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Archpaladin Zousha
2009-06-09, 01:43 PM
This combo was suggested to me to make a paladin who did well as a Feyliege, and that the combo had good resistances. I'm wondering how this unusual character would be built.

I only know a few things that NEED to be in this build:

The character needs to be a half-elf
Arcane Prodigy (from the PHB 2) would be the multiclass feat
Essence Mage would be the paragon path
Feyliege would be the epic destiny

Here are a few things that I would WANT in the build:

I would definately like a familiar of some sort, most likely a dragonling, since they're cute and the picture of the Feyliege has that awesome purple dragon with him.
I want the greatsword to be my weapon of choice, since it seems like every paladin build and their dog uses a weapon that requires a proficiency feat.
I was wondering if the character could worship Moradin, since every character I've played in 4e has worshiped either Pelor or Amaunator, and I'd like to change things up a bit. I'm also not too interested in Corellon, though that fits flavorwise, because he's Unaligned, and I feel that Unaligned does not a paladin make. Call me old-fashioned.
I was hoping to add the Warsmith background from the "Characters of War" Dragon article, which is partly why I was interested in Moradin.
I've been wondering about taking a feat to gain training in Athletics, because I want to be good at climbing and swimming.
Finally I was wondering about the Ritual Caster feat. Since Paladins are immediately trained in Religion, and I'll get training in Arcana from the Sorcerer multiclass, I'll have a wide variety of rituals available. If I train in Heal, I'll also have the all-important Raise Dead in my repetoire. And I can also take Enchant Magic Item, since I'll have the Arcana training for it.

What would be the most effective way to build this? What equipment would work best? Is there any way to justify this combo in a roleplaying sense?

Thank you for your kind attention. :smallsmile:

NPCMook
2009-06-09, 01:59 PM
Have you considered making him a Paladin|Sorcerer? Doesn't really save you a feat per say...

Nevermind your AC would suffer to much

hamishspence
2009-06-09, 02:14 PM
Faerun 4th ed Corellon is Good, might pass muster.

Kurald Galain
2009-06-09, 02:18 PM
Familiar is easy. Just grab the familiar feat and you're done. Dragonlings don't give any particular bonuses that paladins would care about, but they're pretty cool anyway.

Greatsword is decent, and most exotic weapons aren't worth the feat anyway.

Mechanically, the best deity is Tempus. That said, why does a half-elf worship Moradin, a dwarf god?

Instead of wasting a feat on a skill, I'd suggest picking your starting region (or background) so that Athletics counts as a class skill. Note that if you're going to be a chaladin, you won't be very good at climbing anyway.

Don't take Ritual Caster, because most rituals are a complete waste of time and money, and those that aren't tend to be the wizard's job. You can always take a few scrolls along for Raise Dead, and note how you can buy magical items for the same amount of money it would cost to enchant them.

Pick either straladin or chaladin and stick with it; don't try to be both. For what it's worth, chaladin is slightly stronger. It depends on your party whether you should focus on healing or on doing damage; don't worry overly much about defending people, because paladins aren't very good at that.

Put at least an 18 in your primary attack ability, possibly more, and increase it at every opportunity. Don't try to keep all your bases covered, it won't work; instead, specialize. And keep an eye out for Divine Power, which will likely boost your power by a lot.

RTGoodman
2009-06-09, 02:30 PM
I'm loading up the Character Builder now to hammer a basic build together, but off the top of my head I'll say, first, an important feat is Arcane Implement Proficiency (Heavy Blade). That'll let you use your greatsword as your sorcerer implement.

Also, Corellon may be Unaligned, but a Paladin of Corellon could be any alignment, so Lawful Good or Good works. He's the god of Fey and "finding beauty in everything you do," including arcane magic and the arts of war.


EDIT: Also, the Warsmith background means you don't have to take Ritual Caster anyway - it lets you use Creation rituals as if you had the feat.

RTGoodman
2009-06-09, 03:42 PM
Here's a the quick version I threw together. Not necessarily the most optimized, but he's definitely playable. Charisma is the workhorse of the build, for weapon attacks, divine implement attacks (through the Holy Avenger), arcane implement attacks (through Arcane Implement Proficiency), and melee basic attacks (through Melee Training). Con gets you some hit points, and Wis boosts a lot of Paladin ability, even though it's useless defense-wise because your Cha is always better. Defenses aren't BAD, though, and you could even drop the greatsword in favor of a longsword or bastard sword (with a feat) to grab a shield and boost up AC and Reflex a little more. (I did definitely take Paragon/Robust Defenses, though, like I do with all the high-level characters I've built.)

The character would be a single-target defender/striker with a touch of crowd/area-control. Most powers focus on dealing and effects to shut down a single foe either at range (via implement powers) or up close with weapon and close-burst powers. You can choose different Sorcerer powers to expand your control or multi-target damage, and that's probably the best way to get ACTUAL use out of the dragonling familiar.

Fluff-wise, Adran (the random name the CharBuilder gave him) is a half-elf devotee of Corellon and seeks to defend the god's portfolio (fey creatures, arcane magic, crafts and the arts). He's much like a normal Paladin, defending his allies, healing them, and providing various buffs for everyone, but he has a few tricks up his sleeve because of his sorcerous training.

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======
Adran, level 30
Half-Elf, Paladin, Essence Mage, Feyliege
Build: Avenging Paladin
Arcane Implement Proficiency: Arcane Implement Proficiency (heavy blade group)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 18, Dex 15, Int 12, Wis 22, Cha 28.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 14, Dex 13, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 16.


AC: 46 Fort: 42 Reflex: 40 Will: 43
HP: 207 Surges: 14 Surge Value: 51

TRAINED SKILLS
Religion +21, Endurance +22, Intimidate +29, Diplomacy +31, Arcana +21

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +15, Bluff +24, Dungeoneering +21, Heal +21, History +16, Insight +23, Nature +21, Perception +21, Stealth +15, Streetwise +24, Thievery +15, Athletics +13

FEATS
Level 1: Arcane Prodigy
Level 2: Arcane Implement Proficiency
Level 4: Novice Power
Level 6: Melee Training (Charisma)
Level 8: Acolyte Power
Level 10: Adept Power
Level 11: Healing Hands
Level 12: Arcane Familiar
Level 14: Paragon Defenses (retrained to Robust Defenses at Level 21)
Level 16: Armor Specialization (Plate)
Level 18: Implement Expertise (Heavy Blade)
Level 20: Uncanny Dodge
Level 21: Blind-Fight
Level 22: Epic Reflexes
Level 24: Epic Resurgence
Level 26: Font of Radiance
Level 28: Epic Fortitude
Level 30: Sorcerous Flux

POWERS
Paladin at-will 1: Bolstering Strike
Paladin at-will 1: Enfeebling Strike
Dilettante: Arcing Fire

Paladin encounter 1: Fearsome Smite
Paladin encounter 3: Righteous Smite
Paladin encounter 7: Beckon Foe
Paladin encounter 13: Entangling Smite (retrained to Dazzling Starlight at Novice Power) (replaces Righteous Smite)
Paladin encounter 17: Hand of the Gods (replaces Beckon Foe)
Paladin encounter 23: Here Waits Thy Doom (replaces Hand of the Gods)
Paladin encounter 27: Brand of Judgment (replaces Fearsome Smite)


Paladin daily 1: On Pain of Death
Paladin daily 5: Sign of Vulnerability
Paladin daily 9: One Stands Alone
Paladin daily 15: True Nemesis (replaces One Stands Alone)
Paladin daily 19: Corona of Blinding Radiance (retrained to Day and Night at Adept Power) (replaces Sign of Vulnerability)
Paladin daily 25: To the Nine Hells with You (replaces On Pain of Death)
Paladin daily 29: Even Hand of Justice (replaces True Nemesis)

Paladin utility 2: Martyr's Blessing (retrained to Sorcerous Sirocco at Acolyte Power)
Paladin utility 6: Wrath of the Gods
Paladin utility 10: Turn the Tide
Paladin utility 16: Angelic Intercession
Paladin utility 22: United in Faith

Essence Mage Encounter 11: Essence of Arcane Blood
Essence Mage Utility 12: Essence Form
Essence Mage Daily 20: Protective Essence

Feyliege Utility 26: Shields of the Eladrin Host

ITEMS
Holy Avenger Greatsword +6, Godplate Armor of Sacrifice +6, Mantle of Faith +6
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======

Artanis
2009-06-09, 03:50 PM
I was wondering if the character could worship Moradin, since every character I've played in 4e has worshiped either Pelor or Amaunator, and I'd like to change things up a bit. I'm also not too interested in Corellon, though that fits flavorwise, because he's Unaligned, and I feel that Unaligned does not a paladin make. Call me old-fashioned.
There's no reason you can't worship Moradin. He's no longer the God of Dwarves, but merely Dwarves' favorite deity.

