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ChrisDemilich
2009-06-06, 12:53 AM
So, the DM we play with (online gaming through messenger) has decided to base a gaming scenario on the battle for Azure city.

Personally, I think he wants to test out his new mass combat roller(he built it as a college project, and it determines combat outcomes for mass numbers of soldiers in a combat. I've seen things like it before, but he wanted to make one from scratch)

Anyway, I'm taking the role of a wizard. I am trying to optimize him to make him as useful as possible. We are starting at level 14, and I've already decided to specialize in transmutation, disallowing enchantment and evocation.

I took spell focus in both trans, and conjuration. And I have 2 levels of archmage, with arcane reach and +1 caster level chosen.

I need to figure out how a level 14 caster can optimize to face an army. We are outnumbered by 10 to 1. We have 2000 soldiers, most of whom are level 1. They have 20 000 soldiers, mostly monstrous humanoids of various types.

We only have access to Core books. The DM did not want to over-complicate it(More then it already is).

My party is made of up one Barb/Fighter/Ranger(He likes to diversify), a Ranger/rogue focused on ranged. A cleric, and an undecided person who is not sure what he wants to do.

What spell selections would work best? Should I focus on battlefield control, or worry about making my allies a bigger threat? Maybe a few mass, enlarge persons? Should I get extend spell to make my spell effects last longer?

While we are at it, what spells could V have selected that would have increased his chances of turning the tide? We know he is an evoker with necromancy and conjuration restricted(Which is dumb, since those are the two best schools).

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-06, 12:56 AM
Cloudkill. Cloudkill. Cloudkill.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-06, 01:01 AM
Snag allies. The Planar Binding line is perfect for this. Make an incredibly bad deal(You will obey both the word and intent of all commands I give you from now until the end of time in exchange for a shiny CP), boost your check and ruin theirs, and now you've got a CR10 minion. Do this a few times, and you're not stuck with useless soldiers. I'd go battlefield control(Cloudkill is perfect, as is Reverse Gravity, Control Weather and the Symbol line. For buffs, you want things that affect a radius rather than a specific number.

sebsmith
2009-06-06, 01:03 AM
Assuming the enemies all have less than three HD, cloudkill + overland flight + wind wall should be about it.

quick_comment
2009-06-06, 01:04 AM
Blasting actually becomes pretty good again. I would keep evocation for a war-wizard. Widened Fireballs can kill good numbers of enemy troops.

Battlefield control is still important though. Wall of Force, Wall of Fire, etc, all are good for sealing breaches in your walls.

You can scry and die enemy commanders. This is probably the best use of a wizard in battle.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-06, 01:10 AM
What season, and what's the exact battlefield size? Control Weather is looking better and better, especially if one of you can UMD a scroll of Control Winds.

BobVosh
2009-06-06, 01:12 AM
Blasting actually becomes pretty good again. I would keep evocation for a war-wizard. Widened Fireballs can kill good numbers of enemy troops.

Battlefield control is still important though. Wall of Force, Wall of Fire, etc, all are good for sealing breaches in your walls.

You can scry and die enemy commanders. This is probably the best use of a wizard in battle.

This. I would mainly keep with walls that aren't vulnerable to dispel/AMF. Wall of iron/ice/force. Although wall of fire is good damage.

Scry + Die is also great. I would use a copy of...anticipate teleport I believe it is called. Or even greater if you want.

Scribe a bunch of scrolls/make wands/buy both. War zones are always the best way to actually run a wizard out of spells.

Make sure you always have a quick out button. I do not recommend D Door (one of the few times you don't have the proper distance to run.)

Then cloudkill will work wonders. Espically if he does it with the swarms of CR 1 Hobgoblins.

Eldariel
2009-06-06, 01:14 AM
Control Weather is looking better and better, especially if one of you can UMD a scroll of Control Winds.

He's level 14, he can Limited Wish it himself.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-06, 01:16 AM
He's level 14, he can Limited Wish it himself.But he probably needs that 7th level slot. We're talking Warzone, after all.

ChrisDemilich
2009-06-06, 01:56 AM
Actually, control weather could be really good. Especially since I could replace the Archmage +1 with mastery of shaping, and leave it clear in the area my allies will be.

The battlefield is a keep with 20 foot tall, 5 foot thick walls, in the middle of a large open plain, with one road leading through it. There are two steel gates at either side. We do not know where the enemy will attack from but they will likely come down the road.

We do not know what they will have, but the DM hinted that their army is likely to include several groups of stronger monsters, and maybe some spellcasting monsters. I'd guess ogres since my DM has used them before. Often.

Edit: Would the mastery of shaping ability apply to Stone wall? If so, I could build a section of wall, and leave a single gap, as a choke point. Make it look like a real section of the wall, so they think there is an entrance.

Another edit: And evocation would not help as much as you think. Even a widened fireball would only affect a 80 foot diameter. Which is 172 enemies, assuming they are all grouped within the 40 foot radius area. Even 50 uses of it could only kill 8600 at the very best conditions. Which are not likely to occur. And my character could not cast near to that many spells. Cloudkill is definitely going on my list. And I can use greater shadow conjuration for wall of force if I need to.

Radar
2009-06-06, 04:03 AM
Convince the undecided person to play a druid and abuse Spike Stones - perfect way to hold any breach and lasts for hours. You would also have Control Weather without UMD (and Control Wind as well, which at 14 level can be of use).

As for the wizard: you can actually cast Control Weather as well as the druid (just noticed on SRD). Also write Symbols of Weakness (or better Symbols of Insanity) on the outside of the walls. If possible, make those as auto-repeating traps.

As for summons, i would recommend creatures with solid DR, so that they will stomp low-level mooks effortlessly even considering critical hits.

Entrench the area with Move Earth spell before the battle (for example elevate the whole keep a bit :smallbiggrin: or make the terrain difficult for siege engines to move through).

If you have flight always at hand, then Mislead is a good "get out of trouble free" card.

If you feel lucky, then cast Contagion on the night before the battle on someone in the enemy army - bonus points for targeting their leader.

Illusory Wall (imitating ground or floor section) combined with a spike pit of poking death or something like that. Since it's a no-cost permanent spell, hide all murderholes and any traps this way before the battle.

If you are paranoid, then Mage's Private Sanctum can be cast on the planning room.

ChrisDemilich
2009-06-06, 05:41 AM
I was thinking about buying scrolls of permanency with my starting cash, and setting up some symbols of fear at the entrance gates.

I am also getting as many of the lasting effect area spells I can, such as acid fog, black tentacles, cloudkill. And I am going to extend several enlarge person, mass. Because increased size and reach for 28 minutes on 14 targets is nice. I target my party, and the small group of allied NPC's who are not level 1 chumps.

Also, repulsion, just in case I need to keep myself guarded.

Of course, I could always use greater invisibility and overland flight to fly over the army, use arcane eye to find their leader, fly to him, then use baleful polymorph or disintigrate to finish him. Then use disguise self combined with polymorph to make myself look like the leader, and make terrible orders, or call for a retreat.

BobVosh
2009-06-06, 05:46 AM
I was thinking about buying scrolls of permanency with my starting cash, and setting up some symbols of fear at the entrance gates.

I am also getting as many of the lasting effect area spells I can, such as acid fog, black tentacles, cloudkill. And I am going to extend several enlarge person, mass. Because increased size and reach for 28 minutes on 14 targets is nice. I target my party, and the small group of allied NPC's who are not level 1 chumps.

Also, repulsion, just in case I need to keep myself guarded.

Of course, I could always use greater invisibility and overland flight to fly over the army, use arcane eye to find their leader, fly to him, then use baleful polymorph or disintigrate to finish him. Then use disguise self combined with polymorph to make myself look like the leader, and make terrible orders, or call for a retreat.

Be better to get a CHA character overthere in order to actually be able to bluff it.

Zaq
2009-06-06, 05:50 AM
In addition to what's already been suggested, any ability that lets you reshape terrain will be gold. I can't decide if it's better to cast such spells beforehand, to fortify defenses, or to cast them during the battle, almost as traps, but either way, causing the ground to suddenly raise or lower 30 feet will, to paraphrase the opening of Erfworld, make an already bad day a good deal worse for the enemy.

Also, any Wall of Whatever spells will be very helpful. The nastier, the better, but some of the simpler ones have their uses as well.

Hmmm... how big is the area to be fortified, and how much time do you have before the battle, if any? Some major-grade illusions, if they last long enough, will be very useful indeed. Cover up your real forces, make a bunch of fake ones, mask some key terrain, all that good stuff. If the army isn't actually here yet, you might even use Mirage Arcana to, oh, "move the fortress" somewhere else. Somewhere laden with some Symbol spells.

Planar Binding would be a decent choice to bring in some outside help. Big scary things, of course, will be helpful, as well as anything that can affect a whole lot of foes at once. It's a pity that you don't have the Spell Compendium, or I'd suggest Dragon Ally, since a breath weapon and a fear aura go a long way... can you get anything with a fear aura with Planar Binding? I forget.

Remember to stay very far away from the action. Project Image is only rounds per level, but it's a decent way to put some distance between yourself and your targets if you want to cast a spell with a short range.

If you can get a scroll of Antipathy, that would be good to create a safe zone for your headquarters. Unfortunately, you're just a hair too low level to cast it normally, but if you can get a scroll, go for it.

Guards and Wards is basically made for this scenario, as well.

mostlyharmful
2009-06-06, 05:52 AM
Control Weather. One casting, no more enemy. that is all.

Talic
2009-06-06, 05:59 AM
Evard's black tentacles.

Widen Spell.

Summon Monster X. (Many creatures in the summon monster line get useful at-will SLA's. Wall of Ice, for example.)

Anything that affects mass numbers with little effort. Heck, Fire elemental Suicide Runs after you launch Tar.

Treacherous terrain + disintegrate.
Symbol of Weakness. (3d6 str damage to 95% of their troops? Yes please. Combine with fatigue/exhaust ability to take out even high str troops. Exhaust + Symbol of weakness will, on average, paralyze a 16 Str character... now apply it en-masse)

Note: Symbol of Weakness is probably one of the best possible debuffs out there for this. It's a spell that, on average, lowers the enemy army's accuracy by 25%, the enemy's damage by 30-50%, and combos with other effects (waves of fatigue) to leave troops alive, and able to question.

Even better, such tactics are MORE likely to drop non-str characters (generals, archers, casters).

ChrisDemilich
2009-06-06, 06:29 AM
Okay. So Control weather, with a hole in the effect where the keep is located. The fort covers an area of about 1300 foot radius. With 5 foot thick, 20 foot tall walls. The main keep is 80 feet in radius, with a variety of other buildings. We have exactly one day to prepare. So, I could conceivably prepare somewhat in advance.

So for spell selection so far, widened versions of Black tentacles, acid fog, and solid fog. A couple of wall of stone spells, and also a rock to mud spell, so I can collapse the wall if needed(And hinder the progress of their troops in the process).

Extended enlarge person mass and haste to boost my party, as well as greater invisibility, overland flight, and repulsion to keep myself safe.

Summon monster spells are just not good enough. Sure a huge elemental would do serious damage. But since it would only last 14 rounds, I'd get more use out of a cloudkill for 14 minutes.

And maybe one polymorph, just in case I need it. Because a CR 14 gold dragon casting 14th level wizard spells could be useful. XP

Shpadoinkle
2009-06-06, 06:40 AM
A few scrolls of Fog Cloud could lock out archery units. Cast it a bit in front of them, so they have to move in front of it and become more vulnerable, or to the side so they're in a less ideal position. Sleet Storm and Stinking Cloud can also be used to disable groups.

Evard's Black Tentacles can be used to guard a chokepoint if you can create one. The various Wall of X spells can help with that.

Chokepoints can make a big difference. It's probably beyond your means to create one for the entire enemy army, unless you spend most or all of your gold on it, but casting a few Wall of Stone spells can help shore up the outside of your keep.

Actually, a few Wall of Stone spells can make a big difference. If the enemy is using seige weapons, they'll likely aim for the weak corners and towers. Casting a few Walls of Stone in front of them means they have to either bypass them via catapaults or trebuchets, which isn't that easy, or they have to go through the conjured walls first, which will slow them quite a bit.

A couple scrolls of Reverse Gravity, provided you can get close enough to use them, they can destroy seige engines. Stack the cubes on top of each other, and assuming they're CL 14, that will fling them 70' into the air. Granted, 7d6 falling damage isn't much, but they're pretty likely to end up laying upside-down, or at least on thier side. Getting them upright again, if they even bother, will cost them time. Several minutes at the very least.

raptor1056
2009-06-06, 06:49 AM
Okay. So Control weather, with a hole in the effect where the keep is located. The fort covers an area of about 1300 foot radius. With 5 foot thick, 20 foot tall walls. The main keep is 80 feet in radius, with a variety of other buildings. We have exactly one day to prepare. So, I could conceivably prepare somewhat in advance.

So for spell selection so far, widened versions of Black tentacles, acid fog, and solid fog. A couple of wall of stone spells, and also a rock to mud spell, so I can collapse the wall if needed(And hinder the progress of their troops in the process).

Extended enlarge person mass and haste to boost my party, as well as greater invisibility, overland flight, and repulsion to keep myself safe.

Summon monster spells are just not good enough. Sure a huge elemental would do serious damage. But since it would only last 14 rounds, I'd get more use out of a cloudkill for 14 minutes.

And maybe one polymorph, just in case I need it. Because a CR 14 gold dragon casting 14th level wizard spells could be useful. XP

Original polymorph only work up to 15 HD. Polymorph any Object would be what you want.Ad, unfortunately, you have to wait for this until level 15. Less fortunately, it's broken {Scrubbed}

mostlyharmful
2009-06-06, 07:31 AM
if you're packing concentration based stuff like walls of fire be sure to have a few dozen sonorous hums or that feat that lets you familiar do the concentrating for you to free your mage up to keep whaling the smack.

Paul H
2009-06-06, 08:03 AM
Hi

Why do they need to come down the road? Enemy spellcasters can teleport troops either behind you or right amongst you. Spells than block out teleportation are good.

Cheers
Paul H

mikethepoor
2009-06-06, 08:41 AM
How do you have 2 levels of archmage at 14th character level?

Tohron
2009-06-06, 08:58 AM
A useful question here is whether you'll be facing any high level opponents, or just a bunch of hobgoblins. If you need to take down Xykon and Redcloak, then as the group's wizard, your build will need to take that into account.

If it's just hobgoblins though, I'd go with a Focused Specialist Conjurer barring Enchantment, Evocation, and Necromancy. Conjuration can cover the blasting either directly or by summoning/binding creatures to do it for you, and you wouldn't really need necromancy's single-target debuffs.

Talic
2009-06-06, 09:00 AM
Summon monster spells are just not good enough. Sure a huge elemental would do serious damage. But since it would only last 14 rounds, I'd get more use out of a cloudkill for 14 minutes. Yes, a Elemental would.

What about a Bone Devil? Is that summon Monster spell worth 14 castings of Wall of Ice? Or Major Image? Cause that's what you get.

How about 1d4+1 of these (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/achaierai.htm)? Insanity in the ranks as they go running through? Flying over, if you want to buff em a little.

Or 1-3 Bralani (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/bralani.htm)? Charm person or wind wall every round for 14 rounds.... Or 2 lightning bolts and a cure spell. Or Blur on all your party.

Or take summon monster 5, and pull out this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/shadowMastiff.htm). Panic 90% of an army.

Or summon monster 6, for 2-5 Yeth hounds (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/yethHound.htm). Fly out over half the army, panicking most of it in short order.

It's not the brute force of a summon monster, but how you use it. Thus lies the strength of the conjuror.

ChrisDemilich
2009-06-06, 09:07 AM
How do you have 2 levels of archmage at 14th character level?

Archmage requires: Knowledge arcana 15, Spellcraft 15, Skill focus spellcraft, spell focus in two schools, and the ability to cast 7th level spells. All of these can be acquired at level 13. So, level 13 and 14, I choose archmage as my PrC.

ChrisDemilich
2009-06-06, 09:11 AM
A useful question here is whether you'll be facing any high level opponents, or just a bunch of hobgoblins. If you need to take down Xykon and Redcloak, then as the group's wizard, your build will need to take that into account.

If it's just hobgoblins though, I'd go with a Focused Specialist Conjurer barring Enchantment, Evocation, and Necromancy. Conjuration can cover the blasting either directly or by summoning/binding creatures to do it for you, and you wouldn't really need necromancy's single-target debuffs.

It'll be mostly an army of hobgoblins and goblins, along with other larger monstrous humanoids. There are also the leaders of the army, which the DM did not specify, but my guess is he'll use a lich and a goblin cleric for the Azure City feel. I just hope that he does not make it as strong as Xykon.

Edit: My DM sent me OUR army list. We have LVL 1850 Archers, armed with longbows. We have LVL 1 1540 warriors armed with longswords and shields. We have 345 lvl 1 warriors armed with spears. We have 240 LVL 1 warriors equipped with crossbows. We have 55 LVL 1 clerics. 25 LVL 1 wizards. 36 Level 5 warriors armed with +1 long swords. 22 Level 1 fighters armed with bastard swords. 5 Level 10 Fighters with varius equipment(Commanders). 3 Level 7 clerics. and 1 level 6 wizard.

The enemy will outnumber us by about ten to 1. So about 30 000.

woodenbandman
2009-06-06, 09:15 AM
War Weaver.

If your wizard is dropping cloudkill, he's a target. If his 5 friends are enlarged, hasted, Polymorphed into Cryohydras, or any number of other things, he can then continue to go wreak havoc. Once you drop the buffs the only hope the enemy has is to drop your allies fast, with focus fire, or dispel the buffs, and if you keep supporting your allies, chances are you're fine.

tyckspoon
2009-06-06, 09:23 AM
Archmage requires: Knowledge arcana 15, Spellcraft 15, Skill focus spellcraft, spell focus in two schools, and the ability to cast 7th level spells. All of these can be acquired at level 13. So, level 13 and 14, I choose archmage as my PrC.

You get 7th-level spells *at* 13. You can't qualify for a PrC with the features you get for taking it, so 14 is the first level you can take Archmage. Not that it particularly matters in your situation, as none of the High Arcana are really applicable (although there's always uses for Mastery of Shaping.)

Set
2009-06-06, 09:26 AM
After Control Weather turns the ground into mud, a Transmute Mud to Rock is going to pin the legs of every creature within the radius in solid stone.

Using Move Earth before hand, to ensure that the mud is a foot deep, will make the affected troops effectively useless, up to their knees in rock. Their allies may have to go around them, or lose valuable time breaking them free.

mostlyharmful
2009-06-06, 09:31 AM
After Control Weather turns the ground into mud, a Transmute Mud to Rock is going to pin the legs of every creature within the radius in solid stone.

That or you could program tornados to flatten the whole army... which is more effective, forcing each soldier to wait until they roll a 20 on a Str check to get free or killing them all with one spell?

ChrisDemilich
2009-06-06, 09:41 AM
You get 7th-level spells *at* 13. You can't qualify for a PrC with the features you get for taking it, so 14 is the first level you can take Archmage. Not that it particularly matters in your situation, as none of the High Arcana are really applicable (although there's always uses for Mastery of Shaping.)

