Shadowrun: why metahumans

[Narmoth]

Shadowrun is a setting placed on Earth in 2070. In 2011, according to their fluff, elves will be born due to human mutation.
Yes, you read it right: elves. On Earth. In 2011
Later on we get orcs as well, so in time for 2070, we have in addition to ordinary humans, dwarfs, orcs, trolls and elves.
And the great question is why?

[chiasaur11]

Because Elves are the worthless waste product of universes, and all the other cyberpunk had the sense to send those who weren't shot or katana'd to death to a nearby universe.

Seriously, for the most part Elves can just crawl into a hole and die.

[NPCMook]

Because they can? Some people like to play something that isn't human, something different. That is the Why.

I'm pretty sure a game with all humans is going to get pretty dull pretty fast

[BobVosh]

Why according to fluff? Or metagame reasons?

Also why don't you question the dragons?

[Malacode]

Because it's a fantasy roleplaying game? Why are there Elves in D&D, for that matter? Or Elves in LoTR?

[kamikasei]

Why according to fluff? Or metagame reasons?

This.


I'm pretty sure a game with all humans is going to get pretty dull pretty fast

Hardly.

[Shademan]

fluffy: 'cus magic returned.
non-fluffy: well... orcs are cool?

[chiasaur11]

I'm pretty sure a game with all humans is going to get pretty dull pretty fast

What Kamikasei said.

Also, there are other non humans better suited to Cyberpunk.

Durandalian (Shodanesque Nuermancerlikes whatever term you want here) mad AIs spring to mind far quicker than more stupid Elves, all I'm saying.

[Waspinator]

Because there was probably a Lord of the Rings fanboy on the writing staff?

[Halaster]

They just wanted to make something different. After all the Cyberpunk RPG already existed, so making another one without a twist just wouldn't have been marketable. Instead, they tried to get the fantasy crowd and the cyberpunk crowd into one game system by adding magic, dragons and non-human player character races. Seems to have worked pretty well (4 editions, myriads of players etc.).

Also it quite neatly allowed them to set their fantasy game, Earthdawn, in the same universe, although that is admittedly fluff with no real effect on either game.

I might add that, nowadays, I don't really think it works all that well, but I used to play SR a lot and enjoyed metahuman characters.

[mistformsquirrl]

If I remember correctly (keeping in mind I'm basing my knowledge on SR3 as I've not tried SR4) -

But if I remember right, some elves (not all!) are UGE babies, much like Orks, Trolls and Dwarfs. That is, human parents shortly after magic returned might have an Elven child.

Other elves, nobles I think, returned when magic came back. That is they hid away and returned when it came back.

(Keeping in mind this is information from years ago and I've not looked in an SR sourcebook in even longer)

From an outside the game perspective "why"?

Well because that's what Shadowrun is about really. Thematically its someone taking D&D and Cyberpunk and tossing them in a blender. It needs those things for the simple fact that that's the point of the setting.

It's kind of like asking "Why does Battletech need Mechs?" Even though they're completely impractical, and the logic behind building them over tanks is applied phlebtonium... they exist because to some people they're damn cool.

Another example would be Airships in steampunk/some fantasy settings. They exist because they are cool, and the justifications come later (and often are relatively thin - but you are expected to accept them for the cool factor.)

So ultimately: Shadowrun has metahumans, because they're very much a part of 'the point' of the setting: Ie; not only is it a dystopian future, but it's a pretty weird one.

Of course none of that is to say you can't play Shadowrun without them. I've done it. I prefer it with, but that's just me.

That to me is the beauty of these kinds of games: The setting is just a backdrop; the DM (and to a lesser extent the players) are free to paint over that backdrop wherever they like; or remove it and create a new one. (Ran a space campaign once for instance - hunting vampires through a series of space stations.)

Errr... to summarize my rambling:

The answer to your question is - Because that's what the story is about. "What would happen if Fantasy and Cyberpunk meet up? What does the world look like?"

