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View Full Version : The best schools of magic?



karnalsyn
2009-06-04, 03:01 PM
Thought I'd toss out a fun little opinion thread on the topic of arcane magic schools.

Curious which schools are either your favorite, or that you feel are without a doubt THE best school for an arcane spell caster.

Keld Denar
2009-06-04, 03:02 PM
Conjouration

then Conjouration

then Conjouration

then Conjouration

then Transmutation










then Illusion (unless you are a Shadowcraft Mage)

then everything else

mikej
2009-06-04, 03:05 PM
Conjuration...

edit: well if I need to explain further. It's basically the all purpose school. Lots of usefull spells at each level, always kept Conjuration. Other schools like Enchantment aren't as versatile. Transmutation takes a solid second, while Necromancy is third.

karnalsyn
2009-06-04, 03:05 PM
Really? Conjuration?

What about Conjuration has you so sure? :)

Deepblue706
2009-06-04, 03:07 PM
Transmutation is pretty badass, since you can essentially always use it when you're in a party.

Although, Conjuration pretty much works whenever, party or not.

Yuki Akuma
2009-06-04, 03:09 PM
Conjuration can do anything.

It's better at blasting than Evocation, better at defence than Abjuration and better at hordes of minions (even undead ones) than Necromancy. And it can do a bunch of other things besides, and has some of the best control spells in the game.

If you're going to go Focused Specialist, make your speciality Conjuration.

JeenLeen
2009-06-04, 03:13 PM
I would say Conjuration or Illusion.

Evocation is considered weak because, at high levels, it mostly only damages. The 'good' high level spells are save-or-dies or spells that make it effectively like a save-or-die. Also, Illusion can imitate Evocation (and Conjuration for that matter) with Shadow Evocation (and Shadow Conjuration).

Conjuration contains utility spells as well as save-or-dies. Transmutation has great buffs, debuffs, and save-or-dies. Illusion can really mess up a foe and imitate other schools. Enchantment can recruit enemies. Necromancy is the key debuff and has some good (albeit evil) damage spells.
I'll leave it to people more experienced witih spellcasting to say more.

Also, Player's Handbook II has an awesome alternative class feature for conjuration specialist wizards, as well. The most powerful wizard types I've seen built seem to always be Conjuration specialists, banning Evocation and usually Enchantment.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-04, 03:16 PM
In order:
Conjuration: Do anything, with the best ACFs and a large number of powerful-but-not-quite-broken spells
Transmutation: Do almost anything, with a good mix of powerful spells, but some of it's best ones are insta-banned a lot of the time, which hurts.
Illusion: The best defenses in the game, and some extremely versatile spells.
Abjuration: some vital spells(dispel), some good spells, but not as Uber.
Necromancy: Great debufs, some utility, good variety. Moe powerful than Abj IMHO, but Abj is vital in a way Necro isn't.
Enchantment: Does one thing, does it well, and is useless against whole types and subtypes.
Evocation: Does one thing, does it poorly, is junk against most enemies, and other schools sing 'Anything you can do'.

Divination I don't really like, so I'm not as sure about where it goes. Behind Illusion, and over Enchantment, but...I just don't know it enough to rate it.

lsfreak
2009-06-04, 03:18 PM
Conjuration has everything. Save-of-suck, save-or-lose, teleportation, a ton of utility spells (grease comes to mind), better single-target damage than evocation, and some truly amazing battlefield control (freezing fog is hilarity).

Transmutation has pretty much everything that Conjuration didn't cover. Excellent buffs, excellent debuffs.

Illusion is your defense school. Blur, invisibility, major image, mirror image.

Then comes abjuration and necromancy. Necromancy is the debuffing king, but a lot of stuff becomes immune to it at high levels. Abjuration is nice, but is better covered by a cleric.

Enchantment is mostly covered by illusion and/or necromancy. Evocation sucks hard if you're trying to be an arcanist, but is fine if you're willing to just be the archer.

Divination is extremely powerful used well. It generally doesn't get ranked with the others since you can't ban it. Has all kinds of stuff to make other stuff better.

ericgrau
2009-06-04, 03:21 PM
Really? Conjuration?

