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Choco
2009-06-11, 11:32 AM
I was thinking of ideas to include in a homebrew setting I have been working on, and was wondering how to make this work:

I want to make one of the gods basically be the god of fighting/combat. He would probably be worshiped mostly by barbarians, and believes in using your own strength to overcome any challenges. However, due to this mindset, it would not make much sense for him to have any clerics, as he does not actively aid any of his followers (in combat anyway), and in general views ranged weapons and magic as the tactics of wimps.

So yeah, any ideas how I could make this work? Maybe instead of clerics, his "clerics" would be modified fighters/barbarians that get spell resistance and some kind of protection from arrows?

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-11, 11:34 AM
Conan: What gods do you pray to?
Subotai: I pray to the four winds... and you?
Conan: To Crom... but I seldom pray to him, he doesn't listen.
Subotai: [chuckles] What good is he then? Ah, it's just as I've always said.
Conan: He is strong! If I die, I have to go before him, and he will ask me, "What is the riddle of steel?" If I don't know it, he will cast me out of Valhalla and laugh at me. That's Crom, strong on his mountain!

paddyfool
2009-06-11, 11:35 AM
There are already quite a number of D&D gods who do not or cannot grant power to clerics. I see nothing wrong with this idea.

Tiki Snakes
2009-06-11, 11:35 AM
Just don't have any clerics. Your Crom-type scorns their prayers for help. He's already given them the strength in their arms and the fire in their bellies. If they need more, then they don't deserve it.

any 'priests' of his would simply not be divine magic users. *shrug* I don't see any obvious problems with this. :)

Choco
2009-06-11, 11:36 AM
Yup, Pharaoh's Fist, you guessed the inspiration :smallbiggrin:

The problem is not coming up with reasons why he would have followers, but how to balance his followers against the other gods, who have clerics and magic

Asheram
2009-06-11, 11:39 AM
I can't see how there should be any balance.
If the warriors of this god are weak, then they will die. Such is the way of life.

Ent
2009-06-11, 11:40 AM
It's funny, I just watched Conan two days ago.

I think Krom did intervene sometimes, at the funeral pyre when the wind shouldn't have let the fire burn, and at the stone temple that is somehow engulfed in flame from a single brazier.

Tsotha-lanti
2009-06-11, 11:42 AM
Religion is also a cultural phenomenon; the culture that worship the deity would have some sort of shamans, although they might not have divine magic and powers. Maybe make the priests bards instead; they have lore and social abilities, and access to arcane magic that includes effects like healing.


Conan: What gods do you pray to?
Subotai: I pray to the four winds... and you?
Conan: To Crom... but I seldom pray to him, he doesn't listen.
Subotai: [chuckles] What good is he then? Ah, it's just as I've always said.
Conan: He is strong! If I die, I have to go before him, and he will ask me, "What is the riddle of steel?" If I don't know it, he will cast me out of Valhalla and laugh at me. That's Crom, strong on his mountain!

All R. E. Howard fans must make a DC 32 Fort save or vomit in horror.

Tiki Snakes
2009-06-11, 11:44 AM
More specifically, think of it this way.

One Cimmerian wandering the world caused all that trouble. An entire nation of the same? Yeeeah. Pray to your gods, when a hundred barbarians smash down your city gates, you shall need their succor!

In other terms, the focus on strength, independance, etc, you're basically going to see such devout groups tend to be more likely to have class levels, be armed, and proficient. Less commoners. Any holy wars would be ferociously bloody, and those picking a fight with our Crom stand-in's people would soon regret it from the sheer vigor with which it is resisted, the violence that is returned.

They are fierce, strong people. His 'clergy' may not channel his divine might, but that's because they don't have to. They channel their OWN might, and come screaming into battle armed like the juggernauts of destruction that they are.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-11, 11:48 AM
Yup, Pharaoh's Fist, you guessed the inspiration :smallbiggrin:

The problem is not coming up with reasons why he would have followers, but how to balance his followers against the other gods, who have clerics and magic

Raw manliness and tetosterone can overcome divine magic.

Tsotha-lanti
2009-06-11, 11:54 AM
More specifically, think of it this way.

One Cimmerian wandering the world caused all that trouble. An entire nation of the same? Yeeeah. Pray to your gods, when a hundred barbarians smash down your city gates, you shall need their succor!

...

They are fierce, strong people. His 'clergy' may not channel his divine might, but that's because they don't have to. They channel their OWN might, and come screaming into battle armed like the juggernauts of destruction that they are.

The entire nation of Cimmerians pretty much just kept the Aquilonians out and raided across the border occasionally.

And no deities in the Hyborian Age granted magic, as far as is possible to tell. Many or most sorcerers claimed allegiance to deities (although pacts with Lovecraftian monsters from "beyond the gulfs of space" were more common), but they all used magic in essentially the same way; and only very few groups of priests were sorcerers (Set's Stygian priests, Asura's priests IIRC).

It's not exactly a comparable situation to your standard D&D setting.

Coidzor
2009-06-11, 12:00 PM
Well, that depends on how many other religions he has gunning for him.

And what level of magic you have active in the world.

And if the nation of warriors, fighters, and barbarians manages to piss off any high level wizards

Choco
2009-06-11, 12:06 PM
The entire nation of Cimmerians pretty much just kept the Aquilonians out and raided across the border occasionally.

And no deities in the Hyborian Age granted magic, as far as is possible to tell. Many or most sorcerers claimed allegiance to deities (although pacts with Lovecraftian monsters from "beyond the gulfs of space" were more common), but they all used magic in essentially the same way; and only very few groups of priests were sorcerers (Set's Stygian priests, Asura's priests IIRC).

It's not exactly a comparable situation to your standard D&D setting.

Exactly the problem I have.... Everyone on these boards knows that a single lvl 20 cleric/wizard/druid can wipe the floor with an entire army of lvl 20 barbarians if "played right". So short of modifying the magic system to not be so overpowered I would have to give the barbarians some sort of equalizer...

To clarify a bit: Those who truly worship this god are out fighting the best they can, not preaching. I thought about making priests (using Cloistered Cleric variant rules) be old/crippled warriors who can no longer fight, but then once the high level spells set in there would be no excuse for them not to magic themselves back up to strength and continue as they were. Also, I could see him interfering to "level the playing field" a bit, such as creating unfavorable circumstances for the enemies if they overly use range/magic to their advantage.

Yeah, some good suggestions in there so far, hopefully in a day or so with y'alls help I can get this figured out :smallbiggrin:


Raw manliness and tetosterone can overcome divine magic

Yup, which was why I was thinking giving them spell resistance as monks have.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-11, 12:11 PM
Horribly high will saves would be more useful than monk SR.

And it's not like Barbarians can't have Sorcerers and Druids. Infact, that would make a lot of sense.

Choco
2009-06-11, 12:15 PM
Horribly high will saves would be more useful than monk SR.

And it's not like Barbarians can't have Sorcerers and Druids. Infact, that would make a lot of sense.

Normally it would make sense, but as stated above this god looks down on magic and even ranged weapons as the tools/tactics of cowards, and no true follower of his would dare take that big a blow to his manliness :smalltongue:

Oh, and anther thing that MIGHT be important, magic is in fact responsible for the slowly coming demise of this world, almost like in Dark Sun, minus the need to defile/preserve.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-11, 12:17 PM
There's also multiclassing into Martial Adepts. Iron Heart Surge is good against spells, iirc.

Tsotha-lanti
2009-06-11, 12:17 PM
Why would the barbarians need an equalizer? Most societies don't have 20th-level casters at their beck and call. NPC wizards of those levels tend to be solitary archmages, probably busy dimension-hopping or working on epic spells or something. Clerics of those levels tend to be at the direct beck and call of their deity.

There's nothing to really consider here. Not every culture needs clerics and such. Give them bards if you want a magic option. Adepts who use arcane magic, maybe. Both make good cultural priests, even though they don't use magic. If their religious leaders are also warleaders - which seems likely - make them barbarian/bards, maybe use the Skald PrC from Races of Faerūn or something.

Tiki Snakes
2009-06-11, 12:19 PM
Also the Savage Bard perhaps? But yes, TOB seems a good source of additional non-barbarian-class barbarians.

Asheram
2009-06-11, 12:21 PM
It'd say to increase the morale bonus to willsave while raging...
Give them endurance to elements..
Perhaps some bard ability with a battle hymn to their god. :P

Choco
2009-06-11, 12:21 PM
Ah good point, there IS Tome of Battle after all, I think that is all the "equalizer" they would need...

And I am planning at least 1 war between this god and one who has clerics, so there will be high level clerics to contend with. I basically started this thread to think of logical ways that these guys would stand a chance of even surviving a war against an enemy that has high level spellcasters.

Coidzor
2009-06-11, 12:34 PM
Well, what's the upper limit on NPC levels here?

How common are high leveled characters? mid-leveled? Near-Epics?

Choco
2009-06-11, 12:44 PM
Well, what's the upper limit on NPC levels here?

How common are high leveled characters? mid-leveled? Near-Epics?

Since I want to avoid the mess that is Epic spellcasting, I capped player and NPC levels at 20. High level NPC's are not as rare as Eberron, but also not nearly as common as Faerun. Basically your military/religious and sometimes national leaders are at or close to lvl 20, as are the mandatory hermit Wizards and various other organization leaders. Each individual great nation would probably not have more than 5 NPC's of lvl 17-20, not all of them being casters, but even one is enough to be a royal pain.

paddyfool
2009-06-11, 01:00 PM
You might find this discussion useful if you want to make your barbarian people truly different: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114367

Here are a few small potential game-levellers:

- A culturally specific prestige class that grants a short-ranged AMF to truly manly barbarians who are happy to forsake all kinds of magic (ranged weapons remain something of a problem, but are generally much less scary).

- Unique/more easy access to some kind of flying steed so that flying spellcasters aren't totally out of reach.

- Spellcasting allies (bit of a cop-out, but hey, Conan did it).

- Some kind of metal with anti-magic properties

- Deity sometimes intercedes to smite spellcasters or block their access to spells. He tends to watch battles with particularly interest, so more likely to intercede at those times. Possibly this intercession could be requested, but only by paramount chiefs etc.

Hat-Trick
2009-06-11, 01:13 PM
The only thing you need to do is make it so anyone who worships this guy just doesn't worry about magic. The god frowns upon magic and ranged combat. He'd even the playing field with unmatched SR and horrible wind conditions (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html). Maybe just Horrible Wind Conditions. The god of battle and storms.

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-06-11, 01:15 PM
Maybe a feat chain based on the Vow of feat chain from BoED, only not suck or broke?

So, things like this:

Vow of Nonmagic
Prerequsite: No magical spellcasting or innate magical abilities, including Su or Sp abilities; follower of <diety>; BAB 11+

You eschew magic in all forms, preferring the honesty of swords and strength. As a result, you automatically are considered to make a saving throw, if one is applicable. However, any spell cast on you, even Harmless ones, are automatically resisted, even beneficial ones.

Greater Vow of Nonmagic
Prerequsite: Vow of Nonmagic; BAB 16+

You have your very own personal anti-magic field, which covers you. Anyone you touch (either by making a melee attack or a touch attack, or a Grapple check) is also considered to be inside this anti-magic field as well. For a touch attack or melee attack, it is only considered to be inside the AMF until your next action, however if you grapple, they are considered to be inside the AMF until they somehow manage to get free.

One With The Elements
Prerequsite: Vow of Nonmagic; BAB +11

You gain resistance to elemental energies, by virtue of your manliness, and to keep weak wizards from being able to stand back and blast you with impunity with Orb Of spells. If you are affected by elemental damage that normally does not allow a saving throw, you get a Fortitude save for half damage. This will work with Mettle, if you have that ability.

paddyfool
2009-06-11, 01:20 PM
The only thing you need to do is make it so anyone who worships this guy just doesn't worry about magic. The god frowns upon magic and ranged combat. He'd even the playing field with unmatched SR and horrible wind conditions (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html). Maybe just Horrible Wind Conditions. The god of battle and storms.

This could work... perhaps, also, this deity subconsciously causes storms due to being rubbed the wrong way by spellcasting wherever it occurs; in such storms, lightning, hailstones and tornados tend to hit anyone casting spells and the general area around them. A mid-level or higher spellcaster could plan for it and shrug it off pretty easily, and it could easily be abused, but it would definitely discourage widespread casting.

Choco
2009-06-11, 01:32 PM
This could work... perhaps, also, this deity subconsciously causes storms due to being rubbed the wrong way by spellcasting wherever it occurs; in such storms, lightning, hailstones and tornados tend to hit anyone casting spells and the general area around them. A mid-level or higher spellcaster could plan for it and shrug it off pretty easily, and it could easily be abused, but it would definitely discourage widespread casting.

Yeah, I have been leaning towards this on the grounds that it will take no mechanical changes to the game. Perhaps he will watch the battle for a while and give his warriors a chance to triumph over magic/bows on their own, as that is one of their greatest honors. If after a few minutes of fighting, or in the case of wizards who love to abuse walls of force or something equally devastating for melee fighters, it looks like his guys can't win the fight "fairly" against these "wimpy" tactics, he will interfere in some way. The interference would not be a guaranteed victory for the warriors, as that would be dishonorable, but would at least give them a chance. Perhaps walls of force would suddenly fail, casters would be struck by lightning/tornadoes, an earthquake, etc.

And in case the battle is against the followers of a rival god, chances are this dude would be able to overpower his opponent's intervention since he would likely have a larger power reserve due to not sharing it with his followers :smallbiggrin:

Edit: Perhaps that could be one of the reasons he would interfere in the first place, to pick a fight with a rival god. Considering how much he loves fighting, he must be bored since ascending to divinity and not fighting nearly as often.

MissK
2009-06-11, 02:29 PM
Exactly the problem I have.... Everyone on these boards knows that a single lvl 20 cleric/wizard/druid can wipe the floor with an entire army of lvl 20 barbarians if "played right". So short of modifying the magic system to not be so overpowered I would have to give the barbarians some sort of equalizer...



Three feats you might like from the Complete Arcane:
Mage Slayer -- +1 Will Save, If you threaten a caster, s/he cannot cast defensively

Pierce Magical Concealment -- disregard miss chance resulting from spells, including Darkness and Invisibility, when fighting someone with Mirror Image you know which one is real

Pierce Magical Protection -- ignore AC bonus provided by spells

The last one looks great to me. Just imagine the look on a wizard's face when he takes full damage from something as simple as a high-level sneak attack.

Choco
2009-06-11, 02:33 PM
Three feats you might like from the Complete Arcane:
Mage Slayer -- +1 Will Save, If you threaten a caster, s/he cannot cast defensively

Pierce Magical Concealment -- disregard miss chance resulting from spells, including Darkness and Invisibility, when fighting someone with Mirror Image you know which one is real

Pierce Magical Protection -- ignore AC bonus provided by spells

The last one looks great to me. Just imagine the look on a wizard's face when he takes full damage from something as simple as a high-level sneak attack.

Those are nice!

Now all I really need is a way to get around forcecage/wall of force... maybe the more powerful of the lot would be equipped with items that can generate AMF's.

woodenbandman
2009-06-11, 02:56 PM
Psychic Warriors? Ardents?

The Physical Power and Conflict mantles are thematically appropriate. They use their sheer volume of testosterone welling up inside them to perform feats of epic strength! I personally like Psychic Warrior power list, but i find the lack of power points disturbing. Earth Power, ToPP, and perhaps Midnight Augmentation are all necessary.

Yora
2009-06-11, 03:28 PM
Exactly the problem I have.... Everyone on these boards knows that a single lvl 20 cleric/wizard/druid can wipe the floor with an entire army of lvl 20 barbarians if "played right". So short of modifying the magic system to not be so overpowered I would have to give the barbarians some sort of equalizer...
Uh! Uh, eh! Hep!

I have an idea!

Incantations.
So the problem is that the barbarians lack magical protection? As the god doesn't have any divine spellcaster, he can offer magical protection in other ways. As there's no hard way how an incantation is done, you could make some that fits the barbarians culture.
I study religion at university and there are have been many warrior cultures where some, but not all "magic" was done by priests. Many cultures had rites that involve the warrior to go alone into the wilderness and maybe bring a small offering to the gods to gain their blessing. Also, in very small places that had no own priest, many rituals are done by the head of the household.

So for these barbarians, the rituals could be like these. For example have them bring a sacrifice which only requires to slaying an animal the right way and calling the right words to the gods. Or a warrior sets out alone to hunt the first animal he sees and has to recite a special prayer while burning its meat in a small fire. More "exotic" rites could consist of the whole band of warriors singing hyms throughout the night, and in the morning they will be freshly rested and gain protection for their next battle that day.
Or an even cooler ritual: War dances. :smallbiggrin:

The effect might become active after the ritual is finished or under certain conditions tied to the ritual, like sunrise or at whatever point the warriors first fight the creature they set out to hunt for.

It probably works better at lower levels as you have a smaller selection of things to prepare for. To prepare against 20th level spellcasters, you'd have to have very powerful rituals, which might be to complicated to be practical.

Flickerdart
2009-06-11, 03:31 PM
You could have the god grant people abilities usually reserved for monsters, like Unstoppable or Awesome Blow.

Hat-Trick
2009-06-11, 05:03 PM
To be honest, I see no problem for the god to even the playing field by giving defense ONLY against the cowardly tactics of ranged combat, be it magic or mundane. He does nothing but defend his followers from those pitiful fools who can't trust their own arm and blade. That, or as long as they don't use magic offensively in combat, he should be fine with it. Unless he also hates the idea of magical healing and the like.

Ovaltine Patrol
2009-06-11, 05:10 PM
My homebrew setting features a religion where Clerics are replaced by Archivists. They grow in power through learning rather than faith, but otherwise serve the community as clerics usually do.

shadzar
2009-06-11, 05:19 PM
So you want to fit the cleric class into this gods people without calling them clerics?

Or just need worshipers?

:smallconfused:

Not every god needs a standing temple of vestal virgins and priests worshiping them.

If they are a war god, then fighting and doing it in the name of the god should be good enough to give the god worshiper power.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-11, 05:20 PM
Not every god needs a standing temple of vestal virgins and priests worshiping them.

They wouldn't be virgins for long...

Choco
2009-06-11, 05:37 PM
So you want to fit the cleric class into this gods people without calling them clerics?

Or just need worshipers?

:smallconfused:

Not every god needs a standing temple of vestal virgins and priests worshiping them.

If they are a war god, then fighting and doing it in the name of the god should be good enough to give the god worshiper power.

What you say is exactly how I am doing it. The problem is not including clerics, but somehow balancing this god's followers against those who DO use clerics. I was thinking of replacing clerics with a homebrewed class that is basically a fighter/barbarian type with anti-magic and anti-ranged abilities. This sounds like one of the better options, because normally gods only grant their powers to their clerics/paladins, not every single one of their followers, so I can't be having this guy granting his anti-ranged/magic protection to every single worshiper he has... Unless of course I have the other gods do something similar, I haven't gotten too far into this setting that I cant make that change now.. Perhaps every follower of a god would get benefits similar to Cleric domains?

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-11, 05:38 PM
Replace Clerics with Cloistered Clerics and have Divine Power and Rightous Might only available as domain spells.

Should balance out the melee part of clerics.

As for the spells...

I'll think on that.


I can't be having this guy granting his anti-ranged/magic protection to every single worshiper he has... Unless of course I have the other gods do something similar,
Barbarians dip Warlock for Entropic Warding. Done.

Hat-Trick
2009-06-11, 05:43 PM
A warlock dip wouldn't work, I'd think. It's main ability is ranged. Not to mention it takes a hit on their manliness, losing a BAB.

Tiki Snakes
2009-06-11, 07:14 PM
Personally, I would think shear numbers would do it.

Cleric Religion X relies largely on it's clerics, who follow your standard numerical level balance thing. Their powerful warriors corraspond to this, but the vast majority of any simple force is made up of warriors, adepts, maybe even just commoners.

The 'Self Reliance and Might is Best' guys, with their Crom type God, because of the fact that they frankly see more conflict and tend more readily towards the 'Adventurer' lifestyle are simply tougher *as a community*. They have more high level guys leading their society, their powerfull forces are all drawn from the TOB and most normal people have REAL class levels.

If this doesn't swing you, bare in mind that Nature Spirits are not Gods, so Druids are both likely and usefull in a divine magic void. :)

Hat-Trick
2009-06-11, 07:27 PM
Now, what would be cool is a few wizard or sorcerers who decide to fight on the side of the Self-Reliance people. They weren't blessed with the strength and agility needed to properly worship, but fight on the side of the Self-Reliance anyway using Tenser's Transformation and the like.

shadzar
2009-06-11, 08:11 PM
What you say is exactly how I am doing it. The problem is not including clerics, but somehow balancing this god's followers against those who DO use clerics. I was thinking of replacing clerics with a homebrewed class that is basically a fighter/barbarian type with anti-magic and anti-ranged abilities. This sounds like one of the better options, because normally gods only grant their powers to their clerics/paladins, not every single one of their followers, so I can't be having this guy granting his anti-ranged/magic protection to every single worshiper he has... Unless of course I have the other gods do something similar, I haven't gotten too far into this setting that I cant make that change now.. Perhaps every follower of a god would get benefits similar to Cleric domains?

That is easy. You have adventuring clerics, and then you have other worshipers. The thing is that those other gods probably have a large number of people that worship them that are not classed. Likewise this war-god has many people that worship them.

If you look at it that way, then having clerics is a moot point as to spreading the gods name around, as that is done through the battles.

Granted this could cost worshipers as they die, but any slaves brought back to this society will be taught in the way of this god and their children will br brought up under it and learning about it whether they choose it or not, and the belief in the god is what gives him power. So he needn't have worshipers as much as belief in him that grants him power to exist as a god.

To add the class, I think you are on the right track, or just give some healing abilities to the classes of fighting men that they can use in order to be of the faith and continue, if the god deems it so, or more attacking powers.

A society around a god of war is often stronger in battle than others thanks to the aid of the gods influence to inspire them to continue on and give them strength to vanquish their foes.

Well I hope these ramblings can do something to help... :smallconfused:

Flickerdart
2009-06-11, 08:20 PM
Now, what would be cool is a few wizard or sorcerers who decide to fight on the side of the Self-Reliance people. They weren't blessed with the strength and agility needed to properly worship, but fight on the side of the Self-Reliance anyway using Tenser's Transformation and the like.
There's a PrC in, I believe, Manual of the Planes, that lets a spellcaster give up their casting for some mediocre bonuses. You could handle it that way if you really wanted to.

Fuzzy_Juan
2009-06-11, 08:25 PM
Oh...I got it...only the strongest fighters are clerics...make a prestige class with full BaB progression, mettle, and ur priest casting that you need BaB of like 8-10 to get into. Restrict the allowed spells to a small number of battle (non magey stuff) spells...buffs of strength, blessings, some healings...Remember...'Crom' is watching, if you dare res someone who died like a wimp, he'll kick your ass...'Greater Str' domain, full HD to bonus for a number of turns equal to your levels in 'Battle Priest of Crom'

Mybe that will work?

Choco
2009-06-11, 10:32 PM
Oh...I got it...only the strongest fighters are clerics...make a prestige class with full BaB progression, mettle, and ur priest casting that you need BaB of like 8-10 to get into. Restrict the allowed spells to a small number of battle (non magey stuff) spells...buffs of strength, blessings, some healings...Remember...'Crom' is watching, if you dare res someone who died like a wimp, he'll kick your ass...'Greater Str' domain, full HD to bonus for a number of turns equal to your levels in 'Battle Priest of Crom'

Mybe that will work?

That might work, plus add some anti-magic Arcane spells into the mix, like AMF and disjunction...

Having some "independent" druids in the mix might work out as well, I can see the 2 groups cooperating against common enemies.

Gaiyamato
2009-06-11, 11:46 PM
I was thinking of ideas to include in a homebrew setting I have been working on, and was wondering how to make this work:

I want to make one of the gods basically be the god of fighting/combat. He would probably be worshiped mostly by barbarians, and believes in using your own strength to overcome any challenges. However, due to this mindset, it would not make much sense for him to have any clerics, as he does not actively aid any of his followers (in combat anyway), and in general views ranged weapons and magic as the tactics of wimps.

So yeah, any ideas how I could make this work? Maybe instead of clerics, his "clerics" would be modified fighters/barbarians that get spell resistance and some kind of protection from arrows?

Myself and a player worked on this is my campaign recently.
We came up with using Truenamers as a seudo cleric class. lol.
We added some things to them such allowing trunamers to counter arcane and divine spells with a truename check and a bunch of other stuff (bonuses to saves against arcane spells and divine spells, made some new utterances that function against undead and summoned creatures).
This was a LG god of anti-magic though, so not quite the same.

I do like the Conan reference. I think that would work well in your case. :)

Another alternative is to use Deathdelvers from Heroes of Horror. To enter it they are required to have almost died at some point in time. They can rebuke undead and cast a small selection of death related divine spells. But they can be any alignment.
Up the BAB requirement and add some elemental type spells to the list and dispel magic and you have a good "cleric" class.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-12, 12:14 AM
You could also have Favored Souls. They don't worship the god, but he will grant his followers the ability to defend themselves...on occasion. Also, 9th level Arcane are the only insurmountable obstacles, though high-level arcane and 9th level Divine are rough. ToB, Psions, and other tier-2 are just as powerful as the tier 1 casters, just less adaptable. Use them.

Hat-Trick
2009-06-12, 07:33 AM
Favored souls are a good thought, but they have the same weakness as clerics. They get spells from their god, which doesn't work with this one

Tiki Snakes
2009-06-12, 08:31 AM
Actually, thinking about it, a Sorcerers 'Power From Within' chimes quite nicely with the Crom mantra of 'I already gave you all the help your getting, bisnatches!'

So, high level sorcerers and (battle sorcerers?) instead of Clerics. Bingo.

DeathQuaker
2009-06-12, 08:46 AM
What you say is exactly how I am doing it. The problem is not including clerics, but somehow balancing this god's followers against those who DO use clerics. I was thinking of replacing clerics with a homebrewed class that is basically a fighter/barbarian type with anti-magic and anti-ranged abilities.

I'm not sure why you NEED a new class, per se. Barbarians and Fighters are tough in their own right, and if magic versus non-magic is an issue, it could be that the follower of your War God has Strength in Numbers versus their divinely-empowered rivals (frex, they have only 1 18th level priest... if he's charged by 40 10th level Barbarians, he's screwed). I imagine they'd also just be built/optimized in a way that makes them resilient towards fighting divine casters if that is an issue.

Actually, if I wanted an inspiring priest and NOT use a divine spellcaster, I'd base them off a Bard or Beguiler (3.5 PHBII). The person is a charismatic person who can whip the warriors around him into a fighting frenzy, NOT with the power of the Gods, but with his own self-generated ability to inspire those around him with his war-chants and war-drumming. A multiclass Bard-Barbarian (the infamous "Bard-Barian") might make an excellent "priest."

That being said, one of the things you really have to worry about is if there are no magical healers in this society where other societies DO have magical healers (if there's no magical healing whatsoever, it's less of a problem). The Bard could still help in that case, but if you want to keep your Bard in the concept of "inspiring in word and voice" you might want to avoid those more "magical" spells. In that case, I might swap out a Barbarian's Trap Sense for some kind of Fast Healing or "Healing Surge" like ability.

For the record, in my campaign world, my gods have "Chosen" representatives (e.g., divine spellcasters), but not all "Clerics/Chosen" are clergy (they have specific duties separate from participating in the church's hierarchy), and not all clergy are Chosen. There are plenty of people who minister to the sick or preach to the masses who have no or only minimal magical abilities--they are just loyal to their god and try to propel their god's agenda. You don't have to have divine power to say you're a follower or representative of a god. You just have to be good at whatever it is you do.

Good lord, I hope some of that babble made sense.

bosssmiley
2009-06-12, 09:17 AM
So yeah, any ideas how I could make this work? Maybe instead of clerics, his "clerics" would be modified fighters/barbarians that get spell resistance and some kind of protection from arrows?

What's your parish priest's CL? Just have the priests of the war god be warrior cultists. It's the Khornate way. :smallwink:


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