Obviously it's not going to be for everyone, but that's why there are other games and the ability to mod the setting as you please.

[Narmoth]

Because it's a fantasy roleplaying game? Why are there Elves in D&D, for that matter? Or Elves in LoTR?

Well, there's elves in D&D because there were elves in Tolkiens world. They were in Tolkiens world because he put them there. As an author, that's all the needed justification.


Also why don't you question the dragons?

Because thy aren't a player race, so I don't ask why anyone would want to play one. But yes, they're completely and utterly pointless in my opinion.


Why according to fluff? Or metagame reasons?

Metagame reasons. Who need them there? What are the reasons to play them?

Then again, I plan to only use the system, not the Shadowrun world

[JellyPooga]

Well, there's elves in D&D because there were elves in Tolkiens world. They were in Tolkiens world because he put them there. As an author, that's all the needed justification.

Why does a writer of an RPG need any more justification than an author?


Because thy aren't a player race, so I don't ask why anyone would want to play one. But yes, they're completely and utterly pointless in my opinion.

So you're saying that you think the idea of a fantasy/cyberpunk setting is pointless? You're entitled to that opinion, of course, but why bother with Shadowrun at all? After all, that's what the setting is designed for. If you want pure cyberpunk, why not play (and this is a total shot in the dark here) Cyberpunk 2020 :smalleek:?

[bosssmiley]

Shadowrun is a setting placed on Earth in 2070. In 2011, according to their fluff, elves will be born due to human mutation.
Yes, you read it right: elves. On Earth. In 2011
Later on we get orcs as well, so in time for 2070, we have in addition to ordinary humans, dwarfs, orcs, trolls and elves.
And the great question is why?

Out of Game: Because if something is stupid enough (in this instance Tolkien + 80s cyberpunk) it undergoes a phase change from 'stupid' to 'awesome' (aka "totally rad" *snork snork*).

Case in point: Saturday morning kids cartoon setting (http://likebeingreadtofromdictionaries.blogspot.com/2009/05/playable-races-of-mutant-earth.html). I would play this SO HARD!

In Game: That's one of the big mysteries of the Shadowrun setting (clue: Earthdawn) :smallwink:

[Anakha]

Metagame reasons. Who need them there? What are the reasons to play them?

Then again, I plan to only use the system, not the Shadowrun world

From a powergaming perspective, Elves start with higher AGI and CHA, making them good faces. Also, since Magic in almost every setting involves the elves, Shadowrun has elves. Shadowrun also has the other generic fantasy races in the Core Rulebook, and in the Runner's Companion, you can play an AI, a Dragon, a Spirit, or other races.

Also, Elves tend to come from higher society, are vegans, and are mostly discriminated by the other races. So if you are a player who is vegan, or think hes better than everyone else, or likes role playing that, the elf is good for him.

[kamikasei]

Uh, Narmoth... Shadowrun is a creative work. It has authors. They wanted to put elves in it. Why is that good enough for Tolkien but not for them? (Ah, I see JellyPooga made the same point.)

More to the point: why does it need to be justified in out-of-game terms? Shadowrun is a cyberpunk/fantasy hybrid with magic and magic-touched races heavily derivative of the "standard" fantasy lineup. That's what the game is. Why should it be otherwise?

[Tsotha-lanti]

Metagame reasons. Who need them there? What are the reasons to play them?

Then again, I plan to only use the system, not the Shadowrun world

Because it's the whole point of the setting. "Hey, how about a cyberpunk world with fantasy in it?" "Awesome!"

Also, they're there to piss off William Gibson. I can't explain the sick sense of satisfaction I get from knowing he hates Shadowrun virulently.

[Halaster]

Metagame reasons. Who need them there? What are the reasons to play them?

Well, why is anything ever there in any setting? Why does D&D have wizards casting fireballs (which are not there in Tolkien, or most other pre-D&D fantasy)? To lend a certain flavor to the setting, one that the authors like and that they believe their customers will like too. That's all there is. There is no point to anything in an RPG, except to make it fun. Shadowrun players find metahumans, dragons and magic fun, or they would be playing Cyberpunk 2020.
So, what explanation are you looking for beyond that?