What about Conjuration has you so sure? :)

This is how you can tell someone is new to these boards. :smallwink:

IMO conjuration is over-rated in these boards but still very nice. I'd say abjuration and divination are the weak ones. Everything else has its use somewhere, but conjuration and evocation have the flashy battle spells. Illusion, necromancy and enchantment are fairly niche in their applications. Transmutation is nice because it has a handful of uber all-star spells that are hard to give up, but it also has some ok spells and a couple of poor spells.

A lot of people here say evocation is worthless because you can use splatbooks to partly replace it with conjuration.

If you're looking to build a mage, then IMO try any of the 5 schools mentioned and play something different from what your group is used to to keep it interesting. If that means you try conjuration, you'll get a billion tips from these boards. Just be aware if you do one of the 3 niche schools you'll probably want some backup spells to avoid being shut down half the time. Mix in the handful of uber transmutations whatever your style, perhaps some of the ok ones too. Don't ignore abjuration and divination though, just give them a lower priority or use scrolls or etc.

Starscream
2009-06-04, 03:21 PM
Yeah, Conjuration and Transmutation are the most powerful schools.

But I maintain that Illusion is by far the most fun.

JellyPooga
2009-06-04, 03:22 PM
Necromancy. Because if you're going to cast spells then you might as well do it properly; i.e. as creepy evil wizard with gaunt flesh and a cowled robe, with a skull topped staff and undead minions. And nothing says "I'm a powerful mage" better than getting surrounded by enemies, saying a short phrase which drains the very life essence from your foe, healing yourself in the process and turning said foe (who should now be dead) into a mindless rotting slave...

karnalsyn
2009-06-04, 03:23 PM
@ericgrau

New to the forums?
Yes.

Looking to build a mage and sap ideas off others?
No.


Just bored at work and looking to spark a topic on a class in the game that I enjoy. :)

The reply you quoted of mine was mainly just to help expand the discussion further from just a one word answer.

ericgrau
2009-06-04, 03:26 PM
Ah, well if you're looking for discussion on this kind of topic you'll get a lot of that. Have fun.

lsfreak
2009-06-04, 03:33 PM
Necromancy. Because if you're going to cast spells then you might as well do it properly; i.e. as creepy evil wizard with gaunt flesh and a cowled robe, with a skull topped staff and undead minions. And nothing says "I'm a powerful mage" better than getting surrounded by enemies, saying a short phrase which drains the very life essence from your foe, healing yourself in the process and turning said foe (who should now be dead) into a mindless rotting slave...
The biggest problem with necromancy as the most powerful is that so much is immune to its effects at high levels. I won't deny it's fun though.

The thing about Conj is that it just has so much. If you want to do it, Conj can probably do it. Maybe not the way you were thinking, but it can do it.

I've always likes Enchantment, slowly building up your own personal army via suggestion and dominate person (without resorting to diplomancy). But the fact that so much is immune to it and that a single spell renders the whole school useless really hurts.

Optimystik
2009-06-04, 03:40 PM
I would rank evocation ahead of enchantment, personally. Enchantment is all but useless at high levels with all the mind-affecting spells it has. At least with evocation you can keep blasting.

You know it's bad when a 9th-level Enchantment spell can be stopped cold by a level 1 Abjuration!

J.Gellert
2009-06-04, 03:53 PM
Conjuration is the 'best' because it is the most versatile.

Necromancy is second-best because it too is versatile. Once you are finished with your enemies, only Constructs will be left standing - but your dead minions can deal with them. Of course, animating dead minions is not as simple as conjuring them so Conjuration is 'faster'.

I'd say Transmutation and Illusion fight for the third place. Illusion can be great depending on the foe and the circumstances, but it doesn't provide tangible effects. Transmutation is great for some mages, and for your party members, but it's not as good as Conjuration or Necromancy.

Bonus points go to Necromancy because it's the school that gets you eternal life* - and outside the battlefield, you have to admit that it matters.

*Yes, I know that you can be a lich without a single necromantic spell, but just roll with it...

Mr. Mud
2009-06-04, 03:55 PM
Hmm okay, then what two schools should I ban (4e), if I don't go Divination? I'm thinking... Evocation, and maybe... _________*?

*Where I'm pretty much lost :smalltongue:

Eldariel
2009-06-04, 03:59 PM
Transmutation and Conjuration are the best, will Illusion being slightly behind.