Ahh. My bad. I'll have to adjust that.

Talic
2009-06-06, 09:57 AM
That or you could program tornados to flatten the whole army... which is more effective, forcing each soldier to wait until they roll a 20 on a Str check to get free or killing them all with one spell?

Depends on whether you want survivors.

Vagnarok
2009-06-06, 10:42 AM
As a DM, I don't think that I'd allow an avg str lvl 1 npc to break out of being encased in stone up to their knees, even on a nat 20. I think that the dc for breaking out of the stone would be ridiculous enough that even the bonuses applied for the nat 20 wouldn't allow for a 10 str character to break out. Maybe if they're all ogres and have very high str, but it should still be more difficult than an one in 20 chance.

Chronos
2009-06-06, 02:43 PM
Be careful with Control Weather, since it doesn't give you precision control. Any deadly weather, like tornadoes or lightning, might end up turning on you. It should be fine for turning the battlefield into a sea of mud, but that might not be worth a 7th-level slot.

Talic, why bother with Shadow Mastiffs at all? Yeth Hounds have the same Bay ability, fly, and are cheaper.

And I know you banned Evocation, but even a Shadow Evocation Wall of Fire will kill almost any hobgoblin that passes through it, and seriously injure most that are even close to it. Cast it just after some (but not all) of the enemy army gets into range of your archers: They can't retreat, and if they advance, they're on their own. Either fire-and-forget and let it last 14 rounds, or concentrate on it if you're starting to run short on spell slots.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-06, 02:46 PM
My party is made of up one Barb/Fighter/Ranger(He likes to diversify), a Ranger/rogue focused on ranged. A cleric, and an undecided person who is not sure what he wants to do.
Bard with Lyre of Building

Behold what can be done with the Lyre! (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1162208)

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-06, 02:54 PM
Bard with Lyre of Building

Behold what can be done with the Lyre! (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1162208)Heck, just a Bard with Perform:Sing and a magic mike. Add +however much to every soldier on your side.

Random NPC
2009-06-06, 03:06 PM
War Weaver.

If your wizard is dropping cloudkill, he's a target. If his 5 friends are enlarged, hasted, Polymorphed into Cryohydras, or any number of other things, he can then continue to go wreak havoc. Once you drop the buffs the only hope the enemy has is to drop your allies fast, with focus fire, or dispel the buffs, and if you keep supporting your allies, chances are you're fine.

+1

This can be quite viable

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-06, 03:14 PM
So instead of making yourself a target... you make your friends targets! :smallsmile:

Jack_Simth
2009-06-06, 03:31 PM
Very little of your opposition can see invisibility. If you spend all your time manipulating terrain, buffing your allies, and summoning, you can stay invisible and airborne. Pity Complete Mage isn't available - Reserve feats are king for such times as these (Ring of Invisibility + Elemental Summoning and Minor Shapeshift = WIN ... eventually).

Air Elementals are crazy-good for this - Whirlwind form, go through, suck up a ton of opponents, drop them 100 feet or more in the air, watch them fall and go splat. Rinse and repeat. Caster level 14 is 14 rounds of this for one spell Summoning is very viable, if you're invisible and away from the direct action.

Buffing is also a very good choice - you want to focus on things that affect a large number of soldiers.

Combat Control is very useful - if they're limited to coming through a particular door a few at a time, and you can mass archers at them, that's very good.

What is your goal? To kill the incoming army, or to protect the city? The two are VERY different.

Planar Binding is good - lots of demons, devils, and angels (depending on your alignment) get DR, Regeneration, and/or area-effect attacks. Your basic Astral Deva has DR 10/Evil, Fly 100 (Good) and Holy Smite at-will. Your basic Trumpet Archon has DR 10/Evil, Fly 90 (good), and has a fair number of area-effect spells on his cleric list. A Chain Devil has DR 5, Regeneration, and a lot of attacks.

If you've got some time to prepare, you can use Enervation and unleash the Wight Apocolypse.

Random NPC
2009-06-06, 03:47 PM
So instead of making yourself a target... you make your friends targets! :smallsmile:

Prepare a scroll for Teleporting to a safe haven when things get ugly

CN Wizards FTW

Zaq
2009-06-06, 04:01 PM
I repeat, Mirage Arcana is basically made for exactly this. You can...

-Make the fortress look like it's somewhere else.

-Cover up your traps and fortifications to make them look totally safe.

-Add in what looks to be dangerous or impassable terrain. (I'm not touchin' that lava pit to find out if it's real. You touchin' it?)

-Make it look like you have reinforcements coming in. Big ones.

-Put some mountains between you and the army. Be sure to add in a Wall of Stone or two.

-Make your forces, especially your archers, completely invisible.

-Add in three or four extra fortresses.

Naturally, you should mix in some real threats with the phantom ones. Sure, only half the lava pits are real, but if you can't tell which ones are which, are you going to want to take the chances?

My favorite option is definitely to move the fortress. Make the real fortress invisible, put a fake one up as far away as the spell will reach, and put a bunch of really nasty traps (I repeat, Symbol spells are great) where the fake one is.

d13
2009-06-06, 04:03 PM
Battlefield Control... Lots'a'em...

And a couple of Mass Buffs so the HP wall doesn't feel like one xD.

I don't remember the schools you banned (blame multiple tabs), but if you didn't ban evocation, and the enemies are nothing more than mook-like beings, a couple of AoE spells could be useful (No NPC Warrior can stand a 14d6 Fireball, for instance xD)

Viv
2009-06-06, 04:14 PM
I am deliberately not including things that summon or create troopers.


Battlefield Awareness:
Alarm
Clairvoyance/Clairaudience
Prying Eyes
Scrying, Greater
True Seeing

Communication:
Dancing Lights (basic signalling)
Message (complex signalling)
Rary's Telepathic Bond
Whispering Wind

Mobility:
Expeditious Retreat (really, you want to be where you need to be)
Fly
Overland Flight
Teleport, Teleport Greater, Teleport Object

Protection:
Protection from Arrows
Shield
Globe of Invulnerability (Lesser or Greater)
Stone Skin

Enemy Wizard Counters:
Dispel Magic, any and all forms

Handling BBEGs:
Nightmare

Miscellaneous Illusions:
Major/Minor Image
Programmed Image

Infiltration:
Veil

Disrupting Enemy Tactics:
Suggestion, Mass
Confusion

Localized Area Control, Limit Mobility:
Grease
Web
Forcecage
Solid Fog
Evard's Black Tentacles
Transmute Mud to Rock/Rock to Mud
Wall of Force
Wall of Stone
Localized Area Control, Disabling/Damaging:
Acid Fog
Cloud Kill
Glitterdust
Symbol of (Basically any Symbol)
Solid Fog
Localized Area Control, Minimize Visibility:
Fog Cloud
Solid Fog
Sleet Storm

Terrain Control:
Hallucinatory Terrain
Mirage Arcana

Wide Area Control:
Move Earth
Reverse Gravity
Control Weather

Miscellaneous Tactical:
Illusory Wall (provide a sally port?)
Water Breathing (use on your guys to hide underwater?)

Viv
2009-06-06, 04:29 PM
Now, a few initial comments on tactics:

Everyone talks about how flying is really important. On a battlefield, this is totally the wrong attitude. Flying will only draw unwanted attention.

You have to stay alive. Part of that is not drawing attention to yourself, part of that is survivability when you do. Don't do anything flashy (like flying), keep defensive spells up.

Communication is critical. One of the really nice things about being a wizard is that two of the really useful communication spells (dancing lights and message) are level zero.

Do not overload on localized effects. It is important to have them because they will provide a boost at critical junctures, but because of their limited impact, you only want to be using these when it's critical. These are often best used in areas where you have a choke-point, or enemy officers directing the battle, or some battle you just can't afford to lose.

Distractions are nice too -- Confusion, Suggestion, Phantom Battle provide these, but I would admonish you to remember the "localized effect" rule here.

I strongly second Zaq's endorsement of hallucinatory terrain and mirage arcana. Use it to encourage or discourage enemy troop movements in an area. The uses here are limitless.

purplearcanist
2009-06-06, 04:40 PM
1. Forbiddance. Its a cleric spell, but it can be used to make an impassible wall, or prevent the enemy from going in a certain area. If you can shuffle the mooks into it, get ready for fireworks. But beware of the material component.

2. Abuse divinations. Predict what the enemy tactics are, and counter them. Augury comes to mind.

3. Use illusions, like silent image. Best part about it is that there is NO SAVE unless the image is interacted with. Bluffs do serious damage in a war.

4. Get allies. Remember AC and DR, they are your friends. Make sure it is competent in killing, though.

5. Destroy the leaders. And protect yourselves from being destroyed.

6. Ambush, if possible.

ChrisDemilich
2009-06-06, 04:52 PM
Alright, so to recaps, so far we have:

Wizard 13/Archmage 1

Gray elf for the extra intelligence.

Stats are Str 5, Dex 18, Con 13, Int 27(boosted with headband of int +6), wis 12, Cha 10.

I gave him a wand of greater invisibility to use for himself.

The day before the attack, I'll use Move earth 5 times to set up trenches surrounding the keep, leaving just two points at which enemy soldiers can cross. It'll make an excellent choke point for out side to target. I'll also set up a control weather the night before and set it for hurricane force winds. I'll be putting the trench 100 feet from the wall, and I'll leave a hole in the control weather effect(With the archmage's mastery of shaping) out a further 20 feet from the trench.

I'll also use a pair of permanency scrolls to set permanent symbols of pain at the two choke points, so that anything trying to get by is subject to the symbol.

I will have cloudkill, extended and widened prepared. As well as acid fogs, solid fogs, webs, and black tentacles.

I am still not sure about what I should summon, if anything. A good summoned creature with lots of abilities that could assist us would be useful. It should be remembered though that the army will be massive, and cover a huge area. So my summon monster could just assail a small section.

J.Gellert
2009-06-06, 05:03 PM
Remember that no matter how good you are (actually, even more so if you are doing well), five minutes in combat against a half-competent enemy will result in you fighting your counterpart in the enemy army - another arch-mage, or squads of lower-level casters. You need to be prepared to deal with them or you will face a lot of Counterspells (at best) or a straight magical assault (at worst).

Second, in the chaos of battle, it may pay to get a Hat of Disguise and change yourself to look like an unimportant lowly peasant-warrior or squire. Add some stealthy casting (there's a skill trick for that in Complete Scoundrel, but even before that DMs would allow one check or another to cast without being noticed) and you will avoid drawing unwanted attention.

Viv
2009-06-06, 05:10 PM
Looking through the summons list, I see these gems:


Summon Monster VI:
Chaos Beast: On hit, DC15 Fort save, or suffer corporeal instability. DC15 Charisma check each round to throw off effect. Each round affected, suffer 1 wisdom drain, attack nearby enemies. If a target falls to 0 wisdom, they permanently become a chaos beast.
Xill: can go ethereal, move to where needed, then pop back as a move action.

Summon Monster V:
Achaierai: Expels a 10 radius foot cloud 3/day. 2d6 damage. DC15 Fort save or be affected by insanity (as spell) for three hours.
Shadow Mastiff: 300 foot spread DC13 Will or become panicked for 2d4 rounds.

Summon Monster IV:
Yeth Hound: 300 foot spread DC11 Will or become panicked for 2d4 rounds.

EDIT: Totally didn't see Talic's similar post above. :(

Viv
2009-06-06, 05:13 PM
I would recommend taking another look at Symbol of Weakness and Symbol of Fear.

I think I'd rather have people fleeing in terror from the choke point, or suffering 3d6 strength damage -- than -4 to whatever they do.

3d6 strength damage is pretty brutal when you consider a lot of people trying to pass through the choke points are going to be slightly-better-than-average-joes and are often going to be wearing non-trivial armor.

Zaq
2009-06-06, 05:39 PM
As for summoning help, using Summon Monster is not the best idea. You want something that will last more than 14 rounds. Planar Binding is where it's at. Like I mentioned earlier, I don't know offhand what creatures are valid targets for PB or GPB and have a fear aura (probably some devils, and I bet some angels have an aura of menace), but some form of frightful presence will go a very long way.

Move Earth is an excellent idea. You can make huge walls and huge ditches with it at the same time... perfect for a mundane fortification.

Also, you know how big of a difference you can make? So can a single enemy spellcaster, if there's a Xykon or a Redcloak on the other side. Make sure you have some way of dispelling things.

Viv
2009-06-06, 06:00 PM
Eh, it just depends on what you summon and how you summon it.

Chaos Beasts make chaos beasts that aren't necessarily subject to the duration of the spell.

You can use Summon Monster VI to summon 1d4+1 yeth hounds with each casting. 300 foot spread DC11 panic generating fear effect (charisma based, so you can eagle's splendor for tougher DC, if desired).

Cast SMVI twice, and we're talking a line of fear that's on average 900 feet long (assuming yeth hound spacing of 150 feet) and 300 feet deep.

With this spacing, each member of the army is going to have to make that save three times to avoid being panicked. At +0 Will save, that's 87.5% panicked. At +5 Will save, that's something like 65%.

Those that are panicked -- a large majority, mind you -- are going to drop what they're holding and flee at top speed for 2d4 rounds.

Worst case scenario, you follow that up with a charge. They're going to be at a huge disadvantage, not having their weapons.

Alternatively, you can run them into something unpleasant.

In either case, we're talking about a spell or two that can affect an entire army. That ain't bad.

GoC
2009-06-06, 06:08 PM
Blackfire would be perfect here... I suppose you'll have to settle for Contagion.
If at all possible make an infinite use item. An at-will fireball can turn the tide of battle.
Mass invisibility on their best troops is a very big help.
If these don't work you're probably screwed. 20,000 is a lot (CR of 29).

btw: Is moral realistic or are these humanoids heedless of their own safety? Because realisticly these poor chaps aren't going to try and charge the celestial lion just so their friends can get a chance to kill it.

You know what would be really fun? Cast Stoneskin, Protection from Arrows, Shield, Greater Mage Armor, Thunderlance, Transformation, something for natural armor and a few Heroics and charge into melee!
It's a shame your DM doesn't allow splatbooks...
Turning into one of these (level 7 spell) is loads of fun!
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/spellcomp_gallery/92194.jpg

msully4321
2009-06-06, 06:22 PM
A lot depends on how realistic your DM will be with regard to fear and morale. In a real battle, when an army breaks, it breaks. If half the army turns and starts running, the other half is going to start running also, and they aren't going to turn back around when the spell effect wears off.

This makes for a short battle, though...

TengYt
2009-06-06, 06:35 PM
Consider Scry-and-Die tactics to take out the enemy's commanders before the battle. No matter how strong the army, if you can make it a leaderless, tacticless rabble you'll have a much easier time. Plus, I'm sure a powerful party teleporting in and taking their commander's head would greatly reduce the morale of your enemy, which could result in desertions etc.

Shpadoinkle
2009-06-06, 07:03 PM
Consider Scry-or-Die tactics to take out the enemy's commanders before the battle. No matter how strong the army, if you can make it a leaderless, tacticless rabble you'll have a much easier time. Plus, I'm sure a powerful party teleporting in and taking their commander's head would greatly reduce the morale of your enemy, which could result in desertions etc.

Good point. Personally, I'd gun for the strategists and tacticians first. Even with an overwhelming superiority of numbers, bad tactics can and will break your army. Look up the battles of Guandu and Chibi for two examples. In both battles, one army severly outnumbered the other. Through a combination of stupidity on the part of the leaders of the larger army ("Don't bother with strategy, there's no way that many men could defeat us, just go kill them!") and superior tactics on the part of the smaller army, the smaller armies won both battles.

Ironically, Cao Cao's army won the battle of Guandu, yet at Chibi he lost badly and was nearly killed because he made the same mistake that Yuan Shao did at Guandu.

Demons_eye
2009-06-06, 10:09 PM
War Weaver.

If your wizard is dropping cloudkill, he's a target. If his 5 friends are enlarged, hasted, Polymorphed into Cryohydras, or any number of other things, he can then continue to go wreak havoc. Once you drop the buffs the only hope the enemy has is to drop your allies fast, with focus fire, or dispel the buffs, and if you keep supporting your allies, chances are you're fine.

+1 I have run and tryed this for big scale combat and it works wonders. But then again its not core so push the dm to let you use it.

ChrisDemilich
2009-06-07, 01:01 AM
Alright. So the day before, I set up a few move earth's. That night before bed, I set a control weather, to cause hurricane force winds surrounding the keep.
I will also permanency some symbols of fear (I read the spell and agree it is much better then symbol of pain), and set up some walls of stone to further block enemy advancement.

As for the day of the battle, I was thinking of something like this:

0- Message x 5.
1- Grease x 2, Mage Armor x 2, Shield x 2, Feather fall x1(You never know).
2- See invisibility x 2, Alter self x 1, Fox's cunning x 2, detect thoughts x 1, Invisibility x 1.
3- Dispel magic x 3, fly x 2, Extended web x 1, Stinking cloud x 1.
4- Extended Greater magic weapon x 2, Polymorph x 1, Extended Haste x 2, Black Tentacles x 1, Arcane eye x 1.
5- Extended greater invisibility x 3, Teleport x 1, Cloudkill x 1.
6- Extended cloudkill x 2, Guards and wards x 1(In case they get in the main gate and we need to fortify the inner keep), Disintegrate x 1, Repulsion x 1.
7- Widened extended stinking cloud x 1, Dispel magic, greater x 1, Extended Summon monster 6 x 2(28 rounds of 1d4+1 Yeth hounds using their bay ability).

The main bulk of the spells are designed to hold off massive numbers of enemies. I have a few spells to boost my party, and a few spells designed for dealing with the big bosses of the army.

Viv
2009-06-07, 02:06 AM
First, did you change your specialist school from transmutation to conjuration?

I would encourage to spend a slot or two for "Dancing Lights." Message spell has limited range (240ft for you) and allows fairly complicated messages to be sent on the fly, but don't underestimate the ability to throw up a flare whose movements you can control remotely.

You can arrange signals in advance that can be seen at much further distances with Dancing Lights. Remember, the range on Dancing Lights is how far the lights can go, not how far they can be seen.

I am not a big fan of web in this context. It's okay at second level, but I think extending it is a waste of a third level slot. I would expect that the opposing army will be able to bring fire to bear well before 240 minutes are up, much less the 480 minutes an extended web will last. Surely we can put something more useful in this slot, even if it's only just another cast of Dispel Magic, or maybe Whispering Wind. If you really want another cast of Web, I'd just figure out a different second level spell to promote to being extended.

You've spent 5 total slots on gas clouds. If the opposing forces have a cleric that can cast control winds, you are ruined. Consider diversifying this. That said, remember that Cloud Kill vapors sink to the local minimum elevation -- remember to use move earth to take advantage of this. (eg, set a local elevation minimum in your choke points so that you can throw a cloud kill in there if you need to).

Surely there's something better you can be doing than making two +3 magic weapons for 28 minutes. I would so much rather see Stone Skin, Contagion, Solid Fog, Hallucinatory Terrain, Mass Enlarge Person or even Rary's Mnemonic Enhancer in these slots.

