PDA

View Full Version : 3.5 Monk Build



theonesin
2009-06-05, 02:12 PM
I thought I'd just go ahead and make a new topic for this, instead of using my old Paladin thread.

Anyway, my DM has stuck me with a Dwarven Monk, but he's letting me build it up instead of generating it himself.

We're starting at level 5, are limited to core-only (mostly stuff from d20srd.org), cannot multiclass or use Prestige Classes, and we are given no money to buy anything (instead, the DM is giving us stuff himself. My Monk just gets a Monk's Belt, two +1 kamas non-magical, and some potions).

Any help would be good, thanks.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-05, 02:13 PM
The name should be Fistbeard Beardfist.

Optimystik
2009-06-05, 02:15 PM
*pulls up chair*
*popcorn*

(Can't multiclass or Prc? ouch)

What are your stats?

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-05, 02:21 PM
Weapon Finess, pump Dex and Wis, grab Ability Focus: Stunning Fist asap.

Alleine
2009-06-05, 02:23 PM
The name should be Fistbeard Beardfist.

Unarmed strike with his beard? +10 awesome points.

theonesin
2009-06-05, 02:25 PM
Rolls are 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 17.

Edit: Ok, I guess they don't have to be kamas. Just two +1 weapons, non-magical.

Curmudgeon
2009-06-05, 02:28 PM
You want Improved Natural Attack (unarmed strike) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#improvedNaturalAttack).

Goatman_Ted
2009-06-05, 02:31 PM
This is a rough setup.

What I'd do:

17 Strength, Constitution and Wisdom. 14 Dexterity. 13 Intelligence. 10 Charisma.

Increase Strength or Wisdom to 18, depending on how prevalent Polymorph effects are going to be.

For feats, Power Attack, Stunning Fist, Combat Reflexes and Ability Focus--Stunning Fist.

Faleldir
2009-06-05, 02:33 PM
Play a Duergar grappler covered with contact poison.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-05, 02:34 PM
Goatman, he only has 2 17s.

I'd go

STR 17
DEX 14
CON 15
INT 12
WIS 17
CHA 12

Would not take Power Attack unless Quarterstaff is going to be used.

Goatman_Ted
2009-06-05, 02:36 PM
Goatman, he only has 2 17s.
With racial modifiers, I think we just said the same thing.


And I was assuming a quarterstaff mostly out of habit.
If a magic staff isn't going to be available, Improved Natural Attack or Improved Initiative would work instead.

Also, +1 non-magical weapons? You mean masterwork?

theonesin
2009-06-05, 02:49 PM
I don't know. The DM just said we'd be given +1 weapons, but without any magic abilities? Not sure how that would work.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-05, 02:50 PM
Perhaps he meant a +1 enhancement bonus without any abilities.

theonesin
2009-06-05, 02:52 PM
I think so. He said the same about armor (even though I probably won't need armor as a Monk).

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-05, 03:19 PM
I think so. He said the same about armor (even though I probably won't need armor as a Monk).Ask if you can snag Bracers of Armor +1 and an Amulet of Mighty Fists +1 instead. They suck, but they're better than using actual weapons and armor.

RagnaroksChosen
2009-06-05, 03:33 PM
Do bracers of armour count against a monk?

darkblust
2009-06-05, 03:57 PM
I think your dm meant that it has the powers of a plus 1 wep,but its not magic?i mean,without a bonus.

Flickerdart
2009-06-05, 04:01 PM
Do bracers of armour count against a monk?
No, they're not actually armour, but a magic item.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-06-05, 04:08 PM
I would second the suggestion to see if you can get Amulet of Natural Attacks +1 and Bracers of Armor +1 instead of a pair of actual weapons. It will be MUCH more useful for you.

I would also suggest the feat Improved Natural Attack to increase your unarmed damage. Combined with a Monk's Belt, this will let you dish out respectable damage.

Pump Wis and Dex as your two primary stats, as both give AC, which will be VITAL for you. In fact, I'd switch Dex and Strength. The extra couple point of damage is not going to be worth the extra couple points of AC. Particularly at lower levels.

