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Blue Warlock
2009-06-06, 02:30 PM
I am playing an artificer in a friends campaign and I just wanted suggestions for the best 2nd level spells to use in an eternal wand (its a wand that has no charges but can be used twice a day for those that don't have MIC or Eberron).
Soon I am going to try picking up the Wand Mastery feat as well (+2 on CL and DC for spells cast from wands) if that helps anyone.
Right now I was thinking something that deals damage, like something along the lines of Combust or Scorching Ray, mainly because the campaign has had alot of undead and constructs so far, making most save or suck spells useless.
Anyone got any ideas?

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-06, 02:34 PM
Web
Command Undead

Blue Warlock
2009-06-06, 02:41 PM
Webs pretty good, but our party doesn't have much damage to use. Right now we have a single fighter to deal damage. Our wizard went Necromancy so it has some save or suck but nothing that kills (at least not until much later levels) and the other person in the party is a poorly built shadowcaster that has access to a few save or sucks. The end result right now is a party that can make everything way worse but can only kill something very slowly. Our encounters seem to last forever so I was thinking something that could really take out everything.

The Wizard already has Web and Control Undead as his spells that he prepares most often anyway, so most of the time it would be useless to have 2 webs in the same encounter. We don't fight undead every day either... just more frequently than anything else, so Control isn't even that super for us.

Thanks for the suggestion though.

Jack_Simth
2009-06-06, 02:47 PM
I am playing an artificer in a friends campaign and I just wanted suggestions for the best 2nd level spells to use in an eternal wand (its a wand that has no charges but can be used twice a day for those that don't have MIC or Eberron).
Soon I am going to try picking up the Wand Mastery feat as well (+2 on CL and DC for spells cast from wands) if that helps anyone.
Right now I was thinking something that deals damage, like something along the lines of Combust or Scorching Ray, mainly because the campaign has had alot of undead and constructs so far, making most save or suck spells useless.
Anyone got any ideas?
You want to avoid things with saves. So Glitterdust and Web are *mostly* out of the running. You don't really want to use Eternal Wands for offensive spells, for the simple reason that they're only good twice per day, and you'll generally want more than that. What you want to use Eternal Wands for is utility and buff effects that you expect to need on a daily basis

Rope Trick is good, but you want a nonstandard caster level - even with Wand Mastery, you want a base caster level in the wand of at least six (for eight hours of uninterrupted rest).

Invisibility, See Invisibility, Spectral Hand, and Alter Self are also solid choices.

herrhauptmann
2009-06-06, 02:54 PM
How about color spray. It's a mnd affecting though, so it's useless against undead.
On the otherhand, if a monster doesn't save against it, your artificer and the wizard can spend their turns dealing coup de grace against stunned monsters, while the fighter handles those which made their save.

Blue Warlock
2009-06-06, 02:58 PM
You want to avoid things with saves. So Glitterdust and Web are *mostly* out of the running. You don't really want to use Eternal Wands for offensive spells, for the simple reason that they're only good twice per day, and you'll generally want more than that. What you want to use Eternal Wands for is utility and buff effects that you expect to need on a daily basis

Rope Trick is good, but you want a nonstandard caster level - even with Wand Mastery, you want a base caster level in the wand of at least six (for eight hours of uninterrupted rest).

Invisibility, See Invisibility, Spectral Hand, and Alter Self are also solid choices.

Woops, forgot to mention I play a warforged, so most of these are pretty bad. There aren't many valid choices for Alter Self because the living construct type is so rare, my Armor check penalty is -15 so invisibility won't work too well for me (putting my move silently at -13). I don't sleep so Rope trick isn't super awesome. IIRC spectral hand sucks without touch spells to deliver, and with my HP and AC I am fine wading into combat if I had any that were decent. As for see invisibility, I have a few scrolls of it, but is it really so frequent that I should get a wand for it?

Siosilvar
2009-06-06, 03:05 PM
I don't sleep so Rope trick isn't super awesome.

Rope Trick will let everyone else in the party sleep safely, though.

Blue Warlock
2009-06-06, 03:29 PM
Good point about the rope trick, although with that we have left the realm of spells that are useful in combat. Important in this scenario as right now we only have the fighter to deal ANY real combat damage, and everything else is debuff/save or suck.

Also, is it the general consensus that the eternal wands shouldn't be used for offensive spells and that normal wands should be used instead? I'm a little greedy and I hate using expandable items, and the eternal wands are a little cheaper than normal wands. I can be persuaded otherwise though if it turns out I was just being stupid.