I concur with previous posters: why even play Shadowrun (system or setting doesn't matter), if you plan on dumping like half of the system anyway? Why not go for GURPS hightech sourcebooks, or the aforementioned Cyberpunk 2020? They probably offer better options for customizing human, non-magical characters, since Shadowrun inherently assumes that some of the diversity in the group will result from wizards/shamans and metahumans being present, not to mention game balance also relying on their existence.

[Narmoth]

If you want pure cyberpunk, why not play (and this is a total shot in the dark here) Cyberpunk 2020 :smalleek:?

Because I like the game mechanics.


Uh, Narmoth... Shadowrun is a creative work. It has authors. They wanted to put elves in it. Why is that good enough for Tolkien but not for them? (Ah, I see JellyPooga made the same point.)

Sure, they can. But mechanically, what does it give? What part of the game do you actually need elves for that you can't use humans?

Also, if it wasn't Earth, i wouldn't say anything. But elves popping up on Earth in 2011. It needs a better justification than "because we wanted to".
Because it's Earth. Like OUR Earth. In about 2 years.

[JellyPooga]

Also, if it wasn't Earth, i wouldn't say anything. But elves popping up on Earth in 2011. It needs a better justification than "because we wanted to".
Because it's Earth. Like OUR Earth. In about 2 years.

There are many RPGs, stories and such that use a timeline that has already been proven wrong;

Cyberpunk 2020 says that we've already had at least one Corporation War.

Escape from New York says that New York got turned into a prison over a decade ago (coming on two).

1984 says that we should be living in a very different world to the one we do.

This does not detract from their merit, you just have to suspend your disbelief and immerse yourself in the 'story' to enjoy them. It is rather the point of Science Fiction to do so.

[kamikasei]

Sure, they can. But mechanically, what does it give? What part of the game do you actually need elves for that you can't use humans?

The part of the game that includes "playing non-humans". Because sometimes, people want to do that.


Also, if it wasn't Earth, i wouldn't say anything. But elves popping up on Earth in 2011. It needs a better justification than "because we wanted to".

No, it really doesn't. In game, it's given a justification, I believe. Out of game, it needs no justification beyond "we wanted a cyberpunk setting with fantasy elements, including non-human races".

[Tsotha-lanti]

Sure, they can. But mechanically, what does it give? What part of the game do you actually need elves for that you can't use humans?

Also, if it wasn't Earth, i wouldn't say anything. But elves popping up on Earth in 2011. It needs a better justification than "because we wanted to".
Because it's Earth. Like OUR Earth. In about 2 years.

It's not a mechanics thing at all.

You need elves so you'll have Tir Tairngire, an independent elven nation in Washington. You need elves so you'll have elven supermodels. You need orks and trolls so you'll have goblin rock, the Ork Underground, troll bouncers and troll bikers and ork mafiosi. You need dwarves so you'll have four-foot bearded corporate executives or mechanics.

The change happens when we move from the Fourth World to the Fifth World. According to the Mayan Calendar, the world ends in December 2012. Turns out they were right, but the typical Western idea of the end of the world wasn't. The Fourth World ends, and the Fifth World begins. The odd-numbered worlds include magic, the even-numbered don't - so elves and dwarves take on their real shapes, and people begin giving birth to more elves and dwarves. Then comes the goblinization - teenagers turn into orks and trolls. Dragons appear, people learn to use magic again (it starts, not surprisingly, with aboriginal peoples oppressed by long-post-colonial governments, who have kept their old ways alive, and who start using their old magic against their oppressors).

[bosssmiley]

Sure, they can. But mechanically, what does it give? What part of the game do you actually need elves for that you can't use humans?

Also, if it wasn't Earth, I wouldn't say anything. But elves popping up on Earth in 2011. It needs a better justification than "because we wanted to". Because it's Earth. Like OUR Earth. In about 2 years.