Mostly, you got screwed by the GM, but this is going to be about as good as you can reasonably get out of the choices inflicted upon you.

theonesin
2009-06-05, 04:52 PM
Where can I find the Amulet of Natural Attacks?

IM@work
2009-06-05, 04:54 PM
Let's see:
Monk's Belt:
Monk attack 5 levels higher
Improved Natural Attack:
One size level higher in damage.

So at level 6th when you qualify for INA, you have 2d6, with the belt added on that's 2d8.
Eh. Not bad. At level 7 you can get up to 3d6, which is pretty decent.
However, still need non-core options to really do some damage/be effective as a monk.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-05, 04:55 PM
Where can I find the Amulet of Natural Attacks?You can't. There's a Necklace of Natural Attacks, from Savage Species, which is great, or an Amulet of Mighty Fists in the Core DMG, which is less useful and more expensive, but neither in a way that matters at your current level.

theonesin
2009-06-05, 05:02 PM
Name mix-up then?

At any rate, I guess I should be looking into the Bracers of Armor +1 and Amulet of Mighty Striking +1? How do those compare cost-wise to +1 weapons and armor?

skeeter_dan
2009-06-05, 05:27 PM
From the SRD

Bracers of Armor +1 = 1000 gp
Amulet of Mighty Fists +1 = 6000 gp

+1 Armor = 1000 gp + mwk armor cost
+1 weapon = 2000 gp + mwk weapon cost

As you can see, the amulet of mighty fists is significantly more expensive than a +1 weapon. It's also ridiculously necessary. Try your best to convince your DM...

Also, take Improved Natural Attack as soon as you can, which will be 6th level.

Tokiko Mima
2009-06-05, 05:35 PM
Name mix-up then?

At any rate, I guess I should be looking into the Bracers of Armor +1 and Amulet of Mighty Striking +1? How do those compare cost-wise to +1 weapons and armor?

The Amulet of Mighty Fists is fully three times as expensive as an equivalently enchanted melee weapon, but goes no higher than +5 and won't allow weapon properties to be added per RAW (ask your DM about this.) It's kind of a ripoff, but it's the best and worst thing out there for unarmed striking monks.

Bracers of Armor are much more reasonable and costs the same as enchanted armor with the same bonus, however this is armor bonus and not armor enhancement bonus (which is good and bad in different situations.) Be sure you look up Bracers of Armor in the Arms and Equipment Guide (3.0) because it has the rules for adding armor properties to your Bracers.

Side note: Is there no way you can ask your DM to let you be an Unarmed Variant Swordsage instead of a monk? That class will hurt a lot less with the 'no multiclassing no PrC' rules later on.

theonesin
2009-06-05, 05:40 PM
The Amulet is probably out then, as the DM would likely deem it too expensive compared to what everyone else gets. The Bracers might work though.

And no, there's no chance of using any non-core class.

raptor1056
2009-06-05, 05:58 PM
The only way to make a monk is really good is to multiclass until you drool. You need levels in Psychic Warrior and stuff. Without that stuff, just ask the DM if you can get a +20 BAB and d10 HD. Only way to make a monk playable.

Fuzzy_Juan
2009-06-05, 06:06 PM
I like the 3x 17 build for ya...and i'd say pump the dex to 18 before the wisdom.

stunning fist and combat reflexes are good for monk choices...

magic items...

for armor, get yourself the bracers of magic armor, whatever he'll give you. if he is allowing the shield users to have a magic shield, see if you can also get a ring of protection or maybe a vest/cloak of resistance.

Since magical weapons are 2k each, and he is allowing for 2, see if you can trade them for that amulet of mighty fists they were talking about...otherwise, take whatever will benefit you most...maybe a magic crossbow and staff?

