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Froogleyboy
2009-06-04, 11:54 PM
Ok, people. As many of you know, I am working on an Epic Wizard (Technicly its a Wizard5/Psion5/Cerbremancer15) and Ihave to thank those who helped with my last dileme (sp?) but now I need a weapon. My Str and Dex are both 10 so no bonuses. Do I really need a weapon? If so, Is there any good weapon for me?

The Glyphstone
2009-06-04, 11:56 PM
Scythes are traditional because of their "spooky wizard' vibe and their usefulness for Coup De Grace. you won't be making many of those at epic levels though, so pick whatever looks cool. However, it must be made out of crystal or Deep Crystal.

Goatman_Ted
2009-06-04, 11:57 PM
A +1 Defending Warning/+1 Eager Spellstrike Quarterstaff comes to mind

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-04, 11:58 PM
You want a +1 Eager Warning Defending Parrying Dagger. You should never toss a Coup-De-Gras at high levels, that's what your pet Balor is for.

mikej
2009-06-05, 12:00 AM
Weapon?

In my experience with the Wizard, I was at level 8th and still carried around just a normal non-masterwork dagger. Spells are the offensive tools, let the melee char handle the weapons. Although, if I had to choose a better weapon, it would just be a humble enhanced ( Defending & Eager have been already mentioned) quaterstaff.

Froogleyboy
2009-06-05, 12:08 AM
Well, one problam with the "Let the melee dude do it" plan, We are not on a team. We each rule a city (that we design) and we are ,at the moment, trying to defend the island we live on from an invading country. After that we will just rule and confront problems for our city (I don't know to much about the story line afterwards)
Cities will make alliances with one another, or even go to war against each other so . . . Yeah

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-05, 12:09 AM
Wield two wands. It's pimp.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-05, 12:14 AM
Well, one problam with the "Let the melee dude do it" plan, We are not on a team. We each rule a city (that we design) and we are ,at the moment, trying to defend the island we live on from an invading country. After that we will just rule and confront problems for our city (I don't know to much about the story line afterwards)
Cities will make alliances with one another, or even go to war against each other so . . . YeahYou should always have a melee dude. Animate Dead, Planar Binding, Mindrape, Gate, Gaterape, the Big Stupid Fighter doesn't need to be sentient, just big and able to hit things REALLY HARD.

Devils_Advocate
2009-06-05, 12:16 AM
I'd expect an epic wizard to reach for a magic staff or metamagic rod or something, not a dagger or a crossbow or a scythe.

If you can't manage to hire a big dumb fighter big and dumb enough to face off against epic threats, then just summon/call/gate/whatever something to play meatshield.

Edit: Hell, build a golem. Build several, even.

Froogleyboy
2009-06-05, 12:18 AM
You should always have a melee dude. Animate Dead, Planar Binding, Mindrape, Gate, Gaterape, the Big Stupid Fighter doesn't need to be sentient, just big and able to hit things REALLY HARD.

Wha . . .

RTGoodman
2009-06-05, 12:26 AM
Wha . . .

Obviously you haven't been around here long enough. :smalltongue: Those are a couple of the "hot topics" for a few of folks 'round here...

Mindrape is a spell from... Book of Vile Darkness, I think, that, well, does what you think it does. You basically get to reprogram the subject's brain, including memories and the like.

"Gaterape" is an optimization trick where you gate in a powerful critter (great wyrm prismatic dragon, solar, whatever), mindrape it. After that, you can do what you want with it (including bringing in more minions, if you can call solars and balors and such "minions").

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-05, 12:30 AM
Wha . . .

Collin shall be along shortly to explain.

Froogleyboy
2009-06-05, 12:31 AM
So . . . I could summon a balor , mind rape it, and make it summon more minions?

RTGoodman
2009-06-05, 12:33 AM
So . . . I could summon a balor , mind rape it, and make it summon more minions?

Yeah, but, I mean, you've also got a mindraped balor. You can basically do what you want. Minions are just part of it. If you can grab the great wyrm prismatic dragon I mentioned (don't remember the source), it has epic spellcasting built in.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-05, 12:33 AM
So . . . I could summon a balor , mind rape it, and make it summon more minions?Yep. It works best when you pick something with the ability to cast both Gate and Mindrape. Exponential progression of CR20+ minions. You mentioned a war?

