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souldoubt
2009-06-06, 05:48 PM
Has anyone come across a 4e adaptation of China Mieville's Bas-Lag world (Perdido Street Station, The Scar, Iron Council)?

I think Bas-Lag/New Crobuzon would make a killer D&D setting, and the race mechanics of 4e are flexible enough that with a little creativity the Bas-Lag races could be shoehorned into the mechanics of existing 4e races.

J.Gellert
2009-06-06, 06:04 PM
One Dragon Magazine had stats for races/weapons/monsters of Bas-Lag, but that was 3.5 edition. But I haven't played 4th so I don't know if it would be harder to come up with entirely new stats, or convert those of the earlier edition...

JonestheSpy
2009-06-06, 06:26 PM
One Dragon Magazine had stats for races/weapons/monsters of Bas-Lag, but that was 3.5 edition.


Man, I'd love to see that. Mieville's world-building is just magnificent...thought come to think of it, I'd rather have more world/campaign info than just monster and weapon stats...

souldoubt
2009-06-06, 08:08 PM
One Dragon Magazine had stats for races/weapons/monsters of Bas-Lag, but that was 3.5 edition. But I haven't played 4th so I don't know if it would be harder to come up with entirely new stats, or convert those of the earlier edition...

I'm aware of this, but A) I have no way of getting a hold of the article that I know of; B) I don't know that it would prove particularly useful for a 4e adaptation. As I mentioned above, with a bit of imagination, existing 4e races could be used as templates for Bas-Lag races, which I think would probably be easier/better than trying to convert 3.5 races to 4e. The Dragon article might be interesting and even insightful and I'd like to take a look at it, but again, see A.


Man, I'd love to see that. Mieville's world-building is just magnificent...thought come to think of it, I'd rather have more world/campaign info than just monster and weapon stats...

I agree, but I'd hoped that reading through the remaining books in the "series" (I'm still on Perdido Street Station) and trawling wikipedia would suffice for campaign information. I wasn't planning to run a game myself; I've got my hands full with one.

I've heard tell of a Bas-Lag RPG from Adamant (based on some Victorian-RPG system of theirs, I believe, and not release yet) that might provide further world-information if necessary. If this makes you wonder why I don't just wait for said RPG to come out, it's because I'm impatient, I'm suspicious as to whether it will ever come out, and I'm too lazy to learn yet another system. :smalltongue:

souldoubt
2009-06-07, 12:06 AM
One Dragon Magazine had stats for races/weapons/monsters of Bas-Lag, but that was 3.5 edition.

Actually, now that I think about it, there's potential for an Iron Heroes adaptation of Bas-Lag, using these rules. Anyone know of where/how I could get my hands on them?

J.Gellert
2009-06-07, 08:37 AM
There's some fluff in that Dragon magazine, actually, but nothing you don't already get from the books. It's mostly worth it for the crunch - it's interesting, just to see how they statted the Possible Sword.

It's in Dragon Magazine #352.

JonestheSpy
2009-06-08, 12:21 AM
Accidental bump now edited, sorry.

bosssmiley
2009-06-08, 04:55 AM
Has anyone come across a 4e adaptation of China Mieville's Bas-Lag world (Perdido Street Station, The Scar, Iron Council)?

I think Bas-Lag/New Crobuzon would make a killer D&D setting, and the race mechanics of 4e are flexible enough that with a little creativity the Bas-Lag races could be shoehorned into the mechanics of existing 4e races.

Bas Lag would really, really not work well with 4E as written. For all its spectacle Bas-Lag is a down-and-dirty setting where the characters probably don't rise above 1st level in 4E terms. Heck, the D&D-style adventuring party we see in PSS ends up TPK'ed, and a single phase spider (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/phaseSpider.htm) is a terrifying alien entity.

The world of New Crobuzon, Armada and the Cacotopic Stain is also inherently anti-heroic in a profoundly Hobbesian way: the bad guys always win; it never gets any better; and any victory will be temporary and pyrrhic at best. That kind of dourness would probably make WFRP, Labyrinth Lord or GURPS much better systemic fits than a Remade 4E.

