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Jeivar
2009-06-11, 01:15 PM
I like my PC's to be . . . well, memorable, so the idea struck to create one that's a stereotypical Goth, complete with black, frizzy hair, black, lacy clothing, black eyeshadow, tall, black boots, and a sullen attitude; The traditional marks of deep grieving in her culture (or some such :smalltongue: ).

We're starting low-level, and I think I'll probably go with an elf Rogue for all that delicious backstabbiness (possibly a rogue/barb, or a rog/sorc), but I was wondering if someone had suggestions for weapons, items, feats, armor, or class combinations that would fit with the Goth-motif?

(. . . the more I think about it, the more I'm gravitating towards my Rogue/Barbarian idea, if only to have a frenzied barbarian jump out the shadows shouting "Life! Is! Pain!" and start furiously hacking backs :smallbiggrin: )

Nerd-o-rama
2009-06-11, 01:19 PM
Well, rogue and/or barbarian would actually model the stereotypical image of an actual Goth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goth) quite well, as would a preference for axes and mobile, fluid combat tactics.

hamishspence
2009-06-11, 01:26 PM
Fiend Folio Shadar-kai, possibly. Not that different from the 4th ed version, aside from being fey rather than humanoid.

wormwood
2009-06-11, 01:26 PM
I say go with a Bard. Put tons of skill points into Perform (Robert Smith Impersonation) and you're good to go.

Kris Strife
2009-06-11, 01:28 PM
I say go with a Bard. Put tons of skill points into Perform (Robert Smith Impersonation) and you're good to go.

Dirgesinger?

And before anyone else says it: Play Vampire.

Riffington
2009-06-11, 01:30 PM
Dirgesinger?

And before anyone else says it: Play Vampire.

He said he wanted a goth character to be memorable.

kamikasei
2009-06-11, 01:35 PM
At the risk of being extremely obvious, nothing about Goth culture would require a particular build to represent.

If you're just after a look, anyone can dress appropriately. If you're after a personality, well, it's not like there's just one prescribed way to be a Goth. Come up with a character and then build to your concept.

xPANCAKEx
2009-06-11, 01:39 PM
make sure you wield a flaming sword with the word "TOPIC" etched on the blade

Jeivar
2009-06-11, 01:41 PM
And before anyone else says it: Play Vampire.

*cough*leveladjustment+8*cough*

Plus, I'm planning to be good-ish.

SSGoW
2009-06-11, 01:43 PM
Go for Blood Magus those are.... creepy (and FUN :D)

OverdrivePrime
2009-06-11, 01:44 PM
Instead of wearing magic rings on her fingers, give her magical piercings. I'll leave it up to you decide where those piercings go, but her earlobes would be way too pedestrian. :smallamused:

Charms of Protection from Law, or Magic Circle Against Law (in the form of pentagram brooches or necklaces) seem appropriate, as does any item or effect that draws on negative energy or necromancy. A Death Ward magic item in the form of an Ankh sounds like it would be in character as well.

A rogue/barbarian seems pretty funny, but that's more for the "high KISS-boots and spiked jackets" goths than the more standard issue "lame death poetry and black lace" goths. For that, I'd got with a Rogue/Wizard or Rogue/Sorcerer, maybe a Beguiler. Take high ranks in "Craft: Sorrowful Sketches" and make liberal use of Marvelous Pigments (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/WondrousItems.htm).

Riffington
2009-06-11, 01:47 PM
*cough*leveladjustment+8*cough*



Dude, really?

Kris Strife
2009-06-11, 01:49 PM
*cough*leveladjustment+8*cough*

Plus, I'm planning to be good-ish.

Wow... Apparently your sense of humor has a huge BAB penalty, cause you sure missed that one.

Coidzor
2009-06-11, 01:51 PM
Dread Necromancer or cracking open Libris Mortis/Champions of Ruin might give you some ideas. With Dread Necromancer you have a dark character who with one feat can heal herself at will.

Also, Ravenloft.

