Is anyone else suprised at how pissed Xykon was?

[paladinofshojo]

Before today, I always liked Xykon as a lovable wacky evil overlord but I could never take him seriously....

[Zanaril]

That's what he wanted you to think.

[Timberboar]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess you didn't read SoD.

If I'm right, you'll see Xykon in a whole new light once you've done so.

[derfenrirwolv]

He's always been casual about this because he has a reset button. He's like a kid playing a video game with a pocket full of quarters. It doesn't matter how many times he dies, he has another life thanks to the phylactery.

Having the phylactery threatened takes away that pocketful of quarters, it means he's now playing for keeps.

[EmeraldPhoenix]

I was. But I haven't read the books, through...

[JonestheSpy]

Yteah, I thought it was pretty interesting to see Xykon get serious.

Until now, he's always been confidant enough in his own power that he could treat it all as a joke, and maintain his "go easy on the naive young quester" attitude. But to be actually threatened, and not even in a confrontation he himself orchestrated (like attacking the Azure City Throne Room)? The wacky fun persona gets dropped like that.

[Optimystik]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess you didn't read SoD.

If I'm right, you'll see Xykon in a whole new light once you've done so.

Seconding this.

[Zevox]

You plainly have not read Start of Darkness. Its impossible not to take Xykon seriously after that, no matter how casually silly his antics get.

Zevox

[Milandros]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess you didn't read SoD.

If I'm right, you'll see Xykon in a whole new light once you've done so.

Thirding it.

Go, buy SoD - it's a superb book, one of the best things Rich has done - and yeah, Xykon is *nasty*. He's Evil with a capital "E".

[Menas]

Wow. Who would have thought creating a spoiler tag would be that intuitive?

[shadzar]

Everyone gets pissed when someone kill steals! :smallfurious:

[Pyro]

I'm half expecting Xykon to rage quit.

[Ted The Bug]

At the risk of sounding repetitive...SoD will change your views. Overall, I think it's Rich at his genius best.

[[TS] Shadow]

I may just want to non-conform here, but the level of anger shown in SoD was nothing compared to here. Sure, Xykon was really mean and evil in SoD, but he never showed this amount of anger; he kept his cool, for the most part. So I was a little surprised.

[Zevox]

Shadow;6263243']I may just want to non-conform here, but the level of anger shown in SoD was nothing compared to here. Sure, Xykon was really mean and evil in SoD, but he never showed this amount of anger; he kept his cool, for the most part. So I was a little surprised.
The Start of Darkness references were in response to the OP's particular statement he was unable to take Xykon seriously, not to the general surprise at his angry outburst.

Zevox

[Red XIV]

and yeah, Xykon is *nasty*. He's Evil with a capital "E".
And proud of it.

[Mr. Mud]

I'm half expecting Xykon to rage quit.

Heh, you took the words right out of my mouth... :smallamused:.

[Dire Platypus]

Nah, I'm surprised with his actions (meteor swarm down the throat), not with his anger.Come on guys, the phylactery is extremely important to him and he probably doesn't have a clue on how to find it now.

In his shoes I'd sacrifice tons of minions and blow up something big.

[[TS] Shadow]

The Start of Darkness references were in response to the OP's particular statement he was unable to take Xykon seriously, not to the general surprise at his angry outburst.

Zevox

Oh. Well, that shows how long my attention span is.

[Silverraptor]

The Start of Darkness references were in response to the OP's particular statement he was unable to take Xykon seriously, not to the general surprise at his angry outburst.

Zevox

We could point to when Xykon had his first coffee after becoming a lich. That showed him angry.

[[TS] Shadow]

We could point to when Xykon had his first coffee after becoming a lich. That showed him angry.

I was thinking about that, but it wasn't nearly to this extent. He was more pissed off than ligit angry.

[Zevox]

Shadow;6263491']I was thinking about that, but it wasn't nearly to this extent. He was more pissed off than ligit angry.
He was about to pop off Right-Eye's head, and threatened to yank out Right-Eye's spine and strangle Redcloak with it. That's pretty damn angry.

And pissed off means angry anyway, so same thing.
Zevox

[Silverraptor]

Shadow;6263491']I was thinking about that, but it wasn't nearly to this extent. He was more pissed off than ligit angry.

Oh yes, killing a succubus waitress and nearly killing Right-eye was just merely that he was pissed off.:smallannoyed:

[[TS] Shadow]

Oh yes, killing a succubus waitress and nearly killing Right-eye was just merely that he was pissed off.:smallannoyed:

Compared to this, I'd call it pissed off. Then again, I only lent a copy and don't actually own it to reference.

[Shadowbane]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess you didn't read SoD.

If I'm right, you'll see Xykon in a whole new light once you've done so.

Fourthing it. The coffee scene reminds me kinda of this.

[Xesirin]

Yeah, Xykon was scary when he flipped out in the café. No kidding.

Plus, you could also point to when Redcloak returned home and Xykon returned to round them up.

Or when Xykon was taunting Dorukan while spamming energy drain on him. (sound familiar?)

Or when Xykon gave his lecture to Redcloak after he realizes that Xykon had that "anti-positive energy" ring.

[Silverraptor]

Yeah, Xykon was scary when he flipped out in the café. No kidding.

Plus, you could also point to when Redcloak returned home and Xykon returned to round them up.

Or when Xykon was taunting Dorukan while spamming energy drain on him. (sound familiar?)

Or when Xykon gave his lecture to Redcloak after he realizes that Xykon had that "anti-positive energy" ring.

But he wasn't angry then. Just being intellegent, badass and evil.

[Duaneyo1]

Anyone remember the final minutes of Empire Strikes Back? When the Falcon warps away and Vader is so inconsolable that he just walks away? Sure he could of choked his second, third and fourth in command to death. But why bother when it won’t make you feel any better? In the next scene, Xykon will be that that kind of pissed. Unfortunately for the Order, I don’t think X is going to have any trouble remembering V when he sees him again.

[Silverraptor]

Anyone remember the final minutes of Empire Strikes Back? When the Falcon warps away and Vader is so inconsolable that he just walks away? Sure he could of choked his second, third and fourth in command to death. But why bother when it won’t make you feel any better? In the next scene, Xykon will be that that kind of pissed. Unfortunately for the Order, I don’t think X is going to have any trouble remembering V when he sees him again.

Unless V gets a haircut maybe.:smallamused:

[Duaneyo1]

Unless V gets a haircut maybe.:smallamused:

Yes, but X isn't really the type of guy think: "Gee, he kind of looks like that elf, but he could be innocent so won't kill him." More likely: That might be the cork soaker who got a way. ( Meteor swarm )

[Foryn Gilnith]

Yes, but if Xykon acquires a genocidal hatred for elves and bearded men, the Order of the Stick won't be relatively inconvenienced compared to the competition.

[Pronounceable]

How could ANYONE not take Xykon seriously after the Bouncy Ball of DOOM is beyond me...

[Callista]

Yep, that was Xykon's defining moment, at least for me.

[JonestheSpy]

Something that just occurred to me - interesting that Xykon completely stopped caring/forgot that O-Chul was supposed to be a valuable source of information about the gates.

[Kish]

When did Xykon ever show signs of caring about that? He was perfectly willing to risk O-Chul's life in his games.

[Assassin89]

Something that just occurred to me - interesting that Xykon completely stopped caring/forgot that O-Chul was supposed to be a valuable source of information about the gates.

Since when did Xykon care about O-chul, except as a form of entertainment?

[Zen_Heart]

Something that actually makes me nervous is how perfectly sadistic he was. Strangling was bad enough. That was abnormally physical and unnecessarily cruel. But meteor swarm down the throat?! That is scary. Especially since one of the victims was, on top of it all, robbed of the ability to scream or shout or do something to acknowledge the fear and pain.

[Callista]

You don't exactly expect a clean death from a lich, do you? We're lucky he's impulsive enough to settle for Meteor Swarm.

[Silverraptor]

Something that actually makes me nervous is how perfectly sadistic he was. Strangling was bad enough. That was abnormally physical and unnecessarily cruel. But meteor swarm down the throat?! That is scary. Especially since one of the victims was, on top of it all, robbed of the ability to scream or shout or do something to acknowledge the fear and pain.

The reason he did that because was because I think there's no reflex save to a meteor swarm inside of you.

[Callista]

Mechanically, it wouldn't be any different than just detonating the spell right next to their heads. Xykon did it just because he's that sadistic.

[veti]

But meteor swarm down the throat?! That is scary.

Why? Dead is dead. Casting down the throat is the D&D equivalent of putting a gun in the mouth: it just means that this time, he Wouldn't Miss.

[Foryn Gilnith]

But meteor swarm down the throat?! That is scary.

Oh, come on, you'll die quickly enough to not feel too much pain. It's not like having your nails torn off, your teeth pulled, your genitals lashed, and your mosquito-plagued body covered with feces while tied up over slowly growing bamboo shoots with a tranquilized and slowly waking rat implanted into your chest. Real people are scary. Meteor swarm at point-blank range isn't excessive, it's just absolute certainty.

[holywhippet]

Oh yes, killing a succubus waitress and nearly killing Right-eye was just merely that he was pissed off.:smallannoyed:

I think she was a tiefling. If she was native to the lower planes she would have been banished back to them when she was killed. She was torn in two which suggests she was a local.

[Elfey]

Yes, but X isn't really the type of guy think: "Gee, he kind of looks like that elf, but he could be innocent so won't kill him." More likely: That might be the cork soaker who got a way. ( Meteor swarm )

Heck, in SoD Right Eye had that plan. X's own plan to deal with that was to kill all the Goblins in 100 miles just to make sure he got him....

[EyethatBinds]

Half fiends have wings, tieflings do not. Succubi also have wings but are more likely to use their ability to look like anything to cover them up. Example: Sabine.

[alegollama]

Xykon's always been sorta obsessed with doing things in an overtly sadistic way. That's just the way chaotic evil people are. Given the chance, Belkar probably would do the same sorta thing, using a knife rather than a spell.

[Silverraptor]

I think she was a tiefling. If she was native to the lower planes she would have been banished back to them when she was killed. She was torn in two which suggests she was a local.

Does it really matter?:smallsigh:

[JonestheSpy]

When did Xykon ever show signs of caring about that? He was perfectly willing to risk O-Chul's life in his games.

He cared enough to keep cooling his heels in Azure City instead of going off to the gate like he really wanted.

Not a huge thing, I'm just sayin' - he clearly lost is cool enough to not think about anything except killing them NOW.

[Dr. Cthulwho]

He's always been casual about this because he has a reset button. He's like a kid playing a video game with a pocket full of quarters. It doesn't matter how many times he dies, he has another life thanks to the phylactery.

Having the phylactery threatened takes away that pocketful of quarters, it means he's now playing for keeps.

Although even with that pocket full of quarters some might get annoyed if they just can't get past... that... one... level.

It might be a culmination of the entire battle with V and O-Chul. Xykon dominated, but V and O-Chul just wouldn't quit, and then they actually managed to give him a real scare and cause him real inconvenience. Thus managed to spoil his fun.

Like the saying goes, it's all fun and games till someone looses an eye (or in this case a phylactery. Or for Redcloak an actual eye).

[choie]

I wasn't surprised at all -- I've pretty much expected him to go absolutely, completely, utterly ballistic since it was revealed Vaarsuvius cast Explosive Runes on the phylactery.

I admit I haven't read the bound versions of the strips, where I know there are some extras that may prove me wrong. But from all I've read on the site and in Start of Darkness, I've never seen Xykon bear the brunt of such an outrageous, personal attack as he's endured from O-Chul and Vaarsuvius.

We saw that Xykon showed the beginnings of his rage in #655, when he threatened V for the elf's effrontery at using 'scry and die' tactics (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0655.html). Fairly understandable, since the battle had just completed and Xykon's dander was already up; this level of anger isn't unusual from X. Once the distraction of O-Chul was seemingly taken care of and V was once again in X's clutches, X seemed again to relish the thought of killing V bare-handed (or at least bare-phalanged).

Then everything went pear-shaped in a hurry. Apparently V managed to cure O-Chul without Xykon realizing -- strike one. O-Chul grabbed the phylactery and V, right out from Xykon's clutches -- strike two. Even at this point (#658 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0658.html)) Xykon said he was only starting to get a bit annoyed. (For some reason, Xykon didn't show as much anger at O-Chul as he did with V, maybe because O-Chul at least impressed him, maybe because O-Chul isn't a wizard. Xykon reeeeaallly hates wizards.)

Now stuff starts to get real. O-Chul successfully distracts Xykon for a few moments -- long enough for Xykon to waste time without realizing that his phylactery has gone missing; long enough for the wizard's cruddy little familiar to fly too damn close to the Rift. That's embarrassing. Xykon still laughs it off, still cocky, still thinking he's got everything under control.

And then he reads some runes on the phylactery; Explosive Runes. A spell Xykon would under usual circumstances probably dismiss as a glorified party trick. The equivalent of one of those springy fake snakes in a can of almonds, y'know?

Sure enough, Xykon's gets a face full of springy snake right in his ugly mug, and for the first time in a long time, probably since Soon threatened the phylactery, Xykon is genuinely terrified because his all-important phylactery is in real danger. Then it's gone, not in the Rift, but still, damn hard to find and it's partly because Xykon outsmarted himself with his own abjurations.

Strike three.

At this point, Xykon's gotta be thinking: Two nobodies did this. Not a big deal like Soon, not an army of Ghost Paladins or an Epic Wizard, but a pair of nobodies. One of whom is a pain-in-the-ass unarmed Paladin whom Xykon would gladly (should gladly) have flicked into oblivion at any time if it weren't for Redcloak (and where is that frakkin' goblin, anyway?!) who actually put his hands on Xykon's phylactery and distracted Xykon from killing a wizard.

The other nobody is a nameless, lame-ass elf, another goddamned know-it-all wizard, who broke up his castle and underestimated Xykon, then somehow managed to cure the paladin behind Xykon's back, and above all had the unspeakable temerity to trick Xykon into humiliating himself with a meager mid-level spell. That message on the phylactery might as well have said, "Guess what you just fell for, bonehead?"

Xykon is an audaciously proud, egotistical, cocky guy. Nothing sends such a personality into a blind rage like humiliation.

Xykon's first priority now is finding that phylactery. But after? Wouldn't surprise me if he goes out of his way to destroy the only two people to successfully inconvenience, embarrass -- and evade -- the lich.

[Optimystik]

I think she was a tiefling. If she was native to the lower planes she would have been banished back to them when she was killed. She was torn in two which suggests she was a local.

Demons don't always discorporate on death - FC1.

[Snails]

IMO...

Xykon prides himself on having figured out the real rules to The Game. And he has even rewritten a few, for his own amusement.

Getting ambushed by an Epic level Undead Paladin who had been lying in wait for centuries was pretty startling to Xykon, but he understood perfectly well that going after the Gates put him in the big leagues. Stuff happens.

But having two apparent nobodies kick sand in his face and take his lunch money, that is upsetting. It threatens to unravel his whole worldview. Other people are rewriting the rules, too.

If little nobodies can touch him, then the universe becomes a scary place chock-filled with boring-to-think-about potential threats. Xykon's frivolity may be a pretentious act, to a degree; but it is not apparent, even to Xykon himself, that he has the mental skill set to survive in such a universe.

[shadzar]

I just thought of something really funny.

Whether it be a joke, of Xykon really doesn't know; he rarely remembers who Roy is and why Roy is after him. Likewise he doesn't realize V is one of the ones with Roy.

V will get revenge when Xykon sees them all together in the future and get really mad at V for disappearing when his was about to kill V, and V will be like "I'm sorry, who are you again?"

:smallbiggrin:

You think X is mad now?

[JonestheSpy]

IMO...

Xykon prides himself on having figured out the real rules to The Game. And he has even rewritten a few, for his own amusement.

Getting ambushed by an Epic level Undead Paladin who had been lying in wait for centuries was pretty startling to Xykon, but he understood perfectly well that going after the Gates put him in the big leagues. Stuff happens.

But having two apparent nobodies kick sand in his face and take his lunch money, that is upsetting. It threatens to unravel his whole worldview. Other people are rewriting the rules, too.

If little nobodies can touch him, then the universe becomes a scary place chock-filled with boring-to-think-about potential threats. Xykon's frivolity may be a pretentious act, to a degree; but it is not apparent, even to Xykon himself, that he has the mental skill set to survive in such a universe.

Very well put.

And btw, no, I wasn't surprised by Xykon losing his jokey persona - as Chloie pointed out, the build-up was pretty clear. But it's been totally engaging to watch; I think it really switched at the line "You cheeky son of a bitch." I can totally imagine the soft, serious whisper of that line, dropping all playfulness and becoming no-holds-barred angry.

[Optimystik]

IMO...

Xykon prides himself on having figured out the real rules to The Game. And he has even rewritten a few, for his own amusement.

Getting ambushed by an Epic level Undead Paladin who had been lying in wait for centuries was pretty startling to Xykon, but he understood perfectly well that going after the Gates put him in the big leagues. Stuff happens.

But having two apparent nobodies kick sand in his face and take his lunch money, that is upsetting. It threatens to unravel his whole worldview. Other people are rewriting the rules, too.

If little nobodies can touch him, then the universe becomes a scary place chock-filled with boring-to-think-about potential threats. Xykon's frivolity may be a pretentious act, to a degree; but it is not apparent, even to Xykon himself, that he has the mental skill set to survive in such a universe.

Brilliant. 5 stars!

[Dagren]

I just thought of something really funny.

Whether it be a joke, of Xykon really doesn't know; he rarely remembers who Roy is and why Roy is after him. Likewise he doesn't realize V is one of the ones with Roy.

V will get revenge when Xykon sees them all together in the future and get really mad at V for disappearing when his was about to kill V, and V will be like "I'm sorry, who are you again?"

:smallbiggrin:

You think X is mad now?Ha ha, that's good. Yes, I can really see Xykon remembering V over this. I also wonder what Roy's reaction would be? He said at the trial that it wasn't personal any more, that he only cared for the world. However, his conversation with the big X on the dragon belies that somewhat. I wonder how he'd react if V got Xykon's attention like that?

[doodthedud]

I never took Xykon seriously either. The ball shocked me a little but it was also done in a fairly humorous way.

But by this point I knew he was about ready to snap. But it still scared me.

[Callista]

Xykon's use of meteor swarm is sadistic because the way he's using it, he's trying to cause the most fear possible. Not that this is going to work on a fear-immune paladin, but it's the thought that counts.

See, the point of torture isn't to cause as much pain as possible. That's only a side effect. The point is to prove that you completely control the other person, that they're so inferior to you as to be utterly insignificant, that they have no choice, no freedom, no identity. (Ask anyone who has lived through child abuse. The pain is never the point.)

Torture is about control. Dominance... being the alpha wolf, the person who gets to call the shots. Xykon is mad because he's not calling the shots.

Xykon was too angry to plan a really nasty death for anyone at that point, so he settled for making it very clear to them that he was going to kill them and they couldn't do a thing about it.

It's the Lawful bad guys who are the really good torturers. Chaotics can often be goaded into killing quickly if you get them mad enough.

[FoE]

For me, Xykon was far scarier in Start of Darkness ...

... when he learned that he couldn't taste coffee.

I searched TV Tropes and the best description I could find was Tranquil Fury. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TranquilFury) In that moment, I felt like he could do anything, no matter how nasty it was. I mean, in SoD ...

... he killed that waitress without a second thought, even though he'd expressed attraction to her when he was still alive. That was cold.

I think Redcloak came extremely close to being murdered at that moment. I think Xykon was literally capable of anything.

Ever watch Doctor Who? How about the Family of Blood two-parter? Then you kind of get the idea.

"He never raised his voice. That was the worst thing. The fury of the Time Lord. And then we discovered why. Why this Doctor, who had fought with gods and demons, why he had run away from us and hidden ... he was being kind."

[willpell]

The part of this whole incident that surprised me wasn't Xykon's sadism - I read SOD, I knew about that - but the fact that he's that upset about having the phylactery washed down the drain. Keep in mind, the phylactery is indestructible, and Xykon has no direct use for it whatsoever. All this means is that if someone kills Xykon, he'll regenerate at the bottom of the ocean or something and have a long walk to get back to his evil schemes. And meanwhile, nobody else can find it either, so they can't destroy it. If I were him, I'd think this would be a positive.

(Redcloak, on the other hand, is quite SOL since the phylactery is also his holy symbol, so no cleric magic without it. But Xykon not so much.)

[Callista]

The part of this whole incident that surprised me wasn't Xykon's sadism - I read SOD, I knew about that - but the fact that he's that upset about having the phylactery washed down the drain. Keep in mind, the phylactery is indestructible, and Xykon has no direct use for it whatsoever. All this means is that if someone kills Xykon, he'll regenerate at the bottom of the ocean or something and have a long walk to get back to his evil schemes. And meanwhile, nobody else can find it either, so they can't destroy it. If I were him, I'd think this would be a positive.

(Redcloak, on the other hand, is quite SOL since the phylactery is also his holy symbol, so no cleric magic without it. But Xykon not so much.)It's something he's not controlling. That in itself is enough to make an egocentric lich like Xykon furious. Then top that with nearly getting killed by V, getting tricked into missing the raven's departure, falling for Explosive Runes, of all things, and having his phylactery dumped into a sewer!

You're assuming Xykon is a logical thinker, but you have to remember he's chaotic to the max, not the kind of guy who sits back and plans strategy in the middle of a battle. He listens to his emotions--which at this point seem to have been reduced to either amusement or anger--and it doesn't matter if V and O-Chul actually hurt him; he's been humiliated, and he's not going to just shrug it off without at least vaporizing a few dozen people.

[werik]

*applauds choie*

[Athaniar]

I am not surprised. I have read Start of Darkness, and this is just in-character for Xykon, and it's part of why he's one of my favorite fictional villains ever.

[Dixieboy]

Yes, but X isn't really the type of guy think: "Gee, he kind of looks like that elf, but he could be innocent so won't kill him." More likely: That might be the cork soaker who got a way. ( Meteor swarm )
If he remembers it.

He didn't remember Roy after he blew him to bits.

[Snake-Aes]

If he remembers it.

He didn't remember Roy after he blew him to bits.

Roy is "just another knight in shiny armor coming to kill the accursed villain". Nothing personal, just work.

With V...well, now it's personal. If V re-joins the OOTS and gets to fight Xykon again, he'll probably remember.

[King of Nowhere]

I was not surprised at all, but Xykon managed to be REALLY scary. Giving that level of scaryness to a stick figure is impressive.

[Snake-Aes]

I was not surprised at all, but Xykon managed to be REALLY scary. Giving that level of scaryness to a stick figure is impressive.

You know that point where you notice that Horror is Worse Than Terror? Terror is wanting to go away, but Horror... horror is realizing the absolute lack of choice, where you can do absolutely nothing but hope it goes away. Xykon *almost* instilled that there. He was far worse in SoD, in multiple times. Specially the coffee moment. Oh man I don't want to be near him if he ever goes postal like that again.

[Ancalagon]

Have we seen Xykon THIS angry before (including SoD): No.
Is it a surprise (if you have read SoD): Not really.

There's no limit to his Evilness and now that he's pissed, it'll show. I'd not be surprised if he's starting wreak major havok in the city now, just because he is angry... and wants to see things die!

[Kaytara]

I think the coffee episode was LESS scary, to be honest, for one particular reason. He was mostly just taking it out on everybody without being angry at anyone in particular.

Here, on the other hand, Xykon is scary because he is focussed. It's not being able to taste coffee, it was his pride and power that had suffered a blow - and not by something abstract, not by the side effect of some unholy powerful ritual, but by two very specific and real individuals. Xykon is scary because, rather than simply being outraged, he is outraged at someone, and you can see him filled to the brim with the intention to completely destroy them in a deliberate, dedicated and single-minded way.

I'm sure others may feel that the random chaotic anger is more scary because of how unpredictable it is, but for me the fact that it's unpredictable means that it may turn out to be not that horrible, after all. Here, however, Xykon is outright bent on ending someone's life and won't be satisfied with anything else if he has anything to say about it, and by all the unholy powers, he DOES.

[Green-Shirt Q]

I actually expected Xykon to be more pissed then he was. I was expecting him to freak out, blow up his own lair, and scream gribberish at everyone.

I'm glad he didn't, though. I'd never take him seriously, then.

[Ancalagon]

I actually expected Xykon to be more pissed then he was. I was expecting him to freak out, blow up his own lair, and scream gribberish at everyone.

I'm glad he didn't, though. I'd never take him seriously, then.

Note: He DID blow up parts of his lair.

And I guess he's not quite finished with "being angry"...

[Green-Shirt Q]

Note: He DID blow up parts of his lair.

And I guess he's not quite finished with "being angry"...

*reads again*

I can't believe I missed that. :smallconfused:

Still, there is a lack of gibberish.

[Zolem]

He's always been casual about this because he has a reset button. He's like a kid playing a video game with a pocket full of quarters. It doesn't matter how many times he dies, he has another life thanks to the phylactery.

Having the phylactery threatened takes away that pocketful of quarters, it means he's now playing for keeps.

That's always been my interpritation with litches in gneeral and as such they are willing to take risks with their boddies if not their phylarachies.

Even though the phylarchie is in no imediate danger, it's as lost to the good guys as to the bad, Xykon doesn't know where it is. He's still got a bag of quarters, it's just he'll have to lose the game for a few clicks of the countdown to find it again. And then he'll be lost at wherever the thing finally was. (my bet is sewer labarynth because it is obligatory as the sign pointed out.)

[EmperorSarda]

Getting ambushed by an Epic level Undead Paladin who had been lying in wait for centuries was pretty startling to Xykon, but he understood perfectly well that going after the Gates put him in the big leagues. Stuff happens.


Actually Soon has been dead for maybe 50 years, considering the adventures of the Order of the Scribble (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html) happened 66 years ago.

[Spiky]

Anyone remember the final minutes of Empire Strikes Back? When the Falcon warps away and Vader is so inconsolable that he just walks away? Sure he could of choked his second, third and fourth in command to death. But why bother when it won’t make you feel any better? In the next scene, Xykon will be that that kind of pissed. Unfortunately for the Order, I don’t think X is going to have any trouble remembering V when he sees him again.

Shouldn't this remind you of Ep 3's last scene? Where Vader's rage starts inflating a steel room like a balloon?

[tomandtish]

Ironically, losing his phylactery in the rift MIGHT (and I do mean might) have been a better possible outcome for Xykon than the sewers. Consider:

1) It goes in the rift and is destroyed. Concerning, and he is vulnerable while it is destroyed, but he can eventually make another one (assuming he survives the onslaught of heroes in the meantime).

2) It goes in the rift and is NOT destroyed. I believe a lich can only have on phylactery at a time. Therefore, he can't make another one and if he dies he's either dead or regenerating inside the Snarl (presumably a bad thing).

3 (and where we stand so far): It's lost in the sewers. True, he has to find it, but so do any good guys. It's now a race, and if the good guys find it first, they can time destroying it to when they destroy him.

Just a thought.

[Kaytara]

Ironically, losing his phylactery in the rift MIGHT (and I do mean might) have been a better possible outcome for Xykon than the sewers. Consider:

1) It goes in the rift and is destroyed. Concerning, and he is vulnerable while it is destroyed, but he can eventually make another one (assuming he survives the onslaught of heroes in the meantime).

2) It goes in the rift and is NOT destroyed. I believe a lich can only have on phylactery at a time. Therefore, he can't make another one and if he dies he's either dead or regenerating inside the Snarl (presumably a bad thing).

3 (and where we stand so far): It's lost in the sewers. True, he has to find it, but so do any good guys. It's now a race, and if the good guys find it first, they can time destroying it to when they destroy him.

Just a thought.

Yes, but the whole concept of being able to make a new phylactery is a complete assumption. Sourcebook-wise, I think it doesn't give any final word on that, but even that's completely irrelevant, because a critical aspect of the story is definitely something the Giant would be willing to houserule if needed, especially if the sourcebooks are vague enough as it is. If the phylactery is replaceable, its role in the story is cheapened greatly. Drama dictates that it is better for it to be irreplaceable. Besides, Xykon really panicked there for a moment - it's possible that the phylactery is replaceable, but his reaction seems to suggest against it.

[tomandtish]

From Wizards of the Coast:


http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031212a

Go about 1/2 way down the page.

It does appear they can recreate a phylactery (assuming their life force was in their body at the time). Of course, I certainly agree with your point that Rich trumps Wizards when it comes to his story. Makes for a better story if the phylactery is a one-shot deal.

Of course, I had an even better thought in favor of your point. Even if it is replaceable, dose Xycon know this? He knew nothing about liches before becoming one, and doesn't strike me as the studious type.

[FujinAkari]

Xykon is actually scared... although he won't say it.

Remember, he doesn't know the specifics of V's triple-soul splice, and doesn't know it was a one-time offer. He likely knows enough about the splices to know having two of them is extremely unusual, and thus he has reason to worry that V might be able to simply get another soul or two.

Remember: Azure City was protected by the greatest magical ward against teleportation Xykon had available, and it didn't make a damn bit of difference to V... if V can resplice (which Xykon has every reason to fear) then he can simply pop straight over to the phylactery and grab it.

[Allan Surgite]

I find his anger perfectly usual, based on what I know of him, and it's not as if it's unjustified either; since Redcloak could have at least shouted out his Word of Recall, informing Xykon that something was wrong.

[DarkDain]

One of the major reasons Xykon is mad was just revealed, they had been in that castle the whole time just to get info out of the prisoner, who is now gone. And how long have they been there? BIG waste of time, all because of redcloak.

[spargel]

It's really more Xykon's fault the phylactery was lost.

[Sagittarius]

The critical question is: Why exactly is Xykon angry? Or more specific: Why is he angry with Redcloak?

I'd say his outbursts (especially the last one) are owed to the circumstance that he has been playing under Redcloaks rules for several months now. It was Reddies idea to stay in the city, it was his idea to keep the Paladin and it is him that is reverred by the hobgoblin population. The fact that the "glorious leader" statue has a distinct lact of skeletal features is something that has been driving Xykon NUTS over the past few months. Of course, being in a professional partnership helps to keep these minor dissatisfactions under control. But when some mid-level Wizard and a naked Paladin, each with a few HP left, manage to take away his phylactery AND GET AWAY WITH IT, they definitely contribute to the levels of anger that we see. What happens next is pretty logical: Xykon needs to affirm himself that he is the most powerful being in the area and that he is NOT being controlled by some random mid-level bags of goo, so he tries to shift the blame to Redcloak to minimize his own failure and wrenches the control of the city from him. Redcloak may have got away with this, but he made the error to say that he will "go give" the orders instead of "go relay" them. This implies that he sees himself as the leader of the city and not Xykon. Xykon sees the need to cut his lackey down a notch to establish his dominance in their partnership by imposing an arbritary penalty on him.

The actual level of Redcloaks failure in the events of the attack was pretty irrelevant. What got him the loss of the eye was coming for him ever since he ordered Xykon not to mess with his plans.

[Sutremaine]

Ever watch Doctor Who? How about the Family of Blood two-parter? Then you kind of get the idea.
Now there's a direct comparison I wasn't expecting, even though it did come to mind when I read the post on Xykon being pissed about having his worldview shaken up and his ideas pulled out from under his feet (see The Runaway Bride for that. The Tenth Doctor is scary when he boils over).

[Assassin]

Wow. Y'know, based on Xykon's previous reactions to various things, I half expected him to shrug it off...then kill something and reanimate it as a zombie. Surprise, surprise.

[Twilight Jack]

Shouldn't this remind you of Ep 3's last scene? Where Vader's rage starts inflating a steel room like a balloon?

No, it shouldn't. Because nothing this cool could ever remind me of anything from the prequel episodes. :smallannoyed:

[Zolem]

From Wizards of the Coast:


http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031212a

Go about 1/2 way down the page.

It does appear they can recreate a phylactery (assuming their life force was in their body at the time). Of course, I certainly agree with your point that Rich trumps Wizards when it comes to his story. Makes for a better story if the phylactery is a one-shot deal.

Of course, I had an even better thought in favor of your point. Even if it is replaceable, dose Xycon know this? He knew nothing about liches before becoming one, and doesn't strike me as the studious type.

Pssst! Thats 4th edition, we're talking 3.5 like the rest of teh strip.

[Foryn Gilnith]

It was written before 2004 started. It's almost 3.0, so where are you getting 4e from?

But in any case, Libris Mortis (a newer and more official sourcebook) explicitly states that liches can't make a new phylactery. A rule I choose to ignore, but still one that's there.

[Dork Lord]

Does WotC even have 3.5 material on their site anymore? I know when the new WoD came out, White-Wolf completely stopped supporting the old system on their site.

[Kairamek]

Does it suprise me? No. As others have said, I read Start of Darkness.
Does it make me worry for the PC's? Yeah. Xykon is down to business now.

Next time they won't have an overly dramatic reveal of the Trump Card to distract X so Roy can Hulk all over him. He won't give the hero a muligan to follow an adventure path and come back stronger. His quest is SRS BIZNS again. I'm really looking forward to the chapter foward (read: Author Commentary) in the next book on this one.

I am pleased we finally see this side of him in the comic. Ever since I read SoD I've had trouble seen X as the laughably evil bastard we'd all come to love... love to hate that is. I've reread the earlier books and I just can't see it. Oh sure I laugh, but I know under all that humor his is Very Strong, and Very Evil, and he does not have a problem making people's internal organs "distressingly external." Now those who have not read that origin story can share that creapy feeling. Huzzah!

[Zordrath]

I wasn't suprised at all. In his situation, I'd probably be just as angry.

I mean, O-Chul basically just flushed Xykon's soul down the toilet. Talk about insulting :smallamused:

[Weimann]

But meteor swarm down the throat?! That is scary. Especially since one of the victims was, on top of it all, robbed of the ability to scream or shout or do something to acknowledge the fear and pain.Now, I get your point, but that feeling is actually illusionary. It's like saying, "Hey, I killed this guy with a club!" and get "Well, at least you didn't kill him with a gun" back.

Now, if there was torture involved, I could get behind the sadistic claim. But if the game is instant death, there's really no degrees to death. Arrowshot or tactical nuke, you are still just as dead.

[Porthos]

From Wizards of the Coast:


http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031212a

Go about 1/2 way down the page.

It does appear they can recreate a phylactery (assuming their life force was in their body at the time). Of course, I certainly agree with your point that Rich trumps Wizards when it comes to his story. Makes for a better story if the phylactery is a one-shot deal.

Of course, I had an even better thought in favor of your point. Even if it is replaceable, dose Xycon know this? He knew nothing about liches before becoming one, and doesn't strike me as the studious type.

That article describes what happens if someone decideds to become a lich as if it were a prestige class. Well sort of. It is designed so that you can become a one over several class levels. The whole idea of this was instead of using Level Adjustment when turning a monster into a PC class, you could use actual class levels. It was the whole point of Savage Species (one of the last 3.0 books).

Now because they split up (and add/subtract) abilities over class levels, the resulting chartacter is sometimes not the same as a "standard" entry in the MM. So since Xykon didn't become a lich slowly over time (i.e. while leveling up) it really isn't the same as the one described in that article.

Nice find, however. Even if LM contradicted it later on. :smallwink:

[Callista]

Now, I get your point, but that feeling is actually illusionary. It's like saying, "Hey, I killed this guy with a club!" and get "Well, at least you didn't kill him with a gun" back.

Now, if there was torture involved, I could get behind the sadistic claim. But if the game is instant death, there's really no degrees to death. Arrowshot or tactical nuke, you are still just as dead.Yeah, see, it's not about how painful it is; not really. Xykon's move with the meteor swarm was a way of trying to make them feel utterly helpless, and that's the end-goal of torture. You don't need to actually cause pain for it to be torture, you know.

I once played a druid who got information about the layout of an enemy fortress like this:

We had knocked out two guards, low-level mooks basically. My character had the ability to speak while in Wildshape, a bear companion, and was at that moment wildshaped into a bear. So we tie up the guards, and heal one of them so he's conscious again.

Then my character directs her bear companion to tear the throat out of the unconscious guard (coup de grace), and says to the conscious one (getting right in his face so he can see the teeth), "Tell us what we want to know, or that happens to you."

The man talked, of course. Talk about a bonus to your Intimidate check.

Now think about it: My character didn't cause a single bit of pain to anyone. The guy that got killed was unconscious and the guy who was conscious didn't get hurt.

But how is that not torture? If it differs from torture at all, it's only by a technicality. Psychologically, it's the same thing. And that kind of crush-the-spirit move is exactly what Xykon was after.

[Kaytara]

The critical question is: Why exactly is Xykon angry? Or more specific: Why is he angry with Redcloak?

I'd say his outbursts (especially the last one) are owed to the circumstance that he has been playing under Redcloaks rules for several months now. .... This implies that he sees himself as the leader of the city and not Xykon. Xykon sees the need to cut his lackey down a notch to establish his dominance in their partnership by imposing an arbritary penalty on him.



...But how is that not torture? If it differs from torture at all, it's only by a technicality. Psychologically, it's the same thing. And that kind of crush-the-spirit move is exactly what Xykon was after.


Great analysis, Sagittarius and Callista, I think you hit the nail on the head. Xykon's shtick is all about being in control, being strong, he even talks about how Evil is all about how far you're willing to go before you admit weakness. Here we have this incident where two people of the variety Xykon feels the most contempt for expose aspects of his character as weaknesses by using them against him. His tendency to "educate" opponents with long rants? Awesome and badass, but a wizard uses that time to heal a paladin behind his back. Again ranting about his enemies' tactical mistakes? Makes him waste time before realising that they didn't make a mistake and that they ARE trying to get the phylactery away from him. Preaching about different kinds of power? Have it come back to bite him when a lame party trick spell blows up into his face and loses him his phylactery. His tendency to play with his "toys"? It's what got him into trouble in the first place when he decided not to kill the elf or the paladin outright.

He believed that he could get away with being only half-serious, with messing and playing around. They are just lame mid-level heroes, it's not like he actually needs to exercise caution around them, right? They can't do anything, because he is in control no matter what happens, because he is so badass and they are so lame.
What results makes it evident that Xykon made a mistake - he had what he thought was complete control over a situation and still managed to screw it up. And, well.... Control, like power, is just something that you ARE. If you can lose it by fumbling your attempt to grab the phylactery in mid-air when it really matters, you never really had any in the first place, you know? :smallwink:

Xykon is now trying to establish his own control of the situation, every situation, by beating down Redcloak, because rather than blame himself, he'd rather blame Redcloak for the fact that they were still there in the first place, even if it doesn't make sense. And what's more, the very fact of Xykon needing to actually establish dominance in such a brutal manner whereas earlier he didn't need to bother is an admission of failure in and of itself, somewhere, so that just makes him more frustrated. :)