BobVosh
2009-06-05, 12:42 AM
Also, if for some reason BoVD is disallowed, programmed amnesia is the same exact spell. In the spell compendium.

Froogleyboy
2009-06-05, 12:44 AM
Yep. It works best when you pick something with the ability to cast both Gate and Mindrape. Exponential progression of CR20+ minions. You mentioned a war?

What creatures have those abilities?

Gnorman
2009-06-05, 12:52 AM
What creatures have those abilities?

OH LOOK WHAT HAVE WE WROUGHT UPON THIS POOR DM.

But seriously. Plenty of creatures have Gate. Solars come to mind. But Mindrape? Well, you'd have to have a creature with 9th level sorc/wizard casting. I don't think anything has it as an SLA.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-05, 12:54 AM
What creatures have those abilities?If Mindrape appears on the Cleric list(it's been a while since I checked), anything that casts as a 17th level Cleric, including Solars.

If not, you have to cast it yourself(how many 9th level slots do you have again), but your options to summon gets larger, since a lot of things get Gate. It's Mindrape that's hard to find as an SLA or spell known, especially since Wish can't emulate it. If you do find something with Mindrape, though, even if it doesn't have Gate, you can pull this off with no investment from you. Just Gaterape a Gater and a Summoner, have them summon a Gater first and Mindrape it, then Gate a Mindraper and Mindrape it, then have your 4 pets repeat. It grows...quickly.

Malicte
2009-06-05, 12:55 AM
Wield two wands. It's pimp.

Only if the character refers to them as Hurt and Burn, respectively.

RTGoodman
2009-06-05, 12:59 AM
Also, if for some reason BoVD is disallowed, programmed amnesia is the same exact spell. In the spell compendium.

Not quite - I think mindrape is a standard action, while programmed amnesia has a 10-minute casting time. Not a terrible difference, but if you need it fast, the former's the better option.


What creatures have those abilities?

Well, anything that gets full casting abilities. Some great wyrms get 9th-level spells, so they'd work, but you'd have to find a way for them to actually get the spells. If you can't get anything with mindrape, well, you can still gate in things that have gate as a SLA or spell, and then do the mindraping yourself.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-05, 01:07 AM
Not quite - I think mindrape is a standard action, while programmed amnesia has a 10-minute casting time. Not a terrible difference, but if you need it fast, the former's the better option.Mindrape is better in every way, though it does have the Evil descriptor which Programmed Amnesia lacks. A point of warning if you go PA is that it is Permanent, which means it can be Dispelled or Disjoined. Mindrape, of course, is instantaneous.
Well, anything that gets full casting abilities. Some great wyrms get 9th-level spells, so they'd work, but you'd have to find a way for them to actually get the spells. If you can't get anything with mindrape, well, you can still gate in things that have gate as a SLA or spell, and then do the mindraping yourself.Runestaves, from MIC, would work.

It is also worth mentioning that this sits on the border between Practical Optimization and Theoretical Optimization. It is viewed as far too cheesy to do in any game except the absolute highest power games, ones where Divine Metamagic is common and Artificers are viewed as limited.

Froogleyboy
2009-06-05, 01:11 AM
Mindrape is better in every way, though it does have the Evil descriptor which Programmed Amnesia lacks. A point of warning if you go PA is that it is Permanent, which means it can be Dispelled or Disjoined. Mindrape, of course, is instantaneous. Runestaves, from MIC, would work.

It is also worth mentioning that this sits on the border between Practical Optimization and Theoretical Optimization. It is viewed as far too cheesy to do in any game except the absolute highest power games, ones where Divine Metamagic is common and Artificers are viewed as limited.

Well our game is pretty powerful. It was 40 point buy and Epic so . . . . .

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-05, 01:15 AM
Well our game is pretty powerful. It was 40 point buy and Epic so . . . . .Then snag BoVD and unleash your horde of Solars and Dragons on the world. Your DM deserves it.

