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View Full Version : Red Hand of Doom Adventure Advice (Spoilers?)



Karsh
2009-06-05, 03:57 PM
Hey all. I've been running the Red Hand of Doom adventure module with my players for some time now, and we're getting ready to launch into the final chapter after the PCs successfully defended Brindol.

There's only one teeny-tiny problem. The PCs have failed to kill any of the true dragons, only barely offing Varanthian at the Ghostlord's lair. That means that when they reach the entrance to the Fane of Tiamat, a party of 4 PCs is going to be going up against 4 dragons.

The party is sort of really bad at fighting dragons. Abithriax's breath weapon instantly killed the wizard during the Battle of Brindol.

The party makeup is all level 10:
Undead templated Goliath Monk
Elven Wizard
Dwarven Cleric
Whisper Gnome Rogue

From past experience, I know that if they have no assistance, even only Tyrgarun and Abithriax would be a TPK. Ozzyrandion and Regiarix will just add insult to injury.

So far, the ideas that I've had to help are to:

A) Send a leveled up Soranna or Jorr with them to the Fane, if for no other reason than to do some damage before dying horribly.

B) Have the party encounter a group of Blackspawn Raiders in the Wyrmsmokes with an unconscious human that turns out to be a Gold Dragon (I'm thinking Young Adult, though maybe just Juvenile) who will help them fight the dragons. If nothing else, I'd be able to have the Gold dragon take Abithriax out of the fight for a while. Ozzyrandion and Regiarix are both such lightweights at this stage in the game that I imagine they'll be more of nuisances than anything else, assuming that the two CR 10+ dragons don't beat down on the party simultaneously.

Any other ideas/suggestions?

Hzurr
2009-06-05, 04:09 PM
You can have a couple of the dragons attack them as they make their way to the fane. Maybe Abithriax and Regiarix attack them on the road, and they can face the other two at the fane entrance.

Also, does the party know that they'll be encountering these dragons? Like most things in 3.5E, dragons aren't too difficult if you know that you'll be facing one.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-05, 04:09 PM
Maybe give the players another shot at the Dragons individually. A Dragon attacking the PCs on their way or something should give them a chance to reduce the enemy forces without you breaking character.

Karsh
2009-06-05, 04:15 PM
Hm, that's a thought. I can put Regiarix with the Blackspawn Raiders and give them an opportunity to kill off the third most dangerous dragon while gaining an ally in a very dangerous gold dragon...

crimson77
2009-06-05, 04:23 PM
Any other ideas/suggestions?

I am unfamiliar with the adventure. However, you could have the party fight the dragons individually and not as a single encounter.

The PCs could fight two dragons and then find a way for them to rest. Maybe the dragons pride gets the way and they allow the party to rest not wanting to be seen as weak to attack the party when it is wounded and almost dead.

I would suggest not bringing in a NPC ringer. This may leave the party feeling impotent. However, one way to do successfully bring in an NPC ringer would be to have two of the dragons attack your gold dragon and the three of them fly off in battle leaving the rest of the dragons to fight the party.

skeeter_dan
2009-06-05, 05:37 PM
I'm currently running RHoD myself. Tyrgarun is dangerous enough by himself, so I can understand your concerns. Fortunately the druid had the presence of mind to cast mass energy resistance so they didn't die horribly. They also managed to escape the encounter without a single character dying; unfortunately, they also didn't do any damage to the dragon and they've had to face him several times in the Fane itself.

The easiest way to deal with the dragons is having one or two of them patrolling the mountains further out from the Fane. If your PCs are concerned about approaching the Fane without alerting anyone to their presence, this will add the tension of killing the dragon before it escapes and alerts the Red Hand troops within the Fane.

Having a dragon or two face them enroute should also alert them that they will likely face more dragons, hopefully giving them the opportunity to properly prepare themselves for the encounter.

That said, don't pull any punches. The dragons are meant to be a frightening challenge that really pushes the PCs to their limits. If the're not good at fighting dragons, they'll need to improve quickly if they want to survive. Personally, I would avoid giving them a powerful NPC (either Soranna/Jorr or a dragon) as it plays down the contribution of the party. Let's face it, your PCs have a wizard and a cleric amongst them. If they can't properly prepare for a dragon, something is wrong.