If you are going to be sneaky, maybe see about other minor magic items if he'll just give you cash and say get what you want...a cloak or boots of elvenkind can go a very long way to making you an accomplished sneak. That monk's belt is awesome, don't give that up for sure.

for feats, depends a bit on your style...if your group uses grappling any, improved grapple may be very beneficial...a great way to screw casters and to deny fighting types use of their bigger weapons. for your other feat, you'll have to see if you can get any info on the group or scenario. Though disarm might be good.

Tokiko Mima
2009-06-05, 06:17 PM
The Amulet is probably out then, as the DM would likely deem it too expensive compared to what everyone else gets. The Bracers might work though.

And no, there's no chance of using any non-core class.

Maybe Psychic Warrior (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psychicWarrior.htm) then? That is in the SRD and the d20srd.com too. Considering that the 4th Editions Monk is powered by Psionics in the same fashion, it seems a close match. A Psychic Warrior is a tremendous improvement in the field of fighting unarmed, and it does not hit a wall after two levels like the monk does.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-05, 06:20 PM
The DM also does not want the horrors of multiclassing inflicted on the Monk.

Tokiko Mima
2009-06-05, 06:27 PM
I know, I was thinking Dwarven Psychic Warrior instead of Dwarven Monk. :smallamused:

I am looking out for the OP's best gameplay interests, honestly.

ericgrau
2009-06-05, 06:38 PM
Kamas can be made to make trip attacks, so take advantage of that. Trip is a strength check and you have really high stats so I'd avoid the finesse route. A feat for +1 AC and less damage? No thanks. You get improved trip at level 6 so you'll just have to wait on that, but in the mean time you can still make trip attempts without provoking AoOs using the kamas. Strength is also good for your grapple modifier, so I'd get improved grapple at level 1, though stunning fist would work fine too.

So for stats that means str 18 (17+1), con 19 (17+2), dex 15 (for TWF), wis 14, int 13, cha 12. Or if you like other people's arrays that's fine too, especially if you want stunning fist. Just remember if you don't get stunning fist then wis is no better than dex.

Since you have two kamas, take TWF for the extra attack. Since trip attempts are touch attacks followed by strength checks, the -2 won't really hurt you. Now you're up to 3 trip attempts on a flurry. FAQ says this is legal too, btw, in case you're unsure. 1 feat left. If there's anything you want to be able to do then just take the feat for that. Otherwise consider weapon focus: kama (but the touch attacks are easy), improved initiative or dodge for so-so general options. As a tripper you may want combat reflexes for your 2nd monk feat, to use your AoO's for trips.

In character see if you can hunt down potions of enlarge person or get your party caster to cast it on you. It'll give you a +5 to both grapple checks and trip attempts, plus a 10 ft. reach for more AoO's. It's a level 1 potion so I'd say buying it is reasonable to role-play.

For skills I'd get tumble and whichever 4 skills your DM pays attention to.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-05, 07:24 PM
The Amulet is probably out then, as the DM would likely deem it too expensive compared to what everyone else gets. The Bracers might work though.

And no, there's no chance of using any non-core class.Necklace of Natural Attacks, Savage Species. The creators have admitted the Amulet of Mighty Fists was balanced based on 2 natural weapons with x1.5 for it being Neck slot instead of Arms or Hands. The Necklace is, IIRC, 2,400 GP if you only get it affecting one weapon, and it can be further enchanted with Flaming and similar later on.

Faleldir
2009-06-05, 08:00 PM
What would happen if you had a Necklace Of Natural Attacks and added the Morphing enhancement? Since a Monk apparently uses every part of his body simultaneously for unarmed strikes, would he turn into an intelligent weapon? Would he keep his class features?

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-05, 08:05 PM
What would happen if you had a Necklace Of Natural Attacks and added the Morphing enhancement? Since a Monk apparently uses every part of his body simultaneously for unarmed strikes, would he turn into an intelligent weapon? Would he keep his class features?I prefer using Transmuting, personally. Hit someone and become Silver, or adamantite.

Actually, that might be another way to break the economy. Turn an Ogre Monk or something Adamantite, chisel off some, heal him, repeat. Then sell a bunch and paykill him off.

