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Zergrusheddie
2009-06-04, 09:39 PM
My Beguiler has Leadership and his net Leadership score is 13, which allows for a 9th level Cohort. I'm not exactly sure what to get based on the composition of the party:

Beguiler Level 10: I have a very limited selection of spells, so a Wizard might be useful because they could handle buffs and the like.

Mystic Theurge Level 10: My Wizard choice is kind of silly as there is a Mystic Theurge in the party. Getting a Batman would be stepping on his toes.

Half- Dragon Ogre Fighter: She has a strength of 45 and has full BAB. When she Power Attacks for full, she still nets a +18/+13 without buffs and deals 4d6+39. She killed a Stone Golem in one round with no buffs. We call her The Beast and because of her massive damage getting a Melee cohort seems almost redundant as she handles it just fine.

Since we only have three people but they all preform their jobs well( Beast is a melee machine, Mystic Theurge has good buffs and cures, and I am a an excellent Skill Monkey and have a very high DC on my spells) I am completely clueless as what to get.

Allowed books are SRD, Core, MM2, PH2, and Complete Arcane.

Best of luck y'all.
-Eddie

SilverClawShift
2009-06-04, 09:43 PM
Get something that makes you all even better at what you do then.

A Bard, Dragon Shaman, or Marshal. A bard is great because you can play it off as a personal minstrel following you around and singing of your heroics. The other classes are a little harder to explain, but still passable and handy.

Zergrusheddie
2009-06-04, 09:52 PM
Hmm, Bard might work but it would only really be useful for the Beast as I do not go into Melee and the Mystic Theurge is immune to Moral Effects.

T.G. Oskar
2009-06-04, 09:53 PM
For the Dragon Shaman option:

Every now and then, try issuing a command to the Half-Dragon Ogre partner of yours. It can even be a deliberate Bluff on your part, in conjunction with the Ogre. Since Dragon Shamans draw from the power of dragons, that particular one may be surprised that you actually "command" a kindred dragon, so s/he joins YOU so that you teach him/her how to do it. That would work fine with either kind of dragon so as long as you don't make the cohort's dragon choice the entire opposite of the half-dragon variety.

One particularly hilarious example would be the healer. That way, you get two cheerleaders for the price of one (the Healer who can't fight jack but heals like gold, and the Unicorn companion of your cohort who would pretty much follow you anyways, and probably allow you to mount it) Note I said hilarious, not cost-effective. You can slap some Spontaneous Healer to it and allow it to get non-healing spells, then leave your cohort with the wand of Cure Light Wounds and whatnot. If things get dangerous, call the cohort and make it do a heal, then command him to withdraw.

In your case, Bard or Marshal wouldn't be as effective because you lack a lot of melee spellcasters, those who the latter two most benefit. Bards are great for whenever you need to have a diplomat or general know-it-all, though. Or a part-time buffer.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-04, 09:54 PM
A Bard, Dragon Shaman, or Marshal. A bard is great because you can play it off as a personal minstrel following you around and singing of your heroics.

They can also be eaten if you are in a frozen wasteland and short on food. There will be much rejoicing.

Zergrusheddie
2009-06-04, 09:58 PM
They can also be eaten if you are in a frozen wasteland and short on food. There will be much rejoicing.

Yay....

The only problem with going for the whole Unicorn companion thing is that no self-respecting Unicorn would every be caught following a Lich, a Drow Beguiler, and a (basically) Adult Red Dragon. Trying for the Dragon Shaman to give orders to the Beast would result in the DS being torn apart.

Yahzi
2009-06-04, 10:15 PM
I'm not exactly sure what to get based on the composition of the party:
A Druid!

Then you can out-cast the Mystic Theurge, outfight the Barbarian, out-heal both of them, and ride your Druid's Animal Companion Unicorn around.

Heck, after you get your Druid, you should probably retire your original character... :smallbiggrin:

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-04, 11:23 PM
An Artificer(ECS). It essentially is a skill monkey with the ability to make any item it wants. An Artificer party member gets the party nearly 3x WBL. Yours being a lower level won't do that mch, but it's a party-boost, and adds a bunch of skills to your group.

Just bring a calculator, making an Artificer above 5th is like doing accounting homework.

BobVosh
2009-06-04, 11:33 PM
Hrmm, surprised noone mentioned this yet: Cohorts have to be 2 levels lower.


I am curious about the HD Ogre fighter. Ogre is...8 ECL I think, and HD is 3. That is level 11. You said fighter as well so another level. That character is level 12.

Meh, those rules aside...

I would also recommend a bard, as a few more buffs are never overkill. (NEVER!) Plus throwing down a haste gives the MT another action.

Then I would say artificier, but is outside your books.

A druid could be useful as well. You have no melee soaking machines (that ogre should have few hp from low HD.)

Eldariel
2009-06-04, 11:41 PM
Ogres are ECL 6 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ogre.htm).

Coidzor
2009-06-05, 01:06 AM
From Ogres as characters and the half dragon template from the SRD, it seems that it's a Half-Dragon Ogre Fighter(or was it Barb? not that it matters for this purpose, a level is a level) 5 with a LA of +5 from its racial shtuffs. If I'm adding the +3 LA from Ogre and the +2 LA from Half Dragon together right. I'm not very familiar with working with templates though, so I might be wrong. This being his co-adventurer, he should at least add up to being ECL 10 +/- 1... Or sommat. Argh.


And since he himself is a 10th level Drow Beguiler with leadership score of 13 that means that it doesn't matter since he's getting his highest level possible cohort from the get go (8th level, that is 10-2=8) along with 10 1st level followers and 1 2nd level follower in addition to Mr. or Mrs. or Ms. 8th level cohort.

So he can also think about what he wants to do with 11 classed NPC followers that aren't very servicable for combat purposes (can't recall if you can get all wizard followers and give them wands of X for artillery barrages or not... as I believe they recognize how much weaker they are than the character who calls them and so don't really wanna fight in level appropriate situations if possible.)

...And I just ended up not contributing anything useful in the slightest! :smallsigh:

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-05, 01:13 AM
New thought, after actually reading your post(I just got off work, sorry), would be a Knight, from PHBII. You can make it very strong defensively with no offense, but it makes enemies attack him instead of the rest of you, so it's always a good addition.

For the followers, I recommend grabbing a small piece of land and using them to start slowly turning a profit through craft checks and similar. Don't actually take the money, rather, re-invst it to make the land better defensively, and to boost their profit in various ways(I recommend tying up a poison-producing animal and using the BoVD rules to make poison at low cost). You never know when you'll need a fortress, after all.

BobVosh
2009-06-05, 01:58 AM
From Ogres as characters and the half dragon template from the SRD, it seems that it's a Half-Dragon Ogre Fighter(or was it Barb? not that it matters for this purpose, a level is a level) 5 with a LA of +5 from its racial shtuffs. If I'm adding the +3 LA from Ogre and the +2 LA from Half Dragon together right. I'm not very familiar with working with templates though, so I might be wrong.

I'm at work (SRD is blocked) so I can't tell you for sure. Anyway, 3 LA + 3 HD for ogre (going off of your LA mentioned, plus Eld's saying it is 6 ECL). Half-dragon is 2 LA, unless you are large (again, not at work, so can't check this number) in which case it is 3. So he can fit all that in and have 1 fighter level.

Hmm, knight may actually be a good choice. Small combat options=good cohort. Espically with a beguiler, as you should milk the most out of each action with a lot of choices.

Coidzor
2009-06-05, 02:21 AM
Hmm, yeah, the Knight definitely does sound like it could be a pretty good idea, basically buffing up his armor so he's a paragon of unassailability at the cost of purposely gimping his damage output potential by acknowledging that such is not his purpose (though of course, not discounting it completely... I'm sure you guys are encountering enough that you probably have spare armaments even if you're able to sink all of his appropriate wealth into his defensive capabilities.

For followers I would probably suggest artificers if you get a choice so they can double as foremen and crafters in constructing/enlarging/improving your homebase/fief, especially if you can choose their skill allocation. I think this more depends on the DM than on RAW though. Again, not sure about the adjudication of followers due to what I've been able to read of leadership(only have 3.0 DMG/PHB handy at the moment in addition to online SRD). None of these sources seem to specify anything about the generation of such individuals.

^: I believe I can quote the relevant portions of the SRD...

Ogre:
Racial Hit Dice: An ogre begins with four levels of giant, which provide 4d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +3, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +4, Ref +1, and Will +1.
# Racial Skills: An ogre’s giant levels give it skill points equal to 7 × (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1). Its class skills are Climb, Listen, and Spot.
# Racial Feats: An ogre’s giant levels give it two feats.
# Level adjustment +2.


Looks like I overlooked the "Four Levels of Giant" bit there, sorry. So that looks like Ogre does give an ECL of 6 as a base.

Half Dragon:
Creating A Half-Dragon

"Half-dragon" is an inherited template that can be added to any living, corporeal creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature).

A half-dragon uses all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here.

Size and Type: The creature’s type changes to dragon. Size is unchanged. Do not recalculate base attack bonus or saves.

Hit Dice: Increase base creature’s racial HD by one die size, to a maximum of d12. Do not increase class HD.
...
Challenge Rating: Same as the base creature + 2 (minimum 3).
Alignment: Same as the dragon variety.
Level Adjustment: Same as base creature +3.

So it looks like is a Fighter1/Giant4 + LA 5 = ECL 10. Unless it's an ECL 11, in which case that'd be a Fighter2. And that's that for that tangent... hopefully x.x.

Zergrusheddie
2009-06-05, 03:54 AM
The Beast is Fighter 2. We bought off the Level Adjustment early. She is, if I remember correctly, an ECL 8 character. The DM decided to go easier on the Level Adjustment rules as everyone is a monster. My Beguiler is the only without an insane amount of LA to buy off; the Mystic Theurge is a Drow Lich.

A Knight is ok, but the Beast runs at 32 AC. Trying to beat an extra 9 Natural Armor (the DM gave everyone special artifacts and her's doubled the bonuses from Half-Dragon Template aside from stats) is going to be very difficult and I do not think that a level 8 Cohort will be able to compete.

How powerful is a Core only Druid and would it even be able to be helpful when the Beast is unleashed? I've played a Druid but the DM was much more relaxed on allowing material like MM3 and SpC.

Best of luck
-Eddie

T.G. Oskar
2009-06-05, 04:08 AM
They don't call the Druid "Druidzilla" for no reason at all.

First, Wild Shape. Wild Shape is the reason why the Druid out-classes the Fighter in melee. Once you get to larger shapes and Dire versions, the fighter is effectively dead. Dire Bear has the highest Strength modifier out there, along decent Constitution and Improved Grapple; Dire Lion has Pounce for your charging needs, and Dire Wolf is for whenever you need to trip a lot.

Second, Natural Spell. Most of the optimizers force it upon Druid builds, and for a good reason. Wild Shape first, buff later. You can cast from Greater Magic Fang and Barkskin to attack spells such as Storm of Vengeance, Call Lightning Storm and Sunburst. Or, if you need healing, you can use Cure X Wounds, and later on Regeneration.

Third, your Animal Companion. Once you get the chance for a Dire Bear, exchange your current Animal Companion for it. Share Spells allows you to have excellent damage, and since you'll probably Wild Shape into another Dire Bear, you'll have a naturally flanking pal.

Fourth, spontaneous Summon Nature's Ally. Then, Bear-mageddon. Or, you can just clean house with a bunch of pouncing cats, or trippy Dire Wolves and a festival of attacks of opportunity.

The fact that a Druid 20 has so many useful abilities is the icing on the cake. Once that happens, you're pretty much immune to disease, poison, the effects of fae, can walk as normal through forests and such, and you can even transform into pretty beings if you're narcissist or think you're an elf when you're a human. It's not Alter Self, but still useful for infiltration and the like.

Heck, once you're reaching Epic, you remain as youthful as ever and gain nifty bonuses to Wisdom and Intelligence. That's a bonus.

JellyPooga
2009-06-05, 04:14 AM
Wight

ECL: 8? check
fit's montrous party theme? check
gives you an army of more wights to do your bidding? check

What more can you want? :smallwink:

Garian
2009-06-05, 01:14 PM
Hrmm, surprised noone mentioned this yet: Cohorts have to be 2 levels lower.
I was too.
It is possible if you have Hero's of Battle (HoB) you can get all sorts of cool leadership feats from with its pages.
One of them lets your cohort be one level higher then normal. Other then the feats and a few new spells the book really sucks. Don't buy it.

Hat-Trick
2009-06-05, 01:43 PM
Well, you have access to complete arcane, have you thought about getting a warlock or warmage for blasty goodness? Sure, they can't do much else, but you can have a small army of artillery if you need it.

KillianHawkeye
2009-06-05, 05:37 PM
Mystic Theurge Level 10


The DM decided to go easier on the Level Adjustment rules as everyone is a monster. My Beguiler is the only without an insane amount of LA to buy off; the Mystic Theurge is a Drow Lich.

Okay, I can get behind the idea of reducing LAs in an all LA party, but a Drow Mystic Theurge LICH at Level 10!?!? Even with practiced spellcaster (and not counting ANY of the LA at all), he doesn't meet the basic qualifications to create the necessary phylactery! :smallconfused::smallconfused:

Zergrusheddie
2009-06-05, 07:28 PM
Okay, I can get behind the idea of reducing LAs in an all LA party, but a Drow Mystic Theurge LICH at Level 10!?!? Even with practiced spellcaster (and not counting ANY of the LA at all), he doesn't meet the basic qualifications to create the necessary phylactery! :smallconfused::smallconfused:

He is Character level 10, not Mystic Theurge 10. That was my fault. Our last batch of characters was wiped out by a Deck of Many Things. The MT's girlfriend drew 4 cards and was sucked into a void and I had already wanted to try out a Beguiler so we retired those characters. The MT had his soul sucked into a void, but he had found an artifact that was already attached to his soul. The player has to pay off 30k debt before he can level again, so I will be level 12 or so before he gets any higher. His artifact is his phylactery and we aren't exactly sure what happens if he dies. It's an unique/strange game.

The DM likes to give special things to every character because it makes each character special rather than just "Jon's Mystic Theurge that one time." I've got an artifact that grants temporary Wishes whenever I preform a "great feat of magic" (I got the first one when I rolled a Natural 20 to beat SR; all my spells for the next few days offer no SR) and the Beast just recently got an item that made her a True Dragon with the ability to return to a Hybrid Form. The Lich's artifact has basically begun 'eating' every magical item it comes in contact with and I'm sure it will begin to make life miserable for the Lich.