Transmutation has:
-Awesome buffs (Haste, Polymorph-line, Enlarge Person, all Flight-related spells, etc.)
-Fort Save-or-X spells (Slow, Baleful Polymorph, Disintegrate, Flesh to Stone, etc.)
-Battlefield morphing spells (Stone Shape, Move Earth, Control Weather, Control Water, Disintegrate, etc.)
-Screwing with Time (Time Stop, Haste, etc.)
-Mobility spells (Flight of all forms, Etherealness of all forms, etc.)
-Best level 9 spells in the business (Time Stop & Shapechange; only Gate and Disjunction are really in the same league in Core)
-Reverse Gravity

Conjuration has:
-Reflex Save-or-X (Grease, Web, etc.)
-Other Save-or-X (Glitterdust, Plane Shift, etc.)
-Battlefield control (Wall of Stone, Solid Fog, etc.)
-Direct Offense (Melf's, Acid Fog, etc. - gets much better outside Core)
-Teleportation; best movement in the game
-Summons (that can hit whatever you're missing; they can grant you an access to a nice bunch of spell-likes)
-Planar Binding (an extra character for much of the time, one with a crapton of awesome abilities)
-Maze

Illusion has:
-Best defenses in the game (Mirror Image, Displacement, Greater Invisibility, etc.)
-Mobility (Phantom Steed, Shadow Walk, etc.)
-Will Save-or-X (Color Spray mostly; Shadow X spells kinda apply too)
-Shadow Evocation/Conjuration (Shadow Evocation in particular can replicate a ****ton of what the whole school does; only Greater is any good for offense though - free Force Cages that work 60% of the time are fairly good)
-Project Image, Simulacrum, etc. - extra actions, extra characters, means to operate through another object and to see behind the corners without risking yourself, etc. A lot of goodness, overall.
-X Image-line; your imagination is the limit to what you can do with these.


All of these schools provide you with defense and varied offense; Illusion is defensively stronger while Conjuration is offensively stronger. All of these schools give you mobility, all of them give you some tools for protecting yourself, together they allow you to cover all 3 of opponent's saves and target whichever is the weakest.

Whenever the opponent is immune to your spells, you can morph the environment instead, or summon some mediums to do the ugly stuff for you. All of them also have some great No Save-X spells.


Out of the other schools, the most irreplaceables are Divination and Abjuration. Abjuration is the only school that enables directly attacking magic. A caster without Dispel Magic is eventually going to run into unbeatable opposition. Of course, in party, another party member can cover that area.

So dropping Abjuration with another party member capable of handling the area is ok; there's stuff like Protection from Evil, Mind Blank and Disjunction that just kick ass, but as long as you can access Dispel Magic and Greater Dispel Magic, you'll be ok.

As for Divination, it's completely unique. Nothing else allows locating things you really need to find. There are practically no other ways of beating certain forms of illusions. There are no other ways to figure out what's going to happen tomorrow, which spells to prepare and so on. Even reading magic is a divination, as is seeing magical auras, detecting spells, etc. Divination just has no overlap whatsoever with the other schools.


For the worst:

Enchantment is probably the worst school, although Charm-line definitely has social uses, something other spells don't do as well (Transmutation and Illusion both have some such uses though). Conjuration summons can handle that too. Offensively enchantment is all mind-affecting Will-save targeting (except for Irresistible Dance, but it's on such a high level that Mind Blank is around with its 24 hour duration by then). Buffs are all morale-bonuses. Overall, it's the most redundant school.

Necromancy and Evocation are funny. They pretty much obsolete each other. In Core, you can ban one but not the other. They both do offense, a bit differently (Necromancy has more debuffs, while Evocation has more area-of-effect magic).

Both have a few utility spells you really want (False Life, Clone, Contingency, Wall of Force, etc.) but Shadow Evocation can sorta maybe replicate the Evocation-parts. Walls aren't unique either, and Forcecage is better Shadow Evocationed anyways because then you don't need the damn material component.


This is why Evocation is generally the first to go. Out-of-core you can mayhap mimic Necromancy enough to be able to let it go, but all the Str-drain, level-drain and such is just that good (enables disabling many kinds of opponents with a mere touch attack). Oh, and Necromancy has the "make an army"-aspect too, although that's more seldom usable.