AslanCross
2009-06-05, 05:59 PM
Encourage them to find an alternative way into the Fane. They could try to rush past the dragons (good luck, but it's better than nothing) into the foyer, then teleport back to Brindol if the dragons come knocking.

I'm running RHOD as well, and I've been dreading what would happen to my PCs if they failed to kill the dragons. We're still early on, but so far they've taken down Ozzyrandion.

I believe the other campaign journals that have been posted here talked about Regiarix not really being a fanatic zealot like Tyrgarun or Abithriax (the adventure mentions this too), so you could have him prefer to stay behind in Rhest (especially if the party did manage to kill Saarvith).

Splitting up the encounters is also a good idea. You could have them encounter the weaker dragons patrolling the Wyrmsmokes, while Tyrgarun alone guards the Fane.

I understand that dragonslaying is pretty difficult; on their part, readied actions are a good way of dealing with them if they see the dragons are acting in a predictable way.

Soranna won't be much help. She's a vanilla build fighter; what the party needs against dragons is a way to keep them down. She'll be pretty much a speedbump for the formidable Tyrgarun.

Immerstal the Red might be a lot more helpful; at least that increases the party's options somewhat. Assuming he's still alive, of course.

Remind the cleric that he has access to his entire spell list. What are his domains?

kjones
2009-06-05, 06:10 PM
According to the encounter calculator, all four dragons at once is only an EL 13 encounter... I'm quite surprised, since this means that by normal CR guidelines this should be a challenging but not overwhelming encounter. I'd stick with your gut on this one - and I'd certainly hope that your party can't take on all four dragons at once, or the rest of the Fane is going to be a cakewalk.

I'd recommend against giving them NPC allies - anyone strong enough to be a threat against those dragons will end up making the rest of the Fane too early in my opinion. If you want a nasty way to split up the encounter, send the dragons at them in waves - maybe only Regiarax and Ozyrrandion are there to start, but once they take them down, Abithraix has shown up.

Karsh
2009-06-05, 06:12 PM
Most of the group is really more of a casual gaming group than anything, so their characters are almost entirely core only. The dwarf is a Cleric of Moradin with Protection and Law domains.

An idea which I just had (and need help fleshing out) is to incorporate what has, up until now, been an entirely passive character. The party has, as an addition to the adventure by me, been collecting skeletal fingers made out of gemstones and adding them to a greatsword that the party picked up when the monk was zombified. They recently learned from the Ghostlord that this is the Sword of Kas, and unbeknownst to them, by adding the gemstone fingers to the blade, they're powering it up by stealing energy from Tiamat.

Should the fight turn south, I could introduce the intelligence of the blade and force the party to choose between survival and using the sword. Nobody's actually proficient with greatswords, ironically, and the party is almost universally good (no evil), so I think it could be an interesting story element.

EDIT: Any NPCs, should I let them accompany them, would either die or refuse to follow them into the Fane. I am being swayed away from including the ally dragon though.

AslanCross
2009-06-05, 07:29 PM
Yeah, I'd think the NPCs shouldn't follow them into the Fane. Keep in mind that while the Horde's leadership has been destroyed by this point, there might still be opportunistic raiders who might still be a danger to the smaller towns in Elsir Vale (an excuse for the NPCs to return).

crimson77
2009-06-08, 12:42 PM
I actually picked up a used copy of this adventure after hearing you guys talk about it. It looks really cool. Have any of you played it pbp style?

kjones
2009-06-08, 01:00 PM
I actually picked up a used copy of this adventure after hearing you guys talk about it. It looks really cool. Have any of you played it pbp style?

I haven't, but I have no PbP experience. It's fairly combat-heavy for a PbP, I think, but the biggest problem with running it PbP is that it is long. I expect for my party to finish it in no more than 20 sessions, but to do a PbP of the whole thing would probably take a long time.

If you can make it through 1 round of combat a day, which is a good rate for PbP, the whole thing could easily take 6 months, and that's with no interruptions whatsoever. Realistically, you're talking a year.

I don't mean to discourage you - just recognize what you'd be getting yourself into and what you'd be asking of your players.

Karsh: I like your idea with the Sword of Kas, but if they're not proficient with it, it might not be enough to turn the tide of battle, and then they'd just feel cheated. It doesn't affect the survivability of the wielder at all, and it would be a simple matter for Tyrgarun to just blast him.

Prock
2009-06-08, 01:07 PM
Theres alot of things you can do here.
Get about 5 to 10 random town guards to go with them.
They will atleast make enough distraction for the PCs to run away and come back prepared.

Get all the NPCs that have helped you, including Jorr and Sorana, maybe even other NPCs that you have met on the way (If trhis were to happen with my group I would also include the druid, the wizard and the cleric from Drellin. As my party has made good friends with them, I would just bump them up to level 10)

Or if all else fails do it by waves, first the easiest one and so on. And let them excape if they need to.

kjones
2009-06-08, 01:30 PM
Theres alot of things you can do here.
Get about 5 to 10 random town guards to go with them.
They will atleast make enough distraction for the PCs to run away and come back prepared.

Get all the NPCs that have helped you, including Jorr and Sorana, maybe even other NPCs that you have met on the way (If trhis were to happen with my group I would also include the druid, the wizard and the cleric from Drellin. As my party has made good friends with them, I would just bump them up to level 10)

Or if all else fails do it by waves, first the easiest one and so on. And let them excape if they need to.

Again, I recommend against sending NPCs along with them. Regardless of the fact that they will probably die, since most friendly NPCs in RHoD are not very well built... if they survive, their presence will unbalance the rest of the Fane. And how would you justify including them for the dragon battle, and then sending them home afterwards? It's a long walk back to Brindol.

(Druid from Drellin? Who is that, exactly? And be careful bumping up the levels of NPCs - one important aspect of RHoD is that the party is the only group in the Vale strong enough to handle these threats.)

crimson77
2009-06-08, 05:02 PM
I haven't, but I have no PbP experience. It's fairly combat-heavy for a PbP, I think, but the biggest problem with running it PbP is that it is long. I expect for my party to finish it in no more than 20 sessions, but to do a PbP of the whole thing would probably take a long time.

If you can make it through 1 round of combat a day, which is a good rate for PbP, the whole thing could easily take 6 months, and that's with no interruptions whatsoever. Realistically, you're talking a year.

I don't mean to discourage you - just recognize what you'd be getting yourself into and what you'd be asking of your players.

I was thinking that it would take between 1 and 2 years to complete the 5 chapters presented in the manual. I like that wizards has all of the maps/pictures on their website. It would be cool to illustrate the game with those pictures.

I have run a few smaller wizards adventures (e.g. free modules posted on their website) with good success. My usual campaigns last around one year, so i think this is doable.

But you are right, the biggest thing is to have committed players. Additionally, I would try to condense some of the encounters and make some modifications to stream line some of the plot.

Coidzor
2009-06-08, 06:55 PM
Hm, that's a thought. I can put Regiarix with the Blackspawn Raiders and give them an opportunity to kill off the third most dangerous dragon while gaining an ally in a very dangerous gold dragon...

Our DM did something like this instead of random encounters on our way back to Brindol after dealing with the Ghost Lord. (it was a tough choice considering that usually adventurers just steal everything that isn't nailed down, and sometimes they take chunks of the dungeon itself with 'em and how good and lawful people are supposed to return stolen property to the rightful owner[s])

Encountered a wave of hobgoblins that were distracting us so a second wave of the blackspawn raider party could attack us from behind followed by regariax halfway through that wave popping out of a lake near an abandoned farmhouse that we were checking out to see if we could sleep there.

Prock
2009-06-09, 03:23 PM
Again, I recommend against sending NPCs along with them. Regardless of the fact that they will probably die, since most friendly NPCs in RHoD are not very well built... if they survive, their presence will unbalance the rest of the Fane. And how would you justify including them for the dragon battle, and then sending them home afterwards? It's a long walk back to Brindol.

(Druid from Drellin? Who is that, exactly? And be careful bumping up the levels of NPCs - one important aspect of RHoD is that the party is the only group in the Vale strong enough to handle these threats.)

The Half elf druid from the old ones.
He is a really minor character, but has become somewhat important in my campaing thanks to the PC's