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Ghostwheel
2009-06-07, 09:59 PM
I am trying to create a character build that has the following features, with the first being primary.

1. Able to act effectively in almost any circumstance, including
a. Social
b. Melee combat
c. Ranged combat
d. Travel and recovery time

2. No more than -2 away from full BAB at 13th level (which is where I'd start)

3. Doesn't need to fulfill any of the 4 primary party roles (covered by the other players)

4. Not a Bard

5. Essential feats (to me) for any fighting build are: Combat Reflexes, Quick Draw and Improved Critical

My initial thought is to go with the Urban Ranger from Unearthed Arcana with a couple of Rogue levels. This would give me mad skill points in a wide variety of class skills.

A possible PRC would be Tempest from Complete Adventurer, if I went with TW fighting. But I think that would force the build to take a a couple levels in Fighter and/or be human to have enough feats considering 5 above (I don't mind doing either, but some builds will work better without those constraints). I haven't considered a PRC for an archery-oriented build; mainly because most of the applicable ones are more appropriate to a standard Ranger, which would lose some of the in-city skills that the urban variant has. Others might have a different insight.

One problem that I realize is inherent in the above is the poor Will saves this character will have.

A couple of final points. I don't play evil characters. The ability scores haven't been generated, but the method used should result in all being 10+ for the base 1st level, with appropriate advances. I have all of the core books available, as well as each of the Races of...., Unearthed Arcana (but only for the Ranger variant), PHB II, and the Complete.... (class type) series. Other books might be available, but I would have to check.

I am soliciting opinions about race/class/feat/skill combos that keep me "in the game" as much as possible.

Thank you in advance for any advice and suggestions.

Flickerdart
2009-06-07, 10:02 PM
Factotum 13 is perfect for you, or perhaps some sort of Chameleon build. You do not actually want any melee classes that much...it's impossible to be effective at so many things at once unless you're a Cleric.

A Cloistered Cleric is also a good idea, spells fix all your faults.

Faleldir
2009-06-07, 10:04 PM
If you want Ranger and Tempest levels, I would suggest Scout instead of Rogue; much more synergy.
For class skills, just take Able Learner at 1st level.

quick_comment
2009-06-07, 10:06 PM
Sorcerer with abjurant champion

A) Social: Sorcs have high charisma, access to charm person.
B) Melee: Polymorph into melee brute.
C) Ranged: Scorching Ray/Enervation
D) Travel: Teleport
E) Recovery Time: Well, with casters its 8 hours (4 with fortifying bedroll)

Ghostwheel
2009-06-07, 10:13 PM
Factotum 13 is perfect for you, or perhaps some sort of Chameleon build. You do not actually want any melee classes that much...it's impossible to be effective at so many things at once unless you're a Cleric.

A Cloistered Cleric is also a good idea, spells fix all your faults.

I have no idea of what a Factorum is. Which book is that from? And what do you mean by a "chameleon" build?

I do not share the opinion that not having a plethora of powerful spells is a fault.

Flickerdart
2009-06-07, 10:15 PM
I have no idea of what a Factorum is. Which book is that from? And what do you mean by a "chameleon" build?

I do not share the opinion that not having a plethora of powerful spells is a fault.
Factotum is a base class from Dungeonscape, and specializes in doing everything better than you.
Chameleon is a prestige class from Races of Destiny, I believe, that wakes up a new character class if he wants to.

And a plethora of powerful spells certainly makes everything easier. A Fighter needs all his feats to do one thing well...four things are beyond him. But spells, even a Bard's spells or Psychic Warrior's powers, make such things possible.

Ghostwheel
2009-06-07, 10:20 PM
If you want Ranger and Tempest levels, I would suggest Scout instead of Rogue; much more synergy.
For class skills, just take Able Learner at 1st level.

Will Scout work well with Urban Ranger? Especially since I was looking at Rogue to provide a variety of social skills, not just stealth capabilities.

Faleldir
2009-06-07, 10:25 PM
Classes are whatever you want them to be; why play a Samurai when you can play a Knight?
Able Learner gives you all skills as class skills, forever, including social skills and UMD.

Ghostwheel
2009-06-07, 10:31 PM
Factotum is a base class from Dungeonscape, and specializes in doing everything better than you.

That is a book I am unfamiliar with, but I will look into it.

Chameleon is a prestige class from Races of Destiny, I believe, that wakes up a new character class if he wants to.

I don't need that kind of bookkeeping headache. Thanks anyway!:smallbiggrin:

And a plethora of powerful spells certainly makes everything easier. A Fighter needs all his feats to do one thing well...four things are beyond him. But spells, even a Bard's spells or Psychic Warrior's powers, make such things possible.

I know that a Ranger (or in this case, the variant) is only a 1/4 caster, but I did mention that the party that I will be joining already has the primary caster roles covered. I guess that I am looking for using a combination of fighting and skills more than spells to contribute.

Flickerdart
2009-06-07, 10:34 PM
Your party mage will not like being asked to waste his spells buffing you. It is much better if you can do that yourself.

Chameleon isn't that bad for book keeping...take a look (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041210b).

Ghostwheel
2009-06-07, 10:50 PM
Your party mage will not like being asked to waste his spells buffing you. It is much better if you can do that yourself.

Chameleon isn't that bad for book keeping...take a look (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041210b).

Much like a Bard, that seems to be somewhat gimped in every area. And I can foresee a lot of "stop play whilst I prepare spells." That is not conducive to being able to take action under as many circumstances as possible, which is my goal.

So I guess that I should amend my initial post with a #6.

6. Without having to read the mind of the DM as to what a given day's trials will entail.

Gaiyamato
2009-06-07, 10:57 PM
Sorcerer with prc of your choice.

A) Social: Sorcs have high charisma, access to charm person.
B) Melee: Polymorph into melee brute.
C) Ranged: Scorching Ray/Enervation
D) Travel: Teleport
E) Recovery Time: Well, with casters its 8 hours (4 with fortifying bedroll)

Stalwart sorcerer + Battle Sorcerer = Cast in light Armor, Two extra weapon proficiencies + Weapon Focus in one chosen weapon.
Add Battle Caster and you can wear medium armor without arcane failure, cast spells spontaneously and wield a weapon with some degree of effectiveness all at level 1. :)
Take Somatic Weapon so you can cast while using your hands.
Arcane Disciple Makes you WIS based and gives you some extra spells from a Domain of your choice.

Human with Able Learner. I'd go with a Dex/Wis Fighter and multiclass appropriately.

So I'd Go (though it is a little scattered with the sorcerer):


Level 1: Battle Sorcerer 1 - Stalwart Sorcerer - metamagic specialist
Human: Able Learner
Sorcerer: Weapon Focus (Scimitar)
Level 1: Somatic Weapon
Flaw: Combat Casting
Flaw: Versatile spellcaster
Level 2: Sorcerer 1
Level 3: Sorcerer 2
Level 3: Arcane Disciple(War Domain)
Level 4: Swordsage 1
Level 5: Swordsage 2
Level 6: Jade Pheonix Mage 1
Level 6: Enlarge spell
Level 7: Jade Phenonix Mage 2
Level 8: Magical Trickster 1
Level 9: Magical Trickster 2
MT: Widen Spell
Level 9: Practised spellcaster (Sorcerer)
Level 10:War Weaver 1
Level 11:War Weaver 2
Level 12:War Weaver 3
Level 12: Holy Warrior
Level 13:War Weaver 4

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-07, 10:58 PM
Much like a Bard, that seems to be somewhat gimped in every area. And I can foresee a lot of "stop play whilst I prepare spells." That is not conducive to being able to take action under as many circumstances as possible, which is my goal.You should never be choosing spells during a session. You need to have a basic spell list prepared, as well as a list of all spells you think could be useful, with their basic effects listed, for situations where you need to swap out one or two. And the class isn't 'gimped', it's able to do anything competently. If you want to do everything, you have to give up the idea you'll be as good as a character that specialized in that. Although you may want to check out the Warlock from CArc. It's got decent ranged attacks, Eldrich Glaive gives you melee, a good skill list including excellent UMD, and short-range teleports and flying. And all of that can be done 24/7, 365.

Of course, I once had ~20 pages of info for a 6th level character(Malconvoker with both the SM and SU lines), so I'm a bit over-prepared.

Origomar
2009-06-07, 11:05 PM
I am trying to create a character build that has the following features, with the first being primary.

1. Able to act effectively in almost any circumstance, including
a. Social
b. Melee combat
c. Ranged combat
d. Travel and recovery time

2. No more than -2 away from full BAB at 13th level (which is where I'd start)

3. Doesn't need to fulfill any of the 4 primary party roles (covered by the other players)

4. Not a Bard

5. Essential feats (to me) for any fighting build are: Combat Reflexes, Quick Draw and Improved Critical

My initial thought is to go with the Urban Ranger from Unearthed Arcana with a couple of Rogue levels. This would give me mad skill points in a wide variety of class skills.

A possible PRC would be Tempest from Complete Adventurer, if I went with TW fighting. But I think that would force the build to take a a couple levels in Fighter and/or be human to have enough feats considering 5 above (I don't mind doing either, but some builds will work better without those constraints). I haven't considered a PRC for an archery-oriented build; mainly because most of the applicable ones are more appropriate to a standard Ranger, which would lose some of the in-city skills that the urban variant has. Others might have a different insight.

One problem that I realize is inherent in the above is the poor Will saves this character will have.

A couple of final points. I don't play evil characters. The ability scores haven't been generated, but the method used should result in all being 10+ for the base 1st level, with appropriate advances. I have all of the core books available, as well as each of the Races of...., Unearthed Arcana (but only for the Ranger variant), PHB II, and the Complete.... (class type) series. Other books might be available, but I would have to check.

I am soliciting opinions about race/class/feat/skill combos that keep me "in the game" as much as possible.

Thank you in advance for any advice and suggestions.

i was thinking of trying to make an urban ranger but im not very experienced and dont really know exacly how multiclassing effectively works.

nightwyrm
2009-06-07, 11:11 PM
Druid?

Social might be tough, but you can have your animal companion do tricks to entertain people. lol.

Eldariel
2009-06-07, 11:20 PM
Druid?

Social might be tough, but you can have your animal companion do tricks to entertain people. lol.

They have Diplomacy in class. They can also afford points in Charisma. Really, Druid is the best all-rounder; with some work, you can get Bluff, Intimidate and Sense Motive in class and do everything alone. Then you can play "I walk alone" as your theme song.

Ghostwheel
2009-06-07, 11:25 PM
i was thinking of trying to make an urban ranger but im not very experienced and dont really know exacly how multiclassing effectively works.

So far, I think that you are the only responder that read whole of the original post.

I did mention no more than -2 from full BAB. I did not mention replacing fighting ability with polymorph or replacing skills with charms. I guess that I need to add #7.

7. No full casters need apply.

Ghostwheel
2009-06-07, 11:27 PM
Druid?

Social might be tough, but you can have your animal companion do tricks to entertain people. lol.

Not so good in cities. Also, see above.

Ghostwheel
2009-06-07, 11:29 PM
They have Diplomacy in class. They can also afford points in Charisma. Really, Druid is the best all-rounder; with some work, you can get Bluff, Intimidate and Sense Motive in class and do everything alone. Then you can play "I walk alone" as your theme song.

That is not my style, and see above.

Eldariel
2009-06-07, 11:37 PM
That is not my style, and see above.

Then be a straight Human Barbarian with huge Str, huge Dex, decent Con and rest in Cha (bleh, I guess you need some Int too for skillpoints - sucks to want to be awesome at evrithing but I guess you can afford it). Make social encounters moot with your manliness, make combat moot with your manliness, pack a bow with varying Str to shoot people in the eyes twice a round, pack a really, really big sword to match your other assets and you've got all you asked for.

Two levels of Ranger (Urban Ranger if you so will) buys you Rapid Shot. Whirling Frenzy and Rapid Shot is really all you can ask for in terms of being efficient at range while also being efficient at everything else (especially if you want to do it without magic, as seems to be the case). Able Learner keeps everything in class for you. Martial Rogue would also grant you more social skills and some combat feats. Starting with a level of that would buy epic skillpoints.


If magic is ok for you, be a straight Cloistered Cleric with Trickery and maybe Dragon-domains, persist Divine Power to get full BAB, Zen Archery to shoot things and go to town.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-08, 12:03 AM
So far, I think that you are the only responder that read whole of the original post.

I did mention no more than -2 from full BAB.Full BAB is overrated. Yes, 3 attacks is good, but by that point, you're either using precision damage or Power Attacking. Precision means partial BAB without certain work arounds, while Power Attack means that 3rd attack isn't hitting anyways.
I did not mention replacing fighting ability with polymorph or replacing skills with charms. I guess that I need to add #7.

7. No full casters need apply.Spells are the only way to be versatile in 3.x without taking a class designed for it.
1:
Melee: common, easy to get.
Ranged: either spells, Cleric/Artificer Archer, Warlock, Manyshot Rogue, Factotum, or Swift Hunter/Ambusher. All others are gimped.
Social: Either Charm spells or skill points. If you don't want charm spells, that leaves you with skills, meaning Rogue, Factotum, Warlock, Swift Ambusher, or Spellcaster is the only archer that works.
Travel: You either cast, meaning Fly and Teleport, or you don't.
Recovery time: You either cast(or UMD), meaning you have Rope Trick or Wands of Lesser Vigor, or you don't.

At this point you're either a caster, Warlock, Factotum, or a Rogue(or Daring Outlaw/Swift Ambusher).

2: No more than 2 BAB lost. As I said, this is a bad requirement from a power perspective, especially since you never mention whether or not you use fractional BAB, but if you must, you can use a Daring Outlaw build(Rogue/Swashbuckler) to do it.

3: As a precision-based build with lots of skills at this point(unless you cast or are a Warlock), you are sort-of filling the role of the party trapmonkey/glass cannon, but if you 2 divvy up the skills(I always do this if there are 2 skillmonkeys, no need for both of you to pay the skill tax on Search/DD), there shouldn't be a problem, especially if you use different methods of breaking through crit-immunity. This isn't an issue if you're a caster.

4: Not a Bard, but why the hate? The class is only bad if poorly-built, and only dumb if poorly role-played.

5: Those feats aren't really necessary, and you're feat-starved at this point. Reflexes is only good if you wield a reach weapon(which you can't finesse, meaning MAD), Crit doesn't multiply your bonus damage(which is your only damage), and though Quick Draw has uses you can draw a weapon as long as you move anyways. A Daring Outlaw(or any class without bonus feats) who wants to melee and fight at range is going to need every feat just to be halfway effective(Warlocks can afford some of these, but other than reflexes don't benefit from them anyways).

6: Would you prefer to read it a day in advance or several levels? Every class requires predicting what's going to happen to some degree, though spellcasters have it easier than some others(due to one day warning, the 15 minute rule for Wizards, and the versatility of spells). Daring Outlaw is fine, especially if you use UMD and Cash, getting you access to ways around Plants, Constructs, and Undead, but Elementals and Oozes just laugh, as do swarms, and the ways around the other 3 are somewhat limited.

7: This eliminates the best archers and melee classes in the game, as well as some of the most versatile classes overall, but sure.

So, the only build that meets your requirements is a Daring Outlaw, meaning Rogue/Swashbuckler, and it requires a bit of contortions. A Factotum gets everything but the BAB, a Swift Hunter gets everything but the skills, a Warlock gets everything but may qualify as a Caster, and a full-caster gets everything but point 7.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-06-08, 12:26 AM
Here are a few options:

Gray Elf, Beguiler 5/ Mindbender 1/ Beguiler 14. An extremely fun class to play, and superb in a city-based game. Undead and Constructs are the only opponents who may give this character any trouble, otherwise he's always got something useful to do regardless of the situation. It doesn't meet criteria 1b, 2, or 5, but you're probably giving those things too much credit. Sometimes it's best to get out of your comfort zone and play a different type of character, not just an "I'll full attack again."

Kobold Cloistered Cleric 20, secretly worships Vecna, formerly of Kurtulmak. Kobold (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) and Trickery domains, Whispered Secrets feat from Races of Destiny. Divine Metamagic: Persistent Divine Power fixes any BAB issues, typical CoDzilla with a lot of skill points and decent class skills. Switch out Kobold race/domain for something else if you want, its mostly there to fill a trapmonkey role if necessary. The Travel domain is always a good choice, others include Destiny, Luck, Time, and even Celerity due to your limited armor proficiencies.

Human or Illumian (Naenhoon), Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 4/ Spellsword 1/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist 8, with Able Learner it fits all of your criteria. With Illumian you can even get Persistent Spell at 12 and at level 13 use turn attempts to Persist two buffs, such as Draconic Polymorph: War Troll and Draconic Might. It only loses out on two levels of spellcasting and four points of BAB by level 20. You can wear Mithral Breastplate or +1 Twilight Mithral Full Plate with a Thistledown Suit with a 0% chance of arcane spell failure. With Abjurant Champion your Shield spell will grant a +9 AC bonus, just as good as a +5 Tower Shield but free. Use a decent two-handed reach weapon with Power Attack and Arcane Strike and Wraithstrike, and wear armor spikes to still threaten adjacent squares. Get a few Lesser Rods of Extend for low-level buffs like Bull's Strength and Wraithstrike, and keep in mind that if a spell's normal casting time is not a standard action or longer it doesn't take any longer to spontaneously cast with metamagic. Forget about Improved Critical unless it's houseruled to stack with a Keen weapon or if you're using a Falchion or other 18-20 weapon, because otherwise it's a wasted feat.

Human, Wild Shape Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger) 5/ Nature's Warrior 1/ Master of Many Forms 7/ Warshaper 4/ MoMF 3. Get Combat Reflexes, Power Attack, Alertness, Leap Attack, Frozen Wild Shape, Robilar's Gambit, Multiattack, and Defensive Sweep. Get a Monk's Belt with a Wilding Clasp, Gloves of Dex + Wilding Clasp, and maybe some 1st level Pearls of Power. The only Ranger spell you should ever prepare is Rhino's Rush. From the start you can Wild Shape into a Cave Troll or War Troll (MM3) or a 12-headed Cryohydra, making you a superior melee combatant to anything else in this thread except maybe a build with Polymorph. All of a Cave/War Troll's special qualities are extraordinary, so you'll gain their Fast Healing, Regeneration, SR, DR/Adamantine, etc. when in those forms. In Cryohydra form with Robilar's Gambit you'll get to make a 12-bite AoO every time you're attacked, plus you'll have Fast Healing 22. Wild Shape makes you extremely versatile, there's a form for almost any situation (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=639448).

Emy
2009-06-08, 01:08 AM
What about a Factotum/Duskblade/Chameleon?

Either Factotum 3/Duskblade 3/Chameleon 7 (for brains over brawn. also has enough chameleon levels for Double Aptitude)

or Factotum 1/Duskblade 3/Cloistered Cleric 1/Chameleon 8 for a couple extra feats and Rapid Refocus.

An Able Learner Factotum can certainly make good use of Quick Draw; are you really certain you want Improved Critical though?

Obviously, this build doesn't fulfill requirement 2, but channeled spells more than makes up for it, in my opinion.

Here's the closest I can come to creating a build that fulfills all of your requirements:
Factotum 4/Duskblade 1/Unseen Seer 4/Abjurant Champion 4

feats:
flaw: combat expertise
human: able learner
1: quick draw
3: combat casting
6: improved critical
9: combat reflexes
12: improved trip

Int > Con > Cha > Dex > Str > Wis, some minor spellcasting, 11 BAB, Int is added to str and dex checks (such as tripping), every skill is a class skill forever, 8 levels of 6+int skill points, 5 levels of 2+int sp (ick), can spend inspiration to get 1d6 sneak attack (unseen seer adds another 2d6 to that). The Duskblade spell deflect qualifies for Abjurant Armor, so it adds a much better amount to your armor than normal. Quick Draw works well with Iaijutsu Focus from Oriental Adventures as a class skill.

Though it may be that I'm remembering precise PrC requirements wrong, and that Duskblade cannot qualify for Unseen Seer due to its very limited spell list. If so, shoehorn in Practiced Spellcaster, move the Duskblade level to 3, and add a very dubious use of Extra Spell.

Oh, also, your requirements are silly.

edit: I just realized he's looking for a jack of all trades type build, while dismissing chameleon as "somewhat gimped in every area". Simply amazing.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-08, 01:29 AM
Much like a Bard, that seems to be somewhat gimped in every area. And I can foresee a lot of "stop play whilst I prepare spells." That is not conducive to being able to take action under as many circumstances as possible, which is my goal.


Oh really? (http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=26201)

FMArthur
2009-06-08, 02:28 AM
Straight Factotum is quite good if you're okay with being an unmatched skillmonkey who can perform adequately in other areas, but the Chameleon prestige class is a natural extension of your abilities as a Factotum. And I assure you, nothing you do as a Chameleon is "gimped"; being too good is often a concern with using the class in some campaigns. It's unheard of for a Chameleon to be too weak.

Factotum 5/Chameleon 8 basically lets you do anything. At all. It takes as much or as little preparation as you like (you can choose not to use one or both of the spellcasting Aptitude Foci), lets you customize daily, and as a result it is never too difficult to manage. If you're worried about your attack bonus, remember that one of the Aptitude Foci is specifically made to boost it (Combat Focus).

Doc Roc
2009-06-08, 02:32 AM
I know a few things, very few. One of them is that chameleon is about as far from gimped as you can get this side of a Tier Limit(0) class like archivist or artificer, or something like incantatrix.

It's a very powerful, very elegant class that is one of the few examples of truly good game design in DnD.
I consider it probably one of the five most underused PrCs in the game.


That said, I also really enjoy nearly straight barbarian, as it grants some really interesting and fun RP options as well as a tremendously high overall damage output and the ability to deal cogently with traps. I worry, however, that you have your heart set on a very specific character that simply may not exist in the rules-set without kungfu you would find unacceptable.

I can build you almost anything you want. Will you, however, play it?

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-08, 02:40 AM
I am trying to create a character build that has the following features, with the first being primary.

1. Able to act effectively in almost any circumstance, including
a. Social
b. Melee combat
c. Ranged combat
d. Travel and recovery time


a. Barbarian uses his muscles to persuade people and seduce the ladies.

b. Barbarian uses his muscles to hit people where it hurts.

c. See above.

d. Barbarian dips in Ranger, goes into Horizonwalker, dimension doors every 1d4 rounds whilst being immune to fatuige.


I can build you almost anything you want. Will you, however, play it?
He'll never learn anything if he doesn't do it himself.


To OP:
You can ask for help. You can be rude. You cannot do both.

We are trying to help. Be grateful. Your attitude does not endear you and makes it less likely for people to help you.

J.Gellert
2009-06-08, 04:00 AM
+1 for Sorcerer/Gish.

Alternatively, you can simply be a bard, because that's exactly their selling point. Of course singing may not be your cup of tea... And with the right prestige classes, you can build a gish that has better BAB than the bard, more skills than the bard, and 9th level spells :smallsmile:

Also what Pharaoh's Fist said.

Keld Denar
2009-06-08, 04:01 AM
With limited BAB loss and decent abilities at level 13?

Paladin2/Sorcerer4/Spellsword1/AbjurantChampion4/SacredExorcist1/AbjChamp+1 in that order.

Assuming Human

H Able Leaner (Races of Destiny)
1 Power Attack
3 Practiced Spellcaster (CArcane)
6 Law Devotion (CChampion)
9 Extend Spell
12 Divine Might (CWarrior)

Spells known a mixture of utility and combat spells, including Whirling Blade as a 2nd level spell known to cover ranged attacks, minor teleportation magic such as Dimensional Hop or Dimension Door known to cover mobility, Fly to fly, social magic such as Charm Person to make friends and beguile people, and whatever else you might need.

Casts as an 11th level Sorcerer, which means up to 5th level spells. BAB of 10/13, not bad.

Cha-based gish-in-a-can.

Alternatively, Swap the 1 level of Sacred Exorcist for 1 level of Eldritch Knight for 11/13 BAB, but casting only as a 10th level Sorc. Also loses Turn Undead to power Divine Might and additional uses of Law Devotion. Not worth it in my opinion, but you may think so.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-08, 04:38 AM
1. Able to act effectively in almost any circumstance, including
a. Social
b. Melee combat
c. Ranged combat
d. Travel and recovery time

2. No more than -2 away from full BAB at 13th level (which is where I'd start)

3. Doesn't need to fulfill any of the 4 primary party roles (covered by the other players)

4. Not a Bard

5. Essential feats (to me) for any fighting build are: Combat Reflexes, Quick Draw and Improved Critical

6. Without having to read the mind of the DM as to what a given day's trials will entail.

7. No full casters need apply

I have an idea. How about a monk?

ZeroNumerous
2009-06-08, 08:39 AM
Much like a Bard, that seems to be somewhat gimped in every area.

Uh. Bards are not gimped in any way. Snowflake Wardance replicates melee better than most fighters. Buffs and Dragonfire Inspiration makes your melee more effective. Save-or-Sucks or Sublime Chord makes you a viable caster-type. The only thing the Bard can't do is trapfinding or tracking, but I'm sure there's a magic item out there to give either or both.

Also, I'd like to point out that Improved Critical can be replicated with Keen Edge, Quick Draw is pointless past level 2 and Combat Reflexes is only important if you have reach.

woodenbandman
2009-06-08, 10:50 AM
Ever considered Incarnum or Tome of Magic? Binders and Totemists are both extremely versatile (as are Incarnates, but they require much, much more optimization to win at anything). A Binder/KotSS will have a base attack bonus of + 11, but a Totemist only has a +9 (not to worry, natural weapons don't need high BAB anyway).

Totemists are good with the combat, either Melee or Ranged (especially when combined with Skirmish, Sneak Attack, or Dragonfire Inspiration). They can hack almost any combat style with the right feats, whether it's range, tripping, grappling, or pouncing. They have good scouting abilities, between their decent skill list, 4 skill points, and their Skill boosting soulmelds. They're kinda okay in social combat, but if you combine them with Barbarian to make a Totem Rager you'll have a good time intimidating whoever you want. Also you don't need improved critical or quick draw because you have all your weapons on your fingertips.

Binders are kind of the same shtick, they can be good in ranged, melee, social, or sneaking, but not all at the same time until higher levels (whereas a totemist can combine 2 specialties at once even at low levels). Being at level 13, you shouldn't have to worry, you won't often find yourself wanting for vestiges. for a good combat combination, try Tenebrous and Chupoclops, so that you can always get into position to pounce. If you bind Paimon and this other guy, you get Combat Reflexes and + 4 dexterity. One of the vestiges grants you improved critical.

These two sound like what you want. Also the Factotum is totally awesome.

Khatoblepas
2009-06-08, 11:39 AM
Human Urban Mystic Wildshape Arcane Hunter Ranger 11/Stalker of Kharrash 2
with Sword of the Arcane Order, Dragon Wildshape, Abberant Wildshape, Exalted Wildshape. Maybe go for that Lion of Talisid class later on. Swap your useless animal companion for a familiar. (Oooh, I wanna play one. :3 They're like Gishmonkeys.)

Lots of versitility, 5th level spells, and Favored Enemy (Arcanists, Evil).
Travel form: Blink Dog.
Recovery: Even if you run out of spells, you have Wildshape, your full BAB, and your skills. Think outside the box. I doubt you'll be that gimped in a standard party.

Human Urban Mystic Arcane Hunter Ranger 8/Scout 3/Stalker of Kharrash 2
Swift Hunter build. 5th level spells. BAB +12. Favored Enemy Arcanists and Evil. You're set for life. Take Archery feats.

Swordsage 13. You don't need BAB when you have a neverending supply of awesome.

[contested] LA Bought off Divine Minion Changeling Urban Ranger 3/Master of Many Forms 7/Chameleon 3.
or
[contested] Using Flaws: LA Bought off Changeling Factotum 1/Master of Many Forms 7/Chameleon 5
At-will wildshape, all skills on your skill list, 3rd level spells from any list. If you aren't versatile with that, you're never going to be.

I'd agree that Totemists and Binders are awesome in their versatility. Try one out. Find out they're awesome.