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Melamoto
2009-06-08, 03:15 PM
Ok, so i've decided to make a character who fights from inside constructs, and the only one I could think of was the Apparatus of Kwalish. Now, I can do things like summon Unseen Servant Hordes to operate the levers for me, and I can heal damage it takes, but that's not enough. I want it to have real firepower attached. I was thinking of attaching ranged weapons to it and using some kind of mechanical device to power it. I was also thinking of installing permanent Symbol spells on the inside that I could use special triggers for (Not sure how to do this, be able to trigger them, and still have them not effect me and my familiar grease-monkey). Any ideas, assuming I start at level 15 with average EWL-the cost of the apparatus and the ability to use up xp before beginning?

Although any alternative constructs would also be appreciated.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-08, 03:33 PM
The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy describes the Aparatus of Qualish as 'the most advanced magical self-contained trashcan in Dungeons and Dragons', and it is without a doubt at least 10 years ahead of its closest competitor.

The Guide lists the third most advanced magical self-contained trashcan to be Daern's Instant Fortress: a small metal cube which expands into a 20 foot square, 30 foot tall Adamantine tower complete with arrow slits and crenelations. Since the tower is immune to any form of physical or magical repair short of a wish spell (which are listed in the description as healing roughly half of the tower's HP), at 55000 gold it would be far too expensive a bastion to use, but because it expands instantly from a tiny cube into a 20 foot square Rook, its most common use is to crush unwelcome foes out of the way (after which you collapse the fortress to be used again).

The second most advanced self-contained trashcan (magical or otherwise) is a standard suit of Half-Plate armor. Unlike Full-Plate, which is a series of rigid metal plates, with the joints protected by much smaller plates linked together with chainmail, all constructed with care such that the plates rest upon one another, dissipating a good portion of their weight through the legs and feet and into the ground, Half-Plate cuts the assembly costs significantly by prioritizing the most vital or prominent areas of the body, with the plates mostly just strapped together. The advantage to this, appart from a 60% costs savings over full-plate, is that it provides nearly the same degree of protection, while restricting your mobility to the point that you no longer feel obligated to even try dodging attacks. In fact one Gnomish iventor simplified the production even further by simply building a metal cylinder with eye- and arm-holes (and an open bottom), which isn't really any more cumbersome than normal half-plate, and has the advantage that if fighting on higher ground, you can make a quick escape simply by falling over sideways and rolling away to freedom. Which all seemed well and good until in one particular battle, the inventor make a quick escape into a river and discovered that his 50lb steel barrel didn't float. Probably due to the eye-holes.

The Apparatus of Qualish, thus, takes both of these inventions to their natural (magical self-contained trashcan) conclusion. Though at first it appears to be nothing more than an overlarge sealed iron barrel, it is actually riddled with hidden ports from which emerge an array of lobster-like legs and feelers, and a tail. In fact, the Apparatus functions as something of a medieval amphibious submarine vehicle with a 2-man capacity, featuring such brilliant innovations as unlabelled and difficult to manipulate controls, an air supply determined by a random die roll, and pincer attacks which deal respectable damage. Or it would be respectable, perhaps, if not for 2 factors: 1) anyone skimming the Monstrous Manual might notice that all monsters that live underwater tend to be larger and far more dangerous than their land-based counterparts, probably to balance out the fact that players characters are always at a natural disadvantage in underwater combat, and 2) the Apparatus costs an Astounding 90,000 gold, which you would be 'out' if some giant squid crushed it. Compare this price to a Cloak of the Manta Ray (a 7200 gold item that grants you an array of excellent abilities in salt water, camouflages you as a native animal, moves three times as fast and does NOT have a limit on its airsupply), or a Headband of Intellect +6 (a 36000 gold item that would likely cause you to think better of this whole underwater affair).

In fact, for 90,000 gold, you could actually construct a Stone Golem, an unmanned automaton that fights much better than your 'lobster-barrel', obeys your commands, doesn't need to breathe at all, and can likely accomplish your sea-bed mission for you whilst you remain comfortably NOT-underwater.
From here (http://agc.deskslave.org/excerpt_viewer.html?goNumber=108).

Melamoto
2009-06-08, 03:37 PM
From here (http://agc.deskslave.org/excerpt_viewer.html?goNumber=108).
Hmm. Well then, is there any way to make some kind of construct that you can get inside and fight from that is more effective?

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-08, 03:42 PM
Get inside...I don't know. It's a common strategy with Undead(and can always electroplate a skeleton to get it better AC and calling it a Construct), but I'm not up on Constructs. I just know the Apparatus is only worth 90K to Artificers who can turn it into 90K magic items that are actually useful.

Tehnar
2009-06-08, 03:43 PM
I think you could use the information in the stronghold builders guide to advance your crabship :D.