Brock Samson
2009-06-05, 01:18 AM
As far as your actual weapon though, nothing's like a Quarterstaff
Side A (total of +5)
- +1
- Transmuting [+2 bonus in the MIC p. 45 after you hit someone, the next round the staff automatically overcomes all damage reduction they may have]
- Sizing (+5000 gp - MIC p. 43 adjusts to any size)
- Morphing (+1 bonus - MIC p. 39 can become ANY weapon)
- Defending (+1 bonus - DMG can apply enhancement bonus to AC)
Side B (total of +4)
- +1
- Warning (+1 bonus - MIC p. 46- gives a +5 insight bonus to initiative rolls when held
- Eager (+1 bonus - MIC p. 44 gives a +2 unnamed bonus to initiative, and +2 damage during the first round of combat)
- Defending (+1 bonus)

Then Greater Magic Weapon each side, cast Greater Mighty Whallup 1/day (hours/level), and polymorph/shapechange yourself into anything large or huge or whatever and deal damage that makes beatsticks cry before they can even reach you. Not to mention how fun it is that you can just change your weapon into any other anytime you want, great role-play flavor.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-05, 01:22 AM
As far as your actual weapon though, nothing's like a Quarterstaff
Side A (total of +5)
- +1
- Transmuting [+2 bonus in the MIC p. 45 after you hit someone, the next round the staff automatically overcomes all damage reduction they may have]
- Sizing (+5000 gp - MIC p. 43 adjusts to any size)
- Morphing (+1 bonus - MIC p. 39 can become ANY weapon)
- Defending (+1 bonus - DMG can apply enhancement bonus to AC)
Side B (total of +4)
- +1
- Warning (+1 bonus - MIC p. 46- gives a +5 insight bonus to initiative rolls when held
- Eager (+1 bonus - MIC p. 44 gives a +2 unnamed bonus to initiative, and +2 damage during the first round of combat)
- Defending (+1 bonus)

Then Greater Magic Weapon each side, cast Greater Mighty Whallup 1/day (hours/level), and polymorph/shapechange yourself into anything large or huge or whatever and deal damage that makes beatsticks cry before they can even reach you. Not to mention how fun it is that you can just change your weapon into any other anytime you want, great role-play flavor.No. You're an Epic, Dual-progression, SAD caster. If yoou make an attack roll for anything other than a touch spell, you have failed. Pick up Parrying long before any bonus that needs you to swing the weapon.

Goatman_Ted
2009-06-05, 01:26 AM
^ What STK said, but spread the bonuses out to stretch the budget.

Froogleyboy
2009-06-05, 01:29 AM
Then snag BoVD and unleash your horde of Solars and Dragons on the world. Your DM deserves it.

Well . . . I don't want to tick him off. He's a good dude. He let me slide with a lot of stuff during character creation (such as, he let me pay 1mil and know every wizard spell written in any book ever)

Brock Samson
2009-06-05, 01:33 AM
But hitting things is fun, even for a Wizard. Especially when you persist Wraithstrike and have Bite of the Wearbear on you as you're shapechanged into some monstrous monstrosity.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-05, 01:36 AM
Well . . . I don't want to tick him off. He's a good dude. He let me slide with a lot of stuff during character creation (such as, he let me pay 1mil and know every wizard spell written in any book ever)Considering the cost of spells(50GP/level) and the number of spells that are grade-AA cow manure, you got rolled on that(9 levels of spells, if there are 200 9th level spells it doesn't cost 100K, and there have to be more spells of the lower levels to get the same effect). It's great for bookkeeping reasons, but really not letting you get away with something.

Also, it's his fault for playing Epic. Look at the thread from a week ago asking if there's any way to kill a 20th level Wizard without another full caster(short answer: No). Epic casters are broken even without the swirling vortex of insanity that is Epic Casting.

Froogleyboy
2009-06-05, 01:42 AM
True but we just wana have fun. My players always do jerk-offy stuff when I let them do cool stuff and it pisses me off. Dave is k00l (oh yeah, with a K)

mostlyharmful
2009-06-05, 05:24 AM
Your weapon is either Epic Spellcasting or an army of minions slavishly loyal to your will of CR 25+ (as has already been mentioned).

For an actual weapon I'm quite fond of spellguard, +1 enhancement that makes you immune to one specific spell, you don't need to ready it, just have it in your backpack and get one for disjunction, greater dispeling and reaving dispel (forget dispel, no way is that striping you of buffs) and go to town.

The initiative boosts and save boosts ones are also nice, but beyound that yes, let the minion carry the pointy sticks.

Edit; Also, I just read your all spells for a million gp, that's a terrible deal that you should try to renegotiate. You'll actually want to use less than ten percent of the printed spells and loads and loads of those are virtually duplicate effects. I'd be amazed if you actually need more than 2% of written spells to be able to do anything at all you want. That being said, each one should either cost nothing at all, 50xlevel or 150xlevel dependant on your DMs rulings AND NEVER MORE. You shouldn't need to pay more than 25k for all the spells you'll ever need ever and that's being hugely generous and over the top for the sake of saving time. 1Million gp is a lot of power and options down the plug for no pay back.

Killer Angel
2009-06-05, 05:39 AM
I am working on an Epic Wizard.
snip
Do I really need a weapon? If so, Is there any good weapon for me?

Of course you need it.
A Knife. In combo with a fork. When you're sitting at the dinner-table in your magnificent mansion in your own demiplane, a knife it's a tool you should always have.
Enjoy the simple life pleasures, while you cut by yourself that delicious steak... :smalltongue:

Fastmover
2009-06-05, 06:53 AM
Wield two wands. It's pimp.

I second and third this idea.

OverdrivePrime
2009-06-05, 07:16 AM
Just for imagery's sake, I will add my approval to the dual wands named Hurt and Burn (maybe get a triple wand claw?).
Or, for pure awesomesauce and a look that says "Do not touch", get a deep crystal scythe, preferably radiating shadow energy.

kamikasei
2009-06-05, 07:37 AM
Only if the character refers to them as Hurt and Burn, respectively.

No no: Bono, and Sandra Day O'Connor.

For proper class, I would say go with either a quarterstaff (if you don't use a mage's staff anyway) or a dagger.

Devils_Advocate
2009-06-05, 02:07 PM
True but we just wana have fun. My players always do jerk-offy stuff when I let them do cool stuff and it pisses me off. Dave is k00l (oh yeah, with a K)
Well, then, just ignore anyone telling you to prove how broken Epic levels are. If it's just gonna make the game less fun for everyone, definitely don't do it.

You could play a Good-aligned character who makes a point of not exploiting non-threatening beings and protecting innocents. That could be a good way to counterbalance some potential for abuse while still allowing you to optimize within a narrower set of parameters.

You could even hit things with an actual weapon if you think that would be fun, but that's really not playing to a wizard's strengths. An epic wizard is gonna tend to cast spells at things until they're the way he wants them.

Tetsubo 57
2009-06-05, 02:20 PM
While your spells should be your first line of defense, having an actual physical weapon at hand is useful. The staff is of course the de facto mage weapon. The dagger or athame is handy both as a last ditch defensive weapon and a tool. I like a mace myself as a weapon. A spear can be nice as well.

Froogleyboy
2009-06-05, 04:44 PM
I think I'll just use a "ShockLance"

Worira
2009-06-05, 06:23 PM
A kettle. Brevity is the soul of getting cut off by the forum.

Gadora
2009-06-06, 01:52 AM
If you're allowed to use the Arms and Equipment Guide, you could carry a Staff of Memory (+1 quarterstaff that lets you switch out a prepared spell, once per day, for a lower level spell that you've already cast), a Sorcerer's Hand (+2 light crossbow that boosts any rays you cast), an Ioun Blade (+1 dagger that can hold, and let you use, a hidden Ioun Stone), a Deathwand Crossbow (+2 light crossbow that can hold, and let you use, two wands), or a Ringsword with a ring of spell storing (+3 longsword that can hold, and let you use, a ring).

The Mentalist
2009-06-06, 01:56 AM
I think that Reserve Feats were built for this purpose.