I wouldn't mind seeing a Passwall or two thrown in at level 5 instead of Greater Invisibility. This would let you create a sally port on demand, which might provide the ability for a suprise attack, or a route of retreat for units trapped against the walls.

Also, I think that extending Summon Monster VI is a waste. A target can only be affected by the baying of each hound once per 24 hour period. They're not going to make much of a difference in hand-to-hand combat. 14 rounds should be enough for what you want to do.

I would probably recommend dropping an extended cloud kill in favor of Summon Monster VI. Then drop an Extended Summon Monster VI and replace it with Summon Monster VII (remember, VII can summon Yeth Hounds, or Shadow Mastiffs that also bay, but also gives you other options). You now have a spare 7th level slot you can fill in with something else -- maybe Phase Door (superior to Pass Wall because it's selective and invisible), Banishment (you know the other guy is considering summoning), Reverse Gravity, or Limited Wish (just in case, right?).

Viv
2009-06-07, 02:16 AM
Another comment on pass wall -- not only can you use it to create a sally port on demand, but the fact that it is dismissable turns it into a potentially nasty trap.

If you have troops come in through a pass wall with enemies hot in pursuit, those enemies are going to be tempted follow.

Let them. Once a significant but managable set have come through, dismiss.

You now have a heavily outnumbered group of enemies trapped against the inside of your walls. You know what to do with them.

Viv
2009-06-07, 02:19 AM
Also, for the Yeth Hounds, remember that you need to speak infernal so you can issue them orders.

Viv
2009-06-07, 02:48 AM
I would also consider asking if you can exchange some of those 5th level warriors and/or those 10th level fighters for paladins (even taking a slight level penalty in the case of the 5th level warriors).

Frankly, for what we're trying to do here and the source materials we have to work with, I think maybe paladins are better -- Divine Grace, Aura of Courage, Turning, Lay on Hands. Generally speaking, I think they're going to contribute much more than an extra few feats.

Aura of Courage alone would be awesome because it would allow them to operate in front of your symbols of fear with no trouble.

Talic
2009-06-07, 03:52 AM
For Yeth hounds:

Know your force. These animals cannot affect a single enemy more than once. They will also be heavily targeted. This makes them a highly effective tactic, with incredible area of effect, but one that won't last longer than a few rounds. Once they fly out, they WILL die, and within 1-2 rounds. But they will affect, if spread right, over 1000 square feet of army. Timed with a charge, it can turn a counterattack into a rout.

Further: Your troops aren't immune to this. So have a silence effect or three on hand to put around the location your guys will be. Scrolls or wands will suffice. The 20' radius will be enough to shield about 50 troops each. After that, block LoE. Use a building of some sort, and have the remainder of the charge follow up a round or two later, after the hound is out of range/dead.

Bonus points if used at night. This will allow for lowered targeting ability, and will help the hounds last longer. In such cases, consider elevating the hounds 150 feet, then flying them out. Have them drop over half the army, and let loose at once. Such a tactic would be highly effective.

Also, Yeth hounds could stop a charge in its tracks. Summon, and fly out, baying at the push.

None of these actions have Extended effect as beneficial. It creates a momentary span of total confusion in the enemy ranks that you can use to seize the advantage, or destroy an enemy tactic or ploy. It's not a long term effect. Use it for what it is, but vary tactics.

Next one could be a single Summon monster 7 for a bone devil to drop Ice barricades, and to teleport and sow confusion. Such a creature's DR makes it all but immune to attacks, and Ice walls will severely hamper enemies. Heck, again, 1 can stop a charge. And you have 14, with one casting of summon monster 7. For an idea on area of effect? 100 foot long wall, 10 feet tall.

Now put that wall just past the Symbols. Their entire army gets stopped on them.

If they're symbols of weakness, a 14 str warrior will go to 4 str. If that warrior is wearing 50 pounds of armor and holding a 10 pound weapon? He's encumbered.
It'll turn an 18 str warhorse into an 8 str mount. If they're holding a rider with breastplate, a shield, a lance, and a longsword? They're suddenly going to have a hard time moving under that 400 pounds of weight... 500 pounds if they've got barding.

Best yet, it takes almost 2 weeks for that penalty to wear off. There's no Hit point/hit dice limit. It lasts until it's done.

Tyrrell
2009-06-07, 06:42 AM
Do you know when the battle will happen?

If the answer to this question is yes then the single most valuable magic item for you is a wand of Rary's Mnemonic enhancer


Transmutation
Level: Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M, F
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Instantaneous

Casting this spell allows you to prepare additional spells or retain spells recently cast. Pick one of these two versions when the spell is cast.
Prepare

You prepare up to three additional levels of spells. A cantrip counts as ½ level for this purpose. You prepare and cast these spells normally.
Retain

You retain any spell of 3rd level or lower that you had cast up to 1 round before you started casting the mnemonic enhancer. This restores the previously cast spell to your mind.

In either event, the spell or spells prepared or retained fade after 24 hours (if not cast).
Material Component

A piece of string, and ink consisting of squid secretion with black dragon’s blood.
Focus

An ivory plaque of at least 50 gp value.

Use the first option. A ten minute casting time means that you can use all fifty charges in eight hours and 20 minutes.

Tell me that it wouldn't be ideal to have another 150 levels of spells prepped.

ChrisDemilich
2009-06-07, 07:40 AM
That is amazingly hardcore.. And within my price range. And the battle happens the next day, "around noon". So I should have time.

kme
2009-06-07, 07:55 AM
For planar binding, you want to call Ghaele (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ghaele.htm), Leonal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/leonal.htm) or Trumpet Archon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/archon.htm#trumpetArchon) as they are good and will probably agree to help you. Call them one day before the battle so they can prepare spells that that are best for the situation (well, it is obvious how this can be abused).

Of all battlefield control spells Wall of Fire (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wallOfFire.htm) is probably the best as it have the greatest area and can serve as a blast. You should buy a Staff of Fire (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/staffs.htm#fire) or two (but it seems that it is 10k more expensive in SRD than in DMG, just don't show your DM the one in SRD :smallamused:). Buying scrolls of Wall of Fire for those 26 wizards to use can also be smart as they can keep the concentration indefinitely from some hiding spot (or you can buy a wand and then let them share it but that is more risky).

Really, with multiple castings of wall of fire you can completely divide the opposing army, or you can cage them between four walls or create paths that lead to cloud kills etc. This combined with castings of Move Earth and Mirage Arcana before the battle can give you a huge advantage.

#Raptor
2009-06-07, 07:31 PM
Put a giant Symbol of Weakness on a big piece of canvas, cast fly/overland flight and invisibility on yourself.
Grab it and fly over the enemy troops (this might also help you find the enemy's cleric & sorcerer quickly :smalltongue: ).

Also, get yourself some wands.
Theres are tons of spells that are nice if spammed where you won't need a high cl.
Wand of Fly - giving a bunch of elite troops flight for 30 rounds sure sounds nice. Its probably even nicer if you enlarged them and gave them reach weapons.
Wand of Invisibility/See invisibility.
Wand of Fireball (CL 5) - on average 18 area damage may come in useful at times, reflex save 15.
Wand of Black Tentacles - lasts for 7 rounds, on average 52,5 (minimum 35) damage, grapple check attack modifier 15 - may be overkill though and its alot more expensive than the Fireball-wand. Maybe good for killing the enemys elite troops?

I'm sure there are alot more wands that might be useful.

Brom
2009-06-07, 08:17 PM
Can I say ''Hell yes'' to the Ghalae thingy?

It gets Greater Invisibility. Chain Lightning 1/day. Charm Monster at will. Greater Teleport at will. Prepares Cleric spells up to 7th level. Has a greatsword that is magical that it uses very well. Dispel Magic and Color Spray at will. Summon Monster VII as a typical prepared spell, and heal.

And dismissal, so it can handle the demon repulsion.

By the way, to the original poster, I sent you a PM. Not sure if you got it.

ChrisDemilich
2009-06-08, 05:04 AM
Wizard 13/Archmage 1

Gray elf for the extra intelligence.

Stats are Str 5, Dex 18, Con 13, Int 27(boosted with headband of int +6), wis 12, Cha 10.

Specialized as Conjurer with Evocation and Enchantment banned.

Items: Headband of Intellect +6, Gloves of Storing x 2, Ring of Protection +2, Artisan Clothing, Spellbook, Spell component bag, Staff of fire x 2, Wand of greater invisibility, Wand of Mnemonic Enhancer x 1, and Wand of Black Tentacles. Also bought several spell scrolls to learn many extra spells that could come in handy in case of a prolonged battle.

Skills: Concentration 17 ranks, Knowledge(Arcana) 17 ranks, Spellcraft 17 ranks, Hide 8 ranks(Cross-classed), Move Silently 8 ranks(Cross-classed), Listen 8 ranks(Cross-classed), Knowledge(Local) 1 rank.

Feats: Scribe Scroll, Skill Focus(Spellcraft), Spell Focus(Conjuration), Spell Focus(Illusion), Tattoo Focus, Greater Spell Focus(Conjuration), Extend Spell, Widen Spell.

Spells:

0- Message x 2, Detect magic x 1, Detect poison x 1, Acid splash x 1.
1- Grease x 2, Mage Armor x 2, Shield x 2, Feather fall x1(You never know).
2- See invisibility x 2, Alter self x 1, Fox's cunning x 2, detect thoughts x 1, Web x 1.
3- Dispel magic x 4, fly x 2, Stinking cloud x 1.
4- 1 Stone Skin, Polymorph x 1, Extended Haste x 2, Black Tentacles x 2, Arcane eye x 1.
5- Extended Mass enlarge person x 1, Teleport x 1, Wall of stone x 2, Overland Flight x 1.
6- Greater dispel magic x 1, Wall of iron x 1, Guards and wards x 1(In case they get in the main gate and we need to fortify the inner keep), Disintegrate x 1, Repulsion x 1.
7- Widened extended stinking cloud x 1, , Extended Summon monster 6 x 2

Extra spells learned thanks to 50 uses of wand of mnemonic enhancer:

Dispel magic x 25, Haste x 5, Grease x 15, Mage armor x 5, Shield x 5, Silent image x 5, Enlarge person x 30.

