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View Full Version : familiars kind of suck with PrCs



yilduz
2009-06-03, 07:39 PM
I was thinking about PrCs and my familiar. Since I really only plan on taking a few levels of wizard, that's going to make my familiar pretty vulnerable later on. Is there a feat or anything that lets my familiars bonuses base on my caster level rather than my wizard class level?

The Glyphstone
2009-06-03, 07:40 PM
There's the Obtain Familiar feat, available to any arcane spellcaster, and it gives you a familiar that does exactly that. Trade away your existing familiar for a bonus feat or a good ACF like Abrupt Jaunt, then burn a feat to get it back but better.

msully4321
2009-06-03, 07:50 PM
Where is the rule that allows you to swap your familiar for a bonus feat?

Jack_Simth
2009-06-03, 07:54 PM
It's a flaw, from Dragon Magazine (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Loner,all)

lsfreak
2009-06-03, 07:56 PM
It's not feats, but alternate class features. I believe there's some in UA, but the best ones are in PHB2.
EDIT: Nevermind then, didn't know there was that :p

Kylarra
2009-06-03, 08:14 PM
The Loner flaw isn't what you want since it specifically preempts you from recovering it via obtain familiar. You want the ACFs that swap out your familiar for other things.

Swooper
2009-06-03, 08:16 PM
Well, that hinges on the DM allowing both flaws and Dragon magazine materials, which, sadly, few do. And if they do, it's taking up a flaw "slot". I'd use Immediate Magic from PHB2 instead and take some other two flaws :smallwink:

Edit: @ Kylarra: Well yeah, that too :smalltongue:

Douglas
2009-06-03, 08:17 PM
The Loner flaw isn't what you want since it specifically preempts you from recovering it via obtain familiar.
That why you take Forlorn (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Forlorn,all) instead. Yay for redundancy with different wording in Dragon material.:smallbiggrin:

Kylarra
2009-06-03, 08:19 PM
That why you take Forlorn (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Forlorn,all) instead. Yay for redundancy with different wording in Dragon material.:smallbiggrin:I suppose so. :smalltongue:

Gralamin
2009-06-03, 08:53 PM
I just always use This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58667). Note that you can get other things then just a feat from it.

Hat-Trick
2009-06-03, 09:22 PM
Forlorn still doesn't allow you access to familiars. It states that you lose the ability to call a familiar, not you don't get it. You CANNOT use the summon familiar ability, because you can't call a familiar. AT ALL. EVER. No, not even then.

yilduz
2009-06-03, 10:29 PM
Well, I don't want an item familiar, because the specific familiar I've chosen is the one I chose a few years ago and it has been a big part of the image of my character (in my mind, anyway). Also, the fact that the familiar is living is crucial to the back story.

The other abilities some of you guys are talking about are being discounted by other members as far as what I want to do... so those won't work... thank you anyway, though... some of them are pretty cool.

but it looks like obtain familiar is exactly what I was looking for. I know I asked for a feat that does that, but now I'm wondering if it's worth a feat, considering my level progression gets so few and there are a few I'd like to have. Gah... decisions... :smallannoyed:

:smallbiggrin:

Olo Demonsbane
2009-06-03, 10:59 PM
Trade out your familar for something else at the same level you get Obtain Familar. Most reasonalbe DMs would agree to this...

only1doug
2009-06-04, 02:35 PM
The other abilities some of you guys are talking about are being discounted by other members as far as what I want to do... so those won't work... thank you anyway, though... some of them are pretty cool.



Not so, the dragon magazine flaws have been ruled out but the PHB2 and UA trading is still possible.

Most of the trades are written as "must take at L1" but an understanding GM will allow you to retroactively apply it.

there is one trade for each of the schools of magic (specialist wizards only) in PHB2.

I don't know what the UA versions are.

Probably the strongest is the Conjourers Abrupt Jaunt ability (teleport a short distance as an imeadiate action)

J.Gellert
2009-06-04, 04:03 PM
That why you take Forlorn instead. Yay for redundancy with different wording in Dragon material.

And if you later take a PrC that gives you a familiar, you can make a point that you can get Forlorn a second time for another feat :smallbiggrin:

Chronos
2009-06-04, 09:33 PM
Or you could just keep your familiar as-is. All classes advance your familiar, and most classes advance it more than Wizard does. Your familiar's effective HD, HP, BAB, saves, and skills are all based on your total, counting levels in all classes, and Wizard gets close to the bare minimum on all of that. You do lose advancement in things like the familiar's Int score, but really, who's going to be doing all the thinking around here?

yilduz
2009-06-04, 09:44 PM
Or you could just keep your familiar as-is. All classes advance your familiar, and most classes advance it more than Wizard does. Your familiar's effective HD, HP, BAB, saves, and skills are all based on your total, counting levels in all classes, and Wizard gets close to the bare minimum on all of that. You do lose advancement in things like the familiar's Int score, but really, who's going to be doing all the thinking around here?

That's a good point. The AC probably isn't absolutely huge, he really isn't meant to fight; Speaking with other snakes, spell resistance, and scrying on the familiar probably aren't all that important. There are other ways to do all of those things that don't require me to take a feat. In fact, the only of those that I would really use often is the scrying... but I'm sure there's a spell for that. :P

Thank you.

yilduz
2009-06-08, 11:42 AM
Due to the answer given by Chronos, I'm likely not going to take this feat, but I figured I'd post it just in case anyone else may be looking for something like this in the future.

From the Ultimate Feats book:
Familiar Focus (General)
Prerequisites: must be linked to a familiar
Benefit: The abilities of your familiar are now based on your character level, not your class level.

Eloel
2009-06-08, 11:46 AM
Get your familiar, it's very strong. After all, Lightning Warrior doesn't have it, and is thus very weak.
Sorry, I just love to make people look at that class :)

Goatman_Ted
2009-06-08, 11:49 AM
The AC probably isn't absolutely huge, he really isn't meant to fight; Speaking with other snakes, spell resistance, and scrying on the familiar probably aren't all that important.

This is why I keep doing double takes when I see the thread title. Without Prestige classes, Familiars gain a couple mostly-useless special abilities, but only have your half BAB, 2+Int skills and half your d4+Con HP.

With something like Abjurant Champion or Unseen Seer, they pump those numbers into ranges where they're useful. And look at classes like Loremaster that put UMD on your list.

Familiars kind of suck without PrCs.