Edit:Sizing. Just...Sizing.

shadzar
2009-06-05, 08:18 PM
Rolls are 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 17.

Edit: Ok, I guess they don't have to be kamas. Just two +1 weapons, non-magical.

:smallconfused: Quarterstaff and sai.

All can count towards unarmed strike and work with flurry or blows.

Yeah the amulet of might fists would be a good addition.

Let me check my last 3.5 character to see what I had.


Githzerai so was level 8, but this is what he had....

Monk's Belt (13000gp)
Gauntlet's of Ogre Power(4000gp)
Bracers of Armor (9000gp)
Boots of Striding/Springing (5500gp)
Amulet of Mighty Fists (6000gp)
Ring of Prot +1 (2000gp)

Not sure why you cannot specifically buy things, but there must be a reason for it.

This Githzerai used psionics as if they were spells and was focused on recon.

Anything that boosts your unarmed attacks if something to look into if you want to go that route.

derfenrirwolv
2009-06-05, 08:33 PM
Rolls are 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 17.

Str 17
Dex 15
Con 14-->16
Int 13
Wis 17
Chr 12--->10

Forget what the PHB says. You need strength to hit and do damage.

You're a dwarf monk. At first level your saves are F +7 R +6 W +7 You're a wizard killing machine. Take that as your strength and embrace it.

1st Stunning fist (monk) improved grapple (level 1 char) (NOT for use on monsters or fighters. Use only on casters)
2nd Combat reflexes (monk)
3rd Weapon focus: unarmed strike
4th
5th
6th Improved natural attack, Improved trip (monk)
7th
8th
9th Ability focus (stunning fist)
10th

Zaq
2009-06-05, 08:33 PM
So... you don't get to choose your race, you don't get to choose your class, you don't get to choose your items, and you're not allowed to multiclass?

:confused:

What exactly DO you get to do? You can choose your feats, I suppose (all two of 'em), and you can arrange your stats... is that right? That's pretty much what you have available, right? Hmm. That's... really harsh, and frankly I'd see it as a red flag, but working with what you're given... I'd say, pick one tactic and run with it. Tripping kind of sucks on a monk (comparatively speaking), but it can be done. If you're going to be facing primarily humanoids, disarming with a quarterstaff isn't a terrible option, but it falls flat when you face, oh, anything other than a melee humanoid.

Ability Focus is core (it's in the Monster Manual), so you can use that to buff your Stunning Fist a little bit, though there aren't any other feats that improve stunning fist in core-only.

If your GM lets you TWF and Flurry at the same time, that can sort of work, though without any bonus damage it'll be lackluster.

Has your GM told you WHY he's being so amazingly controlling and restrictive? The GM is well within his rights to disallow a character, but to dictate what character a player must play seems really domineering and, as I said earlier, kind of a red flag. I doubt you'll be allowed to make many decisions in this game... I hope I'm wrong.

See if you qualify for Improved Natural Attack, at least.

Demons_eye
2009-06-05, 08:38 PM
I dont know were it is but there is a monk variant some place that lets you switch bonus feats for fighter feats.

Edit:Martial Monk DR 310

theonesin
2009-06-05, 08:47 PM
The reason for the limitations is because the DM said the game will only last a few sessions, and thinks we'll get too attached to our characters if we have free reign over them. Plus, we're getting new players who haven't played DnD before, so he wants everyone using things readily available (as in d20srd.org).

He has said that, after this campaign is over (and a similarly-long 4.0 game), when we start a longer campaign, we can make our characters however we want.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-05, 08:54 PM
Personal opinion is that it's bull.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-06-05, 11:43 PM
Try and talk him into Amulet of Mighty Fists (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#amuletofMightyFists) in lieu of the pair of kamas. This grants ALL unarmed attacks a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage, which is far more useful than a pair of d6 weapons which were obsolete at level 1.

theonesin
2009-06-07, 02:48 PM
Ok, it's a no to any of those Bracers or Amulets. Apparently the Monk's Belt alone is all I get, as the other players aren't being given something as expensive.