*headdesk*

The coming 2012 apocalypse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Doomsday_prediction) is kind of a big deal on the intarweb. :smallwink:

Thanks to that Shadowrun Earth is no more our world than are Rifts Earth, the world of Castle Falkenstein, or the Earth of the Cthulhu Mythos.

The reasons for the return of magic/spirits/non-human races are all there in the setting material. It's just not spoon-fed to you.

[Tsotha-lanti]

Cyberpunk 2020 says that we've already had at least one Corporation War.

1991 - Artificial muscle fibers developed at Stanford
1992 - DEA spreads bioweapon plagues among coca and opium plants worldwide; Chile and Ecuador governments collapse; Eurocorp-backed dealers war with DEA all over the Americas
1993 - Columbian druglords detonate nuke in New York
1994 - Stock market crash, US economy collapses; nuclear accident in Pittsburgh
1995 - Construction begun on mass driver in Kilamanjaro
1996 - US collapses; 25% of US citizens homeless
1997 - Middle East nuclear war reduces Iran, Iraq, Libya, Chad, and Arab Emirates to "radioactive slag"
1998 - 10.5 quake leaves 35% of Los Angeles under water, kills 65,000
2000 - Wasting plague kills hundreds of thousands in US, Europe
2003 - Second Central American war begins, US invades Columbia, Ecuador, Peru, and Venezuela
...
2008 - Orbital war between US and Eurospace Agency
2009 - Euro-Soviet mission to Mars;
2010 - Second Central American War ends


Yeah, CP2020 looks way less far-fetched and implausible oh wait.


The whole point of sci-fi (and cyberpunk is SF) is to ask a question and to answer it in as much depth if you can (The Diamond Age: "what if nanotechnology was?", etc.). In Shadowrun, the question is "What if fantasy and magic was?"

[Project_Mayhem]

It's not a mechanics thing at all ... You need dwarves so you'll have four-foot bearded corporate executives or mechanics.

Aha. This highlights ... erm ... something

[Narmoth]

To twist the question:
Running shadowrun rules without metahumans and without magic, what balance issues should I be aware of?

[T.G. Oskar]

Well, that's what makes Shadowrun so awesome, actually.

The general trend is that magic and technology usually are in opposition, and that the abundance of one tend to weaken the other.

You'd probably have to look at the differences between Shadowrun, the Eberron Campaign Setting, and the basic concept of cyberpunk (throw in our world for measure)

Shadowrun has the right balance of magic and technology. Magic isn't suddenly making satellites short-out massively, or causing a technological recession. Technology still thrives and advances, to the point that the line between magic and technology simply blurs (and thus, the famous quote of "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" is invoked, proven, parodied, rebuked, refused, and just about anything you want to imagine) There's your tree-huggers, there's your mages, there's your tech junkies, and there's the people who simply want to live a normal live (and there's fundies and whatnot). Magic usually evokes the idea of fantasy, thus it usually invokes the fundamental fantasy races (elf, dwarf, orc, troll, dragon, faerie, etc.) The beautiful point of the setting is that you see how these fantastical races mingle with a futuristic world that predicted the forthcoming of the Matrix before the movie came.

You could argue why d20 Modern has the Urban Arcana supplement, which is pretty much introducing D&D fantasy into a modern setting, along with the epitome elves and dwarves (and drow and Aasimar and Tieflings)

Short idea: Rule of Cool wants things to mingle together.

Now, Eberron is pretty much the other side of the scale. There's technology, sure. But it's heavily magical, so much that the above-mentioned quote is invoked in the inverse sense. It has the same feel and fantastic locales, powers, and themes as your typical fantasy setting, but it's full of airships and lightning rails and machineguns, grenade launchers, flamethrowers and robots wands of Magic Missile, Fireball, Burning Hands and the Warforged race.

