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OverdrivePrime
2009-06-09, 11:10 AM
Hi All,
I was just reading up on some Horizon Walker builds and I've got a question about the wording of the "Aligned (Planar)" ability.


Aligned (Planar)

You have the instinctive ability to mimic the dominant alignment of the plane. You incur none of the penalties for having an alignment at odds with that of the plane, and spells and abilities that harm those of the opposite alignment don’t affect you. You have the dominant alignment of the plane with regard to magic, but your behavior and any alignment-related Class Features you have are unaffected.
Is a character with this ability permanently immune to effects based on alignment, or must the character be on an aligned plane for this ability to take effect?

For example, if a character with this ability is fighting an evil cleric, is he normally immune to the effect of Blasphemy, or does the character need to be on an evil-aligned plane for this immunity to kick in?

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-09, 11:11 AM
You take the Horizonwalker abilities with you everywhere.

Killer Angel
2009-06-09, 11:12 AM
Every terrain mastery you have, it's always applied, regardless of the terrain (or Plain) you're in.

As reported by SRD (and bolded for convenience):

Terrain Mastery: At each level, the Horizon Walker adds a new terrain environment to their repertoire from those given below.
(snip)
Horizon walkers take their terrain mastery with them wherever they go. They retain their terrain mastery bonuses on skill checks, attack rolls, and damage rolls whether they’re actually in the relevant terrain or not.

Planar Terrain Mastery: Planar terrain mastery functions just like terrain mastery, except that the horizon walker can choose one of the planar categories at each level. The horizon walker can take a non-planar terrain type instead, if she wishes.

OverdrivePrime
2009-06-09, 11:16 AM
Wow. That's really making me rethink this PRC. I used to think that except for the Shifting ability it was a step down in power from a full ranger or barbarian, but hmm... that's very interesting. Thanks for the help!

lesser_minion
2009-06-09, 11:16 AM
All Horizon Walker abilities work no matter where they are, unless the abilities themselves state otherwise - see the explanation of Terrain Masteries and the note that Planar Terrain masteries work in the exact same way.

This means that an HW who takes Aligned Planar Terrain Mastery becomes forever immune to any effect based on harming those of an opposed alignment, regardless of her own alignment.

The best terrain masteries to take include Desert and Underground. For Planar Terrains, consider taking Shifting and Cavernous as well.

Had they not had the option to take terrain masteries wherever they go, Shifting would actually have been useless.

Using only the three core rulebooks, IIRC the best melee build possible is a trip build going into HW. I can't remember which thread has the full details though.

EDIT - it's here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80415)

Devils_Advocate
2009-06-09, 02:29 PM
The wording of the ability is less than clear. It says that you have the ability to functionally have the dominant alignment of the plane with regard to magic. Two things need clarifying here:

1. What's "the plane"? Is it whatever plane you're on at the time, or a single plane of your choice?
2. Do you automatically mimic the plane's dominant alignment all the time, or can this ability be turned on and off at will? If it can, what sort of action does that take?

I suggest the answers:

1. Whatever plane you happen to be on.
2. You can activate or deactivate this ability as a standard action.

I have no RAW basis for these answers, but they seem reasonable to me.

Note that the material and all of the transitive planes are all mildly Neutral-aligned.

Is a character with this ability permanently immune to effects based on alignment, or must the character be on an aligned plane for this ability to take effect?

For example, if a character with this ability is fighting an evil cleric, is he normally immune to the effect of Blasphemy, or does the character need to be on an evil-aligned plane for this immunity to kick in?
"The plane", whatever one takes that to mean, needs to be Evil-aligned in order to make a non-Evil Horizon Walker immune to Blasphemy.

What "the opposite alignment" means, in context, is an alignment opposite the plane's.

Quietus
2009-06-09, 03:10 PM
Wow. That's really making me rethink this PRC. I used to think that except for the Shifting ability it was a step down in power from a full ranger or barbarian, but hmm... that's very interesting. Thanks for the help!

Nice thing to note; One level of Horizon Walker gets you Desert terrain mastery, making you immune to fatigue. No more downside to your Rages wearing off, aside from losing Rage benefits!

lesser_minion
2009-06-09, 03:48 PM
Tremorsense is also nice.

The class actually has quite a few goodies for those who take it.

Devil's Advocate does make a good point though - the ability is pretty confusingly worded, and while I'm pretty sure that the intent is that each clause is separate (she remains unaffected by spells designed to harm those of an opposed aligment, and suffers no ill-effects from being on planes dedicated to opposed alignments) - as this fits best with the remaining abilities provided to the class - not all DMs will accept that ruling.

My actual impression is that you might be expected to choose a particular alignment subtype opposed to one of your own, and that you would then be immune to that plane, and to that alignment's "smiting" spells. That makes more sense than having the ability work based on your current plane (as this fits the theme and context of the class a bit better), and could prove more useful in game.

Even so, while it is a decent ability, it is hardly about to break the game, and isn't necessarily even all that powerful. It certainly pales by comparison to Shifting.

Eldariel
2009-06-09, 04:02 PM
Tremorsense is also nice.

The class actually has quite a few goodies for those who take it.

Devil's Advocate does make a good point though - the ability is pretty confusingly worded, and while I'm pretty sure that the intent is that each clause is separate (she remains unaffected by spells designed to harm those of an opposed aligment, and suffers no ill-effects from being on planes dedicated to opposed alignments) - as this fits best with the remaining abilities provided to the class - not all DMs will accept that ruling.

My actual impression is that you might be expected to choose a particular alignment subtype opposed to one of your own, and that you would then be immune to that plane, and to that alignment's "smiting" spells. That makes more sense than having the ability work based on your current plane (as this fits the theme and context of the class a bit better), and could prove more useful in game.

Even so, while it is a decent ability, it is hardly about to break the game, and isn't necessarily even all that powerful. It certainly pales by comparison to Shifting.

It's very noteworthy as one of the only counters to the Blasphemy-line that can insta-KO just about anyone with high CL (as long as you penetrate SR, which high CL conveniently helps with).

lesser_minion
2009-06-09, 04:05 PM
I know that in actual play I'd allow the ability to negate all anti-alignment spells, but require the player to choose an alignment to appear as for purposes of detect magic et al.

I'm just wondering whether or not the RAW/RAI are as permissive.

I don't consider countering Blasphemy to be particularly major, even though the spell can be utterly horrible. It's like ruling that Toril doesn't exist in your cosmology therefore you can never become a valid target for Manipulate Form