PDA

View Full Version : lowballing a caster's primary ability score



Fitz10019
2009-06-10, 03:59 PM
If I am building a summoning/buffing cleric, is it okay to lowball the starting Wisdom, say Wis 16? I figure with summoning and buffing, that DCs are not a factor, so my primary casting ability does not have to break 20 anytime soon. Is this a bad plan?

Ponce
2009-06-10, 04:00 PM
16 isn't quite what I would call lowballing.

SSGoW
2009-06-10, 04:04 PM
low balling it would be no higher than 14

woodenbandman
2009-06-10, 04:06 PM
It's best to start with 15 minimum to get the ability to cast 9th level spells on time. But the bonus spells are definitely sexy.

Glimbur
2009-06-10, 04:09 PM
Depends what level you are. At first through fifth...ish... there's no need for more than 16 because that gets you bonus spells of a level you don't have. If you're using no save spells then that's fine.

As an aside, for a level 2 arena match my wizard had a 14 Int... and a 20 Con.

Optimystik
2009-06-10, 04:19 PM
As an aside, for a level 2 arena match my wizard had a 14 Int... and a 20 Con.

Was he a Dwarf?

JellyPooga
2009-06-10, 04:37 PM
Spamming your casting stat into the stratosphere is always a good idea, if not for the bonus to DCs, then for the bonus spells per day. A 20 in Wisdom will net a Cleric an extra level 1 spell over a Cleric with Wisdom 16. Not, perhaps, a priority but it is useful. Then again, if you're going for a non-spellcaster themed caster (is that an oxymoron?) like a Battle Cleric, then a high casting stat isn't as important as pumping Str and Con to make melee viable whilst your casting is limited to personal buffs (for which DC is irrelevant).

As a Summoner/Buffer Cleric, I'd say that you're going to need all the spells/day you can get, whilst your other stats can go hang.

Glimbur
2009-06-10, 04:43 PM
Was he a Dwarf?

No, gnome. Turns out Dwarf would have been better though.

If you are in a campaign, a high casting stat is more important than in an arena fight if both start at low levels, because in a campaign you will level and then want a higher stat for more DC's and spells and access to spell levels and such.

Zeful
2009-06-10, 05:14 PM
If I am building a summoning/buffing cleric, is it okay to lowball the starting Wisdom, say Wis 16? I figure with summoning and buffing, that DCs are not a factor, so my primary casting ability does not have to break 20 anytime soon. Is this a bad plan?

From a super-munchkin view point (read: I must be better than everyone else all the time), it's a horrible idea, because you could have a 20.

From actual experience, not at all, if you're not using super high spell DCs all your losing out on are bonus spells per day, which for a buffer is more important.

Fitz10019
2009-06-10, 05:33 PM
From actual experience, not at all, if you're not using super high spell DCs all your losing out on are bonus spells per day, which for a buffer is more important.

Sorry, "is more important" than what?

Drider
2009-06-10, 05:41 PM
Sorry, "is more important" than what?

Other stats, and more important as in, you should pay more attention to that part of the equation instead of save DCs.

In my opinion, 16 is okay for wisdom, get a fair number of bonus spells, but can put something higher somewhere else(like con) .I assume 16 is not the highest stat because it is "lowballing"?

yilduz
2009-06-10, 05:45 PM
Other stats, and more important as in, you should pay more attention to that part of the equation instead of save DCs.

In my opinion, 16 is okay for wisdom, get a fair number of bonus spells, but can put something higher somewhere else(like con) .I assume 16 is not the highest stat because it is "lowballing"?

If he's anything like some of the people I play with, it's probably his lowest stat. >_>

Anyway, depending on the kind of cleric you're playing, putting your second-highest stat in Wisdom is not horrible. Clerics can be good at a lot of things, Str, Con, and Cha can all be important for your cleric depending on how you want to play him.

Zeful
2009-06-10, 05:51 PM
Sorry, "is more important" than what?

Yeah I phrased that badly. For a buffer, spells per day are more important than save DC.

Fitz10019
2009-06-10, 06:28 PM
I assume 16 is not the highest stat because it is "lowballing"?

It is the highest, it's a 32 point buy game. I want some Con and enough strength to carry more than just his armor.

aje8
2009-06-10, 07:53 PM
From a super-munchkin view point (read: I must be better than everyone else all the time), it's a horrible idea, because you could have a 20.

From actual experience, not at all, if you're not using super high spell DCs all your losing out on are bonus spells per day, which for a buffer is more important.

Actually, from a pure munckin perspective, you want Charisma as your highest stat for further DMM abuse. But that's essentially irrelevant to the thread.


If I am building a summoning/buffing cleric, is it okay to lowball the starting Wisdom, say Wis 16? I figure with summoning and buffing, that DCs are not a factor, so my primary casting ability does not have to break 20 anytime soon. Is this a bad plan?
So wait.... you want Strength so you can carry stuff?! If you intend to focus on buffing youself into a melee monstrosity (and want or have to forgo DMM: Persistent) then it might be okay. But, if you intend to primirality buff others and stay out of melee combat then there's no reason to put you' wisdom that low IMO.

However, it actually won't be that much of hindrance for actual play.

Curmudgeon
2009-06-10, 08:00 PM
16 isn't lowball, but it's fine. I've started a Druid with a WIS of 13, and managed to boost it with ability increments and items so it wasn't a limiting factor.

Fitz10019
2009-06-10, 08:15 PM
So wait.... you want Strength so you can carry stuff?! ... it actually won't be that much of hindrance for actual play.

Well, I also don't want to be one Ray of Enfeeblement away from an instant coma, or zero mobility, both being tactically significant.

J.Gellert
2009-06-11, 03:50 AM
You can just keep a Bull's Strength prepared for that rare chance... Or use any other method that doesn't require you to spend (waste) precious ability points.

pingcode20
2009-06-11, 04:09 AM
I wouldn't really call 16 a 'lowball'. In all honesty, it's a perfectly good tradeoff, depending on how you want to build your character.

When rolling for stats, you can't always count on at least one 18 - odds are, you probably won't get one, and a 16 or 17 will have to do. Point Buy, that's 6 points you need to scrounge up from somewhere, and, well, sometimes you just want that 14 in Wisdom, for whatever reason.

Saph
2009-06-11, 04:40 AM
Yeah, 16 is not lowball. 14 is lowball. For 28 point buy (which is fairly average, and roughly equivalent to 4d6 drop lowest) a 16 is quite likely to be your highest stat. The standard array I use for non-SAD characters on a 28 point buy is 16 14 14 12 10 8.

For summoning and buffing, DCs are irrelevant, so your starting ability score doesn't matter much. 16 is fine (and at low levels is actually a lot more than you need).

- Saph

BooNL
2009-06-11, 05:11 AM
When point buying (especially 28 or 32) I usually don't go higher than 15, maybe 16 in a stat. For me, having the other stats in nice positives is more important than one superstat.

If using rolls (which I prefer), I usually put my highest roll in my caster stat. Unless, there's reasons to go lower. Like a battle cleric.

So, for me a 16 isn't lowballing at all, it's actually higher than I'd usually go for.

Fitz10019
2009-06-11, 05:18 AM
You can just keep a Bull's Strength prepared for that rare chance... Or use any other method that doesn't require you to spend (waste) precious ability points.

If your strength hits zero, it's too late to cast anything.

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

Dhavaer
2009-06-11, 06:28 AM
If your strength hits zero, it's too late to cast anything.

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

Ray of Enfeeblement can't actually reduce your Strength below 1. Sure, you'd still be vulnerable to Shadows or what have you with a low Strength, but RoE will just slow you down, not stop you.