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View Full Version : Heroics? The one that gives you a feat?



Brock Samson
2009-06-04, 03:50 AM
Is this in the Spell Compendium?

mikej
2009-06-04, 03:53 AM
Yes. [filler/]

Malacode
2009-06-04, 05:44 AM
Yeah, SpC. Howevr, must be a fighter bonus feat and you have to meet all the pre-req's which can be quite limiting. However, I believe you can use feats from Heroics to qualify for more feats from Heroics. If you've got persistent spell, you can burn your 8th level spell slots on this. Not that it's particularly useful for a caster (Or, at all), or even the best second level spell for a Gish (Alter Self into a Tren/Dwarven Ancestor, then Scintillating Scales yourself so it becomes a Deflection bonus is way better that Heroics (Dodge) + Heroics (Mobility), for example)

jcsw
2009-06-04, 05:48 AM
Hint: Martial Study is a Fighter Bonus Feat.

SilverSheriff
2009-06-04, 05:48 AM
anyone care to elaborate?

Brock Samson
2009-06-04, 06:12 AM
Martial Study?

RebelRogue
2009-06-04, 06:27 AM
Yeah, SpC. Howevr, must be a fighter bonus feat and you have to meet all the pre-req's which can be quite limiting. However, I believe you can use feats from Heroics to qualify for more feats from Heroics.
You can't do that: effects from the same source (specifically the same spell) do not stack. The minute you cast the new one it overrides the first one, for which you no longer have the prereqs, making it useless.

mikej
2009-06-04, 07:00 AM
Martial Study?

Tome of Battle, pg 31. Select a maneuver from one of the list of disciplines, usable once per encounter, base off 1/2 your level to determine initiator.

Example, forth level Fighter uses his bonus feat to obtain Martial Study. It's initiator level is equal to 1/2 it's class level ( 2 ), it can select any 1st-level maneuver. Fighter selects "Steel Wind," that's usable once per encounter. Just uses Heroics to replace the Fighter's bonus feats in this scenario.

Curmudgeon
2009-06-04, 08:35 AM
You can't do that: effects from the same source (specifically the same spell) do not stack. The minute you cast the new one it overrides the first one, for which you no longer have the prereqs, making it useless. Sorry, that's not what the rules say.
Spells or magical effects usually work as described, no matter how many other spells or magical effects happen to be operating in the same area or on the same recipient. Except in special cases, a spell does not affect the way another spell operates. Whenever a spell has a specific effect on other spells, the spell description explains that effect. You're thinking of the "Same Effect with Differing Results" stacking limitation, but you didn't read it carefully enough.
The same spell can sometimes produce varying effects if applied to the same recipient more than once. For example, a series of polymorph spells might turn a creature into a mouse, a lion, and then a snail. In this case, the last spell in the series trumps the others. None of the previous spells are actually removed or dispelled, but their effects become irrelevant while the final spell in the series lasts. There is no blanket prohibition in the rules of using the same spell repeatedly on the same target. There are qualifiers here ("can sometimes"), and Heroics -- unlike Polymorph -- doesn't fit into the category of spells where the earlier "effects become irrelevant" (which is descriptive, not declarative, text). Thus it goes back to the basic rule of "spells ... usually work as described" without a specific stacking prohibition.

RebelRogue
2009-06-04, 08:45 AM
Appearantly, I need to reread the magic rules some day... I keep making mistakes, it seems :smallannoyed:

I'm pretty sure I've made this ruling in-game,though. Maybe that's what confused me...

Person_Man
2009-06-04, 09:30 AM
Heroics is very useful for certain builds. As a 2nd level Sorcerer Wizard spell, it's quite easy to afford to put in a wand (which anyone can get access to with a Skill investment or the right feat). It lasts 10 minutes per level, so you rarely need to bother with Persistent Spell or other chicanery.

Give me 5 minutes, and I'll stat something interesting out.

EDIT: Here you go. I'll probably make a much larger post on my own thread once I work out all the specifics.

Echo the Active:

Human Factotum 3/Warblade 2/Chameleon 5/Warblade 3+ (ECL 11+)

+8 BAB, 4th level divine or arcane spells, 4th level manuevers (and you can choose a different one every morning), all Skills as class Skills, and you can apply your Int bonus applied to tons of different checks (Str/Dex Skills, Trip/Bull Rush/Disarm/Grapple, critical confirmation, Saves, etc).

Take Exotic Weapon proficiency, and learn what it can do (www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5266526). You can swap this out to be any exotic weapon each morning using the Warblade's Weapon Aptitude ability.

The Chameleon bonus feat can swap out it's bonus feat every morning.

Heroics gives you a Fighter bonus feat of your choice.

So you essentially get 3 floating feats, and Chameleon can cast any Divine spell (Cleric, Blackguard, Paladin, Ranger, domain, etc) without needing a spell book. So with some creativity, you can do anything you want.

You could also do a psionic or incarnum or Binder version of this build, using your floating bonus feat to gain a different power every morning.