For a best-to-worst listing, I'd go:
1. Conjuration
1. Transmutation
3. Illusion
4. Divination
5. Abjuration
6. Necromancy
7. Evocation
8. Enchantment

Morty
2009-06-04, 04:01 PM
It should be noted though, that no matter what you ban or specialize in, your character will still be viable and competent. Just to a varying degree depending on your choices.

karnalsyn
2009-06-04, 04:03 PM
I'm currently playing an illusionist in 3.5 and having a blast, its been pretty fun.

Definitely a good break from the normal evoker wizards that I tend to play.

Conj is actually something I've not yet dabbled in really. I've always associated it with just their summon monster spells. And because I feel the druids summons are better, and we always have a druid in the party....I've yet to see the need to actually play a conjurer.

However, I've been researching it more lately and it is becoming more and more appealing.

Eventually I'd like to play a wiz of each specific school to really get a feel for them. Up until recently I've always played a generic wiz, which has basically morphed into en evoker just due to my most commonly chosen spells. So I think playing more specialist wizards will give me a better appreciation for the other schools in time. Thus my new illusionist :)

Eldariel
2009-06-04, 04:11 PM
You might want to read Logic Ninja's Guide to Wizards: Being Batman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104002) and Treantmonk's Being God (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=394.0); both go rather indepth specifically on Wizard's spells and their evaluation.

JellyPooga
2009-06-04, 04:12 PM
The biggest problem with necromancy as the most powerful is that so much is immune to its effects at high levels. I won't deny it's fun though.

I never said it was the most powerful, per se, just that it says it best...:smallwink:

Optimystik
2009-06-04, 04:20 PM
Conjuration has:
-Reflex Save-or-X (Grease, Web, etc.)
-Other Save-or-X (Glitterdust, Plane Shift, etc.)
-Battlefield control (Wall of Stone, Solid Fog, etc.)
-Direct Offense (Melf's, Acid Fog, etc. - gets much better outside Core)
-Teleportation; best movement in the game
-Summons (that can hit whatever you're missing; they can grant you an access to a nice bunch of spell-likes)
-Planar Binding (an extra character for much of the time, one with a crapton of awesome abilities)
-Maze


You forgot orbs: Make your touch attack and you can ignore saves, SR, and even ANTI-MAGIC!

And don't get me started on Gate...

karnalsyn
2009-06-04, 04:26 PM
You might want to read Logic Ninja's Guide to Wizards: Being Batman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104002)

I've only just started to skim the surface of this one and am having a blast reading it. Thanks for the tip :)

Eldariel
2009-06-04, 04:58 PM
You forgot orbs: Make your touch attack and you can ignore saves, SR, and even ANTI-MAGIC!

And don't get me started on Gate...

They fall under the Direct Offense-part. I just wanted to stick to Core-options for the spells I'm listing.


I've only just started to skim the surface of this one and am having a blast reading it. Thanks for the tip :)

Glad you like it. Really, it's awesome that people have bothered to make such an effort, basically assessing all the spells in the game so people don't need to have to memorize them all by heart.

AslanCross
2009-06-04, 05:45 PM
My definition of "best" is "can do the most," which of course allows the wizard to do his archetypical job of providing solutions to the party.
Conjuration can do the most, followed by Transmutation, then Illusion. All the other schools are highly specialized, with Evocation being the most specialized.
Evocation still is not without its gems, though: wall of force, scorching ray, fireball. Sure, people knock on fireball all the time, but I've always liked it for being an iconic. Lightning bolt sadly lost its awesomeness through the editions.

mostlyharmful
2009-06-04, 05:50 PM
Dependant on the DM but Divination is my favourite. Knowledge equals power and there's some fantastic stuff you can pull from the comfort of your armchair that'll utterly change your campaign and world...

If the DM can't handle it then Conj for the reasons mentioned but to me a Wizard should be all about the endless questions and answers and insights and scryings and snappy answers (because you've been ready for it for a month)...:smallsmile:

Emy
2009-06-04, 07:12 PM
Transmutation has:
-Awesome buffs (Haste, Polymorph-line, Enlarge Person, all Flight-related spells, etc.)
-Fort Save-or-X spells (Slow, Baleful Polymorph, Disintegrate, Flesh to Stone, etc.)
-Battlefield morphing spells (Stone Shape, Move Earth, Control Weather, Control Water, Disintegrate, etc.)
-Mobility spells (Flight of all forms, Etherealness of all forms, etc.)
-Best level 9 spells in the business (Time Stop & Shapechange)
-Reverse Gravity


Additionally:

-"Wizard goes first" spells (Nerveskitter at low levels, Celerity at higher levels. Some overlap with Divination here, though they complement each other nicely)

oh you were sticking to core spells. I see.

Eldariel
2009-06-04, 08:11 PM
Additionally:

-"Wizard goes first" spells (Nerveskitter at low levels, Celerity at higher levels. Some overlap with Divination here, though they complement each other nicely)

oh you were sticking to core spells. I see.

If I just say "Temporal Manipulation", I'll cover all Core and non-Core spells of that type from the school. Ok, "Temporal Manipulation" added to Transmutation.

Heh, it's actually the only real overlap Divination has (although Divination with its +25 insight bonuses, immunity to flat-footedness and what not does it better), those "going first"-spells.

Chronos
2009-06-04, 09:13 PM
Conjuration's the most versatile in the sense that it has a spell for almost every purpose, but Transmutation has a few spells that are more versatile than anything Conjuration has. Polymorph Any Object, for instance, can be used as a save-or-suck (which affects almost everything: Far fewer things are immune to polymorph than are immune to death effects or mind-affecting), or as a pseudo-summon spell (turn a pebble or a blade of grass into a monster), or as any of a wide variety of buffs (turn yourself into something smarter, or turn the fighter into some super-strong monster, or the rogue into a hydra), or for any of a wide variety of non-combat uses.

Of course, PAO is 8th level, but even on lower levels, Transmutation still has some very versatile spells (Alter Self and regular Polymorph come to mind).

skywalker
2009-06-05, 02:57 AM
Just for fun, I'll be the first here to say that the best school is the one where you roll the most dice. That would be evocation, my friends. Beyond that:


My definition of "best" is "can do the most," which of course allows the wizard to do his archetypical job of providing solutions to the party.
Conjuration can do the most, followed by Transmutation, then Illusion. All the other schools are highly specialized, with Evocation being the most specialized.
Evocation still is not without its gems, though: wall of force, scorching ray, fireball. Sure, people knock on fireball all the time, but I've always liked it for being an iconic. Lightning bolt sadly lost its awesomeness through the editions.

QFT.

Even besides fireball, how about magic missile? What's a wizard without the mighty MM? First level wizards used to know two spells: sleep, and magic missile.

Fishy
2009-06-05, 04:02 AM
No one casts Lesser Orb of Acid at the darkness.

I find it kind of funny that so many people are abstaining from ranking Divination. Knowledge is power, and the Divination school is simultaneously the most and least powerful. It's what enables Scry-and-Die to work, it's what tells you what your magic items are, it lets you know where the bad guys are and what their weaknesses are.

Of course, in an actual game, Wizards have another source of information, and it's called a DM. :P If it's absolutely necessary to find something, it'll just show up, more often than not.

Doc Roc
2009-06-05, 04:09 AM
Divination + Alacritous Cogitation == "Give me that notebook, sweetie."

Gorbash
2009-06-05, 04:40 AM
Just for fun, I'll be the first here to say that the best school is the one where you roll the most dice. That would be evocation, my friends.

Clearly, you haven't heard about Maw of Chaos.

1d6/lvl (no maximum) untyped damage for round/lvl in a 15 ft radius.

Also, everyone affected rolls will save or dazed.

On the lvl you get it (17th), it can potentionally do 28d6 dmg for 28 rounds (17 + 1 (Ioun Stone) + 1 (Ring of Arcane Might) + 1 (Robe of Arcane Might) + 4 (Bead of Karma with UMD) + 1 (Create Magic Tattoo) + 1 (Archmage's Spell Power) + 2 (Spell Enhancer) ). So, about 100 untyped dmg a round. Throw in a Solid Fog, Evard's or something like that for the potentional 2800 dmg. The best part is, this requires no heavy metamagic investment, no Arcane Thesis, just regular items your wizard should have along the way (mine will).