The "Play Vampire" comment actually was referring you to the game "Vampire: The Masquerade" by... White Wolf(?)

BRC
2009-06-11, 01:53 PM
Well, rogue and/or barbarian would actually model the stereotypical image of an actual Goth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goth) quite well, as would a preference for axes and mobile, fluid combat tactics.
Beat me to it.

Heh, random thing, next year for halloween, two of my friends are going as "Goths", one of each type.

Hat-Trick
2009-06-11, 01:53 PM
I support bard. Perform (oratory) includes poetry and there is a variant that debuffs enemies, so you're ability to have a depressing song for any situation ruins your enemy's attacks.

Dixieboy
2009-06-11, 01:53 PM
Dirgesinger?

And before anyone else says it: Play Vampire.The Camarilla frowns upon you...

ohhhhh

3.5 vampire?

Yea.

Sir Homeslice
2009-06-11, 01:53 PM
Fiend Folio Shadar-kai, possibly. Not that different from the 4th ed version, aside from being fey rather than humanoid.

IIRC 4e Shadar-Kai are vastly different than Fiend Folio Shadar-Kai in the sense that 4e Shadar-Kai are hedonistic thrill seekers with a meritocratic society while FF Shadar-Kai...weren't.

mistformsquirrl
2009-06-11, 01:55 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/mistharm/emogothrome.jpg


... Sorry >< had to!


Hrmm...

Well: Black is the obvious color choice. Weapon-wise... daggers and short swords, whips, spiked chains (... not like that!), though I could also see a hand crossbow fitting the image as well.

Armor spikes might work too. Leather is probably better than chain; but that depends a bit.

I think honestly what'll matter more is your attitude and presentation. Well and maybe if you can find a particularly good picture on the web that covers what you want <. .>m

Btw, have you considered Warlock or Sorcerer (with lots of dark or necromancy type spells)? Just as an alternate possibility they might fit. You could even get a raven familiar <,<

*edit*

Oooh... someone mentioned Blood Magus - I'd forgotten about that, but that's a good one too!

Jeivar
2009-06-11, 01:55 PM
make sure you wield a flaming sword with the word "TOPIC" etched on the blade

. . .

Er, I don't get it . . . :smallredface:

Kris Strife
2009-06-11, 01:55 PM
The Camarilla frowns upon you...

ohhhhh

3.5 vampire?

Yea.

*sighs* No... You had it right the first time. It was a WoD joke...

Dixieboy
2009-06-11, 01:56 PM
Oh oh oh

Armor = Studded leather with armor spikes :smallbiggrin:


*sighs* No... You had it right the first time. It was a WoD joke...
Calling Vampire: The Masquerade/Requiem gothic shows a distinct lack of "Having actually played it"

Goths flirting with vampirism are used as portable breakfast, maybe ghouled and kept around to do stuff you don't want to. :smallbiggrin:

Kris Strife
2009-06-11, 01:56 PM
. . .

Er, I don't get it . . . :smallredface:

Hot Topic? As in the store?

Coidzor
2009-06-11, 01:56 PM
IIRC 4e Shadar-Kai are vastly different than Fiend Folio Shadar-Kai in the sense that 4e Shadar-Kai are hedonistic thrill seekers with a meritocratic society while FF Shadar-Kai...weren't.

Doesn't really matter mechanically, but it is an interesting tidbit of a change.... Since this is 3.5 we're talking.

Beat me to it.

Heh, random thing, next year for halloween, two of my friends are going as "Goths", one of each type.

As a duo/couple/Together?

Worira
2009-06-11, 01:56 PM
Wow... Apparently your sense of humor has a huge BAB penalty, cause you sure missed that one.

What's a bonus penalty?

Tengu_temp
2009-06-11, 01:58 PM
IIRC 4e Shadar-Kai are vastly different than Fiend Folio Shadar-Kai in the sense that 4e Shadar-Kai are hedonistic thrill seekers with a meritocratic society while FF Shadar-Kai...weren't.

I don't know what they wrote about them in Dragon, but Shadar-Kai from the MM are the gothiest and most emo race you can currently choose in 4e - and remember, this game already has Tieflings and Drow.

Kris Strife
2009-06-11, 01:59 PM
What's a bonus penalty?

What a first level wizard with a 3 for strength has for his attack bonus and grapple modifier.

Iku Rex
2009-06-11, 01:59 PM
Go for mystic theurge. And focus on necromancy. Proper goths love (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0446.html) the undead...

Fastmover
2009-06-11, 02:06 PM
I like my PC's to be . . . well, memorable, so the idea struck to create one that's a stereotypical Goth, complete with black, frizzy hair, black, lacy clothing, black eyeshadow, tall, black boots, and a sullen attitude; The traditional marks of deep grieving in her culture (or some such :smalltongue: ).

We're starting low-level, and I think I'll probably go with an elf Rogue for all that delicious backstabbiness (possibly a rogue/barb, or a rog/sorc), but I was wondering if someone had suggestions for weapons, items, feats, armor, or class combinations that would fit with the Goth-motif?

(. . . the more I think about it, the more I'm gravitating towards my Rogue/Barbarian idea, if only to have a frenzied barbarian jump out the shadows shouting "Life! Is! Pain!" and start furiously hacking backs :smallbiggrin: )


Actually that isn't really goth like. You are thinking more so of a Emo. Most of us Goth are very intellectual, sarcastic and artistic. We simply veiw the darker side of life in a more beautiful way than others. At least that is my take on it. So I think with your char you should go make her a Drow/Vampire/Warlock-Sorc-Cleric. At least that is what my girl would love (The combination I mean). The whole Female Dom is so what she is. Sexy, authoritative and willing to make human sacrifices for me. (sigh) She is so great.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0349.html

The Dark Fiddler
2009-06-11, 02:06 PM
If you wanted to be really memorable, you should go the Neo Vampire Twilight quote "emo" unquote.

Homebrew vampire that sparkles in the sun and has cold skin hard as rock yet somehow still runs fluidly.

Worira
2009-06-11, 02:10 PM
Bonus points if you soliloquize at length about how great a curse your sparkliness is.

And Kris, that's an attack or grapple penalty, not a BAB penalty. There's no such thing as a BAB penalty.

Jeivar
2009-06-11, 02:15 PM
Actually that isn't really goth like. You are thinking more so of a Emo. Most of us Goth are very intellectual, sarcastic and artistic. We simply veiw the darker side of life in a more beautiful way than others. At least that is my take on it. So I think with your char you should go make her a Drow/Vampire/Warlock-Sorc-Cleric. At least that is what my girl would love (The combination I mean). The whole Female Dom is so what she is. Sexy, authoritative and willing to make human sacrifices for me. (sigh) She is so great.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0349.html

Well, I said STEREOTYPICAL Goth. Y'know, for laughs. :smallsmile:

Kris Strife
2009-06-11, 02:28 PM
And Kris, that's an attack or grapple penalty, not a BAB penalty. There's no such thing as a BAB penalty.

The character sheets call your BAB and Relevant stat mods combined your 'Attack Bonus'. The point remains that he badly missed the joke.

Dixieboy
2009-06-11, 02:42 PM
The character sheets call your BAB and Relevant stat mods combined your 'Attack Bonus'. The point remains that he badly missed the joke.

The AC on that joke was a wee bit high for the CR though.

Kris Strife
2009-06-11, 02:49 PM
The AC on that joke was a wee bit high for the CR though.

Really? Him saying he wanted to play a Goth character and me suggesting WoD Vampire was a hard to understand joke?

deuxhero
2009-06-11, 02:58 PM
Personally I thought it was suggesting being a spawn (IIRC they have lower LA) as some take that at goths. WoD has no reason to come to mind.

Faleldir
2009-06-11, 03:45 PM
Take a level of Warlock to **** bats.

Dixieboy
2009-06-11, 03:45 PM
Really? Him saying he wanted to play a Goth character and me suggesting WoD Vampire was a hard to understand joke?

Yes; considering it's a 3.5 thread, WoD isn't Gothic and their Vampires even less so, I'd say that it is.

Devils_Advocate
2009-06-11, 04:27 PM
I'd say drow, tiefling, or human Warlock, Dread Necromancer, Rogue, or Bard, probably.

If you're playing in the Forgotten Realms, your character could worship Ilmater. "I shall know no joy in this world. I can but hope to suffer in a way that spares others." Although I suppose that the stereotypical goth is an amoral nihilist.

Riffington
2009-06-11, 04:34 PM
Yes; considering it's a 3.5 thread, WoD isn't Gothic and their Vampires even less so, I'd say that it is.

I'm sorry your Vampire group sucked. Accept that some people actually did it well (prior to the emergence of splatbooks for everything)

Dixieboy
2009-06-11, 04:38 PM
I'm sorry your Vampire group sucked. Accept that some people actually did it well (prior to the emergence of splatbooks for everything)lolwut? :smallconfused:

Jeivar
2009-06-11, 04:40 PM
Really? Him saying he wanted to play a Goth character and me suggesting WoD Vampire was a hard to understand joke?

Geez, get over it.

Jeivar
2009-06-11, 05:27 PM
As for posting pictures of what I had in mind, I took a browse through deviantart and found some cool pics:

http://fygomatic.deviantart.com/art/dark-warrior-82343153

http://leevitron.deviantart.com/art/Warrior-16-81345157

http://leevitron.deviantart.com/art/Dark-Countess-77554427

http://kaleya.deviantart.com/art/Faith-47710709

http://rammkitty-stock.deviantart.com/art/Chaos-100575823

http://senderosolvidados.deviantart.com/art/Dark-warrior-100707174

mistformsquirrl
2009-06-11, 05:32 PM
3, 5 and 6 are all pretty neat costumes imo <@[email protected]> The latter two are a little odd due to being real people in the pictures (*sigh* no real person can ever quite look as cool as art <T_T> oh well!) but the concept behind them is very solid.

5 and 6 look like Fighter or Hexblade. 5 might also be able to work for a Barbarian or Rogue.

3 - Rogue or a caster of some kind. Or perhaps a Swashbuckler.

<. .>

AslanCross
2009-06-11, 06:16 PM
. . .

Er, I don't get it . . . :smallredface:

Goths in the US stereotypically buy most of their wardrobe and accessories from a store called Hot Topic.

Anyway, piercings and studs. You might even want to wear some of your magical accessories as piercings instead of rings or amulets (of course, they still take up the space they're supposed to take up).

There was one Eberron adventure in Dungeon Magazine that had a failed hobgoblin monk who was covered in piercings and had a circlet of blasting embedded in his head. Hilariously enough, he was weak against heat metal.

bosssmiley
2009-06-12, 10:19 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/mistharm/emogothrome.jpg

... Sorry >< had to!

Don't be; it's a cool t-shirt. :smallamused:

Goth is a late 20th century pop culture grab-bag remix of 19th century Romantic aesthetics. How on earth does such a thing even fit into a quasi-medieval society, given that youth culture style tribes are pretty much a Victorian invention?

Also, PC dresses like a goth in a society where colour-coded for your convenience (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ColourCodedForYourConvenience) applies? Oh dear... :smallsigh:

Jeivar
2009-06-12, 12:00 PM
Goth is a late 20th century pop culture grab-bag remix of 19th century Romantic aesthetics. How on earth does such a thing even fit into a quasi-medieval society, given that youth culture style tribes are pretty much a Victorian invention?

Well, like I said: It's for laughs. :smallsmile:

Ganurath
2009-06-12, 12:05 PM
If it's for laughs, you won't mind the feat requirements for the Blood Magus PrC. Cutting yourself to empower your spellcasting isn't that bad when your necromancy spells drain the vitality of those around you.

JeenLeen
2009-06-12, 12:31 PM
PHBII or DMGII gives a list of possible personality types for most base classes. Sorcerer's is rather traditional goth. It's a rather funny read. One line is something about liking undead, but not understanding why they dislike you.

Zim
2009-06-12, 12:31 PM
He said he wanted a goth character to be memorable.

Then make him cheerful and well-adjusted, with a positive outlook on life.

VirOath
2009-06-12, 12:39 PM
Well, it's not ideal or optimized...

Thin Black Armor (Leather, Gnomish Twist Cloth, etc.), weapon of choice should be a Dagger Whip (Like a whip, but actually able to deal damage: CW). For Irony sake there is a bunch of caster feats in BoED that turn spells into positive energy. Or toss in cleric.

Blood Magus would be a cool thing for flavor PrC (Come on, dark, brooding, masters of the life blood, and they can even cut themselves to use their own blood for +1 CL on casting.)

If you are going the casters angle and have a feat to spare, there is a feat in FR that allows a spell to appear along a theme, giving you much more expected looks for Gothic Spells.

And Rogue/Barb/Frenzy Berserker (Aka, the Angry Rogue) would be cool for a melee fighter.

But everything you are looking for is fluff and can be applied to almost any build to start with. Just... don't go getting Goth and Emo confused with each other...

ChaosDefender24
2009-06-12, 12:47 PM
Dread Necromancer 1/Cleric 2/Master of Shrouds

you will be loved

Yora
2009-06-12, 01:17 PM
Goth is a late 20th century pop culture grab-bag remix of 19th century Romantic aesthetics. How on earth does such a thing even fit into a quasi-medieval society, given that youth culture style tribes are pretty much a Victorian invention?
Well, there's kiddy-goth and grown up goth. The stereotypical ones are almost always of the kiddy-type, which are mostly tolerated because they soon grow up and take off the black costumes, or run after the next fad that crosses their way. :smallamused:

Most goths over the age of 20 are completely sane and reasonable people, with a great number actually being very nice and kind guys, who are simply open to other forms of esthetics and different social values. But they don't wear the costumes every day, so you don't see to much of them.

paddyfool
2009-06-12, 01:26 PM
Necropolitan might be another decent race to consider. Although, if you're playing it for laughs... how about a goth pixie? Or halfling, wood elf, etc? No need to limit yourself by people's expectations - Goth is a life choice, not genetics (probably).

OverdrivePrime
2009-06-12, 01:49 PM
Most goths over the age of 20 are completely sane and reasonable people, with a great number actually being very nice and kind guys, who are simply open to other forms of esthetics and different social values. But they don't wear the costumes every day, so you don't see to much of them.
Good call. My only problem with grown up goths is that the dudes frequently insist on wearing horrifyingly tight pants. Hint: if casual observation from 30 feet away yields the answer to "How's it hangin'?", you're either having too much fun for a public event, or your frickin' pants are too tight! :smallmad:

Kris Strife
2009-06-12, 01:58 PM
how about a goth pixie?

http://www.rhjunior.com/GH/00055.html

Man, I love this comic. DGR rule, Alignment explination...

Jeivar
2009-06-12, 02:06 PM
But everything you are looking for is fluff and can be applied to almost any build to start with. Just... don't go getting Goth and Emo confused with each other...

Well, which group would be insulted by the confusion? :smallbiggrin:

Kris Strife
2009-06-12, 02:09 PM
Well, which group would be insulted by the confusion? :smallbiggrin:

Both, but the emo's wouldn't actually deserve to feel insulted.

Jeivar
2009-06-12, 03:16 PM
Both, but the emo's wouldn't actually deserve to feel insulted.

Hah. :smallsmile:

Duff
2009-06-12, 05:59 PM
Then make him cheerful and well-adjusted, with a positive outlook on life.

Ohh, a Perky-Goth

Duff
2009-06-12, 06:16 PM
High goth? Wizard, sorcerer or cleric. dress how vampires should dress. Pretend you know you are better than everyone else, for best effect, be good enough that some people belive you
Grunge goth? - black leather with rips. rogue, bard, beguiler
metal goth - spikes and studs and ranks in wilder or barb to go with a career rogue
perkygoth - hangs around with goths socially and knows she looks great in black - bard

Note that things goth know about themselves don't hav eto be true (same as for all people)

Coidzor
2009-06-12, 07:21 PM
mmm, have you checked TVtropes for ideas?

Xuincherguixe
2009-06-12, 07:59 PM
Naturally, you'll want to really play up the stereotypes. Whine about how no one understands you and all. And when you kill monsters scream things like, "Now you feel my pain!"

The hard part will be in finding a way to not be too annoying.

Also, better hope that either there aren't any goths in your group or they have a sense of humor.

... Nah even if they have a sense of humor probably a pretty uncool thing to do.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-12, 11:16 PM
Naturally, you'll want to really play up the stereotypes. Whine about how no one understands you and all. And when you kill monsters scream things like, "Now you feel my pain!"

The hard part will be in finding a way to not be too annoying.Once more, for emphasis: GOTH/=EMO!

Origomar
2009-06-13, 12:44 AM
You have to be rich to, to afford the choir that sings Faux latin in the background whenever you do anything actiony.

Also steer away from knives, trust me.


PS.

People can't say you look like a girl if they are in two peices(Well unless your char is going to be a girl then i guess its ok)

PSS. ???

PSSS. All chain mail worn must be blackened. Always.

PSSSS. profit.

Xuincherguixe
2009-06-13, 01:48 AM
Once more, for emphasis: GOTH/=EMO!

He's being a stereotype. Of course it's wrong.

Ziren
2009-06-13, 03:11 AM
Once more, for emphasis: GOTH/=EMO!

For serious now: Those stereotypes where applied to the goth scene before I've ever heard of the term "emo". Also, I'm amazed how so many goths (and goth-friendly people) just believe all the crap that is now associated with emos while they are themselves so often the targets of unjust judgement.
While I don't like emo culture in general (can't stand the music or the clothes), one of my best friends is a member of the scene and only few of the stereotypes apply to him (he likes to write poetry, but then again so do I).

Anyway, on topic:
I can't say much about game mechanics, as I'm not playing D&D, but attitude-wise you might want to make a snarky character. A bit introverted perhaps, very defensive and quite a bit vain. Though that might go to far away from "comic relief" type of character.

Leon
2009-06-13, 03:14 AM
Visi or Ostro?

Yora
2009-06-13, 05:42 AM
For serious now: Those stereotypes where applied to the goth scene before I've ever heard of the term "emo".
As someone with lose goth-connections, I have to say I don't see any real difference betwen emos and fashion-goths.

Fhaolan
2009-06-13, 10:23 AM
Goth Paladin

No, I'm serious. I did this once for an NPC. In the campaign the God of Healing was also the God of Suffering (the idea being that to heal others you have to take the pain yourself). All the gods go by titles instead of names, so this one is the Crying God.

I had this odd idea that I wanted an NPC to be a follower of the Crying God, but I wanted to shake up the idea that they were all cloistered cleric-type monks tending leper colonies and the like. So I tried to figure out what a Paladin of the Crying God would be like. For story purposes it had to be female, human with some very diluted elvish blood, and be bizarrely outgoing and enthusiastic about suffering while still being Good.

And then I had this mental flash of a heavily made up Perky Goth chick in black leather and gunmetal partial plate riding a giant bat, and I just had to do it.

Here are some inspiring links:
Take the girl out of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFzQX2i6mwo&feature=related at about 2:42 is where the stuff starts that I'm thinking on.
Take the bat out of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bat_out_of_Hell.jpg
And put them together like this:
http://www.fotos.org/galeria/data/576/Movie-Poster-Heavy-Metal.jpg okay, in the picture the girl's glam rather than goth, and the creature isn't technically a bat, but work with me here.