Lapak
2009-06-08, 11:10 AM
Bas Lag would really, really not work well with 4E as written. For all its spectacle Bas-Lag is a down-and-dirty setting where the characters probably don't rise above 1st level in 4E terms. Heck, the D&D-style adventuring party we see in PSS ends up TPK'ed, and a single phase spider (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/phaseSpider.htm) is a terrifying alien entity.

The world of New Crobuzon, Armada and the Cacotopic Stain is also inherently anti-heroic in a profoundly Hobbesian way: the bad guys always win; it never gets any better; and any victory will be temporary and pyrrhic at best. That kind of dourness would probably make WFRP, Labyrinth Lord or GURPS much better systemic fits than a Remade 4E.I was coming here to say exactly this. The basic theme of the setting is that you might be able to preserve the status quo by sacrificing everything you care about. Maybe. You won't make things better; the best you can hope for is to keep things from getting worse. And even that won't last forever. The best system for it mechanics-wise is probably one of the early editions of Call of Cthulu.

Haven
2009-06-08, 11:22 AM
Bas Lag would really, really not work well with 4E as written. For all its spectacle Bas-Lag is a down-and-dirty setting where the characters probably don't rise above 1st level in 4E terms. Heck, the D&D-style adventuring party we see in PSS ends up TPK'ed, and a single phase spider (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/phaseSpider.htm) is a terrifying alien entity.

The world of New Crobuzon, Armada and the Cacotopic Stain is also inherently anti-heroic in a profoundly Hobbesian way: the bad guys always win; it never gets any better; and any victory will be temporary and pyrrhic at best. That kind of dourness would probably make WFRP, Labyrinth Lord or GURPS much better systemic fits than a Remade 4E.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

Although the Weaver is a leetle bit more than a phase spider; it also managed to turn that one guy's gun into glass for instance. But yeah.

souldoubt
2009-06-08, 06:30 PM
Bas Lag would really, really not work well with 4E as written. For all its spectacle Bas-Lag is a down-and-dirty setting where the characters probably don't rise above 1st level in 4E terms. Heck, the D&D-style adventuring party we see in PSS ends up TPK'ed, and a single phase spider (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/phaseSpider.htm) is a terrifying alien entity.

The world of New Crobuzon, Armada and the Cacotopic Stain is also inherently anti-heroic in a profoundly Hobbesian way: the bad guys always win; it never gets any better; and any victory will be temporary and pyrrhic at best. That kind of dourness would probably make WFRP, Labyrinth Lord or GURPS much better systemic fits than a Remade 4E.

You probably should have read my later post where I mentioned Iron Heroes might work better. :P I was initially considering 4e only because it is very easy to re-fluff the mechanics. Iron Heroes wouldn't be ideal either, but there's nothing to say that the grimy, gritty tone of Bas-Lag wouldn't lend itself to a game with a slightly more heroic bent. In fact I generally think of Iron Heroes as promoting a gritty tone that's in line with the world of Bas-Lag, if not necessarily the plot progression that the stories follow. I'm not talking about replicating the events of Perdido Street Station, after all, just the world it takes place in. I think the tone and feel could be preserved even if the game were more in line with RPG-style progression.

Also, having characters "rise above 1st level" is entirely a mechanical consideration as far as I'm concerned; if things are re-fluffed properly, and the characters are facing challenging (crunch-wise) and/or disturbing (fluff-wise) encounters, level of play becomes as I said, a mechanical consideration that doesn't have to effect the tone as much as you might think -- especially in a game as inherently re-fluff-able as 4e. In a flexible system, tone can be as much a matter of good DMing and player consensus as it is a reflection of the mechanics, if not more so.

Regardless, I think I'm more intrigued by the idea of a Bas-Lag RPG and the potential mechanics one might use than I might be by the reality of playing it. :smallwink:

JonestheSpy
2009-06-08, 08:42 PM
Well, a campaign in Bas-lag wouldn't be any darker than a number of DnD worlds - Ravenloft and Dark Sun (and the old Thieves' World campaign setting based on the books) leap to mind.

And I think there's a LOT of examples of high-level heroics in Mieville's stories - the adventurers hired by the protagonists in Perdido Street Station are flat-out modeled on RPG PC's, almost a homage ( and who, by the way, were not TPK'ed - they lost two out of three, and really, an adventure that doesn't run the real risk of death is a sucky one). Judah, one of the protagonists of the Iron Council, is very high level in his own 'prestige class' - a mage whose powers are all about making golems. The Scar features a number of amazingly skilled characters, most notably warrior-scientist Uther Doul and rogue-spy Silas Fennec, and the Brucolac is a great role model for a vampire player-character. Oh, and Jack Half-A-Prayer, who appears in Perdido and is featured in his own short story in Mieville's collection Looking for Jake, embodies the archetype of the rebel/vigilante hero.

It is true that most of Mieville's main characters aren't much good in a fight - they're scientists, artists, reporters, and linguists. But they rub shoulders with incredibly powerful folks - not entirely dissimilar to the hobbits mixing with Elrond, Gandalf, and Aragorn in LOTR.
{Scrubbed}

souldoubt
2009-06-08, 10:39 PM
Well, a campaign in Bas-lag wouldn't be any darker than a number of DnD worlds - Ravenloft and Dark Sun (and the old Thieves' World campaign setting based on the books) leap to mind.

And I think there's a LOT of examples of high-level heroics in Mieville's stories - the adventurers hired by the protagonists in Perdido Street Station are flat-out modeled on RPG PC's, almost a homage ( and who, by the way, were not TPK'ed - they lost two out of three, and really, an adventure that doesn't run the real risk of death is a sucky one). Judah, one of the protagonists of the Iron Council, is very high level in his own 'prestige class' - a mage whose powers are all about making golems. The Scar features a number of amazingly skilled characters, most notably warrior-scientist Uther Doul and rogue-spy Silas Fennec, and the Brucolac is a great role model for a vampire player-character. Oh, and Jack Half-A-Prayer, who appears in Perdido and is featured in his own short story in Mieville's collection Looking for Jake, embodies the archetype of the rebel/vigilante hero.

It is true that most of Mieville's main characters aren't much good in a fight - they're scientists, artists, reporters, and linguists. But they rub shoulders with incredibly powerful folks - not entirely dissimilar to the hobbits mixing with Elrond, Gandalf, and Aragorn in LOTR.

All excellent points.


{Scrubbed}

Word.

JonestheSpy
2009-06-18, 02:41 AM
Bumping this up because I just finished Mieville's novel Un Lun Dun. Not set in the world of Bas-Lag, more of a modern urban Faery-type world similar to Gaimen's Neverwhere. I highly, highly recommend it - not just a great story, but a wonderful source of original, bizarre material to use in a campaign, probably easier to just pick and choose from than the Perdido novels.

Animated broken umbrellas that can act as weapons or shields (or spies, or servants, or...). Vicious, incredibly dangerous carnivorous giraffes. Half-ghosts. Zombies animated by evil, senitent smog. And the UnGun, probably the most interesting magic weapon to come along in decades.

Check it out.

souldoubt
2009-06-18, 01:41 PM
Bumping this up because I just finished Mieville's novel Un Lun Dun. Not set in the world of Bas-Lag, more of a modern urban Faery-type world similar to Gaimen's Neverwhere. I highly, highly recommend it - not just a great story, but a wonderful source of original, bizarre material to use in a campaign, probably eisier to just pick and choose from than the Perdido novels.

Animated broken umbrellas that can act as weapons or shields (or spies, or servants, or...). Vicious, incredibly dangerous carnvorous giraffes. Half-ghosts. Zombies animated by evil, senitent smog. And the UnGun, probably the most interesting magic weapon to come along in decades.

Check it out.

Will do. :smallsmile: