Hand them the appropriate (or rather, inappropriate... give a Good victim the Unholy weapon, a Lawful victim the Anarchic weapon, etc.) weapon and order them to take a swing at you.

Step 2a: Since they don't know that the weapon is magical, it doesn't qualify as "obviously self-destructive," so they shouldn't get another save.

Step 2b: Since alignment-based weapons bestow one negative level on anyone of opposite alignment attempting to wield them, the commoner will receive a negative level and die instantly.

Step 3: Wait until nightfall. The commoner will arise as a wight.

Step 4: Use your favorite method to gain control of the wight.

Step 4a: Cackle.

Step 5: Repeat.

Trodon
2009-06-03, 12:45 PM
Step 0: Obtain one or more alignment (Holy, Unholy, Axiomatic, Anarchic) weapons of your choice. If desired, cast Magic Aura on them to make them seem ordinary.

Step 1: Cast Dominate Person on a 1 HD commoner. Make sure they have at least one alignment component opposed to the weapon you have.

Step 2: Hand them the appropriate (or rather, inappropriate... give a Good victim the Unholy weapon, a Lawful victim the Anarchic weapon, etc.) weapon and order them to take a swing at you.

Step 2a: Since they don't know that the weapon is magical, it doesn't qualify as "obviously self-destructive," so they shouldn't get another save.

Step 2b: Since alignment-based weapons bestow one negative level on anyone of opposite alignment attempting to wield them, the commoner will receive a negative level and die instantly.

Step 3: Wait until nightfall. The commoner will arise as a wight.

Step 4: Use your favorite method to gain control of the wight.

Step 4a: Cackle.

Step 5: Repeat.

hehehe so much evil fun

ericgrau
2009-06-03, 03:17 PM
I think you guys are overthinking things. Unless I'm mistaken, you just enervention, (cleric) command undead, done. Heck, you don't even need to repeat it for future undead once the wights get to work. Or, by commanding a starting wight to use as a "seed", you don't even need enervention.

Trodon
2009-06-03, 04:03 PM
I think you guys are overthinking things. Unless I'm mistaken, you just enervention, (cleric) command undead, done. Heck, you don't even need to repeat it for future undead once the wights get to work. Or, by commanding a starting wight to use as a "seed", you don't even need enervention.

yeah but Enernation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/enervation.htm) is a sorcerer/wizard spell not a cleric :smallfrown:

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-03, 04:09 PM
yeah but Enernation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/enervation.htm) is a sorcerer/wizard spell not a cleric :smallfrown:Dread Necromancers can Rebuke.

Keld Denar
2009-06-03, 04:33 PM
Enervation is also on the Hunger domain spell list, along with a couple of other domain lists.

Plus, shes a freakin Mystic Theurge....its not like she couldn't both cast Enervation AND rebuke undead to gain control of a Wight. Wights are 4 HD, which means she'd have to get a rebuke level of 8 to command it...forever. Unless she used early entry shananananananananigans to get into MT, she has at least 3 cleric levels. Add in a Phylactery of Undead Turning for 4 extra levels puts her at level 7. Assuming a decent Cha (did you see her in that nighty? Hatch cha cha!) she could command a Wight on a roll of about 8 or higher.

There...done and done.