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View Full Version : Tome of Battle's Disciplines as Tactical Feats



Ziegander
2009-06-05, 07:02 PM
Iron Heart I
Prerequisites: Base Attack +1, Base Fort Save +2
Benefit: You gain the use of the following three tactical options.

Steel Wind - As a standard action, you can make up to two melee attack rolls, against two targets, both of which must be adjacent to each other. After using this option you cannot use it again for 2 rounds.

Steely Strike - As a standard action, you can make a single melee attack roll, with a +4 bonus to the attack roll, however you take a -4 penalty to AC for 1 round. After using this option you cannot use it again for 2 rounds.

Punishing Stance - As a swift action, you shift your stance in order to put all of your physical might into your attacks. While in this stance your melee attacks deal +1d6 damage while in this stance. You may spend only 5 total rounds each encounter in a stance, and after entering this stance you remain in it, until you leave it as a free action, or enter a new stance using a swift action.

Iron Heart II
Prerequisite: Base Attack +3, Base Fort +3
Benefit: You gain the use of the following two tactical options.

Disarming Strike - As a standard action, make a melee attack. If your attack hits, you gain a free disarm attempt against the struck foe. If the attempt fails the foe does not get any chance to disarm you in return. After using this option you cannot use it again for 2 rounds.

Wall of Blades - As an immediate action, in response to an enemy targeting you with a melee attack, you may make a melee attack roll. For that enemy's attack only, treat your AC as the result of your melee attack roll. After using this option you cannot use it again for 2 rounds.

Iron Heart III
Prerequisite: Base Attack +5, Base Fort +4
Benefit: You gain the use of the following two tactical options.

Exorcism of Steel - As a standard action, make a melee attack. If you attack hits, the struck opponent takes a penalty to damage rolls equal to your Strength modifier for 1 round. After using this option you cannot use it again for 2 rounds.

Absolute Steel Stance - As a swift action, you shift your stance to allow for maximum fluidity of movement. While in this stance you gain a +10 bonus to your base movement speed, and gain +2 to AC during any round you move 20ft or more. You may spend only 5 total rounds each encounter in a stance, and after entering this stance you remain in it, until you leave it as a free action, or enter a new stance using a swift action.

Diamond Mind I
Prerequisite: Base Attack +1, Concentration 4 ranks
Benefit: You gain the use of the following three tactical options.

Sapphire Nightmare Blade - As a standard action, make a melee attack. If the opponent is flat-footed, make a concentration check against their AC in addition to your attack roll. If the concentration check beats the opponent's AC your attack deals +1d6 damage. After using this option you cannot use it again for 2 rounds.

Moment of Perfect Mind - As an immediate action, in response to being required to make a Will save, make a concentration check. Use the result of your check in place of your saving throw. After using this option you cannot use it again for 2 rounds.

Stance of Clarity - As a swift action, you tighten your stance, concentrating on a single foe over all others. While in this stance you choose a foe at the beginning of each of your turns. Against that foe you gain a +2 bonus to AC for 1 round, but take a -2 penalty to AC against all others. You may spend only 5 total rounds each encounter in a stance, and after entering this stance you remain in it, until you leave it as a free action, or enter a new stance using a swift action.

Diamond Mind II
Prerequisite: Base Attack +3, Concentration 6 ranks
Benefit: You gain the use of the following two tactical options.

Action Before Thought - As an immediate action, in response to being required to make a Reflex save, make a concentration check. Use the result of your check in place of your saving throw. After using this option you cannot use it again for 2 rounds.

Emerald Razor - As a standard action, make a single melee attack, however resolve the attack as a touch attack. After using this option you cannot use it again for 2 rounds.

Diamond Mind III
Prerequisite: Base Attack +5, Concentration 8 ranks
Benefit: You gain the use of the following two tactical options.

Insightful Strike - As a standard action, make a single melee attack. Instead of rolling your weapon's normal damage and adding your strength modifier, make a Concentration check. Use the result of that check as your damage roll. After using this option you cannot use it again for 2 rounds.

Pearl of Black Doubt - As a swift action, you loosen your stance, but sharpen your mind, watching the ebb and flow of the battlefield. While in this stance, each time a foe misses you with a melee attack you gain a +2 bonus to AC which lasts for 1 round. This bonus can stack up to five times. You may spend only 5 total rounds each encounter in a stance, and after entering this stance you remain in it, until you leave it as a free action, or enter a new stance using a swift action.


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Anyway, there's the basic gist of the idea. These feats are presented as an alternate Tome of Battle system, and shouldn't be used in conjunction with the Tome of Battle classes themselves.

arguskos
2009-06-05, 07:25 PM
Perhaps each of the higher level feats should have each of the lower level ones as prerequsites?

Beyond that, I really like these. I don't like the maneuver mechanic, but some of the moves are pretty damn excellent. I really like these tactical feats. Will you be making the rest of 'em?

lilhowie624
2009-06-05, 08:15 PM
i like this idea a lot. i hope you continue and fulfill the rest of the trees. if you do ill defiantly use these in my next game.

Ziegander
2009-06-05, 10:17 PM
Perhaps each of the higher level feats should have each of the lower level ones as prerequsites?

Beyond that, I really like these. I don't like the maneuver mechanic, but some of the moves are pretty damn excellent. I really like these tactical feats. Will you be making the rest of 'em?

