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View Full Version : Does anyone here actively use GURPS? (And some questions about "The Savage Tide"AP)



Surfing HalfOrc
2009-06-07, 07:57 PM
I have a bunch of GURPS stuff, but I have never played a game (outside of "All in a Nights Work"). I mostly use it as an Idea Seed generator, and a way of fleshing out characters, both in game, and in fiction writing. The advantages, disadvantages and quirks is a great way to add depth to characters when you are drawing a blank.

I know it's like the second best selling RPG system (I think), but I've never met anybody who actually PLAYS the game.

So, if you play the game, or have played the game, tell me what you think of it. Is it "better" than other game systems? "Worse?" About the same?

It seems like it would be much bigger on "role-playing," while still having a certain amount of "roll-playing." Does it lend itself to much "Munchkinism?"

Part of why I'm asking is because my son (age 8) and some of his friends want me to DM games for them, but D20 can be a bit difficult for kids, while GURPS game mechanics seem much simpler. I think I could adapt GURPS to other adventures pretty quickly, even on the fly with a bit of practice.

Thanks for any opinions.

Yahzi
2009-06-07, 08:10 PM
I played it for years. These days I run a single D&D game. Mostly I write. I did set some short stories in the GURPS world, though.

Starscream
2009-06-07, 08:12 PM
So, if you play the game, or have played the game, tell me what you think of it. Is it "better" than other game systems? "Worse?" About the same?

It's one of the better ones. Probably on my top 5 list.

And as far as "generic" systems go (i.e. ones that can be used for any type of game) it is probably the best one of all.

I got into it a few years ago because I am a huge fan of Terry Pratchett's Discworld novels, and guess which system was allowed to adapt them?

The only flaw with GRUPS is that it is so focused on fitting every setting and style that it usually can't do as well as a system specifically developed for that setting or style.

You can do a great sword & sorcery like game with it, but probably not as good as you could with d&d. You can do a great superhero game, but not as good as Mutants & Masterminds.

But whenever you want to do something that is either totally original or blends various genres, it is probably the best choice.

Waspinator
2009-06-07, 08:52 PM
Yeah, it's best for crossing genres. Like, for example, the whole infinite worlds (I may not have that name exactly right) setting. It's one of the few game systems that could handle a bunch of wizards finding themselves on the Enterprise.

xPANCAKEx
2009-06-07, 09:05 PM
GURPS is a lot more front end heavy on the character creation side of things. Its a lot more flexible in the types of characters you can think up... so if you're DMing young kids it may be wise to ask them what sort of game they wanna play/what sorta characters they wanna be. Maybe even give them all matching stat sheets (or maybe only minor variations so they can all specifically have a bit of time in the spot light) so they can learn the system and not feel "waaah, hes better than meeeee"

also - sign up the SJ Games forum - massive gurps community - all obvious very pro gurps and can help you avoid any early pitfalls

valadil
2009-06-07, 09:24 PM
One of my GMs is a huge fan of the system. I've been playing with him for a couple years now. He runs a good game, but other GURPs experiences have been less than fun.

One of the things you have to realize with this game is that you should never play all of it at once. Pick and choose which rules you'll be using to model your game. I like my current GM because he does his homework in advance and selects a good balance of rules.

My biggest problem with the system is that character creation is too complicated. There are too many options and too many ways to achieve the same effect, but for different costs. It lends itself to rewarding the player who spends the most time digging through rulebooks with a calculator at hand. Even after playing through several campaigns, I wouldn't want to make a character without a GM helping.

The game itself is a good time. I like melee combat in GURPs way more than in D&D.

I think if you're running GURPs for a group of 8 year olds, you should be fine as long as you make the characters for them. I'd make the characters very similar. Maybe even give them all the same stats but with different weapons and personalities.

CharlieRock
2009-06-07, 09:25 PM
I play the heck out of GURPS. I started out playing GURPS Autoduel (sort of a roadwarrior post-apocolypse setting). Then Horror. Then Horror/Autoduel. Then Conan (yes, GURPS did it before Mongoose).
Lately I played a detective in the 1920s solving mysteries and having car chasing shootouts with mobsters.
It is an excellent system.
Just doesnt do dungeon crawls quite the same. :smallwink:

CharlieRock
2009-06-07, 09:26 PM
I think if you're running GURPs for a group of 8 year olds, you should be fine as long as you make the characters for them. I'd make the characters very similar. Maybe even give them all the same stats but with different weapons and personalities.