Edit: My DM has decided to give my monk a couple of tweaks that he read about. He's giving me full base attack bonus progression, and reducing the "time" it takes to do Flurry of Blows to Standard at 6th level, and Move at 12th. He also said that I could take the feat Hammer Fist if I wanted to (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6230682&postcount=24).

I don't know this helps with any potential builds, but so far the party is made up of two Rogues. We currently lack any casters, but we have at least one more player joining us, so we might have one then (we got two Rogues because of the same random character selection thing).

derfenrirwolv
2009-06-07, 04:41 PM
and i'd say pump the dex to 18 before the wisdom.

Why? Wisdom gives a monk AC and powers his stunning fist. Dex just gives him ac and a few skills. Stunning fist > skill bonuses.

1st Stunning fist (monk) improved grapple (level 1 char) (NOT for use on monsters or fighters. Use only on casters)
2nd Combat reflexes (monk)
3rd hammerfist
4th
5th
6th Improved natural attack, Improved trip (monk)
7th
8th
9th Ability focus (stunning fist)
10th

Weapon focus removed. With full BAB it won't be as needed.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-07, 07:49 PM
Edit: My DM has decided to give my monk a couple of tweaks that he read about. He's giving me full base attack bonus progression, and reducing the "time" it takes to do Flurry of Blows to Standard at 6th level, and Move at 12th. He also said that I could take the feat Hammer Fist if I wanted to (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6230682&postcount=24).


Grab Decisive Blow and Power Attack away, Jim.

RebelRogue
2009-06-07, 09:10 PM
Edit: My DM has decided to give my monk a couple of tweaks that he read about. He's giving me full base attack bonus progression, and reducing the "time" it takes to do Flurry of Blows to Standard at 6th level, and Move at 12th.
So that's 10 attacks pr. round at level 12! :smalleek:

theonesin
2009-06-07, 09:36 PM
Where's Decisive Blow?

Berserk Monk
2009-06-07, 09:39 PM
Vow of Poverty! Vow of Poverty! Vow of Poverty! (All I'm saying)

Flickerdart
2009-06-07, 09:48 PM
So that's 10 attacks pr. round at level 12! :smalleek:
Dip Psychic Warrior for Hustle, that's 15 attacks now.

ericgrau
2009-06-07, 10:01 PM
Ok, it's a no to any of those Bracers or Amulets. Apparently the Monk's Belt alone is all I get, as the other players aren't being given something as expensive.

Edit: My DM has decided to give my monk a couple of tweaks that he read about. He's giving me full base attack bonus progression, and reducing the "time" it takes to do Flurry of Blows to Standard at 6th level, and Move at 12th. He also said that I could take the feat Hammer Fist if I wanted to (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6230682&postcount=24).

I don't know this helps with any potential builds, but so far the party is made up of two Rogues. We currently lack any casters, but we have at least one more player joining us, so we might have one then (we got two Rogues because of the same random character selection thing).

Well if you do that with my build the potential gets downright silly. Make 3 trip attempts every round and have a good chance of dealing damage with each successful trip. Flurry grapple attempts as well, perhaps even mixing trips with grapple attempts. Grappled opponents are denied their dex bonus to AC. Remind the two rogues to thank you. As long the rogues sticks to melee not range there's no chance of accidentally hitting you. During the grapple you can make a grapple check to deal full monk unarmed damage, with a full BAB no less, putting you wel ahead of any other class in a grapple. Or you can flurry at a -4 penalty, and you can't use a second weapon, but unless your target has low AC this is probably worse. Meanwhile your target is at a -4 to hit you whether tripped or grappled, besides other disadvantages. A nice thing when you have monk AC. If the newcomer is an arcane caster, ask him nicely for a mage armor each day.

Decoy Lockbox
2009-06-07, 10:34 PM
Your DM is having you play a monk? What did you ever do to him?

theonesin
2009-06-08, 12:59 AM
I didn't "do" anything.

I forgot to mention it again after my previous thread, but all the players in this game were told the pick two classes and one race. Those choices went into a random selection and that's how our characters were picked out. My original character was a Dwarven Paladin, but when I disliked how the dungeon the DM plans would make my mount useless, he rerolled my class and I ended up with Monk.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-08, 01:35 AM
Where's Decisive Blow?

PHB2 ACF, replaces Flurry of Blows. As a full round action, make one attack at double damage.

theonesin
2009-06-08, 02:40 PM
I won't be able to take it then since it wouldn't be from the core rulebooks (Hammer Fist was an exception to that limitation we were given).

Paul H
2009-06-08, 04:04 PM
Hi

What about a Spiked Chain? All that tripping.

Also. you said potions. What about taking a Quarterstaff, with Oils of Shillelagh? Expensive, I know, but flurry doing 2D6+Str at 1st lvl?

Cheers
Paul H

theonesin
2009-06-08, 04:14 PM
We're not given the option to go out an buy stuff. The DM is just providing us with generic potions. Healing ones, I assume.

penbed400
2009-06-08, 04:55 PM
So... you don't get to choose your race, you don't get to choose your class, you don't get to choose your items, and you're not allowed to multiclass?

:confused:

What exactly DO you get to do? You can choose your feats, I suppose (all two of 'em), and you can arrange your stats... is that right? That's pretty much what you have available, right? Hmm. That's... really harsh, and frankly I'd see it as a red flag

Not necessarily true. I know a DM who's played this way for 20 years. Just handing the characters to the players and having them run them like that. All the players including myself have been happy with it. It makes it easier for the DM to know the restraints and limits on his campaign as well as giving the players a better time roleplaying from what I've observed. It's easy to make a character and play that background but people seem to make very similar characters every single time. Not the case for all players but for most players I've played with. This way they get to play an entirely different character and develop them into their own. Very fun really.

theonesin
2009-06-10, 02:02 PM
Small update, but this is what our current party consists of now:

Dwarven Monk (me)
Half-elf Fighter
Elf Rogue
Half-orc Cleric

Master_Rahl22
2009-06-11, 08:51 AM
Vow of Poverty! Vow of Poverty! Vow of Poverty! (All I'm saying)

It's a trap! It's a trap! It's a trap! That Monk's Belt your DM has so graciously decided to let you have goes away if you take the VoP. As does any other item ever, meaning your Monk has very little chance of ever being valuable to your party. If you go up against a Wizard, which should normally be your ideal matchup, he can cast Fly and you lose because you don't have anything that can make you fly.


I agree with several of the other builds on here. Concentrate on Tripping since your DM has given you full BAB. Once you have Improved Trip and Combat Reflexes, you can tumble past meatshields and trip/grapple casters whenever they try to nuke you/your party, meaning you shut them down.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-06-11, 11:27 AM
in all seriousness, I think you should be okay with it now that he has fixed Flurry.

At 6th, you get your flury blow with a standard action, which makes it basically Snap Kick. I don't know what he means by allowing it as a move action at 12, since it simply allows you to make one or two extra with a full attack. Since you cannot make any attacks in a move action, there is no way to flurry with it.

Starbuck_II
2009-06-11, 12:46 PM
The reason for the limitations is because the DM said the game will only last a few sessions, and thinks we'll get too attached to our characters if we have free reign over them. Plus, we're getting new players who haven't played DnD before, so he wants everyone using things readily available (as in d20srd.org).

He has said that, after this campaign is over (and a similarly-long 4.0 game), when we start a longer campaign, we can make our characters however we want.

Do you have Magic of Incarnum:
There awesome soulmelds for your guy if you do.

Take Shape soulmeld if you can't spare a level in the classes (choose Mauling Guantlets). Combined with open least Chakra feat lets you get: Mauling Guantlets (hands).

Minimum +2 unarmed damage (more if you had essentia).

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-06-11, 12:52 PM
Do you have Magic of Incarnum:
There awesome soulmelds for your guy if you do.

Take Shape soulmeld if you can't spare a level in the classes (choose Mauling Guantlets). Combined with open least Chakra feat lets you get: Mauling Guantlets (hands).