Yeah, so many people are unsatisfied with the Tome of Battle classes and mechanics that I decided that Tactical feats granting "maneuvers" would be an incredibly simple and effective substitute.

Since you guys seem to like what's going on here, I will be finishing the rest of these, as it's really easy to do, and I will have the feats from IV - IX require lower level feats.

arguskos
2009-06-05, 10:19 PM
Yeah, so many people are unsatisfied with the Tome of Battle classes and mechanics that I decided that Tactical feats granting "maneuvers" would be an incredibly simple and effective substitute.

Since you guys seem to like what's going on here, I will be finishing the rest of these, as it's really easy to do, and I will have the feats from IV - IX require lower level feats.
You know, I'd like to make mention that perhaps they shouldn't cost NINE feats to finish a discipline. That's... a scarily large feat investment for something that isn't worth nine feats. Make it 5 each (by spreading about the higher level maneuvers) and that'd be much more reasonable I'd bet. :smallwink:

In any case, it's all good, I love the idea.

Knaight
2009-06-05, 11:25 PM
Nine actually seems reasonable to me, full mastery of a discipline should take up most of a fighters feats. As it is, a human fighter gets 19 feats, and would be able to fully take two of these, with a recovery mechanic way better than any martial adept has. And have one feat besides. Not to mention only getting a discipline up to level 5-6 is still a lot of power.

If I ever run an e6 game, I'm stealing the early ones.

arguskos
2009-06-05, 11:29 PM
Nine actually seems reasonable to me, full mastery of a discipline should take up most of a fighters feats. As it is, a human fighter gets 19 feats, and would be able to fully take two of these, with a recovery mechanic way better than any martial adept has. And have one feat besides. Not to mention only getting a discipline up to level 5-6 is still a lot of power.

If I ever run an e6 game, I'm stealing the early ones.
Fair enough, though not ONLY fighters will want these feats. What about Rogues, Monks, Rangers, Wizards (creative ones), and anyone else who doesn't get 10+ bonus feats? Not only fighters want to be cool. :smallwink:

I still think that cutting the tree from 9 down to maybe 6 is a thought worth considering.

wadledo
2009-06-06, 03:19 PM
Make em fighter bonus feats, too.

Reaper_Monkey
2009-06-06, 03:55 PM
Make the later feats require only half the number of previous ones (so feat 6 and 7 in the chain require you to have three previous feats). This way you can skip some and pick and choose the ones you want, and allow non feat heavy classes to benefit from them too.

Although make the capping one require maybe 75% of the total amount? To ensure it stays special and isn't available to just anyone who half-heartedly uses the feats.

Other than that, I love this idea, so much more accessible and straight forward. Gives the power and options of ToB without needed to be distilled into one of three classes, tis perfect! :smallbiggrin:


Make em fighter bonus feats, too.

And yes, make them fighter feats too. As otherwise your insulting your main target audience.

Faleldir
2009-06-06, 05:44 PM
Two-weapon Rangers will love Tiger Claw I.

Siosilvar
2009-06-06, 06:53 PM
Two-weapon Rangers will love Tiger Claw I.

Two-weapon Rangers also love Dual Strike.

Faleldir
2009-06-06, 07:15 PM
You mean the same Dual Strike that uses one attack roll at -4, applies precision-based damage once, and can't be taken until level 6?
You also get Hunter's Sense, (great with Track) Blood In The Water (for the Drizzt clones out there) and Sudden Leap (20-foot step without really trying) in the same feat. That's not even close to Dual Strike. It's like comparing Mithral Tornado to Whirlwind Attack.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-06-07, 06:05 PM
Minor nitpick--every published [Tactical] feat grants three maneuvers. If you made the feats past Discipline I give three maneuvers instead of two, you'd (A) satisfy players' OCD instincts (:smallwink:) and (B) be able to cover more maneuvers with fewer feats.

Otherwise, the idea is great; I've been meaning to do something similar myself when a player expressed interest in ToB but didn't like the maneuver learning and recovery systems.

Danzig
2010-07-07, 10:25 PM
So, if these feats shouldn't be used with the Tome of Battle classes, can they still be used in a game that has Tome of Battle classes in it?

What I'm trying to ask is, I understand these are for people without martial adept levels, and I understand that they are inappropriate for martial adepts, but is it possible to use these feats if you still use martial adepts in the game, as long as they alone are banned from using them?

Siosilvar
2010-07-07, 10:44 PM
So, if these feats shouldn't be used with the Tome of Battle classes, can they still be used in a game that has Tome of Battle classes in it?

What I'm trying to ask is, I understand these are for people without martial adept levels, and I understand that they are inappropriate for martial adepts, but is it possible to use these feats if you still use martial adepts in the game, as long as they alone are banned from using them?

Ignoring the fact that the last post in this thread was over one year ago... probably not. They're really intended as a complete replacement for Tome of Battle classes. Plus, it makes ToB classes seem less... special, when you can grab three of their tricks at the same time instead of one (with Martial Study).

Grytorm
2010-07-21, 11:40 PM
Minor nitpick--every published [Tactical] feat grants three maneuvers.

Not every tactical feat. Battlecaster Offense from Complete Mage has only two.

Andion Isurand
2010-07-23, 03:54 PM
Make em fighter bonus feats, too.

in comes the Heroics spell .... Yarrr!