I would suggest two wands of magic missile in place of its eye things.

Justin B.
2009-06-08, 03:53 PM
There is no reason why you can't craft a golem that allows you to fight from inside of it. Use wands of Fly or Overland Flight to simulate flight, use wands of disintegrate for all sorts of fun, as well as lightning bolt, magic missile, fireballs, and meteor swarms if you are high enough level.

HamsterOfTheGod
2009-06-08, 03:58 PM
Ok, so i've decided to make a character who fights from inside constructs, and the only one I could think of was the Apparatus of Kwalish. Now, I can do things like summon Unseen Servant Hordes to operate the levers for me, and I can heal damage it takes, but that's not enough. I want it to have real firepower attached. I was thinking of attaching ranged weapons to it and using some kind of mechanical device to power it. I was also thinking of installing permanent Symbol spells on the inside that I could use special triggers for (Not sure how to do this, be able to trigger them, and still have them not effect me and my familiar grease-monkey). Any ideas, assuming I start at level 15 with average EWL-the cost of the apparatus and the ability to use up xp before beginning?

Although any alternative constructs would also be appreciated.

Try artificer (Eberron) or effigy master (Complete Arcane). Basically they let you reduce the cost of creating constructs. Then just modify the construct to let you ride inside. You can heal constructs with the various repair spells. The details you have work with DM. So for ex, if the construct is sealed (so as to give total cover from attacks) then you don't have line of effect to cast spells outside the construct, for ex like in AoQ.

You could even use something like the Giant's Champion prestige class (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/mYkD5jL8N9SAcClN3pZ.html). Just change the flavor from 'divine avatar' to 'transformed into mecha style robot.

Telonius
2009-06-08, 04:01 PM
As long as you make four other Apparatus of the ____, and allow them to combine into one larger, awesomer Super-Apparatus, I would fully endorse this idea.

Melamoto
2009-06-08, 04:20 PM
As long as you make four other Apparatus of the ____, and allow them to combine into one larger, awesomer Super-Apparatus, I would fully endorse this idea.
Only if I can find 4 other people to each have their own Apparatus, and add lots of wands of Magic Missile to everything.

RS14
2009-06-08, 04:26 PM
Why not just suggest to your DM that, as it is obscenely expensive, you go on a short quest to obtain it, and then not count it against WBL. Refer him to Sstoopidtallkid's relevant quoted passage, if necessary.

Vaynor
2009-06-08, 10:13 PM
The Apparatus of the Crab is inherently flawed in that you can attack it's weak point for massive damage quit easily. That and the whole thing, while appearing to be rather cool, is essentially useless and terrible. Make a hollow golem.

Sinfire Titan
2009-06-08, 10:21 PM
There is a way. (http://forums.gleemax.com/archive/index.php/t-906525.html)

Faleldir
2009-06-08, 10:22 PM
I would suggest using the stats for a Warforged Titan and adding a huge armbow.

Zeta Kai
2009-06-08, 10:32 PM
If you can wait a little bit, the Build Team for the VUACS project has constructed the Colossus of the Ral Zadi, which is essentially a Colossal walking dungeon that you can drive like a tank. If you make it to the top alive & have the key, that is.

Mr.Bookworm
2009-06-08, 11:36 PM
If you can wait a little bit, the Build Team for the VUACS project has constructed the Colossus of the Ral Zadi, which is essentially a Colossal walking dungeon that you can drive like a tank. If you make it to the top alive & have the key, that is.

I swear to Zihaja, we need to lock you three up in a room and not let you out until you've finished that thing.

Anyway, I do not have it, but I hear Dragonmech (a 3rd-party D&D book) has a lot of things along this line.

raptor1056
2009-06-09, 12:15 AM
I think this is not a case of needing a splatbook. Well, the book as a whole is definitely not requested, just its information, which I suppose is the splat. Anyways, what I think is needed here is not a fresh supply of splat, but some creativity. For, say, an extra 10,000 gold, you could probably mod out an iron golem to be sat in. From there, the descriptions I've read of "follows commands" are sketchy enough to probably allow you to say it works like a miniature giant anime robot and call it a day.
Interesting fact: a friend of mine once essentially played Alphonse Elric by using the psionic power that permanently swaps things' minds. Since he had created the golem, he had control over his body. It was mildly disturbing. He died a fleshy, transmute-y death.

Waspinator
2009-06-09, 01:12 AM
The Dragonmech book "Steam Warriors" has "Construct Armor", which is exactly what you want: a magically animated armor suit that augments your abilities. You get a hefty +10 armor bonus, +2 enhancement armor bonus, 30 foot speed, +4 Strength, darkvision, unlimited air supply, slam attack, and DR 5 / cold iron or silver for 36,650 gp. It's pretty awesome. There's also hydraulic and clockwork versions which have similar end results but are more technologically based.

herrhauptmann
2009-06-09, 01:36 AM
How about the steamjacks in Iron Kingdoms?