AslanCross
2009-06-06, 04:56 PM
-Glitterdust is a very good save or suck; it affects almost anything (even undead). Even if it does call for a save, it's pretty good.
-Web is nice, but it has a limitation---it needs anchoring terrain. Plus you might catch your frontliner with it.
-Eternal Wands are better used for spells that last a long time. Shooting scorching ray twice a day is kind of lame. At least having your shield up over a few encounters inside a dungeon is a lot more efficient use of your WBL.

deuxhero
2009-06-06, 05:21 PM
Woops, forgot to mention I play a warforged, so most of these are pretty bad. There aren't many valid choices for Alter Self because the living construct type is so rare,

I thought living construct was a subtype and that your type was construct.

Blue Warlock
2009-06-06, 09:03 PM
I thought living construct was a subtype and that your type was construct.
Right you are, I seem to have messed up on that one. I also didn't realize glitterdust had an effect on undead, for some reason I thought the blinding would have required a fortitude save. I suppose I will try a standard wand with a more combat oriented spell either Glitterdust or a damage dealer with no save like Combust or Scorching Ray. I'll figure out which one I use when I level and get the feat, if anybody else can deal damage by then: glitterdust, if not: something else with damage.

AslanCross
2009-06-07, 05:43 AM
Undead would normally be immune to Will-save effects, since many of them are [Mind-Affecting]. Glitterdust is not.

SSGoW
2009-06-07, 03:25 PM
hmm couldn't you cast rope trick then get inside and lean out and blast (thus you are outside the "door" and magic would work) and then just lean back into it? if so then rope trick would be a good wand to get and when you are inside you can pull up the rope and heal without fear of being attacked even during the battle... maybe not you but maybe your caster?

Coidzor
2009-06-07, 05:59 PM
Now that's an interesting idea... rope trick as cover during battle.

Wonder why I've never heard of that idea before...

only1doug
2009-06-08, 03:13 PM
Woops, forgot to mention I play a warforged, so most of these are pretty bad.

I imagine you already have repair moderate damage then?

ericgrau
2009-06-08, 03:41 PM
Avoid things with both saves and caster level dependency, unless they are still good even at low caster level and a made save. Buffs like invisibility are good (but not stat buffs like bull's strength). Resist energy is ok, though you only get 10. Rope trick, levitate and spider climb might be alright depending on your campaign.

Bayar
2009-06-08, 03:49 PM
You DONT nuke with eternal wands. Those are for persistent buffs. You nuke with normal wands that WILL act like eternal wands if you are doing it right (meaning you would burn one wand with only 2 shots....having a crazzap ton of metamagics on them tends to do that).

SSGoW
2009-06-08, 03:59 PM
Now that's an interesting idea... rope trick as cover during battle.

Wonder why I've never heard of that idea before...



because a wizard is really only overpowered when you use your imagination :3

Keld Denar
2009-06-08, 04:08 PM
Seeking Ray and Scorching Ray are 2 of the best level 2 wands. Both give more dice than normal when cast from minimum CL wands, which gives you more damage/gp spent. Heavy application of MM such as Split Ray, Empower Spell, and Twin Spell also has the best appreciation.

Unfortunately, Lesser Orb wands are pretty expensive when you get a CL worth using. They also aren't Rays, so they don't qualify for the cheaper Split Ray and have to rely on the +4 Twin Spell to double their output.

If you want an antigolem wand, Sculpted Grease is a good one. Grease is normally bad to wand because of the 1 round duration at min CL. Sculpted Greases has a CL of 3, which lasts 3 times longer, and affects 4 10x10 squares instead of 1, giving you (3*4)=12 times the effect of a CL 1 grease for 6 times the cost.

Paul H
2009-06-08, 04:33 PM
Hi

Incediary Slime (CM). Highly flammable 'grease' that does 4D6 fire dam when ignited.
Summon Swarm (PHB). Summon Bats
Sonic Wpn (SpC). Extra D6 Sonic Dam to wpn.

Just a few - definitely more.

Cheers
Paul H

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-06-08, 07:31 PM
Lesser Sonic Orb. Sonic does full damage to constructs, ignores SR (thus bypasses golem immunity), perfectly functional against undead, and is a consistant and reliable damage dealer. However, it is one of those spells you WANT to have on your CL so the damage can be appropriate.