View Full Version : Classes that should exist but don't

2006-03-04, 03:34 PM
My idea for this thread was for people who have made their own core or prestige classes to put them here, and for other people to comment upon them.

Prestige Class Idea – Shaggy from “Scooby-Doo”, a War Hulk of Dexterity

Master Escapist
Running away from fights is usually thought of as weak, but some characters have made running away into an art form. The best at getting away are usually called master escapists. They are the select few who constantly avoid attacks, who trick their slower opponents into traps and empty dead-ends, who can always escape!
Hit Die: d6

To qualify to become a master escapist, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Skills: Bluff 4 ranks, Disguise 4 ranks, Escape Artist 10 ranks
Feats: Dodge, Mobility, and Run

Class Skills
The master escapist’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex).
Skill Points at Each Level: 6 + Int modifier.

Leveling Table: The Master Escapist

Attack Fort Ref Will
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special

1st +0 +0 +2 +0 Curse of the Quick, Ability Boost (Dex +2)
2nd +0 +0 +3 +0 Evasion, Ability Boost (Dex +2)
3rd +0 +1 +3 +1 Fast Movement (+15 ft.), Ability Boost (Dex +2)
4th +0 +1 +4 +1 Uncanny Dodge, Ability Boost (Dex +2)
5th +0 +1 +4 +1 Escape Hole, Ability Boost (Dex +2)
6th +0 +2 +5 +2 Fast Movement (+30 ft.), Ability Boost (Dex +2)
7th +0 +2 +5 +2 Defensive Roll, Ability Boost (Dex +2)
8th +0 +2 +6 +2 Ability Boost (Dex +2)
9th +0 +3 +6 +3 Fast Movement (+45 ft.), Ability Boost (Dex +2)
10th +0 +3 +7 +3 Greater Escape Hole, Ability Boost (Dex +2)

Class Features
All the following are class features of the master escapist prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Master escapists gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.
Curse of the Quick (Ex): A character with levels in the master escapist prestige class is considered to have 0 ranks in all Strength-, Constitution-, and Wisdom-based skills (whether or not they have bought ranks in them previously). The only exception is the Profession skill, which works normally.
Ability Boost (Ex): As a master escapist gains levels in this prestige class, his Dexterity score increases as noted in Leveling Table: The Master Escapist. These increases stack.
Evasion (Ex): Usual
Fast Movement (Ex): At 3rd level and every 3 levels after, a master escapist gains an enhancement bonus to his base speed, as shown on Leveling Table: The Master Escapist. These bonuses do not stack. If a character also gains speed bonuses from another class, these bonuses do not stack, but the character takes the highest bonus available. A master escapist in armor or carrying a medium or heavy load does not gain the speed bonus.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Usual
Escape Hole (Su): At 5th level, the master escapist may as a standard action create a hole in reality roughly 5 ft.2 that acts as a dimensional door spell. The limitation is that the magical transport can only extend to 30 ft. The master escapist may create 3 of these escape holes per day, and each one is a two-way hole that stays in play for 1d4 rounds. During this time anyone may go through the escape hole, but if anyone but the master escapist goes through it they must succeed at a DC 15 Reflex save or be flat-footed for 1 round after going through the hole. A DC 20 Knowledge (any) check made before entering will alleviate the Reflex save. Also, if there is more then one set of escape holes within 50 ft. of each other, any person who enters an escape hole could end up at any other escape hole, decided by an appropriate die roll. This includes escape holes made by other master escapists.
Defensive Roll (Ex): At 7th level, the master escapist can roll with a potentially lethal blow to take less damage then he normally would. Once per day, if he would be reduced to 0 or less hit points, the master escapist can attempt to roll with the blow, but only if the damage was from a weapon or other blow, not from a spell or special ability. To use this ability, the master escapist must roll a Reflex saving throw with a DC equal to the damage dealt. If he succeeds, he only takes half the damage; if he fails he takes the full damage. He must be aware of the attack and able to react to it to be able to use this ability – if he is denied his Dexterity bonus to AC, this ability will not function. The Evasion ability does not apply to the defensive roll.
Improved Evasion (Ex): Usual
Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Usual
Greater Escape Hole (Su): At 10th level, the master escapist’s escape hole ability improves. Escape holes can now extend up to 60 ft., and the master escapist can now create 3 x his Charisma modifier escape holes per day. Also, the escape hole lasts for a number of rounds equal to or less then his master escapist level. The number of rounds is decided by the master escapist at the time that he creates the escape hole.

2006-03-04, 03:42 PM
Interesting...Rincewind must have taken a few levels of this prestige class. heck, you could rename it 'Wizzard' ;)

The Glyphstone
2006-03-04, 03:45 PM
Cool, but why penalize Strength-based skills? Climb, Jump, and Swim are all very important and useful for escaping in certain situations.

And reduction to 0 ranks seems a bit too harsh - why not just apply a penalty to all Con and Wis-based skills equal to their Master Escapist level?

Lastly, I'd recommend swapping Escape Hole and Uncanny Dodge, and moving Greater Escape Hole to 10th level - just so a character would have a reason to actually take that 10th level aside from the +2 Dex. The "capstone" power, you might call it.

2006-03-04, 03:49 PM
I tried to stay close to the Warhulk design (from the Minitures Handbook) so had to take away three things.

2006-03-04, 04:05 PM
Moneybags, that's some good ideas. I hope you don't mind if I edit it right now? *goes to modify*

2006-03-04, 05:43 PM
Gun Slinger



Hit Die


Class Skills

The Gun Slinger’s class skills and the key ability for each are: Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Craft (firearms only) (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex).

Skill Points at 1st Level

(6 + Int modifier) x 4

Skill Points at Each Additional Level

6 + Int modifier

Table: The GunSlinger
{table]Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special
1st +0 +0 +2 +0 Point Blank Shot
2nd +1 +0 +3 +0 Evasion
3rd +2 +1 +3 +1 Rapid Reload, Mounted Combat
4th +3 +1 +4 +1 Greater Reload
5th +3 +1 +4 +1 Uncanny Dodge
6th +4 +2 +5 +2 Dual Wield
7th +5 +2 +5 +2 Rapid Reload
8th +6/+1 +2 +6 +2 Sharp Shooter, Greater Reload
9th +6/+1 +3 +6 +3 Improved Uncanny Dodge
10th +7/+2 +3 +7 +3 Rapid Reload
11th +8/+3 +3 +7 +3 Improved Evasion
12th +9/+4 +4 +8 +4 Greater Dual Wield, Greater Reload
13th +9/+4 +4 +8 +4 Rapid Reload
14th +10/+5 +4 +9 +4
15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +9 +5 Quick Draw
16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +5 Rapid Reload
17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +5
18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +6
19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +6 Mighty Dual Wield
20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +6

Class Features

All of the following are class features of the GunSlinger.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency

A GunSlinger is proficient with revolvers, bolt rifles, busters and light armor but not shields.

Point Blank Shot

At first level, a GunSlinger gets Point Blank shot as a bonus feat.

Evasion (Ex)

At 2nd level and higher, a GunSlinger can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the GunSlinger is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless GunSlinger does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Rapid Reload

At 3rd, 7th, 10th, 13th, and 16th level, a GunSlinger gains a variant version of rapid reload. This only applies to fire arms. The reload time that was previously a full round action becomes a move action and a move action becomes a free action. This feat cannot be added to a weapon whose reload time is a free action. This feat may be used to reduce a full round reload to a free reload if taken twice for the same weapon.

Mounted Combat

At 3rd level, a GunSlinger gains the Mounted Combat feat as a bonus feat.

Greater Reload (Ex)

At 4th, 8th, and 12th level, a GunSlinger selects a type of firearm. That firearm no longer provokes an attack of opportunity when it is being reloaded.

Uncanny Dodge

Starting at 5th level, a gunslinger can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if she is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, she still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.

If a gunslinger already has uncanny dodge from a different class she automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead.

Dual Wield (Ex)

At 6th level, a gunslinger gains the ability to use 2 guns at the same time with little or no penalty, but they must be the same type of gun. When using a full attack action, they may fire the maximum amount of bullets with both guns (determined by reload times, base attack bonus and bullets available), when making a standard attack, they may fire 1 shot from both guns. When wielding revolvers, a gunslinger incurs no penalties on attack rolls, but he must attack foes in the same direction. When wielding bolt rifles, a gunslinger gets a –2 penalty on all attack rolls. When wielding busters, a gunslinger gets a –4 penalty on attack rolls. When dual wielding, assume that a gunslinger is able to reload their weapons, even with both hand full.

Sharpshooter (Ex)

At 8th level, a gunslinger may add their Dexterity bonus to their damage rolls. Also, they may attack specific parts of a creature with out penalty, but doing so takes a full round action.

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex)

At 9th level, a gunslinger can no longer be flanked. A character needs 4 more levels in a class that grants sneak attack than the player to sneak attack the player.

Improved Evasion (Ex)

This ability works like evasion, except that while the gun slinger still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks henceforth she henceforth takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless gunslinger does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.

Greater Dual Wield (Ex)

At 12th level, a gunslingers’ dual wielding ability increases. Revolvers can be fired in any direction, rifles take no penalty but must be fired in the same direction, busters get a –2 penalty to attack rolls.

Quick Draw (Ex)

At 15th level, a gunslinger gains a +4 bonus on initiative checks. Furthermore, if they win initiative in a surprise round, they may make 2 full round actions (or 2 standard actions and 2 move actions) before anyone else gets a turn. This ability only works in the surprise round.

Mighty Dual Wield (Ex)

A gunslinger can mix and match weapons and use them to the best of their ability. A gunslinger takes no attack penalty, can attack the maximum amount of times with each weapon and may fire them in any direction.




Hit Die


Class Skills

The class skill for a death seeker and the key abilities for each are: Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Disable Device (Int), Heal (Wis), Jump (Str), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Survival (Wis) and Swim (Str).

Skill Points at 1st Level

(4 + Int modifier) x 4

Skill Points at Each Additional Level

4 + Int modifier

Table: The Death Seeker
{table][/table]Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special
1st +1 +2 +0 +2 Cruel Damage 1/day
2nd +2 +3 +0 +3 Toughness
3rd +3 +3 +1 +3 -
4th +4 +4 +1 +4 Cruel Damage 2/day, Toughness
5th +5 +4 +1 +4 Improved Cruel Damage
6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +5 Toughness
7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +5 Cruel Damage 3/day
8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +6 Toughness
9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +6 -
10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +7 Cruel Damage 4/day, Toughness
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +7 Greater Cruel Damage
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +8 Toughness
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +8 Cruel Damage 5/day
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +9 Toughness
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +9 Fast Healing 5
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +10 Cruel Damage 6/day, Toughness
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Mighty Cruel Damage
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Toughness
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Cruel Damage 7/day
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Toughness, Necromancy Reduction

Class Feature

All of the following are class feature of the Death Seeker.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency

A death seeker is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, all armors and all shield, including tower.

Cruel Damage (Su)

A death seeker has the ability to inflict damage upon him self in order to damage his foes. A death seeker may reduce his hit points to half their current amount as a full round action that does not provoke an attack of opprotunity. On his next turn, he may make a ranged touch attack against one of his opponents within 50ft, if it is successful, the opponent takes the same amount of damage the death seeker inflicted upon himself. There is no saving throw. A death seeker may not use this attack in negative hit points.

This attack bypasses all forms of damage reduction, resistance or spell resistance. This attack has no miss chance against incorporeal creatures and deals normal damage to them.

This attack is usable once per day at first level and every 3 levels after that (4th, 7th, 10th etc.).


At 2nd level and every two levels thereafter, a death seeker gets the toughness feat as a bonus feat.

Improved Cruel Damage (Su)

This funtions just like cruel damage except that it automatically hits a visible opponent, no touch attack necessary and range is increased to 100ft.

Greater Cruel Damage (Su)

This functions just as improved cruel damage only a death seeker may reduce his life points by either ¼ or ½ (player’s choice) and the damage dealt to the opponent is double what the death seeker dealt to him self and range is increased to 150ft.

Fast Healing 5 (Ex)

At 15th level, a death seeker gets the benefits of fast healing 5, but this only heals damage the death seeker inflicts upon himself through his cruel damage attack.

Might Cruel Damage (Su)

This functions just as greater cruel damage only a death seeker may reduce his hit point by ¾, ½ or ¼ (player’s choice) and damage dealt to the opponent is triple what the death seeker inflicted upon himself.

The death seeker may also use this ability to damage as many opponents as he has HD, but when used this way, the opponents take the same amount of damage the death seeker inflicted upon himself.

The range is increased to 200ft.

Necromancy Reduction (Su)

At 20th level, a death seeker takes only half damage from necromancy spells. This applies to ability damage as well. Spells that kill outright reduce the death seeker’s hp by half.

2006-03-04, 06:21 PM
The Gunslinger sounds great, but is it a Modern charachter, or from the regular setting? If it's from Modern, it seems a little over-powered. If it's from regular, then where does he get guns from?

That other one sounds scary (Deathseeker)

2006-03-04, 06:24 PM
both of those are from my homebrew. Gunpowder was recently discovered and they made guns. However, the gunpowder is still unstable so the guns explode every now and then if you try to use them. yeah death seeker is a bit spooky, but a tank if there ever was one.

2006-03-04, 06:31 PM
For the Deathseeker's Cruel Damage, is it negative energy? Could you for example heal undead with it? Also, no save sounds kind of harsh.

2006-03-04, 06:37 PM
I meant it to be damage that just was, it was pain in its purest form. Yeah, a save should be added, but it should be a rather difficult save otherwise the PC is out alot of Hp with no results, or maybe save for half damage? any ideas?

The Glyphstone
2006-03-04, 06:47 PM
Agreed, it should be a Fortitude save for Half at least - that's basically a YOU DIE spell. A Deathseeker 20 with a good Constitution score (say, 16+4 level boosts+5 nifty book of stats+6 amulet of health = 360 Hp. He can deal himself 75 damage, rapidly recoverable and not at all dangerous, and nuke some poor enemy for an automatic 225 damage with no attack roll and no saving throw.

Or, he could go for broke and spend 300 HP, dealing 300 damage to 20 different opponents...encounter's over. He's at 60, but there's probably nothing left out there - what kind of DM would throw more than 20 enemies at a party all with 300+ HP?

Say he's fighting the Tarrasque - he WINS in 1 ROUND (assuming he has a handy wizard nearby to cast Wish on the thing). Burn 300 HP, it takes 900 damage...it's only got 858 HP to begin with.

Necromancy Reduction, granting effective immunity to instant death, is just icing on the cake. This character could easily fight encounters of his CR without a party to back him up - he doesn't even need items (except for that amulet and book), so he can buy tons of healing potions and protective items. Or pair him with a Cleric...the two of them can fight basically anything without a problem - especially when the cleric gets higher level spells like Heal. This qualifies it as overpowered, in my opinion.

2006-03-04, 06:52 PM
Good point. Being able to kill a Terrasque in one attack is a bit overpowered. Perhaps this is where the save comes in?

2006-03-04, 06:56 PM
I have actually read a description of a fantasy Gunslinger type prestige class in here. It was called "Boltborn" IIRC. Specialized in wielding two (light? hand?) crossbows.

I don't have classes for these, but I'd like to see a class for specialising in e.g. Reach weapons.
It would also be interesting to have a 5-level PrC for thrown weapons, but I don't think they warrant a full PrC of their own.

It seems there are some PrC (Dread Pirate, Thief-Acrobat) that allow one to drop down as part of a charge. (http://boards1.wizards.com/archive/index.php/t-391983.html)
I'm not familiar with either, but it could be cool in so many different ways - flying, a flying mount, some jump-enchancing magic might actually be useful, climbing as in the tread, halfling catapult assault team... It'd also be great if a Wizard's familiar could benefit from the ability (Death From Above!).

2006-03-04, 06:56 PM
hmm, good in concept and not in reality. so fort save DC 10 +death seeker's con modifier +death seeker class levels? Move the no attack roll to later levels as well or remove that feature all together.

The gunslinger is a bit of a close range, quick draw type. any ideas on how to make it more sniper oriented?

2006-03-04, 07:33 PM
Interesting...Rincewind must have taken a few levels of this prestige class. heck, you could rename it 'Wizzard' ;)

Lol. EXACTLY what I was going to post after reading that. :)

Sounds like a fun (if weird) class to play.

The Glyphstone
2006-03-04, 07:42 PM
hmm, good in concept and not in reality. so fort save DC 10 +death seeker's con modifier +death seeker class levels? Move the no attack roll to later levels as well or remove that feature all together.

The default is 10+1/2 HD (so, 1/2 class level)+ability score (Con Modifier). Remove the autohit, as well as the auto damage against ethereal opponents - there's not really any reason - since most Ethereal enemies are also undead, they'd probably be less affected by pain.

Finally, consider changing Cruel Damage in general - say, choosing how many D12's to roll, no more than he has HD, and dealing that much damage to an opponent. Greater and Might Cruel Damage could multiply it by x2 and x3 respectively. That way, he has less control over the exact damage, but has much more control over the general damage - good if, say, the DM throws a bunch of waves of Kobolds or other weak monsters at him over and over...that's going to be mighty overkill at first, and severely weaken him when the big baddy rolls out.

2006-03-06, 11:31 AM
I like the Master escapist :). It would be a great class as a party's backup support - If all goes to hell, Run away, and come back to save the rest later!

2006-03-06, 12:22 PM
Hit dice: d6
Attack Progression: As cleric
Save Progression: As monk
Skill Points: 8+Int
Skill Choices: All
Feats and special abilities: Double number of feats (2 at 1st, 2 at 3rd, 2 at 6th, etc.). Does not apply to the extra racial feats (such as those given to humans - ie, a human Mundane gets the normal 1 racial feat, not 2).
Weapon and Armor: Simple Weapons, No Armor or Shield Proficiency
Spells: None
Alignment/Race limitations: None

What I like about the above class is that it has allowed me to create skilled NPCs in important positions who have a lot of ability, but the class hasn't been worthwhile enough for adventurers to take it. Out of about 30 characters made for my games, only one has been a Mundane and he quickly began to struggle with the desire for combat abilities granted to other classes. That tells me it can't be too overpowered and since it does what I want it to do (which is give me decent Experts), I'm happy with it.

2006-03-06, 12:44 PM
Re deathseeker:

It reminds me of the Dark Knight dressphere(class) from FFX-2. Ubertank that spends hp to put on mad hurt. I like the idea of modifying it to allow control over damage dice, and do think it should increase in multiplier as levels are gained. You can simply say the energy released is raw destructive power (as per Ruin epic seed, ELHB) and is thus not limited by damage reduction, but the ability you've created needs a save. Otherwise, WAY COOL.

Anyone feel up to making a class based on Dark Tower-series gunslingers?

2006-03-06, 12:53 PM
The Unadventurous Cleric

Hit dice: d6 at 1st level, none thereafter
Attack Progression: none
Save Progression: as Expert
Weapons: Simple
Armour & Shields: None
Class Skills: Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.
Spells per day: as cleric

The Unadventurous Cleric tends her flock, sees to the sick, preaches right-living to her parishoners. She doesn't fight. She gets skill points and spells as she practices her Profession (Priest) and gains XP for this class equal to her GP gain from her profession.

Not a player class.

Similarly, we can use this same trick on Experts, Aristocrats, and Commoners - improvement through Profession, with no combat improvement. Why should a farmer get better as a farmer because he has to fight goblins regularly? Surely that should make him worse at farming - maybe he'll be a better fighter, but not a better commoner.

2006-03-07, 12:40 AM
I like the Master escapist :). It would be a great class as a party's backup support - If all goes to hell, Run away, and come back to save the rest later!

That's partly the reason why I gave him Escape Hole. It lets him bring a few people through. The other reason I gave it to him was that Shaggy was always warping somehow from door to door, and I wanted to answer that problem with a D&D charachter.

My only problem with it is that it can be used to fight rather well, which is not his original purpose.

2006-03-07, 01:26 AM
gun slinger is perfect for my ongoing campaign where guns are left over technology form the legendary and now mysteriously abscent Dwarves! Props to u!