Most cyberpunk settings tend to use only two concepts: futuristic Earth with a shared past, or aliens alongside the former. Even then, sometimes your elf or dwarf is replaced by a humanoid-looking alien who behaves much like it.

And our Earth, compared to that, looks pretty boring. There's still adventure out there, but governments just want us to be the boring commoners instead of the intrepid adventurers.

So, why metahumans in Shadowrun? Well, if you're going to mingle cyberpunk with fantasy, you eventually want to play with all the concepts. But you need to justify some things. Hence, why elves are the result of recessive genes mutations and whatnot. It's more interesting than the Houdini pull shadow travel of d20 Modern-Urban Arcana. Sounds quite reasonable.

As for reasons why to play them, sometimes you need to play from a different aspect. Not everyone always wants to play as a human; give it a choice, and sometimes they'll take it. Also, humans often are "balanced"; other races tend to exaggerate some physical or mental traits but suffer penalties on other traits in order to keep their balance. These gifted traits are usually the average of the race, which means you have a greater chance to get what you want (a really strong bruiser, a really smart genius, a really attractive face, etc.) without stretching it. Actually, Shadowrun is excellent in the way it handles metahumans; it gives them bonuses to their base stats, and at times even enhances their limit beyond the typical limit without the need of cybernetics or going the path of the Adept.

[OverdrivePrime]

There's not a whole heck of a lot of balance issues if you take out metahumans and anything paranormal in general. The game plays just fine if it's just a bunch of n'er-do-well humans fightin' against the corps with a bunch of chrome and biotech.

The only balance issue I see with removing magic is that there is suddenly no drawback to having stacks and stacks of cyberware and bioware, because no one really needs an Essence above .01 anymore. Of course, you don't have magical healing to get the players back into the game faster, so that might be an issue.

[Tsotha-lanti]

To twist the question:
Running shadowrun rules without metahumans and without magic, what balance issues should I be aware of?

None IMO. Cyberpunk games aren't about "balance." In Shadowrun, magic is just another way to get things done. Magic can replace skills and tech - healing (but not instant magical complete healing), defeating security, combat, getting your way with people... but it never really supercedes them. Sure, you might be able to throw a fireball, but the other guys can throw grenades. You might be able to shoot a manabolt, but the other guys have assault rifles. You can debilitate someone with a touch, but the other guys have tasers or shock batons. Messing with people's minds - the most subtle kind of magic - is the only one that's not (easily) replicated by technology.

Really, magic is just a feature of the setting. A dragon running a megacorporation in SR isn't that different from wrinkled old Saburo Arasaka running a megacorporation CP2020. The dragon's incredible personal combat abilities aren't ever going to come into play anyway - just like you'll never get to take a shot at Saburo. (Well, okay, both might happen, but it'll be such a rare and unusual situation that both will probably require approximately equal amounts of unusual circumstances and preparation.)

To me, cyberpunk stories and cyberpunk games are all about unfair set-ups. A burnt-out hacker and a razordoll against an entire megacorporation; a store security guard and a college girl being hunted by crooked cops and a professional killer; a girl and her book against two existing world orders. That's the stuff.

I guess the point about less variety might be valid in comparison to games like GURPS, but IMO Shadowrun offers more mechanical variety than Cyberpunk 2020 (with its idiot classes) even without magic and metahumans.

Edit:

The only balance issue I see with removing magic is that there is suddenly no drawback to having stacks and stacks of cyberware and bioware, because no one really needs an Essence above .01 anymore. Of course, you don't have magical healing to get the players back into the game faster, so that might be an issue.

Other cyberpunk games do fine without this "limitation." CP2020 has the somewhat idiotic cyberpsychosis - although I've seen that used well twice: the Bubblegum Crisis prequel OVA series, AD Police, has an episode with a cyberpsychotic woman (it's pretty misogynistic, but the depiction is good), and another with a full 'borg conversion cop who goes cyberpsychotic.

But at the end of the day, that's all artificial limitations. If your cyberpunk is transhumanist, for instance, then there's no reason to limit cybernetics beyond what you can afford (and the cost is and should be prohibitive).

[Satyr]

I think you miss the most obvious point: Elven chicks in skin-tight catsuits on a motorbike look hot. And 3m punkrockers with tusks and horns look really tough. Shadowrun is an almost complete style over substance setting that only maintains the minimal pausibility to amke the game actually playable. The rest is just made to look cool while you sneak into high security facilities and blow up lots of cars.

But actually, the very premise of Shadowrun - let there be Cyberware and Punkrock and then let there be magic and hot Elf chicks - is hillarious, but also the reason why the system is or was so immensely popular. It just combines as many RPG "cool stuff elements" as possible.

[Tsotha-lanti]

Shadowrun is an almost complete style over substance setting

It's a cyberpunk thing. (Or mirrorpunk, really.) The CP2020 manual actually tells us, on page 4...


THE RULES:
1) Style Over Substance.

To me, though, the real fun is always in making this stuff feel real. I've never had as much fun with CP2020 as I do when I work on my Los Angeles Megaplex - hammering all these essentially disparate pieces and counter-utopian elements together into one messed-up whole, and try to figure out what it's actually like to live in that.

Doing the same with Shadowrun - why not? To me, the great bit is bucking expectations and stereotypes. An elf klutz, bouncer, shy secretary... a troll suit, painter, dancer... an ork doctor, author, neohippy... a dwarf stripper, politician, rockstar...

Then there's figuring out how magic would integrate. Dragons as CEOs and presidents is a start, but how about departments of thaumatology in colleges, with magic labs and field work? How do corporations and the media use magic? How does the media portray magic? How do regular people see it? How much of a part of daily life is it?

And then there's the cultures. The rise of the aboriginal cultures; the rise of the magical traditions, both related and unrelated to aboriginal cultures, from Native American spirit dance to LaVeyan satanist magic; nonhuman cultures, both emergent and ancient, and the conflict between the two; cultural assimilation of metahuman and aboriginal cultures; street culture in the 2070s, yuppie culture, corp culture...

And so on and so on.

[Winterwind]

The reasons to have metahumans and magic have, I think, been elaborated upon in great detail (I, too, wouldn't ever want to have them removed, they are a big part of what makes ShadowRun awesome). As for the balance - from the year I deduce you are talking about 4th edition, right? Being only familiar with 3rd, I can't say with certainty how the balance would change, but I don't think it should matter a lot - most of the most important functions of magic can be, more or less, replicated with technology (astral scouting and divination with drones and hacking, combat magic with weapons and explosives, invisibility and illusions with ruthenium sheathing and holographic projectors) or are rendered obsolete with the lack of magic (as one of magic's most important functions would have been dealing with magical defences). And the lack of metahumans, while severely impacting upon the setting (which, as you say, you aren't going to use anyway), should have no impact at all mechanics-wise, as humans are perfectly fine and viable.

[Faleldir]

Because it's still not as cliché as catgirls.

[Cristo Meyers]

Because it's still not as cliché as catgirls.

Best if you don't look to closely at Year of the Comet, then...

Admittedly that wasn't supposedly the intent of that supplement, but damn if it isn't what it was used for...

[Deliverance]

Shadowrun just wouldn't be the same if you couldn't play a down on the luck extremely tough and, for his race, highly intelligent Troll mage living in the slums and specialising in invisibility magics and beating up his opponents with dual clubs (normally strapped on to the inside of his longcoat, giving a new meaning to carrying concealed weapons) doing small crime for whomever pays and who, when his magic occasionally fails, is tough enough to frontally rush a submachinegun armed security detail and stand a very reasonable chance of survival.

[Waspinator]

About removing magic: it should work ok since, if you think about it, whatever effects it has on balance should affect both the PCs and NPCs, so it all evens out.

[Winterwind]

One possible effect would be that Willpower would not be quite as important anymore. That's a rather minor and negligible effect though, especially as it would still have its uses (for Combat Pool, etc.).