Minimum +2 unarmed damage (more if you had essentia).

No, he doesn't have MoI. He's got CORE. That is to say SRD, PhB, DMG, and MM I.

That is IT.

Starbuck_II
2009-06-11, 01:41 PM
Doh, missed that sentence.

Core Monks don't have much going for them. Expensive amulet of Fists, feat aren't great, etc.

paddyfool
2009-06-11, 02:36 PM
One idea (although the DM might not allow it - it's in the SRD but not core (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm)): Knock-Down works well with any trip build, as they can trip for free after any hit that does more than 10 damage (not unlikely, with a good Str bonus etc.), and might be worth it at level 6, particularly given the number of hits you could rattle off with a standard flurry at not-bad damage:


Knock-Down [General]
Prerequisites

Base attack bonus +2, Improved Trip, Str 15.
Benefit

Whenever you deal 10 or more points of damage to your opponent in melee, you make a trip attack as a free action against the same target.

theonesin
2009-06-12, 05:06 PM
One idea (although the DM might not allow it - it's in the SRD but not core (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm)): Knock-Down works well with any trip build, as they can trip for free after any hit that does more than 10 damage (not unlikely, with a good Str bonus etc.), and might be worth it at level 6, particularly given the number of hits you could rattle off with a standard flurry at not-bad damage:


Knock-Down [General]
Prerequisites

Base attack bonus +2, Improved Trip, Str 15.
Benefit

Whenever you deal 10 or more points of damage to your opponent in melee, you make a trip attack as a free action against the same target.

If I'm reading right, don't you have to be a deity to take that?

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-12, 06:02 PM
No.

Do you want a longer explanation?

theonesin
2009-06-12, 07:16 PM
Yes actually. Because I wouldn't want my DM to think the same thing if I try to run this by him.

tyckspoon
2009-06-12, 07:42 PM
Being in the Divine section of the SRD doesn't mean it's a deity-only feat, in the same way that being printed in the Epic Handbook doesn't make Improved Flyby Attack an [Epic] feat, and Greater Manyshot isn't a [Psionic] feat despite being in the Psionics section. The feats are just located with the material where they were printed; the actual requirements to take them are determined by the identifier tags (eg, for [Epic] and [Psionic] you have to be an Epic or Psionic character, respectively) and by the Prerequisite line, just like any other feat.

Eldariel
2009-06-12, 08:00 PM
The feats are categorized by the sources they first appeared in. The feats in the "Divine"-section are feats that appeared in the "Deities & Demigods"-book. Like all books, that book too contains a bunch of General feats any character can take.

Feats limited to deities are specifically marked as such with the [Divine]-tag. The "General feats" are just feats that happened to be released in that book and their release there makes them OGL and thus legal for public release.

theonesin
2009-06-12, 08:20 PM
Ohh, ok.

I was thinking that I'd go with the build suggestion by ericgrau, though also taking the Hammer Fist feat (I convinced my DM to rework how the feat a little). How well would that Knock-Down feat work into that build? Would I stop making normal trip attempts and just attack normally to activate Knock-Down?

Thespianus
2009-06-13, 01:54 AM
Ohh, ok.

I was thinking that I'd go with the build suggestion by ericgrau, though also taking the Hammer Fist feat (I convinced my DM to rework how the feat a little). How well would that Knock-Down feat work into that build? Would I stop making normal trip attempts and just attack normally to activate Knock-Down?

A side question: Would the Hammer Fist feat enable the Monk to use Power Attach "two handed", that is, get a +2 bonus to damage for each point of attack bonus sacrificed? If not, would it be a reasonable house rule?

I've been toying with an unarmed Monk build, focusing on tripping, including Defensive Throw, to trip opponents then power-attack the snot out of them with Hammer Fist when they're on the ground. But without a 2:1 Power Attack bonus, it's hard to reach any fun levels of damage with a monk, unless you go the kind of cheezy "My Fists now count as Garganutan"-route.