GURPS TMNT :smallbiggrin:

Decoy Lockbox
2009-06-07, 10:08 PM
I'm in a GURPS game right now, called Time Crips. The basic idea is that we are all a bunch of Crip gang members from 1992 Compton, and we killed a guy for his watch, and then his spirit possessed our crappy car, and now he we travel through time solving mysteries in a talking car.

The only GURPS game I've ever run was "The S-Files" which was essentially the X-files set in 1720's America.

I like GURPS quite a bit, but character creation is very involved and there are many avenues for munchkinism. I think I once made a sci-fi char named "Xiron Darkstar", and spent like 20 total hours making the char, just really eeking out every little bonus, and then the campaign got cancelled after the second session.

I have two complaints with gurps -- one is that it is too difficult to kill people, especially when your party isn't specialized in fighting. This of course is not the case at the higher tech levels once crazy souped up high explosive assault rifles come into play (way better than either railguns or lazer guns), but at the lower levels when your damage is 1d6+2 with a sword, its pretty tough trying to kill a guy with even like 13 hp and a 12 health.

My second complaint is that there are too many friggin skills. The system really encourages players to diversify their bonds..I mean skills, but its a bit crazy. I feel like some of them should be rolled up into other skills. I'm not looking at my character sheet right now, so I can't give any specific examples, but thats just the way I feel.

I think GURPS might be a little complex for 8-year olds, but then again I was playing MTG at that age, and it worked out. I guess it depends on their aptitude.

Surfing HalfOrc
2009-06-07, 10:46 PM
Lots of good info so far. Thanks for all your input!

I'm not sure what I'm going to do next... They like the Savage Tide Adventure Path, but I'm a bit leery about the endgame... Pirates and zombies and dinosaurs? Pure happiness for a bunch of 8-year-olds. Explaining Porphyry House to that same bunch of impressionable kids? Not so much for the DM. :smallsigh:

That's why I'm kicking around GURPS so much. Simpler fights, and converting most of the monsters into something easier, yet challenging, to fight. I just need to modify a few questionable encounters into something less sexually charged, and we're off to the races! Also, making deals with demons to fight other demons? The subtlety is enjoyed by older players, but two of the kids are the sons of our church pastor! Yeah, double :smallsigh::smallsigh:.

I'll take suggestions for that as well.

amanamana
2009-06-08, 12:07 AM
Big GURPS supporter here.
I'll just advise you on using the combat lite rules, or your own version of it, picking the additional rules you care for. Cause, you know, tactical combat in GURPS, with all the rules I cherish so much, can get a bit brutal and gory for youngsters, with characters being mutilated and bleeding to death.
Other than that, I think GURPS is a great system for kids, their natural creativity can barely be contained in classes based systems.

Hope you have lots of fun!:smallsmile:

Decoy Lockbox
2009-06-08, 10:27 AM
Big GURPS supporter here.
I'll just advise you on using the combat lite rules, or your own version of it, picking the additional rules you care for. Cause, you know, tactical combat in GURPS, with all the rules I cherish so much, can get a bit brutal and gory for youngsters, with characters being mutilated and bleeding to death.
Other than that, I think GURPS is a great system for kids, their natural creativity can barely be contained in classes based systems.

Hope you have lots of fun!:smallsmile:

This is quite true. During my first time playing GURPS, I noticed that it is far, far easier to dismember (and therefore incapacitate) an opponent than it is to actually kill them, since the damage thresholds for legs/arms, and especially hands, is so low. This lead to some very, very brutal tactics from our playgroup once I pointed this out. All our fights began to be "go for the arm, once its gone just leave the guy bleeding on the floor. We'll finish him off once all the enemies are down", which, while much more realistic than D&D combat, is just brutal as hell. I mean, I like to think of myself as a very jaded, cynical person, but the idea of my 20 Strength, halberd wielding warrior chopping off limbs left and right, and the sheer amount of blood being spilled, was enough to give me some form of tabletop shellshock. Just for reference, we were playing with the "+3 to damage = extra d6" rule, and I believe my halberd swings dealt 6d+2 cutting damage, so severing limbs was exceedingly easy, even if the enemy was wearing armor.

Don't even get my started on the time I feinted, got a margin difference of like 10 or so, and then flipped the halberd around to the spike end and critted my opponent's unprotected groin. All the guys sitting at the table winced :smalleek: And the rules even said you have to spend your next turn pulling the bloody, gore covered weapon out of your opponent, since it was a "swing impaling" weapon, and it had gotten stuck.

Long story short, Amanamana is totally right about the gore level, and you should definately tone it down for kids. You could eliminate called shots/hit locations and just do HP damage like in D&D.

Halaster
2009-06-08, 11:47 AM
After trying to adapt GURPS to a variety of settings, I've found that it lends itself like nothing else out there to playing in historical settings. As written, the rules are pretty realistic and gritty, which gives grain and texture to historical campaigns. There are tons of sourcebooks for just about any era (Swashbucklers and Age of Napoleon are those I own, and they're fantastic), to give you a starting point, including job tables, specifics of rank and status, money etc.

I found that other types of games require more extensive reworks of the system to accomodate, say, sword and sorcery or space opera. There are sourcebooks there, but you would usually need more than one (for the examples above: Fantasy and Magic or Space and Aliens would be minimum), or you have to do the adapting yourself, which will usually work out very fine for a one-off, but is very exacting for a longer campaign.

To give you an example, I once ran a far future game on a convention, and had simply prepared game stats for all the equipment and creatures that would show up without much reference to any sourcebooks. But that already covered half a dozen pages of A4 paper. So, for a campaign in that setting... the mind boggles. At least my lazy mind does.

But if you really had to pick just one rulebook to own, I'd recommend that one. The possibilities are unlimited.

Jayabalard
2009-06-08, 12:20 PM
Then Conan (yes, GURPS did it before Mongoose). TSR did it before that.

Tyrmatt
2009-06-08, 02:59 PM
I'm running a Fallout themed game in GURPS at the moment with players who have never played it before and character creation was an utter utter nightmare. Due to the custom scenario and the massive variety of abilities available, GURPS doesn't have nice neat premade dudes that fit your potential scenarios. Compare this to say the D&D 4th Edition Keep on the Shadowfell which comes with a pack of premade characters that allow first timers to pick a role and then perhaps move on to their own choices from there.

Instead I spent an hour and a half trying to prevent a player from picking a variety of psychic or superhero powers that they couldn't possibly use because they just don't exist in the Fallout universe.

Once in motion, it feels fairly fluid and theres no fumbling for dice. I gave each player three dice in one particular colour. Player A always had just red dice, thus eliminating any problems with figuring out rolls or finding dice. I think I may have accidentally powered them up a little too high (they ripped apart my opening encounter group like they were made of butter and paper) but I'll just compensate by introducing more powerful foes. After all, they are playing as a Super Mutant and a Vault Dweller, which in the games are ludicrously overpowered compared to the rest of the world. Hell, in the games it was possible to power yourself up so high, you could spinning kick the final boss (who had nearly double the health of any other enemy in the game) to death in one hit if you knew what you were doing.


As they approached the raider camp, they could see a watchtower with a raider snoozing lazily in it. He perks up upon hearing the car and took aim. The supermutant player braced her machine gun against the car door and fired a few shots. Rolled the dice. Since they were combat ready characters, she only needed something like a 15 or less to hit. Bullets fly and as they pulled up to the tower (which they had been planning to ram if they couldn't overcome the enemies) bloody is pouring out of the ventilated enemy. They then opened fire on the other approaching raiders and within a few rounds (including a dramatic jump away from some grenades) they had them all at gunpoint and had through combined fire reduced one to not more than shreds of meat and liquid. They then broke one of the raiders wrists to make him more talkative before just dodging a sniper bullet from inside a canyon.

Overall, I like it and I love the idea of starting a world-hopping campaign or space adventure in it. But for classic dungeoneering, I'll still reach for Wizards of the Coast every time. I'm just more comfortable there. But for a more unconventional setting or for flexibility, especially in campaigns where parallel universes, superheroes and psychic powers are often quite conventional, GURPS is unparalleled. Let your imagination loose with it.

warmachine
2009-06-08, 06:00 PM
Instead I spent an hour and a half trying to prevent a player from picking a variety of psychic or superhero powers that they couldn't possibly use because they just don't exist in the Fallout universe.
The moral of this story, folks, is to make sure players understand the campaign genre and settings. And that Tymatt has the patience of a saint for not kicking this obstinate player out.

fusilier
2009-06-09, 04:27 PM
I've tot to agree with most of what has been said here.

I mainly run 3rd ed. But 4th is very similar. Character creation can be complicated, but once your done with that actual game play is simple -- roll three dice compare it to your stat (GM applies modifiers). The last GURPS campaign I ran the players picked mostly non-combat characters, and managed to avoid all the combat I had planned for the last adventures. However, everybody still had a good time. So combat isn't necessary for a good GURPS game.

A couple notes:

1. GURPS requires the GM to decide on the world, and limit the character options (many players coming from D&D are overwhelmed by the options in GURPs, and often frustrated when I tell them they can't take "immune to kinetic damage" in my 17th century historical game!).

2. Don't play with "all" the rules, its not possible. Pick some you like and use them. In my last swashbuckling campaign I used some optional wounding rules found in Compendium II that were really good. However those rules would have been unnecessary in a modern gun-centered campaign.

3. Magic. Admittedly I haven't done much with magic, but I've been looking at it more lately. Magic in GURPs is very detailed. You can't simply learn how to throw fireballs -- first you have to learn how to ignite fire, then create it, shape it, etc., until you can learn the fireball spell.

4. Experience and character advancement. This is something I don't bother with in GURPS. The rewards are typically quite small (although you can change that). Characters are essentially done when you create them and you're not constantly updating them. The experience points are really only useful in enhancing skills that you find yourself using often. Personally I like that.

5. Opponents. Don't worry about the point costs of NPC's. Just give them stats/skills at levels that you think will provide the appropriate challenge. You may have to fib things a little bit until you understand your group (unless you're not adverse to simply wiping them out). Like others have mentioned it's really easy to incapacitate someone (potentially for months), but it's actually difficult to outright kill them.

Waspinator
2009-06-09, 05:55 PM
As has been said, one of the things about GURPS is that it does stick a fair amount of pressure and work on the DM. It's basically up to him to figure out what to allow and not allow in the game and it'd be a really good idea to explain that all to the players before any character creation starts. Unless you're doing an anything-goes parallel universe or comic-booky game in which cases you should just say "have at it!" and let them make whatever wacky characters they want.

Satyr
2009-06-09, 06:14 PM
Gurps has an enormous strength, which is also its great drawback: It allows you to do whatever you want with the system, but to actually use this, you need to have a pretty good idea of what you actually want in the campaign and setting. For this reason, it is an excellent system if you want to influence the details of a setting or create one of your own, but if you just want to play a quick game without investing much time and thought into the campaign's parameters, gurps is probably not the best choice.

Tyrmatt
2009-06-10, 03:21 AM
The moral of this story, folks, is to make sure players understand the campaign genre and settings. And that Tymatt has the patience of a saint for not kicking this obstinate player out.

The problem is I homebrewed the Fallout setting for 2 friends who are Fallout junkies and a few others who had never played Fallout but wanted to play tabletop joined in. Between me and my flatmate, we were able to indicate which powers were acceptable and they actually warmed up to not having those powers when I mentioned that powers with the Alien/Exotic icon weren't available...yet. And they may yet acquire abilities like Unkillable as well. Fallout PCs are notable as being some of the most badass paragons ever to walk the wastes and so I don't see why after particularly lengthy survival they start to take on these abilities. Another session might be on tonight so with everyone good and settled (though maybe a new player is joining so I'll leave it to the players to help them figure out what's a good niche for him to fill) it'll hopefully be more fluid and I can get down to the usual backstabbing, low-life Nuclear-West that is Fallout.

fusilier
2009-06-10, 12:26 PM
Gurps has an enormous strength, which is also its great drawback: It allows you to do whatever you want with the system, but to actually use this, you need to have a pretty good idea of what you actually want in the campaign and setting. For this reason, it is an excellent system if you want to influence the details of a setting or create one of your own, but if you just want to play a quick game without investing much time and thought into the campaign's parameters, gurps is probably not the best choice.

I would generally agree with this statement. If you limit yourself to a particular source book it might be easier to do a quick game. Although most that I've seen rarely have pre-defined enemies. Sometimes they do have monsters and animals already defined though, and character templates can help with speeding up character creation.

Lert, A.
2009-06-10, 01:36 PM
Yeah, it's best for crossing genres. Like, for example, the whole infinite worlds (I may not have that name exactly right) setting. It's one of the few game systems that could handle a bunch of wizards finding themselves on the Enterprise.

We actually did this when 4th edition first came out.

Unfortnately, the wizards did not know the power of Kirk.

- Allies(Minions) - waves of Red Shirts!
- Combat Reflexes, Enhanced Defenses, etc. advantages - at least he had them when his shirt was ripped
- Smooth Operator talent helped to boost Sex Appeal skill to rediculous levels

Ended up losing a few Red Shirts as a diversion to get into place so as to seduce a sorceress. When the chief wizard found out there was a duel, shirt was ripped and the gloves came off.

That was one fun campaign.

Surfing HalfOrc
2009-06-11, 09:49 AM
As has been said, one of the things about GURPS is that it does stick a fair amount of pressure and work on the DM. It's basically up to him to figure out what to allow and not allow in the game and it'd be a really good idea to explain that all to the players before any character creation starts. Unless you're doing an anything-goes parallel universe or comic-booky game in which cases you should just say "have at it!" and let them make whatever wacky characters they want.

Well, as GM for a bunch of 8-year-olds, I already have to do a lot of work... They're used to video games, and having characters and games already "ready to go" and not having to do a lot of the detail work itself.

I'm also giving a LOT of thought to using Labrynth Lord or Basic/Expert/Rules Cyclopedia rules, and keeping things simpler. I made fun of the Tom Moldvey/David Cook rules when they first came out, but have long since come to enjoy the simplicity of the rules when teaching people the basics. 3rd (and 4th now that I've played it) sometimes offer a few to many options for someone who just wants to jump in and start hacking and blasting away...

Cyrion
2009-06-11, 10:10 AM
I've also run a GURPS game (Renaissance Italy) for a long time and been in a couple of others, most notably a space opera Cliffhangers. I think that GURPS may be weakest at a Medieval swords and sorcery genre because of weakness in the magic system and that seems to be a balance point for combat.

In 3rd edition, wizards have very serious multiple attribute dependency syndrome: IQ for spells, ST for fatigue to be able to cast, DX for hitting with some and DX and HT for movement, getting initiative and surviving getting hit. I think they cleaned this up a little for 4e. Also, magic is somewhat more limited in nature than a traditional D&D player is going to be used to- much smaller areas on spells and spells are made accessible by learning prereqs instead of by level (which I actually like very much).

As others have said, choose your combat rules carefully. The issue I've run into is that fights can run for days of both combatants are skilled because both get to roll- once for the attacker to hit and once for the defender to defeat the attack. If both are good, the attacker will almost always hit and the defender will almost always defend. If the defender has done any turtling (very easy to do with PD and DR) you may end up doing relatively little damage and take forever to wear down your opponent.

Three specific suggestions:

1) Talk to your players about sinking a lot of their points into ability scores. This makes for a more broadly effective character, and it cuts down on the number of points they have left to worry about skills and makes character creation easier.

2) Take a few minutes and type out a list of what advantages, disadvantages and skills apply to your particular campaign and give this to your players. This will dramatically reduce the overload and "Can I have the stretching super power for this Old West campaign..."

3) If you allow feints in combat, rule that a successful feint applies a reduction to the defender's roll insted of the attacker's. Defenders will get hit more often and a single combat won't last the entire session.

Severus
2009-06-11, 10:42 AM
I've played a lot of GURPS.

Not that impressed really. It does a fairly good job of being flexible, but I think Hero does this better.

The problems I see with it are two fold.

1) It's too stat driven. Almost all skills have defaults off stats, and are driven by stats. the result is that optimal character design is to put all you points in key stats, and screw the rest. I don't like the way this plays out.

2) It's hard to balance encounters without a lot of experience in the system. There is no straightforward way to judge an encounter's difficulty. It makes GMing the system challenging.

I think Hero, as a generic system, answers both of these problems much better than GURPS.