ErrantX
2009-06-09, 02:05 AM
The Iron Kingdoms campaign setting, an amazing third party setting by the folks at Privateer Press (http://www.privateerpress.com), in their Liber Mechanika book have rules for a prestige class called Ironhead, a fighting class that utilizes a suit of steam powered armor that is basically what you're looking for. I'd recommend it and that setting.

-X

Asbestos
2009-06-09, 10:21 AM
The Iron Kingdoms campaign setting, an amazing third party setting by the folks at Privateer Press (http://www.privateerpress.com), in their Liber Mechanika book have rules for a prestige class called Ironhead, a fighting class that utilizes a suit of steam powered armor that is basically what you're looking for. I'd recommend it and that setting.

-X

Except that steam armor (and steam jacks) are wholly useless underwater. But, modified it could do very well. And, as others have said, check out some Dragon Mech as well.

AdmiralCheez
2009-06-09, 11:53 AM
In Monster Manual 3, they have the Siege Crab, a collosal-sized crab that has been hollowed out. I forget exactly what it can do, but I know spellcasters can use the claws to cast spells, and it has a hatch on the bottom for jumping out of. I believe it also counts as a Vermin Construct that one person is able to pilot.

Waspinator
2009-06-09, 01:22 PM
The only problem with Dragonmech's Construct Armor is that it does have 15% spell failure and require heavy armor proficiency. If you want to be a wizard in a set, you're probably going to have to use some tricks to deal with that.

Ravens_cry
2009-06-09, 03:01 PM
The only problem with Dragonmech's Construct Armor is that it does have 15% spell failure and require heavy armor proficiency. If you want to be a wizard in a set, you're probably going to have to use some tricks to deal with that.
Make it out of Mithral (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialmaterials.htm). Reduces spell failure by 10 percent, down to 5, and makes it medium armour for the purposes of proficiency. Which means you only have to burn 2 feats if you want to stay strictly wizard. If you don't want to burn two feats, you can take a dip in gishy class that gives medium armour and some arcane spell casting. There has to be one at least somewhere.

Waspinator
2009-06-09, 03:26 PM
That works. The Mithral gets it down most of the way and then you could take a level of Fighter or Crusader or something (for profiencies and prerequisites) and then the first level of Spellsword (which lets you ignore 10% of failure chance and advances your spellcasting). You would be down one caster level overall, but gain the ability to use armor like that suit as well as a bunch of weapon proficiencies and a handful of maneuvers from the Crusader level.

mistformsquirrl
2009-06-09, 03:47 PM
I think you could use the information in the stronghold builders guide to advance your crabship :D.

I would suggest two wands of magic missile in place of its eye things.

This is how I'd do it. <^_^> I actually did something like this myself:

Smallest stronghold I could build, made it self-mobile with I think it was Adamantine walls.

Then I gave it a main gun: A severed ship mast which I turned into an oversized Wand of Fireball. (Seriously; not even joking.)


... Yeah I made an arcane battletank >.>

I'm sure you could make all kinds of stuff in similar veins if you wanted. Heck, make an Iron Golem you can ride in, then put wands all over the place that you can trigger from inside; then custom-build some items that can cast nastier spells once or twice a day.

Result? Instant Gundam/or Battlemech <@_@>


(There are of course probably a bajillion ways to do it; rules-wise I'd use the Stronghold Builder's Guide if you've got access to it as a basis, then agree with your DM on just how far you can go with the form.)

herrhauptmann
2009-06-10, 04:32 PM
The only problem with Dragonmech's Construct Armor is that it does have 15% spell failure and require heavy armor proficiency. If you want to be a wizard in a set, you're probably going to have to use some tricks to deal with that.

Mithral and Twilight.
Twilight I think does 10 or 15% itself.
Also I think mithral just makes heavy count as medium for purposes of encumbrance. But as far as feats are concerned, it's still heavy armor.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialMaterials.htm#mithral
Mithral is a very rare silvery, glistening metal that is lighter than iron but just as hard. When worked like steel, it becomes a wonderful material from which to create armor and is occasionally used for other items as well. Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light. Spell failure chances for armors and shields made from mithral are decreased by 10%, maximum Dexterity bonus is increased by 2, and armor check penalties are lessened by 3 (to a minimum of 0).

Type of Mithral Item Item Cost Modifier
Light armor +1,000 gp
Medium armor +4,000 gp
Heavy armor +9,000 gp
Shield +1,000 gp
Other items +500 gp/lb.