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shadow_archmagi
2009-06-09, 07:12 PM
So, fish people were attacking this city and then a bunch of them attacked the party so the party ran away and eventually made it to a different city which was about to be under siege so we stole a boat and started crossing this lake to get to the last city in line to warn them about the fish-people only we got attacked by a kraken.

Do we have any hope here? The party is a bard4/crusader4 and a cleric4/monk1psywar3. We also have something to the effect of 80 level 1s aboard that will help fight. My plan is to hit it with Leading The Attack and inspire courage to give all the refugees/saliors a decent attack bonus and then have them try to sunder the limbs away. I really want to see this thing owned because the Treasure By CR for a CR 12 with a treasure rating of "Triple Normal" is 30k, and the XP is 9000 (enough to level us both. Twice.)

Lert, A.
2009-06-09, 07:14 PM
Well, at least you won't have to worry about hitting if you can get enough of those level 1s to give you aid for your attacks.

deuxhero
2009-06-09, 07:15 PM
Depends, does Deus Ex Machima give you EXP?

Nothing says you DM is using the standard Kraken.

shadow_archmagi
2009-06-09, 07:19 PM
Well, at least you won't have to worry about hitting if you can get enough of those level 1s to give you aid for your attacks.

Actually it only has AC 20 which means that with +4 for the Raven and +1 for the courage and +1 for BAB and +1 for STR which comes to a total of +7 so I figured I'd just let the normies deal their 1d6, and then with an average of 3.5 damage per hit and 40% of them hitting that comes to an average of 1.4 damage per ally which means that for every 7 of them I can probably sunder one kraken arm which means he loses all his arms the first round.

My ally is a decent damage dealer so I can count on him to take out tentacles.

I'm thinking the real question is

"how do we stop it from getting away"

EDIT:


Depends, does Deus Ex Machima give you EXP?

Nothing says you DM is using the standard Kraken.

He's not very original, mentioned 290 HP, and had the monster manual open in his lap. The odds are good that he's using standard.

arkol
2009-06-09, 07:24 PM
The problem is that it's very unlikely that this kraken is carrying a backpack with loot worth 30k...

shadow_archmagi
2009-06-09, 07:26 PM
The problem is that it's very unlikely that this kraken is carrying a backpack with loot worth 30k...

I'd settle for the two levels, really. Sweet sweet XP. But massive gold would be a good gig too.

Lert, A.
2009-06-09, 07:28 PM
Actually it only has AC 20 which means that with +4 for the Raven and +1 for the courage and +1 for BAB and +1 for STR which comes to a total of +7 so I figured I'd just let the normies deal their 1d6, and then with an average of 3.5 damage per hit and 40% of them hitting that comes to an average of 1.4 damage per ally which means that for every 7 of them I can probably sunder one kraken arm which means he loses all his arms the first round.

My ally is a decent damage dealer so I can count on him to take out tentacles.

I think more of if you can weather a couple of full attacks (total of 4d8+10d6+66). A few aid anothers can offset the penalties of fighting defensively (and Combat Expertise if you have it).


I'm thinking the real question is

"how do we stop it from getting away"

It has a swim speed of 20ft. That shouldn't be a big problem. Unless it dives, then I'd figure out a way to use level 1s as depth charges. :smalltongue:

EDIT: Just looked again. Oh, yes, Jet. Hmm... thinking....

arkol
2009-06-09, 07:31 PM
Isn't there a rule that says you can't level twice from the same XP source?

Plus you're sharing that xp with 80 lvl1 guys no?

Accordingy to this (http://www.penpaperpixel.org/tools/d20encountercalculator.htm) (and using only 50 npcs, the maximum the calculator allows) that means you're getting 185xp.

Lert, A.
2009-06-09, 07:35 PM
Isn't there a rule that says you can't level twice from the same XP source?

Plus you're sharing that xp with 80 lvl1 guys no?

Accordingy to this (http://www.penpaperpixel.org/tools/d20encountercalculator.htm) (and using only 50 npcs, the maximum the calculator allows) that means you're getting 185xp.

Yes, you have to share. Unless a fair number of those 80 lvl1 guys happen to die off heroically before the final blow is landed. :smalltongue:

Also yes, you can't level up twice. You can level up once, plus receive enough XP to put you 1 below what is needed for your next level.

arkol
2009-06-09, 07:38 PM
Also yes, you can't level up twice. You can level up once, plus receive enough XP to put you 1 below what is needed for your next level.

Thus explaining why you should always have a prisioner cr1 or whatever critter with you. When something like this happens, just let it loose, and then kill it. :smallbiggrin:

Lert, A.
2009-06-09, 07:43 PM
Thus explaining why you should always have a prisioner cr1 or whatever critter with you. When something like this happens, just let it loose, and then kill it. :smallbiggrin:

Ding!

The rule does help out immensely when your team of players somehow off a CR14 baddie while at 4th level (which has happened in my group). They still get the loot as a short-term boon, but they can't just jump ahead three or four levels.

Eldariel
2009-06-09, 07:45 PM
Chances are the Kraken is going to smash you. It's somewhat like an underwater Dragon; an overwhelming array of martial abilities and few handy spell-likes (instead of Dragon's casting) with tons of HP, decent-to-good saves and no clear weaknesses.

Thanks to Jet, the thing is nearly impossible to run from (or to catch without Teleport-level magic) as long as it's in water. Thanks to Control Winds and Control Weather, flying is really hazardous when one of those is around. It has its AoOs to protect itself from Sundering. And chances are, it's going to identify the real threats (Int 21, Wis 20), that is you two, and Trip and Tentacle Rape you (once the Grab succeeds and it gets you underwater, it's all but over unless you have access to Freedom of Movement at least).


But yeah, if the Kraken acts intelligently, you won't stand a chance (it can just sink the ship from underwater; chances are you don't have the tools to fight it there and that's without going to what it can do with the environment)

shadow_archmagi
2009-06-09, 08:35 PM
Our DM isn't paying attention to the spell-likes, it only gets ONE AoO, its head isn't above the water (and therefore it can't identify me as the real threat) and it seems to be trying to kill the crew rather than sink the ship.

Eldariel
2009-06-09, 08:42 PM
Our DM isn't paying attention to the spell-likes, it only gets ONE AoO, its head isn't above the water (and therefore it can't identify me as the real threat) and it seems to be trying to kill the crew rather than sink the ship.

Without the spell-likes the fight isn't bad; Krakens are mostly just big tough brutes in that scenario, and if it's for whatever reason targeting the crew and not the ship, you aren't in an immediate danger. Although you can't kill it by just sundering its tentacles, you can force it to retreat. If either of you happens to have some of the stun maneuvers, you might be able to stop it from escaping once it's taken a beating and kill it before it recovers, but that seems unlikely.

Make no mistake though, you'll probably have to jump into the water (did you bring something that grants Freedom of Movement? Otherwise you'll never catch it) and prevent it from Jetting away if you want to try and kill it. That said, just driving it away = winning the encounter and should grant you the appropriate XP. So what I'd try to do is to get both of its Tentacles; that should force it to escape. You can go hunt for it later with appropriate equipment, but for that, you'll need to go underwater (and hunt for its lair, too; the upside is that you won't be getting its treasure anyways unless you do that) as it isn't just going to wait around the ship until it dies.

shadow_archmagi
2009-06-09, 08:45 PM
Yeah, trouble is we're not really going to have time for hunting its lair down. Lucky our DM decided to watch Pirates of the Caribbean instead of studying underwater tactics.

Toliudar
2009-06-09, 08:52 PM
If I were DM'ing, the real problem with your plan would be that there's no way that all 80 of those guys would have access to the kraken to attack in any given round. Even if you assume that some of them pick up reach weapons or the like, if the Kraken is off on one side of the boat, then you've got what - eight squares adjacent to it? Worse, if the kraken itself stays 20' away from the boat and just picks off people with its arms (the tentacles don't count as entering and exiting a square, so no AoO's for your level 1's).

Yup, the XP and gold are less of a concern than not dying.

bosssmiley
2009-06-10, 04:50 AM
Kraken vs two level 8 non-casters and a shipful of fodder? If the DM has any tactical sense at all you're going to end up clinging to a spar in a sea of wreckage...

Forget trying for the Dragger Down's phat lewt, and concentrate on just surviving.

daggaz
2009-06-10, 05:20 AM
Not to mention, as a DM there is no way I would let you deduct any dead lvl ones from the ECL of your party if they all get to participate as you imagine. They were there, and there were a lot of them. They took a hit, which is that much less damage for you to absorb, and they might even possibly have gotten some damage in on their own before they died.

Chalk this one up to your party + 80 lvl ones, which is far less xp than you are expecting. Really, the whole idea of no xp if you die thing is for PCs, not NPCs who arent really expected to level with the party. (tho in this case you might end up with a fair amount of level twos, just for kicks and shiggles!)

Thats if you had it your way tho of course.... If I were DMing, then you had better take BossSmiley's advice to heart, and pray for a strong wind. (in which case the fodder wouldnt affect your XP, but the only XP you would be getting is for surviving.)

Farlion
2009-06-10, 05:54 AM
My advice is similar to bosssmileys, but I'd abandon the ship right away. The chance of surviving in the open sea, swimming alone with a huge ship as a decoy, is far greater than trying to beat the thing.

And, chances are, the kraken might just first smash up your ship, while still mostly under water. Then you're really screwd.

Cheers,
Farlion

Pronounceable
2009-06-10, 07:03 AM
As mentioned, if your DM has the tiniest bit of tactical sense you're all dead. I wouldn't bet on trying to swim to the shore as it deals with the ship either. You're screwed, assuming your DM doesn't put on kid gloves.