Beat that, evocation.

mostlyharmful
2009-06-05, 05:14 AM
I find it kind of funny that so many people are abstaining from ranking Divination. Knowledge is power, and the Divination school is simultaneously the most and least powerful. It's what enables Scry-and-Die to work, it's what tells you what your magic items are, it lets you know where the bad guys are and what their weaknesses are.

Of course, in an actual game, Wizards have another source of information, and it's called a DM. :P If it's absolutely necessary to find something, it'll just show up, more often than not.

That and most DMs haven't sorted out a whole lot of stuff about their world ready for the answers to be handed out on demand, that's what I meant about DMs not being able to handle it. In thought experiments it's kickass and no mistake, playing twenty questions with CoP before anything is part of the fun of a theoretical build that just doesn't translate to asking bob across the table what will be happening to things he hasn't even thought about yet and how a set of actions will alter that and who's planning what and all that junk. It's either plot dependant that you know what you need or it's plot dependant that you don't know what you should be able to ping the universe for in most games.

karnalsyn
2009-06-05, 07:25 AM
Knowledge is power

And knowing is half the battle....YO JOE!

Roupe
2009-06-08, 04:21 PM
Divination, information is key to victory

true strike/power attack/ sunder,

quicken feat on true strike...

Then the GM pulls the plug of course.

Justin B.
2009-06-08, 06:15 PM
I'm rather fond of Abjuration myself. Locking out other spellcasters is fun. Especially when going Gish, because there's not much fun 9th level Abjuration anyway.

woodenbandman
2009-06-08, 06:19 PM
I'm actually gonna go with Transmutation over Conjuration. Transmutation is way less likely to be banned by a DM because it's not totally owning encounters with a single spell. Also, a Transmuter is an invaluable asset to his party, who will love him, and is not necessarily a target for enemy spellcasters due to his support role in the party. The party is likely buffed before the encounter, so the enemy spellcaster will stop the buffed beatstick rather than the godslaying wizard.

Also transmutation has shapechange, and I love shapechange.

Oblivious
2009-06-08, 06:25 PM
It does depend on which books are used. Conjuration might tie with Transmutation if you only use core, but it gets better and better as you add books.

quick_comment
2009-06-08, 07:37 PM
It should be noted though, that no matter what you ban or specialize in, your character will still be viable and competent. Just to a varying degree depending on your choices.

Focused specialist incantrix red wizard banning conjuration, transmuation, illusion, necromancy and evocation? You get abjuration, divination and enchantment.

Ninetail
2009-06-09, 01:43 AM
Focused specialist incantrix red wizard banning conjuration, transmuation, illusion, necromancy and evocation? You get abjuration, divination and enchantment.

Still more viable and competent than any non-caster.

Enchantment is a favorite of mine, even if it is among the weakest schools. It fits the characters I like to play. One reason I'm so fond of the beguiler class.

Going by core only... I'd probably arrange them like this:

1. Transmutation
2. Conjuration
3. Divination*
4. Illusion*
5. Necromancy
6. Abjuration
7. Enchantment
8. Evocation

* The power of divination and illusion, more so than the other schools, depends on how the GM rules them. With a restrictive GM, they can drop a couple of slots. With a permissive enough one, illusion might get up to #2 and divination might even take #1.

I'd also have to point out that abjuration's usefulness is disproportionate to its power. It doesn't shatter worlds (well, mostly). It prevents other spellcasters from shattering yours. Which is very important.

Gaiyamato
2009-06-09, 02:16 AM
Everyone underestimates the uses of good Diviniation. :)

quick_comment
2009-06-09, 07:46 AM
And evocation.

Enchantment is rendered entirely useless by a 8th level spell, or a plethora of other ways. Even on something immune to all elements, evocation still has force effects, especially forcecage.

OzymandiasVolt
2009-06-09, 09:14 AM
Best school: whatever's thematically appropriate for a given character.

Elminster1
2009-06-09, 09:19 AM
Evocation ain't the pits, it has some uses. Mostly Contingency and Wind Wall. But, Defenstrating Sphere ROCKS! And, my personal favorite evocation spell......HOWLING CHAIN!

For the most part direct damage is sub-par, in a perfect party. However, that being said, the Orb series (conjuration school) are just the absolute best for damage. No save or SR with a secondary effect is just, well, better.

Right now, I am in a 2 party campaign (me the wizard, my friend the sorceror). He has an Orb of electricity wand with a maximize metamagic wand grip. That's a beating.

Anyway, I agree Divination is very powerful. In heavier roleplaying campaigns, Divination magic can separate the men from the boys in terms of knowledge equals power.

I really love Transmutattion, flavorwise, alot. Morphing into monsters is awesome (especially with the Otherworldly feat). Problem is, Morphing into combat forms tends to showup the meleers.

Leaving Conjuration. Personally, I love summoning. But I love summoning super goodies. Angelic outsiders, unicorns, Zekelhuts, good dragons. There's just something awesome about having celestial friends at your aid. Plus, Genesis.....make my OWN personal dimension......yes please:smalltongue:

Decoy Lockbox
2009-06-09, 10:00 AM
Hmm okay, then what two schools should I ban (4e), if I don't go Divination? I'm thinking... Evocation, and maybe... _________*?

*Where I'm pretty much lost :smalltongue:

Are you aware that schools of magic no longer in exist in 4e? Just want to bring that to your attention.

Back in my 3.5 days, I played wizards more than anything, and conjuration/transmutation were my favorite. Though in my younger years I was certainly guilty of fireballing it up with the best of them (though I preferred energy substituted acid balls). Enervation is good stuff too, though I never got high enough to cast energy drain. necromany has some very, very nasty debuffs, and my favorites were ray of enfeeblement/ray of clumsiness (spell compendium), and the diabolical Channeled Lifetheft. Single target debuffing at it's finest.

Anybody ever pissed off their DM by using ray of stupidity to put dire bears into comas? Our Dm sent a souped up dire bear at us, the only monster in the fight, and my wizard (think he was named Prilosec OTC, "Official Thaumaturge Counselor", as he worked as a guidance counselor at a wizard's school) won initiative, calmly stepped forward, and nuked the poor bear's feeble 3 intelligence into the ground.

Those conjuration orbs are just made of win though. I would always keep a single, heavily metamagic'ed orb of force prepared, just in case something needed to be killed immediately.

Elminster1
2009-06-09, 10:21 AM
Gotta laugh about the Dire Bear incident. Yeah, I fondly remember Ray of Stupidity ending animal encounters. What were they thinking when they made that spell? No save AND it's damage? Wowsers.

Yeah, the Orbs pretty much rock. My Sorceror compatriot just abuses them to no end.

I think though, in my 3.5 wizardly playing, Glitterdust has GOT to be the one spell that caused many DM's to cry. Especially scuplted for extra frustration, lol.

Morty
2009-06-09, 10:53 AM
Focused specialist incantrix red wizard banning conjuration, transmuation, illusion, necromancy and evocation? You get abjuration, divination and enchantment.

Oh how I wish for an eyeroll smiley. Congratulations, you've found a combination that allows you to ban all schools but three with little combat use. How many times do we see it in play? And even if one did play such a character, there's plenty of useful things to do with it, especially with splatbooks. Even Divination gets some nice debuffs in Spell Compendium.


Best school: whatever's thematically appropriate for a given character.

So there's someone else out there who thinks that way. Good to know.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-09, 10:54 AM
Evocation ain't the pits, it has some uses. Mostly Contingency and Wind Wall. But, Defenstrating Sphere ROCKS! And, my personal favorite evocation spell......HOWLING CHAIN!

Evocation also has Miracle.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-09, 05:16 PM
Evocation also has Miracle.That's why there's Shadow Evocation. The entire school is obsoleted by the Orb line and one other spell.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-09, 05:17 PM
That's why there's Shadow Evocation. The entire school is obsoleted by the Orb line and one other spell.

Shadow Evocation can't duplicate Miracle.

The Glyphstone
2009-06-09, 05:38 PM
Not without Arcane Disciple hijinks, at least - and even then, it takes either being an actual Beguiler or a permissive DM to make it work.

Logalmier
2009-06-09, 05:43 PM
Shadow Evocation can't duplicate Miracle.

Miracle can't be cast by wizards anyways. And clerics can't ban schools.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-09, 05:44 PM
Miracle can't be cast by wizards anyways. And clerics can't ban schools.

Rainbow Servant 10. Done.

Logalmier
2009-06-09, 05:47 PM
Rainbow Servant 10. Done.

Okay, point taken.

...

On an unrelated side note, WotC has waaaaaaaay to many splatbooks.