That said, Kurald Galain is right in that you'd need an explanation for why a Half-Elf worships the god that Dwarves tend to favor. It might make for some good RP fodder :smallsmile:

Archpaladin Zousha
2009-06-09, 04:04 PM
I was thinking about the story being that while he was a half-elf, he was adopted by a dwarf family, who raised him like a good dwarf child, extolling the values of family, virtue and hard work, so becoming a paladin seemed natural to him, since he was more charismatic than his foster brothers and sisters. The Warsmith background was an idea mainly extending from the worship of Moradin. The reason I was interested in Athletics is because it's a skill that gets boosted by an artifact that I was thinking of having him search for, the Soul Sword, a greatsword (surprise, surprise).

I'm still trying to figure out why a half-elven boy raised like a true dwarf would have a connection to the arcane so innate that he can turn into pure arcane energy, and later becomes a king in the Feywild though.

Also, while the build appeasr solid, something confuses me. Wouldn't it be impossible to take Epic Reflexes AND Paragon Defenses? If I remember correctly, they don't stack, so it'd have to be one or the other.

RTGoodman
2009-06-09, 04:16 PM
Also, while the build appeasr solid, something confuses me. Wouldn't it be impossible to take Epic Reflexes AND Paragon Defenses? If I remember correctly, they don't stack, so it'd have to be one or the other.

Epic Fort/Reflex/Will is a +4 bonus (i.e., an unnamed bonus), but Robust Defenses is a +2 feat bonus.


As far as god, though, it doesn't really matter TOO much. Fluff-wise I think it'd be much harder to figure out Moradin than Corellon, especially with your Paragon Path and Epic Destiny. Corellon's focus on the arcane arts could also explain the spontaneous magical abilities. Moradin, though, does have a tendency to make lots of magical items and artifacts (in the lore, at least) so I suppose a connection to helping forge magical items (or an explosion/mishap in the magical forge) could explain the sorcerous abilities, too.

As far as Athletics, you could certainly drop a feat (Healing Hands, etc.) for Skill Training. With a low Str, though (I assume you'd rather focus on Cha than Str as a Sorcerer multiclass), it's not gonna be a HUGE difference (especially with the check penalty from plate armor anyway).

Rockphed
2009-06-09, 04:24 PM
I'm still trying to figure out why a half-elven boy raised like a true dwarf would have a connection to the arcane so innate that he can turn into pure arcane energy, and later becomes a king in the Feywild though.

Obviously his adoptive family are magic-weaponsmiths. Furthermore, because he has that elven blood(good for channeling magic through) he has spent quite a bit of time in the forge helping his father with the axes and hammers. It could even become a point of pride that he refuses to use a weapon made by the inferior races(i.e. non-dwarves).

Are you intentionally modeling this character after Carrot Ironfounderson?

Archpaladin Zousha
2009-06-09, 04:27 PM
Epic Fort/Reflex/Will is a +4 bonus (i.e., an unnamed bonus), but Robust Defenses is a +2 feat bonus.


As far as god, though, it doesn't really matter TOO much. Fluff-wise I think it'd be much harder to figure out Moradin than Corellon, especially with your Paragon Path and Epic Destiny. Corellon's focus on the arcane arts could also explain the spontaneous magical abilities. Moradin, though, does have a tendency to make lots of magical items and artifacts (in the lore, at least) so I suppose a connection to helping forge magical items (or an explosion/mishap in the magical forge) could explain the sorcerous abilities, too.

As far as Athletics, you could certainly drop a feat (Healing Hands, etc.) for Skill Training. With a low Str, though (I assume you'd rather focus on Cha than Str as a Sorcerer multiclass), it's not gonna be a HUGE difference (especially with the check penalty from plate armor anyway).
You've got a point there. The creation of magic items was kind of in the back of my mind when I picked Moradin.

I was sort of thinking of the tale of King Laurin, a dwarf king who abducted a human princess and married her. Though he kidnapped his wife, his gentle behaviour and his devoted love for her eventually won her over. He used his dwarf magic (This is one of those stories where dwarves are considered part of the Fair Folk) to create a magnificent garden, just for her, with blooms so fragarant they could be smelt all the way down the mountains in the princess's, now a queen, homeland. Her brother eventually came with a host of knights to bring her back, but she declined, informing them that she was happy with Laurin. Her brother relented, but one of his knights would have none of it, breaking the code of hospitality by attacking Laurin. Laurin eventually was beaten, after the knight took the magic belt that gave him his strength. Then the queen was carried off, and King Laurin was taken prisoner, forced to dance on a barrel with a dog's collar and leash around his neck for the amusement of the knights. He eventually escaped and returned to his kingdom, but he closed it from the world of men forever, mourning the love he had lost, and the garden he'd made for her, that was never as beautiful ever again.

What if my character eventually led his adopted dwarven family to live in the Feywild with him, forming a clan that makes objects of unparalleled beauty, and living in harmony with their fey neighbors?

EDIT: And yes, Carrot somehow got in there. Almost any non-dwarf character raised by dwarves has a little bit of Carrot in him or her.:smallwink:

Colmarr
2009-06-09, 05:49 PM
As Artanis mentioned, Moradin is no longer the god of the dwarves (or even Dwarven himself), so there's no need for there to be a link to dwarves in the character's backstory.

Apprentice to a blacksmith or adopted/(il)legitimate son of a (great) stonemason are both good justifications for going into Moradin's service as a paladin.

Hell, having your village razed by attackers with the only survivors being the ones sheltering in the solidly-contructed shrine to Moradin is a better reason than many.

Archpaladin Zousha
2009-06-09, 07:12 PM
As Artanis mentioned, Moradin is no longer the god of the dwarves (or even Dwarven himself), so there's no need for there to be a link to dwarves in the character's backstory.

Apprentice to a blacksmith or adopted/(il)legitimate son of a (great) stonemason are both good justifications for going into Moradin's service as a paladin.

Hell, having your village razed by attackers with the only survivors being the ones sheltering in the solidly-contructed shrine to Moradin is a better reason than many.

True, but dwarves are all kinds of awesome!:smalltongue:

Archpaladin Zousha
2009-06-10, 04:32 PM
What do you people think of the idea of my character being raised by dwarves and wanting to lead his adopted clan into the Feywild to start a dwarven colony where he would forge amazing magic stuff and grow a garden where the flowers are made of gold, silver and gems, but still living things?

NecroRebel
2009-06-10, 04:39 PM
What do you people think of the idea of my character being raised by dwarves and wanting to lead his adopted clan into the Feywild to start a dwarven colony where he would forge amazing magic stuff and grow a garden where the flowers are made of gold, silver and gems, but still living things?

That actually sounds pretty cool to me, and kind of fuses the elven and dwarven loves of growing things and money. It also harkens back to Ye Olden Dayse when dwarves were sometimes thought of as a sort of Fey.

Tengu_temp
2009-06-10, 05:01 PM
Are you set on using a greatsword? Charisma-based paladins generally are more defensive than strength-based ones, so a longsword + heavy shield combo would be better.


Have you considered making him a Paladin|Sorcerer? Doesn't really save you a feat per say...

Nevermind your AC would suffer to much

Not really - at the cost of one feat he'd be able to use all armor.

Archpaladin Zousha
2009-06-10, 05:27 PM
Well, not really. I just chose greatsword because the Soul Sword is the most awesome artifact in 4e. If I were to use a one-handed weapon, I'd probably just drop a feat to get a bastard sword though. Bastard swords kind of rendered longswords obsolete for anyone who's not an eladrin.

Archpaladin Zousha
2009-06-10, 05:29 PM
That actually sounds pretty cool to me, and kind of fuses the elven and dwarven loves of growing things and money. It also harkens back to Ye Olden Dayse when dwarves were sometimes thought of as a sort of Fey.

Which is exactly what I was going for, especially after reading the tragic story of King Laurin.

cdrcjsn
2009-06-10, 05:39 PM
If you decide to take any more sorcerer powers via multi-class, you can take Arcane Implement Proficiency to wield any sword as an implement for your arcane powers (since swordmages use swords as implements).

Archpaladin Zousha
2009-06-10, 05:53 PM
The rudimentary build rtg0922 offered has that as the second feat in the build, right after Arcane Prodigy. :smallwink: