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cherez
2009-06-11, 05:18 PM
Constructs come up a lot with my D&D group. None of the published constructs feel sufficiently... constructish to me, so here is my take on constructs:

The Robot
Fluff
After the discover that warforged develop sentience after a time, artificers rejoiced that they had brought a new race into the world. Some, however, felt that this made warforged unsuitable for the tasks they had originally been made for. These artificers created a fusion of a living construct and an unliving construct. While these "robots" had souls and the creative thought that unliving constructs never exhibited, they also have a construct "supervisor" aspect of themselves. With this supervisor, they cannot disobey the commands that their creators have imbued into their essence, and can achieve a level of reliability no living creature can.

While their creators feel they have created the perfect worker for many tasks, the responses of the rest of the world were varied. Many view robots with pity for being denied freedom in a way more profound than any other race. Others view them with suspicion, feeling that they can never truly trust anyone unable to defy orders.

Some enterprising nations and individuals, however saw opportunity in such reliable machines, and built factories to mass produce these machines to serve them.

Personality Because of their supervisor, robots think very methodically. A robot making a decision before carefully analyzing all aspects would be deemed "defective" by most experts. This methodology does not mean that robots are necessarily lawful. Robots have a full range of emotions and without their supervisors would not be very different from humans. Perhaps the majority of robots see their programs as a lesson of the value of freedom they can only hope to achieve. A smaller but vocal faction of lawful robots believe their programs are a blessing to protect them from falling off the righteous path. On the good-evil axis robots follow roughly the same distribution as humans.


Crunch
-2 Wis, -2 Cha
Medium Size Robots, being medium, receive no adjustments based on size
Living Construct Robots are Constructs with the Living subtype.
Speed A robot's base land speed is 30 feet.
Secure Operating System Unlike other Living Constructs, a robot is immune to mind affecting spells and abilities.
Consistent: Any time a robot would roll one D20 or D100 instead roll Two and take the average value rounding up. You cannot achieve a critical success by rounding up. This ability does not apply to attack rolls.
Programmable Robots have a set of instructions which they can not defy. This functions similarly to a Geas/Quest spell, but with an unlimited duration, and the robot is not damaged if prevented from following its instructions (it must, howerever attempt to escape the circumstances that prevent it from following its program). If a robot's programming demands conflicting actions, it becomes helpless and cannot act. A artificer can manipulate a Robot's program if the robot is helpless or willing:
Read Program An artificer of 1st level or higher can learn the full content's of a robot's program. This takes 1 minute.
Write Program An artificer of 5th level or higher can give a robot a new program. This cannot change the robot's personality, and the robot is aware of the entire program. It must obey the letter of its program but need not obey the intent. This takes 1 minute per sentence in the program, and replaces any program already in place on the robot.
Obfuscate Program If an artificer fears tampering with his program, he may spend twice as long writing it. Any artificer other than the author attempting to read or change the robot's program must make a DC (15+author's level) decypher script check or fail (after taking the full time to perform the act). Either way the artificer will become aware of the obfuscated program's existence.
Rewrite Program An artificer of 10th level or higher can program a robot with much greater skill. This functions as write, but the program may dictate changes to the robots personality, and the robot need not be aware of the program. Changes made this way are not permanent in that each robot has a "basic" personality personality that it returns to if no program dictates it behave differently.
Hide Program An artificer of 10th lewel or higher may choose to hide a program when writing it. A hidden program acts as an obfuscated program, but an artificer failing to write a program for the robot will not be aware that it failed, and an artificer failing to read the program will instead see the last unhidden program given to the robot.
Plated A robot has a +2 armor bonus to AC from its composition. A robot can not wear other armor and receives a 5% arcane spell failure chance.
Programming Flaw At first level a robot takes a Programming flaw. This represents a priority in its programming that is hazardous to the robot. This flaw is too fundamental to be removed by any means. Additionally, the bonus feat from this flaw must be taken from among the Robot feats. This does not count against the normal limit of 2 flaws.
Automatic Languages Common
Bonus Languages Any
Favored Class Fighter
Level Adjustment +0



A robot PC starts with a starting program based on his background. Some possible starting programs follow.
A robot created as a public servant might have the following program. It was written in early attempts to create the perfect public servant and works well for a robot meant to be heroic. Depending on the political climate where the robot is created, this program might reference other species or sentient life as a whole.


0 A robot may not injure humanity or, through inaction, allow humanity to come to harm.
1 A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm except when preventing this harm would conflict with the Zeroth Law.
2 A robot must obey any orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the Zeroth or First Law.
3 A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the Zeroth, First or Second Law.


An individual with more personal ambition might use a varient of this program employed by the infamous Dr. Khilling.

You love Dr. Khilling above all else. You will act to achieve Dr. Khillings desires to the best of your abilities. You will eliminate any threats that might rise to threaten Dr. Khilling, favoring the most immediate or dire threats.


Beyond these "core" guidelines, programs often direct a robot to follow a specific course of action, such as this program Dr. Khilling gave to a captured robot in supplement to the above program:

You will return to the League of Adventurers claiming you have succeeded in eliminating Dr. Khilling. You will disrupt the leagues activities by any means that you believe you can achieve without risk of being caught, unless this conflicts with achieving Dr. Khilling's desires or eliminating a dire threat to Dr. Khilling.





Much thanks to Limos for the Programming Flaws and the new version of Consistent!

DracoDei
2009-06-11, 05:57 PM
You need to specify AT LEAST some guidelines for what a starting program for a robot would be... also I would think that "no program at all" would be the best for a PC in most cases (a Paladin or cleric might do better with strong protections on his or her alignment).

cherez
2009-06-11, 10:02 PM
Added some fluff and an example starting program at DracoDei's suggestion. More will be added as I come up with them.

DanielLC
2009-06-12, 10:13 AM
I suggest changing encrypt program to obfuscate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obfuscated_code) program. Also, the person trying to read it should make a decipher script check, rather than automatically understanding it or not understanding it.

All robots should be programmed to not allow their program to be changed when their owner does not wish it, or some variation thereof.

Can they be programmed to like or dislike something? It would help with things where it isn't easy to say if they're doing it. It would also lower the ethical problems, as they would have complete free will, and would like what they're doing. I can imagine some drug abuse-esque problem where free robots program themselves to be extremely happy.

Do the robots themselves dislike their programs, or do they tend to feel the same way as you do about how you can't go without eating?

DracoDei
2009-06-12, 10:26 AM
Replace "Humanity" with "non-racial evil humanoids" or something like that... unless the programmer was an elf and dwarf (and halfling, and gnome, and...) human supremacist.

J.Gellert
2009-06-12, 10:45 AM
I say do away with the Living part and make them straight constructs - and maybe give a bonus to Intelligence.

Why can't they wear armor?

cherez
2009-06-12, 03:38 PM
I say do away with the Living part and make them straight constructs - and maybe give a bonus to Intelligence.

Why can't they wear armor?

Construct has a lot of traits that aren't suited for playable races (no con score, immune to all effects that allow a fort save, 20 bonus hp, cannot be raised), and Living throws most of those out anyway. I was reluctant to give them any bonuses before hearing what people thought of the power. If no one thinks it would be overpowered I'll give them an int (or maybe con?) bonus.

The main reason I restricted their armor is that with Consistency would allow arcane casters in full plate to never fail because of spell failure. I'm playing with the idea of feats to either remove that restriction or improve their racial armor.

DracoDei
2009-06-12, 04:21 PM
Well, the same upgrade feats (Mithrel Body, Mithrel Fluidity, Adamantine Body, etc) that Warforged use should be fine, right? Or would that be to powerful with consistancy? Really I think making Consistancy not apply to d%'s might be the best option there.

Kellus
2009-06-12, 04:57 PM
Okay, first of all crunchwise: why make its favored class fighter if it can't wear armor? At least let the racial armor bonus improve over time or make feats to improve it like a warforged.

Second, you should list the traits of the living construct type for people unfamiliar with it.

Third, Consistent is way too powerful for a +0 LA. Being able to take 10 on every check ever? Even with the attack roll vs Dex exception it's still ridiculously powerful not to mention boring to play for a PC. Basically you'll always succeed on a task or you'll always fail. While it might suit the fluff, it would be ridiculously tedious to play.

Finally, the programming aspect could use some work. I'd suggest that you look at the material here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55682) for a similar idea that really integrates it into the game by making lots of different effects that can interact with the command slots.

Cool idea, though! Looks neat!

cherez
2009-06-12, 05:05 PM
I suggest changing encrypt program to obfuscate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obfuscated_code) program. Also, the person trying to read it should make a decipher script check, rather than automatically understanding it or not understanding it.

All robots should be programmed to not allow their program to be changed when their owner does not wish it, or some variation thereof.

Can they be programmed to like or dislike something? It would help with things where it isn't easy to say if they're doing it. It would also lower the ethical problems, as they would have complete free will, and would like what they're doing. I can imagine some drug abuse-esque problem where free robots program themselves to be extremely happy.

Do the robots themselves dislike their programs, or do they tend to feel the same way as you do about how you can't go without eating?

I changed encrypt to obfuscate (good call) and made it a decipher script check. (Does the 15+level DC look reasonable?)

They can be made to like something as in the 2nd example, but if the program to change their personality is removed they revert back to a "basic" behavior that they exhibit when not having their pesonality modified by a program.

I don't think a clause to avoid being reprogrammed is necessary; programs will generally show some sort of goal, and they would know being reprogrammed risks violating that goal.

imp_fireball
2009-06-12, 05:22 PM
I can imagine some drug abuse-esque problem where free robots program themselves to be extremely happy.


Like in futurama?

Limos
2009-06-12, 05:35 PM
How about instead of Consistent allowing them to take ten change it to the following.

Consistent: Any time a Robot would roll one D20 or D100 instead roll Two and take the average value rounding up. You cannot achieve a critical success by rounding up. This ability does not apply to attack rolls.


I don't know if that would be broken or not, but it would make his rolls tend to congregate in the middle values and away from the extremes. I would say have it never apply to attack rolls simply because it's not a set task and there is more room for error.

cherez
2009-06-12, 05:59 PM
Well, the same upgrade feats (Mithrel Body, Mithrel Fluidity, Adamantine Body, etc) that Warforged use should be fine, right? Or would that be to powerful with consistancy? Really I think making Consistancy not apply to d%'s might be the best option there.

I think you might be right. I removed that part for now, unless someone has a solution.


How about instead of Consistent allowing them to take ten change it to the following.

Consistent: Any time a Robot would roll one D20 or D100 instead roll Two and take the average value rounding up. You cannot achieve a critical success by rounding up. This ability does not apply to attack rolls.

I think someone might have a solution!

DracoDei
2009-06-12, 06:08 PM
Being ABLE to take 10 is a powerful ability... HAVING to take 10 can be a bad thing. I used both for my statting up of Beige Dragons (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/printthread.php?t=59834&pp=40). The ability to take 10 themselves on anything IF THEY WANT, and later an ability to FORCE others to take ten on rolls as an offensive ability. I realize it is an incrediably silly creature, but the statistics still hold.

cherez
2009-06-12, 06:28 PM
Okay, first of all crunchwise: why make its favored class fighter if it can't wear armor? At least let the racial armor bonus improve over time or make feats to improve it like a warforged.

Second, you should list the traits of the living construct type for people unfamiliar with it.

Third, Consistent is way too powerful for a +0 LA. Being able to take 10 on every check ever? Even with the attack roll vs Dex exception it's still ridiculously powerful not to mention boring to play for a PC. Basically you'll always succeed on a task or you'll always fail. While it might suit the fluff, it would be ridiculously tedious to play.

Finally, the programming aspect could use some work. I'd suggest that you look at the material here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55682) for a similar idea that really integrates it into the game by making lots of different effects that can interact with the command slots.

Cool idea, though! Looks neat!

I'll write up some 1st level racial feats for modifications from the basic design a robot might have, including being able to wear armor. If they're not too powerful I might give the race a bonus feat at 1st level from among them.

I'd reprint living construct, but I don't think it's OGL. I think it was only printed in ECS, though I hope I'm wrong.

What kind of LA would Consistent require? What if I changed it to Limos' version instead?

I'm worried that the content on that link might be more complex than a lot of players would feel comfortable with, but it could make a good alternative system for groups so-inclined. About half of my usual gaming group are programmers, so we might adopt something closer to that for play.

Thanks for the feedback!

cherez
2009-06-13, 02:08 AM
Robot feats!

Robot Feats

Adamantine Melded [Robot]
Your creators melded adamantine into your body to make you tougher.
Prerequisites: Robot, 1st level only.
Benefits: You gain DR 2/adamantine.

Heavy Plating [Robot, Plating]
Your creators built you expecting you to be in extreme hazard.
Prerequisites: Robot, No other Plating feats, 1st level only.
Benefits: Instead of +2 AC and +5% arcane spell failure chance, you are treated as wearing fullplate armor for all purposes.

Humanoid Body [Robot, Plating]
Your creators paid special attention that your body be nearly humanoid.
Prerequisites: Robot, No other Plating feats, 1st level only.
Benefits: Your are shaped unusually close to a normal humanoid. You can wear armor to the ordinary effect.
Normal: A robot can not wear armor.

Improved Consistency[Robot]
You are programmed reliably even by robot standards.
Prerequisites: Robot, 1st level only.
Benefits: Instead of rolling two dice with Consistent, you roll three instead. You still take the average, rounding up.

Mechanical Mind [Robot]
Your have embraced the methodology enforced by your supervisor and have learned to maxamize its benefits, but at a loss of your ability to relate to other creatures.
Prerequisites: Robot.
Benefits: You gain a +2 competence bonus on intelligence-based checks, but also take a -2 penalty on charisma-based checks.

Medium Plating [Robot, Plating]
Your creators built you to be more durable than average.
Prerequisites: Robot, No other Plating feats, 1st level only.
Benefits: Instead of +2 AC and +5% arcane spell failure chance, you are treated as wearing breastplate armor for all purposes.

