View Full Version : A [Feat] for Tanks [3.5] (Peach)

2009-06-05, 10:57 AM
Blocker [Fighter]
"You shall not pass!"
Prerequisites: Expertise, Combat Reflexes, BAB +3
Benefits: For the purposes of the Total Defense action, you count as having 5 ranks in the tumble skill. When you take the full defense action, your ability to make attacks of opportunity is not negated, and you gain +2 to hit with such attacks. The DC of tumble checks to avoid provoking an AoO from you is increased by 5.
If you do not take a 5 foot step on your turn while using total defense as a full-round action, then once per round you may take a 5 foot step as an immediate action, before an action that would provoke an attack of opportunity from your new position, but not your old one is resolved. You must then make the attack of opportunity in question. If the provoking action is movement, the provoking character may negate the attack immediately after you move by stopping short in such a way that he is within your threatened area at the end of the move, but would not have provoked an AoO if you had started his turn in the square you now occupy.
Moving in this way does not break a Dwarven Defender's defensive stance, nor Stone Dragon Stances, nor a Deepstone Sentinel's Mountain Fortress stance, nor any other similar stance or ability.
Normal: You may not make attacks of opportunity in a round you took full defense and may not move as a reaction to create an attack of opportunity.
Special: A fighter may take this feat as one of his bonus feats.

Improved Blocker [Fighter]
"NONE of you shall pass!"
Prerequisites: Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Blocker, BAB +10
Benefits: When using the Blocker Feat, you may may move a total distance up to your speed in 5' steps each round (as measured from the end of one your turns to the start of the next), but only as provided by the Blocker feat (plus a single 5' step on your turn) and only as long as you have AoO's remaining. This means that you may only take a single 5' step each time someone moves in such a way as to activate the Blocker feat.
Moving in this way does not break a Dwarven Defender's defensive stance, nor Stone Dragon Stances, nor a Deepstone Sentinel's Mountain Fortress stance, nor any other similar stance or ability no matter how many 5' steps are taken.

Special: A fighter may take this feat as one of his bonus feats.

This feat allows for blocking a wider area (25' wide, rather than 15' wide) so that a single character may protect the back-liners better. I might change so it also allows directly blocking charge attacks (or make that a separate feat). Basically, this feat is meant to go in an "ultimate meat-shield" build that is most perfected when it never deals any damage in combat (because the enemy knows better)... or at least never closes on an opponent.

I was considering 5 ranks of Tumble as a pre-requisite, since that enhances total defense, but I decided against it. Gave the benefit of that as part of the feat... because fighters need more love.

Should I also give it a damage bonus on the AoOs?

So... what do people think?

And yes, I am aware that the flavor text may be a bit of a mismatch... but I actually think it fits the mood, if not the tactics, of that scene.

EDIT: Fixed it so you can't get an AoO on someone charging you by stepping forward and to the side.

EDIT^2: Jotting down a follow-up feat here... the Great Cleave to the above's Cleave... probably in serious need of editing for clarity.

EDIT^3: October 21st 2009, Moved some stuff around for clarity, upgraded the first one so it doesn't break stances, and added language to take Tome of Battle Book of Nine Swords into account.

Baron Corm
2009-06-05, 01:00 PM
Well, it looks like 3 different feats to me. Maybe a tactical feat if you worded it differently.

I don't like that the provoking creature gets to choose whether to stop or not. In most cases, he would just choose not to stop, if he wanted to get at the casters. There should be a mechanic for forcing him to stop instead. Perhaps, instead of an attack of opportunity, make it a bull rush?

2009-06-05, 01:20 PM
Nah, I didn't design it to be that fool proof (maybe a later feat in the chain), they just gotta take the AoO.

And tactical feats(as I understand it) are usually OR things, this is definitely suppose to be an AND thing.

And I know it does a lot, but it is all pretty closely related, and fighters need the love.

2009-06-05, 10:23 PM
This is a VERY GOOD feat!
I want it, badly.

But... it doesn't break the balance, because it only helps classes that need some love.

and... Not every character (even every melee character) is going to get it.

Which, to me, means it's a good feat.

2009-06-05, 11:52 PM
TheGrimace: Thank you. Glad you like it and it is good to know you think it is balanced.

Addendum to my previous post: And if you want him to stop, I DO believe you can use an AoO for the touch attack to start a grapple.

EDIT: Someone pointed out the changes in Dwarven Defender between 3.0 and 3.5 to me... considering making the 5' steps granted by this feat not end the Defensive Stance. What do people think?

2009-06-07, 03:15 PM
my suggestion is that you instead make five foot steps not breaking a Defensive Stance the rule, instead of an epic feat.

Dwarven defender is a sound prestige class, has good mechanics, and a good idea. Just too many restrictions.

2009-06-07, 03:47 PM
Don't think anyone was EVER suggesting it should be an EPIC feat... and Dwarven Defender can take a 5' step once per round without breaking the stance, provided they are class level 8 or higher.

I think someone on an IRC net I frequent briefly suggested to me somewhere that allowing the 5' step might be something good as a second feat in the chain, but when they remembered the 8th level thing they said "nah, that is silly".

The other thing I might allow is a 5' step to block a charge... they could alter course and go around you, but that makes it a move+attack on their original target and you get the AoO on them. Alternatively, they could change the target of the charge to you. In either case it would be an improvement for the squishy wizard you are protecting... what do people think?

Edit: Went ahead and put in the rule about Dwarven defenders.

2009-06-07, 05:03 PM
I wasn't totally clear with myself.

pg 63 of the epic level handbook, Mobile defense, allows you to take a five foot step without losing your stance benefits.

but this thread isn't about that anyway. Yeah, allowing the Dwarven defender to take the step is a good idea. I don't understand entirely what you mean by the charger being able to redirect himself around you (move and attack)

2009-06-07, 05:47 PM
Charges have to be in a straight line. Move actions don't. If you step into the path of the charge, they can't charge the original target anymore, but they might be able to charge you (if they moved at least 10') or detour around you (meaning it is no longer a charge, and they draw an AoO).

2009-06-08, 01:30 AM
so, what happens if they have already moved more than their speed when you interpose yourself?

2009-06-08, 03:26 AM
Well, if I make that change (which I haven't yet), they would have to stop short, one way or another or change their action to a double move. In the case of ending further movement they either just stop short, or (more likely) changing the target of the charge attack to be you.

Oh, and I had an idea for a second feat in the chain so I am going to edit that in to the original post...

Would forcing the enemy to stop if the AoO hits be a third feat in the chain, or "sibling" feat to Improved Blocker. In other words, if I make that, should it have Improved Blocker as a pre-requisite.

Also, I did the (very simple) math and realized that Improved Blocker (and really Blocker, since it requires Combat Reflexes to take) requires Dex 14 and Int 13 to be worth taking.

2009-06-08, 04:22 AM
I like this.

Also, it seems to me that a good companion feat to this would be Taunt, which would force the attacker to make a Will save, or else they attack the blocker instead of their original target (is there already a feat that does this?).

That way if they've got the brawn to absorb the AoO and keep moving, they probably don't have the Will save needed to ignore the taunt, and vice versa. :smallwink:

2009-06-08, 04:30 AM
Could work, might already exist (how does Knight's Challenge work?). I am not going to make any such feat any time soon, if ever, so someone else can take that one.