Jephton- Archmage Prestige Class

[JeptCloak]

I've been looking over the archmage prestige class, and based off my limited understanding of the rules it looks pretty awesome if you combine it with Sorceror. It doesn't seem to have much in the way of limitations, and if the game stopped at Lvl 20, it seems this would be the best class to have.

Obviously it's another reason it sucks to have not seen him, or any of his wacky adventures (perhaps for a future story).

But that said, I'm a little confused why an Epic Sorceror Archmage wouldn't have Time Stop as a spell... it seems like the perfect and most important spell you'd need. It let's you win the fight pretty much instantly if you've learnt the right spells... I mean, it could overcome Xykon's fire resistance for example, but letting you spam delayed blast sonic, or use chained sonic instead of lightning. The ability to fiddle with area effects, increase spell damage, alter elements and make touch attacks from 30 feet (not to mention the counter spelling), it unbelievable... and as a sorceror you've got the spell usage to make it all count.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

I've been looking over the archmage prestige class, and based off my limited understanding of the rules it looks pretty awesome if you combine it with Sorceror. It doesn't seem to have much in the way of limitations, and if the game stopped at Lvl 20, it seems this would be the best class to have.

Except for the limited spell selection and a smaller number of feats than the wizard. Sorcerer 15/ Archmage 5 vs Wizard 20 (or Wizard 15 / Archmage 5) is just the old sorcerer vs wizard debate which started at level 1.



But that said, I'm a little confused why an Epic Sorceror Archmage wouldn't have Time Stop as a spell... it seems like the perfect and most important spell you'd need. It let's you win the fight pretty much instantly if you've learnt the right spells...

Limited spell selection again. You only get to know three 9th level spells as a 20th level sorcerer and there are a lot of good choices for 9th level. I wouldn't say it's must have but yeah it's up there.

[JeptCloak]

Yeh, but by then you've already got some feats, so you're only missing, what, 1 feat? In exchange you're getting 5 high arcana, some of which seem to be better than sorceror feats... what would a sorceror lose from this? It seems comprable to Wizard, probably less good overall, but a very flexible, useful class.

[quick_comment]

Limited spell selection again. You only get to know three 9th level spells as a 20th level sorcerer and there are a lot of good choices for 9th level. I wouldn't say it's must have but yeah it's up there.

Id say timestop is pretty much must have. I suppose you could ditch it if you have celerity, but that spell doesnt exist in OOTSverse, and ought to be banned with fire anyway.

[Duaneyo1]

Sorcerer / Archmage is a solid combination and the best choice if you are looking at the SRD. Non core there a better combinations. Alternatively a sorcerer can know the shadow / shades line of spells and can duplicate all conjuration and evocation spells. Archmage takes a little planning as you need to know a 5 level + spell from five magic schools. You eventually get more freedom in spell selection as you won’t need as many attack spells. Ie. Cone of cold can be cone of acid, fire etc.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

Yeh, but by then you've already got some feats, so you're only missing, what, 1 feat? In exchange you're getting 5 high arcana, some of which seem to be better than sorceror feats... what would a sorceror lose from this? It seems comprable to Wizard, probably less good overall, but a very flexible, useful class.
Oh abosolutely. It's a great combo. And it's fun to play. But I find the sorcerer actually takes more thinking to play well because of the limited spell choices and feats.

Take a Sor 15/ Archmage 5. He has 4 fewer feats than a Wiz 15 / Archmage 5. Of the 3 feats required for Archmage, 2 are OK but 1 is a wasted feat. When a wizard enters at level 14 he has 5 free feats and when the sorcerer enters at level 16 he only has 3 free feats. Take Mastery of Elements. It's great when you get. Instantly any evocation spell can cause any damage type. But before then, you still probably choose a variety of evocations with different energies, area of effects, etc. to be able to be a flexible and useful sorcerer.


Id say timestop is pretty much must have. I suppose you could ditch it if you have celerity, but that spell doesnt exist in OOTSverse, and ought to be banned with fire anyway.
As your first 9th level spell Sorcerer? I would say no. Maybe as your second. But maybe as your second you want Shapechange. The sorcerer faces the same dilemna at almost every level.

[JeptCloak]

Oh abosolutely. It's a great combo. And it's fun to play. But I find the sorcerer actually takes more thinking to play well because of the limited spell choices and feats.

Take a Sor 15/ Archmage 5. He has 4 fewer feats than a Wiz 15 / Archmage 5. Of the 3 feats required for Archmage, 2 are OK but 1 is a wasted feat. When a wizard enters at level 14 he has 5 free feats and when the sorcerer enters at level 16 he only has 3 free feats. Take Mastery of Elements. It's great when you get. Instantly any evocation spell can cause any damage type. But before then, you still probably choose a variety of evocations with different energies, area of effects, etc. to be able to be a flexible and useful sorcerer.

As usual I'm mainly interested in end product, not problems on the way... what happens when you get to lvl 20 though (15 +5)? Do you just start with lvl 21 for whatever, or do you need to add 5 more classes of mage/Sorc? That'd suck, though it would make Jephton'd power even more impressive.

[quick_comment]

As your first 9th level spell Sorcerer? I would say no. Maybe as your second. But maybe as your second you want Shapechange. The sorcerer faces the same dilemna at almost every level.

For a sorc, I would take time stop, shapechange and probably some blasty spell.

[Raenir Salazar]

ild forgo the blasty spell as improved empowering a lvl 8 spell probably better.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

ild forgo the blasty spell as improved empowering a lvl 8 spell probably better.
Definitely. As the first 9th level spell, Dominate Monster, Wail of the Banshee or Energy Drain are better IMHO. Or for Sor/Archmage with Arcane Reach, Imprisonment.


As usual I'm mainly interested in end product, not problems on the way... what happens when you get to lvl 20 though (15 +5)? Do you just start with lvl 21 for whatever, or do you need to add 5 more classes of mage/Sorc? That'd suck, though it would make Jephton'd power even more impressive.
You can continue with sorcerer though that does have some drawbacks. An epic level sorcerer gets bonus feats at levels 23, 26, 29, etc. in addition to the regular feat at levels at 21, 24, 27, etc. Plus if you have a familiar, it gets the Familiar Spell feat at sorcerer level 21, 31, 41, etc. As a Sor 15/ Archmage 5, your entering level 21 as a sorcerer 16 and you have to wait another 4 levels to get any bonus feats. So you may want another prestige class rather than pure sorcerer.

[JeptCloak]

I don't understand how timestop isn't a must for someone with no combat abilities... I mean, sure they'll have buffs on anyway, but you need that to handle the unexpected, and it lets you spam them to death... it seems to me that it is a must, then you just take some ranged touch ones... I guess maybe shapechange... isn't there some way to increase you spell capacity from 3?

[HamsterOfTheGod]

I don't understand how timestop isn't a must for someone with no combat abilities... I mean, sure they'll have buffs on anyway, but you need that to handle the unexpected, and it lets you spam them to death...it seems to me that it is a must,

Time Stop is sort of nerfed in that it's best served to buff you up, sort of like what V did against the ABD. I mean that's a major advantage. But offensive options are more limited. You can spam Delayed Blast Fireballs (not your only option BTW), energy substituted for whatever energy type you want, but it's not alway the best tactic at that high level. The high level opponents you would meet have many options in dealing with that like contingency spells, spell resistance, improved evasion, really high hit point totals, complete energy immunity or combinations of such or even just dying.



then you just take some ranged touch ones... I guess maybe shapechange... isn't there some way to increase you spell capacity from 3?
Not for 9th level spells and not until after level 21. The epic Spell Knowledge feats lets the sorcerer learn two more spells of up to 9th level. Before level 21, lowly non-epic sorcerers can only take Extra Spell which lets you learn 1 spell of up to 1 level below the highest level you can cast when you take the feat.

Plus of course there is Epic Spellcasting. The only limit to the epic spells you know (not prepare) is wealth.