The day before the battle, I prepare 3 x Move Earth's, 1 x Control Weather, 1 x extended Mirage Arcana, 4 Planar Binding, 4 Magic circle against X, and 5 wall of stone.

I set up the Move Earth's to rearrange the terrain around the keep, causing it to become broken hard to move through, with many ten foot deep trenches throughout. The troops take several hours filling as many of those trenches with wooden spears as they can, so anyone falling in risks impalement.

I will use planar binding to summon 4 monsters. I was thinking 1 Leonal(For massive fire-power), 1 Trumpet Archon(Decent powered Cleric Ability), 1 Ghaele for utility with all those spell like abilities, and 1 Astral Deva(All around win). As a Neutral Good character, preparing for war against evil enemies, I hope they'll be glad to help.

Then, I'll use Mirage Arcana to hide as many of the pits and trenches as I can, and make the terrain look clear, starting with the ones that have spears.

Then, I cast the control weather spell to cause hurricane force winds, setting the radius surrounding the keep, with a good sized hole in the effect over the effect over the keep. Anything trying to reach us will have to pass through the weather.

I'll then cast wall of stones around the area, connecting the ends to the stone walls of the keep, to increase the defenses, and double up the walls throughout.

Then, I'll start casting Mnemonic Enhancer on myself at about 6 PM, until finished(Around 2:30 AM). I'll sleep my 8 hours, and wake up at around 11 AM, Spend an hour studying my spellbook, and then I'll be set for the battle, which should just about be starting.

Any changes you think should be made? It is almost time for battle(Tonight)

Edit: My party selected their characters:

We have a Barb/Fighter/Ranger, a Ranger/rogue focused on ranged, a cleric, and a Druid.

Talic
2009-06-08, 05:52 AM
Advice:

Remove the Extended Summon monster 6's, and prepare an extended Repulsion, and a Summon Monster 7.
Remove Repulsion, and prepare a regular Summon monster 6.

There's a feat that lowers the metamagic cost of a specific Metamagic feat by 1. I recommend it. You'll be able to get all your summon monsters extended, as well as all your other spells.

Useful, if you're looking to buy a little time. Literally.

EDIT: Note- Hurricane force winds will mean your enemy can't use ranged siege weaponry, but neither can you. Tread carefully with this.

ChrisDemilich
2009-06-08, 06:58 AM
Advice:

Remove the Extended Summon monster 6's, and prepare an extended Repulsion, and a Summon Monster 7.
Remove Repulsion, and prepare a regular Summon monster 6.

There's a feat that lowers the metamagic cost of a specific Metamagic feat by 1. I recommend it. You'll be able to get all your summon monsters extended, as well as all your other spells.

Useful, if you're looking to buy a little time. Literally.

EDIT: Note- Hurricane force winds will mean your enemy can't use ranged siege weaponry, but neither can you. Tread carefully with this.

We have virtually no siege weaponry anyway. This is not a Castle, just a small Keep. So it is not a minus at all.

And I'll take your advice on spells. Hopefully it'll help.

Also, We are only using core, since the DM wants to keep everything simple. So no special metamagic feats or anything.

Goatman_Ted
2009-06-08, 12:50 PM
The day before, you might want to burn your low-level spell slots on Extended Protection from Arrows, Extended Mage Armor, etc.

And I don't like the high-level Summon Monsters. Better to Planar Bind earlier in the day and have a scarier monster for longer. If you bind extra Trumpet Archons or Ghaele Eladrin before dawn, you can just have them prepare Summon Monster spells, if that's what you want.

I also would rather have the Ghaeles and Trumpet Archons that you bind the day before cast the Walls of Stone. It leaves you slots for binding Formian Taskmasters.

(Or Nightmares, Bralani Eladrin, Hound Archons, Bearded Devils, Achaierai, etc. But the Taskmaster's Dominate Monsters are a clear win for me.)

Duke of URL
2009-06-08, 01:43 PM
Not sure what your equipment budget is, but a rod of rulership could be used to wreak some wonderful havoc within the enemy ranks. Pop on over to the enemy side, use the rod to switch the allegiance of the first 300 HD to fail their will saves (if they get one), and have them fight their unaffected comrades for a while. (With a 120' range, you should be able to snag the full 300 HD each time.)

With 500 total minutes of use, you can just flit from place to place, affecting new groups and generally mucking them up

Quietus
2009-06-08, 01:47 PM
Remember that if you're creating Hurricane force winds, Cloudkill may not work. It seems to inherit some traits from Fog Cloud, which is dispersed in moderate winds; DMs may interpret the exact inheritance differently, so they may end up having your own cloudkills be dispersed by your Control Weather.

Tyrrell
2009-06-08, 02:05 PM
What are you intending to use the 29 dispel, magics for? wouldn't 5 be enough?

Dagren
2009-06-08, 02:33 PM
If you have the budget, a wand of fireball could be good in case you get to the point where you're running low and need to do some emergency blasting. Sub-optimal, but it's better than hitting the enemy with a stick. (Or picking up a bow. :smallamused:)

Duke of URL
2009-06-08, 02:37 PM
What are you intending to use the 29 dispel, magics for? wouldn't 5 be enough?

Counterspelling, I would imagine.

derfenrirwolv
2009-06-08, 04:27 PM
What level?

Summon monster VI will bring in one of these

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/bralani.htm

Cloudkill will take out entire swaths of the opposing army

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/cloudkill.htm



For ultimate cheese...

Magic Jar.


Put a jewel in the hilt of a dagger some mook on your side is carrying, so the gem winds up on the other side of the wall. Doesn't matter much whether he lives or dies.


You possess the highest level person you can , and have them give orders that will muck up the battle field, then have him order a retreat.


Then go back to the gem, possess someone else in that other unit, and lead them into combat with unit 2 for retreating "Those cowards!"

Go back to the gem, hijack someone in unit 3, have them close in on unit 2 "They've turned sides!"


Then hijack someone in unit 4 and have them attack unit 3 "no, THEY"VE turned sides!"

Its duration is measured in hours, and doesn't stop until you go back to your body, so you can literally do that all day.

Viv
2009-06-08, 06:09 PM
And I don't like the high-level Summon Monsters. Better to Planar Bind earlier in the day and have a scarier monster for longer. If you bind extra Trumpet Archons or Ghaele Eladrin before dawn, you can just have them prepare Summon Monster spells, if that's what you want.

Planar Binding is a non-trivial, risky exercise. It is also subject to varying interpretations of what exactly "one service" means.

The potential return is much greater, yes. But a little bad luck is all it takes for the results to be one dead, half-eaten mage who meddled with things he had no business meddling with.

Example, binding a Ghaele Eladrin: First, you prepare a magic circle, and you also want to use dimensional anchor. You've spent one third level, one fourth level, and one sixth level spell.

Ghaele Eladrin immediately gets a Will save at +10 to ignore you. DC is going to be 16+Intelligence Bonus. In other words, non-trivial chance to ignore you outright -- probably somewhere in the range of 20%-50%, depending on how much you stack Intelligence.

Next it gets to apply spell resistance of 28 to break free. You roll 1d20+14, which means we're talking something like needing to roll a 14 or better. This means it has as much as a 65% chance to break free, depending on whether you increase your caster level or reduce its spell resistance somehow.

Next it gets to try a Charisma check, which really just works out to a 5% chance it breaks free.

Then you have to beat it in a Charisma check to compel service. If the wizard in question has 10 Charisma, the best case scenario is that you manage to compel at a +3 net bonus, meaning it has a 30% chance to reject you.

The probability of success on the first try?

(1-.2)(1-.65)(1-.05)(1-.30)=0.18

Pretty low probability event. You can improve your chances, but you'll be spending a lot of resources in that direction.

You can do the whole "special diagram" thing from Magic Circle, which increases your odds of them not busting out (remove the 1-.65 term, increase the 1-.30 term to maybe 1-.5ish), but that still leaves you with a somewhat unattractive probability of success in the 40% range.

Goatman_Ted
2009-06-08, 06:51 PM
Pretty low probability event. You can improve your chances, but you'll be spending a lot of resources in that direction.


Of course you don't play fair.
You buff Charisma, you reduce the subject's charisma, you make sure you get the +6 Charisma check modifier -- use whatever arguments and incentives it takes. You use Magic Circle to make escape via SR or Charisma unpossible. You charm. You suggest. You set the party Binder/Hexblade/Paladin of Tyranny down behind it. You intimidate. You sicken.

And if all goes poorly, you dominate the subject.

It doesn't matter how many daily resources you blow if you have days before the fight. Domination and Binding both have long durations.

Viv
2009-06-08, 08:26 PM
Magic Circle doesn't make breaking out via Charisma impossible, only SR.

There is no party Binder/Hexblade/Paladin of Tyranny.

I've already taken into account getting the +6 bonus from cajoling in the numbers I ran above.

And the thing here is that if you seriously force the bound creature into service, you have to worry about the bound creature perverting the intent of the binding.

You're spending a ton of time and resources on a risky proposition, and what you've got is a long-term slave who's probably pissed off about the situation, constantly looking for an opportunity to pervert the intent of your orders... and who might be easily undone by anyone who rolls up with a Wand of Dismissal or Wand of Banishment. (because if the caster isn't careful, the DM may just rule that nothing in the binding compels the bound creature to resist said Dismissal or Banishment).

Look, I agree that Planar Binding is incredibly powerful, and under the right circumstances is superior to summons. But it's risky, non-trivial, and you're very much expending a ton of resources and effort -- the DM isn't going to give you unlimited prep time, and you could be using that prep-time for something else -- on a (admittedly powerful) servant whose obedience is unreliable.

Also, there's someone in the party that's better at this.

Look, if you want something like Planar Binding, just have the party Cleric roll out Planar Ally. It gives you roughly the same thing, it's lower risk, and you don't have to worry about the Ally perverting the intent of your orders.

In fact, the Cleric could multiclass and go Cleric(9)/Thaumaturgist(5), and really do the Planar Ally thing right.

The Cleric serves this function better. Let him do it instead.

Dagren
2009-06-08, 08:32 PM
Are you expecting an assault on the walls? If so, let's see them trying to climb a siege ladder after you cast grease on it. (It's a short duration, so you might want a wand of it so you can keep casting it)

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-08, 08:39 PM
Planar Binding isn't for this sort of situation. It's for a downtime activity during a campaign. And since it's downtime, you can spend all the resources you want. Toss 5 negative levels on a 6 HD demon. Hit them with Bestow Curse and Geas/Quest to reduce their check. If you do it right, they end up with a Cha check modifier 20 below yours before rolling. Look at this (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13677846&postcount=12) post for an in depth analysis of how to make a Succubus your slave as a 10 Cha Wizard 8. And then you give them a deal that is terrible. (You will become my willing slave for the rest of eternity, devoted to following the word and intent of my orders, never opposing me in any way or acting to harm me. In exchange:A shiny copper piece.)

ChrisDemilich
2009-06-08, 10:33 PM
Okay, so to address the last few issues: The cloudkill is for enemies that make it through the winds. Any that get through, get a face full of toxic gas.

I still plan to use the Planar Bindings the night before. We'll worry about the ramifications later. We are choosing all good characters, and hopefully the monsters we call will be understanding enough not to hold it against us.

The cleric and Druid will both be helping me set up the defenses. So we should have a fairly good set of defenses around us.

All those dispels are there in case we run into strong spellcasters who need to be countered, or magical offenses that need to be countermanded.

Anyway, Just an hour or two until the war begins! The party has assembled in chat, and we're going over our preparations now. I'll post regularly as it all goes down.

Edit: But then again.. If I summoned evil, or even neutral creatures, my party and I could conceivably 'force' them into compliance. Hard to make your rolls when the Party cleric using Bestow Curses, and other fun spells, and a party of high level characters ready to destroy it if it refuses. Hell, the cleric could also use quest to force the creatures to obey us. Or Mark of Justice if it betrays us. We'd just have to use very careful wording.

Viv
2009-06-08, 10:45 PM
Good luck.

ChrisDemilich
2009-06-08, 10:53 PM
Argh, this idiot has no idea how to play druids.. He was planning to prepare Cure X Spells for combat! *Rolls eyes*

I am trying to explain to him how much more useful he could be...

ChrisDemilich
2009-06-09, 12:51 AM
Okay, so I summoned a Grey Slaad, a Night hag, and two Efreeti. The cleric has summoned us up Two Astral Deva's, Two Ghaele, A Leonal, and a Couatl(Planar Ally brought it instead of another Leonal, but oh well. They are pretty good too. We've agreed to split all the loot from the battle and donate it to a variety of good aligned temples, AND, for making them work with evil creatures, we also have to go on a series of quests(If we survive) to wipe out evil in the world(Which is fine, because that is what we do anyway).

I set up my defenses, and I decided to take the advice above and cast some extended Mage Armors on any one who could use it(Except the level 1 peons).

Then, I set up the extra spells(The DM was COMPLETELY taken by surprised from the wand of Mnemonic Enhancer. Hehe), and Now, I am sleeping. The DM is going over the setup of the NPC's right now, and stuff. So, just a few minutes left!

Edit: Oh, and the good summoned creatures made us agree that the evil ones will fight on the other side of the battlefield, out of their general area, or they will no hesitate to attack them. So.. yeah...

Necrus Philius
2009-06-09, 01:28 AM
The magic jar idea could kill the army before it even arrives, why scry and die when you can scry and possess? Hell you get the leader and make him turn the whole damn thing around.

With all the corpses a battlefield provides animate dead and cloudkill would be a good combination.

Hell I'd prepare animate dead and control undead to get a second use out of those planar allies you summoned.

ChrisDemilich
2009-06-09, 01:34 AM
Well, the battle has started. Too late for skill reworking now. But for the moment, they are massing outside the storm. A few orcs and goblins have tried making it through the storm, but they seem to be having trouble with that. Hehe. But the bulk of the force is waiting there for some reason.

Edit: So a group of enemy wizards just teleported in with a group of fire giants. I use see invisibility and there is a wizard using fly over the fort to spy on our positions. I managed to disintegrate him. But now there are four mid level wizards with 4 fire giants in our base.

Okay, we killed the giants and wizards with minimal loss of life. A few NPC's. But now the hurricane is dissipating. It was all a diversion while their big caster took down my control weather with his own. I killed him too late. Personally, I think I still had time, but the DM just wanted the storm gone. Now their army is moving in. And we can see giants and ogres mixed with the hordes of Hobgoblins, orcs, and goblins.

Arakune
2009-06-09, 07:43 AM
Well, scrying to see their battle tactics was an option too.

Adumbration
2009-06-09, 08:00 AM
If you still have gold left, you need to buy 2 wands: wand of Invisibility and wand of Fly. When you locate enemy commanders, you take that group of 5th level fighters you've kept back, and buff 'em up with invisibility and flight. Then get Greater invisibility and flight on yourself, and set out to kill them. As soon as they're dead, or the tide is turning, turn them invisible again - survivors at least - and fly back.

Invisible commandos rule. Don't forget to have your party in with this too, in case the bosses are high level - in that case, use your troops merely to distract nearby mooks, and focus on killing the commanders.

ChrisDemilich
2009-06-09, 08:01 AM
The battle is still going on. We're calling it a night for now. But we are down by about 300 troops, and they have lost a lot more. Luckily, we're doing rather well. We are 6 hours into the battle, game time. The DM's auto roller as a round counter, and it maxed out at 999. So we are really far into the battle. Without that roller, we'd still be in the first hour likely.

Anyway, we lost none of my party, but the Astral Deva, the Slaad, and the Couatl all died. As well as a lot of our troops. They have not managed to breach the main wall. But my Illusionary terrain was dispelled. I managed to get my second casting of Create weather up, only to have it removed soon after.

And I am nearly out of spells. I have a few utility spells left. I might be useful when we face the big boss caster who keeps using these powerful magics, but until then, I am basically helping with defense, and controlling my minions. I have even used up both staffs of fire.

But, we are not done yet. We've killed almost half their force.

mostlyharmful
2009-06-09, 09:22 AM
But, we are not done yet. We've killed almost half their force.

As a point of interest in medivael times a kill ratio of about 5% was enough to rout most armies, I have enormous difficulty believing they'd stand after 10% and there's just no way a random shmoe in their forces should be able to stand and fight after half their mates got wasted by immense scareyass magic and they still haven't broken through!!!!!

If they just keep coming and coming no matter what happens it's not realistic enough, you need to start having the opposition abandon their lines in droves. When Caesar faced Pompey he had a three to one disadvantage, he won mostly on the basis that his troops knew they'd be killed if they gave in and Pompeys troops didn't care all that much. your guys know they have to fight for their homes and families, the enemy just know they're dying in droves a long way from home for no real reason.... how long do you think they'd stick around?

ChrisDemilich
2009-06-09, 10:04 AM
As a point of interest in medivael times a kill ratio of about 5% was enough to rout most armies, I have enormous difficulty believing they'd stand after 10% and there's just no way a random shmoe in their forces should be able to stand and fight after half their mates got wasted by immense scareyass magic and they still haven't broken through!!!!!

If they just keep coming and coming no matter what happens it's not realistic enough, you need to start having the opposition abandon their lines in droves. When Caesar faced Pompey he had a three to one disadvantage, he won mostly on the basis that his troops knew they'd be killed if they gave in and Pompeys troops didn't care all that much. your guys know they have to fight for their homes and families, the enemy just know they're dying in droves a long way from home for no real reason.... how long do you think they'd stick around?

Which makes me wonder about our enemy. You see.. I prepared detect thoughts, and the only thing I got from the enemies I read was fear of their master.

The DM implied that whoever their master is, he is a lot worse then dying.

So I am thinking we may be screwed.

mostlyharmful
2009-06-09, 10:09 AM
I prepared detect thoughts, and the only thing I got from the enemies I read was fear of their master.

The DM implied that whoever their master is, he is a lot worse then dying.

For all of them? All the time? Even in the heat of total annihilation? Really?:smallannoyed::smallconfused:

If fourteen thousand random shlubs routed in the face of such certain death who exactly is going to bother to round them up and punish them? In fact why did they bother with them in the first place? It's not a matter of can't it's a matter of can't be assed. This is a caster that can dispel your castings (and I assume you have the standerd CL boosts)..... what use are these thousands of grunts to them? You aren't fighting an army you're fighting this general and that's about all. The Control Weather alone should have flattened them without the DM fiat of an opposed high level magic user at which point why haven't you heard of this guy?:smallconfused:

Duke of URL
2009-06-09, 10:26 AM
Well, now it's time to start thinking out of the box... as noted, the one thing keeping the enemy from breaking and running is deus ex machina... er... fear of the BBEG by his minions.

So, try to diplomize them.

Have your highest CHA "face" get up on the walls and make a speech to the enemy, along the lines of "half of you have already died and you have not breached these walls... will the rest of you die as well? Or will you take an offer of truce, where we will allow you safe withdrawal?"

If nothing else, try to get them to slow down long enough to replenish spells. :)

ChrisDemilich
2009-06-09, 12:05 PM
Well, now it's time to start thinking out of the box... as noted, the one thing keeping the enemy from breaking and running is deus ex machina... er... fear of the BBEG by his minions.

So, try to diplomize them.

Have your highest CHA "face" get up on the walls and make a speech to the enemy, along the lines of "half of you have already died and you have not breached these walls... will the rest of you die as well? Or will you take an offer of truce, where we will allow you safe withdrawal?"

If nothing else, try to get them to slow down long enough to replenish spells. :)

That is a good plan. It's almost too bad we do not have a bard in the party now. That would be the one thing it could be good for.

As for everything mostlyharmful said.. I am fairly sure he is just tossing his minions in to weaken us. And it is working. After all.. even if the enemy is Level 20, against our entire, well prepared party, he could have lost. Of course, I have no clue who the enemy is. All our attempts to scry him failed. My guess is he is hidden from scrying somehow.. And as for the army, and why they do not run, well.. I am going to take Duke's advice, and try to convince them. Or, I'll get the cleric to do it. Or, I could always use major image, and get an illusion of some collossal demon creature to do it... Hehe. That could be fun too.

Tyrrell
2009-06-09, 01:01 PM
Then, I set up the extra spells(The DM was COMPLETELY taken by surprised from the wand of Mnemonic Enhancer. Hehe)

Woo Hooo!! I was helpful

tiercel
2009-06-09, 01:15 PM
It's almost too bad we do not have a bard in the party now. That would be the one thing it could be good for.

The ONE thing? Here's silly me thinking that, oh, +4 or more to hit and damage (inspire courage, charged up with inspirational boost and even a masterwork/magical instrument of choice) to everyone in your army in earshot might be worth it too. (And there's the outside chance that bardic knowledge might tell you *something* about the bad guy -- I mean seriously, there's a Huge Evil Invasion Force and no one has any idea who or why?)



And as for the army, and why they do not run, well.. I am going to take Duke's advice, and try to convince them. Or, I'll get the cleric to do it. Or, I could always use major image, and get an illusion of some collossal demon creature to do it... Hehe. That could be fun too.

While it is a staple of the fantasy genre that Huge Evil Hordes are welded together beyond normal morale endurance limits by fear of the Dark Lord.... unless they are all literally dominated or something they should still have a breaking point somewhere. (Even Sauron's orcs could be routed.)

Maybe you just need something to start the cascade. As impressive as your megafireball cascade is, maybe what you need to start the rout is to actually get a handful of folks actually running away -- fear or any old area fear-effect that can get a squad or company of enemy troops beating feet might be enough to tip the morale of nearby units over the edge.

OTOH, if your DM has programmed into the encounter "Horde will not rout as long as BBEG exists" then you're going to have to draw out the Big Bad for a throwdown to end this at all.

mostlyharmful
2009-06-09, 02:11 PM
I am fairly sure he is just tossing his minions in to weaken us. And it is working. After all.. even if the enemy is Level 20, against our entire, well prepared party, he could have lost. Of course, I have no clue who the enemy is. All our attempts to scry him failed. My guess is he is hidden from scrying somehow..

At which point who cares about minions? Seriously, why are you trying to hold this place? what strategic value has it got? In a world where high level characters throw armies at each other static cities and fortifications aren't in anyway useful or protectable, you slaughter this lot and another sixteen hordes are in a holding pattern waiting for the chance to have a crack at them, bound, mindganked, created, raised armies of mooks shuffle about the place and no-one takes castles seriously.

You've always got the chance to retreat, regroup, recharge and return... and really what's stopping you? An arbitrarily predecided focus on the defense of the city hampers the realism of this exercise, since most of the actual military power is in your small, highly mobile group you're all that really matter and you can just run and hide and come back tomorrow, ok the city will fall but you can retake it in short order with full casting and then repopulate from either the displaced masses or other easily rounded up plebs to fill your walls with servile slaves.... meh, it doesn't even matter.

If the army will never EVER break and the city is being attacked by an unknown force forcing around a nigh infinite line of mooks about then just shift the war from a siege campaign to a guerilla uprising, you'll mow down huge numbers either way.

Arakune
2009-06-09, 02:34 PM
rant

Probably he have a macguffin to protect in the city (a tomb, an artefact, etc).

mostlyharmful
2009-06-09, 02:53 PM
Probably he have a macguffin to protect in the city (a tomb, an artefact, etc).

So, immovable Macguffin meets irressistable Deus Ex. Great fun. Given the initial parameters were about the defense of an Azure City like metropolis against an invading army I think we can look at the unarguable bits of this as a crippling limit on how realiable any evidence it produces either way about that.

Chaelos
2009-06-09, 07:38 PM
I had something similar happen in an online campaign last week. Solid fog, fireball and grease proved helpful, although my character was only a level 7.

Flew overhead with greater invisibility, sniping mages and officer-looking people with magic missile or scorching ray. Then, when my party's army came in, I used solid fog and grease to frustrate the enemy's army--in particular, their cavalry, which was really unhappy about being caught in a zone of 5 ft movement/round.

Now, granted, that probably won't help you too much with the banning of evocation--but solid fog and grease are some very nice, low-level spells that rock out with the battlefield control aspect. And greater invisibility + flight (if you have a metamagic rod of extend, that's hugely helpful in maintaining these) will really allow you to wreak havoc. But another primary goal should always be neutralizing your counterpart before they have the chance to do the same to you.

ChrisDemilich
2009-06-10, 01:43 AM
Day two, and I've found the bad guy. Those extra points of hide and move silently paid off. I snuck into their main camp, and found that they had a mordenkainen's magnificent mansion set up. I am going to get my party, and then dispel the effect, forcing them out, so we can attack. We should be able to get a surprise round on them, and also have a chance to buff beforehand. Unless the enemy is some super epic enemy, we should prevail.

We will not be able to use our summoned creatures, since they are needed to hold off the enemy at the fort.

But, We'll see what happens.

Talic
2009-06-10, 02:03 AM
If your enemy is a caster, remember the big no-no's.

No dominating: Mind Blank makes you cry.
No Straight up illusions: True seeing.
YES to layered traps (Dimensional Anchor + Damage over time effect + Wall of Stone around him-or forcecage)

ChrisDemilich
2009-06-10, 02:09 AM
If your enemy is a caster, remember the big no-no's.

No dominating: Mind Blank makes you cry.
No Straight up illusions: True seeing.
YES to layered traps (Dimensional Anchor + Damage over time effect + Wall of Stone around him-or forcecage)

I still have a dimensional anchor, a stone wall, a finger of death, a few buff spells, and an evards black tentacles.

The Cleric and Druid may still some more useful spells too.

But,we called it a night for now. DM works in the morning.

Myrmex
2009-06-10, 02:35 AM
For all of them? All the time? Even in the heat of total annihilation? Really?:smallannoyed::smallconfused:

Motivator for the monstrous hordes:
http://martianchronicles.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/the-eye-of-sauron.jpg

Talic
2009-06-10, 02:45 AM
I still have a dimensional anchor, a stone wall, a finger of death, a few buff spells, and an evards black tentacles.

The Cleric and Druid may still some more useful spells too.

But,we called it a night for now. DM works in the morning.

Tentacles could work, however, Freedom of movement will otherwise nerf that. You may be able to trap an entire party in there with him (requires really good execution).

mostlyharmful
2009-06-10, 10:10 AM
Motivator for the monstrous hordes:
http://martianchronicles.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/the-eye-of-sauron.jpg

And what happened when this guy turned up again?
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/lotr/images/thumb/3/34/Aragorn2.jpg/350px-Aragorn2.jpg

Tyrrell
2009-06-10, 01:07 PM
I'm on the edge of my seat, I want to hear the rest of the battle.

#Raptor
2009-06-16, 12:47 PM
So... I'm kinda wondering how this ended?

Brom
2009-06-17, 06:22 PM
Is it thread necromancy to post so this goes back on the first page so that maybe the OP will tell us how it went?

#Raptor
2009-06-20, 06:10 AM
Not quite yet I think... and I think there are quite a few people who want to know what happens when you actually use a wiz for war - in a optimized way, that is.

Ghostwheel
2009-06-20, 06:33 AM
While I was running the "RHoDooM" I loved/hated the Elven Warmage in the party. He killed legions! And went to bed with spell slots unused.

If I ever play in a 3.5 War-style campaign, that is what I will try.

ImmortalAer
2009-06-20, 08:06 AM
So instead of making yourself a target... you make your friends targets! :smallsmile:

The first rule of teamwork.

Tyrrell
2009-06-22, 11:00 AM
Bump,

still eager to hear the end.

ChrisDemilich
2009-06-29, 10:00 PM
Bump,

still eager to hear the end.

We died...

The big bad was a Level 23 Lich. We were doing well, but could not pull it off.

Oh well.

Corwin Weber
2009-06-29, 10:57 PM
The first rule of teamwork.

The origin of the term 'Meatshield' as well. :)

#Raptor
2009-06-30, 08:24 AM
Ah well... then it probably was impossible to pull off (or, at least impossible without using infinity loops, totally broken stuff... etc).
I mean, you had a whole forum full of helpers, alot of them pretty experienced, so... well, yeah. If it ain't possible with that kinda backup, then its probably not possible at all.

Then again, I wonder if you see anything in retroperspective that you think could have changed the outcome.