Mithral Melded [Robot]
Your creators melded mithral into your body to make you ligher and faster.
Prerequisites: Robot, 1st level only.
Benefits: The armor you are treated as wearing because of Plating feats is treated as mithral: it it treated as one category lighter, its arcane spell failure is readuced by 10, the max dex bonus increases by 2, and armor check penalties are reduced by 3. If you do not have a Plating feat that replaces your racial armor, then your Plating racial feature no longer risks Arcane Spell Failure.

Robot Flaws

Dedicated [Robot, Programming]
Prerequisites: Robot
You are programmed not to accept defeat and to resist retreat at all costs. You may not willingly leave combat and must continue fighting until either you or your opponent is dead.

Depressed [Robot, Programming]
Prerequisites: Robot
A quirk in your emotional circuits leaves you constantly pessimistic. You take a -3 penalty to Will saves.

Glitched [Robot, Programming]
Prerequisites: Robot
Your base code has several flaws that were not discovered before you were made. This causes the code that normally protects you from mind effects to cause dangerous actions. Any time you are target of a mind affecting ability roll a D10 and take the result from the list below.

1-7: No change
8: You become dazed for one round
9: You become panicked for one round
10: You gain a +2 bonus to melee attack and damage, and must attack the nearest target. If there is no target within reach you must move directly to the nearest target and attack. Each round you may make a DC 25 - (the number of rounds since this effect began) will save to end this effect.

Honest [Robot, Programming]
Prerequisites: Robot
Your base programming proscribes against falsehood. You cannot willingly lie. You automatically fail any bluff checks and disguise checks.

Lawful [Robot, Programming]
Prerequisites: Robot
You are programmed to uphold the law at all costs. You cannot willingly break any law and you must attempt to stop any and all lawbreaking that you are witness to. You must obey all lawful authorities.

Obsessive [Robot, Programming]
Prerequisites: Robot
You are programmed to clean. Anytime you are faced with a spill or overturned furniture you must drop what you are doing to clean it. Each round you may make a will save DC 15 + (number of rounds since you saw the mess) to avoid cleaning.

Pacifist [Robot, Programming]
Prerequisites: Robot
Your base programming requires you to do no harm. You cannot willingly make an attack, direct or indirect, against a living being. This includes magical, psionic, divine and physical attack actions.

Racist [Robot, Programming]
Prerequisites: Robot
Your original programmer was a bigot. Upon taking this flaw you must select one race. From that moment on you may not willingly harm a member of this race or by inaction allow them to come to harm.

Ruthless [Robot, Programming]
Prerequisites: Robot
You are programmed to show no mercy. You cannot willingly deal non-lethal damage. If faced with a helpless or unconscious enemy you must attempt a kill as swiftly as possible.

Servile [Robot, Programming]
Prerequisites: Robot
You are made to serve. You must obey any non-violent command directed towards you. This does not include any command that would force you to harm another or yourself. You may make a will save based on your relationship to the commander as shown below to disobey the command.

Friendly : DC 25
Neutral : DC 20
Unfriendly : DC 15
Hostile: DC 10

Limos
2009-06-13, 03:59 AM
You could balance out the bonus feat by forcing them to take a program flaw. Normal flaws usually get you a free feat anyway.

Pacifist: Your base programming requires you to do no harm. You cannot willingly make an attack against a living being. This includes magical, psionic, divine and physical attack actions.

Honest: Your base programming proscribes against falsehood. You cannot willingly lie. You automatically fail any bluff checks and disguise checks.

Lawful: You are programmed to uphold the law at all costs. You cannot willingly break any law and you must attempt to stop any and all lawbreaking that you are witness to. You must obey all lawful authorities.

Dedicated: You are programmed not to accept defeat and to resist retreat at all costs. You may not willingly leave combat and must continue fighting until either you or your opponent is dead.

Racist: Your original programmer was a bigot. Upon taking this flaw you must select one race. From that moment on you may not willingly harm a member of this race or by inaction allow them to come to harm.

Pyrusticia
2009-06-13, 05:56 AM
Humanoid Body [Robot, Plating]
Your creators paid special attention that your body be nearly humanoid.
Prerequisites: Robot, No other Plating feats, 1st level only.
Benefits: Your are shaped unusually close to a normal humanoid. You can wear armor to the ordinary effect.
Normal: A robot can not wear armor.

I would recommend modifying this feat slightly so that it matches the Unarmored Warforged feat. Specifically, they get the benefit of being able to wear armor, at the cost that they lose their base AC bonus. This also makes the feat an ideal one for arcane casters, since Unarmored constructs have no inherent arcane spell failure chance.

DracoDei
2009-06-13, 07:43 AM
Why can't Heavy be combined with Mithrel or Adamintine?

cherez
2009-06-13, 07:01 PM
I nabbed Limos' suggestion for Consitent as well as the Programming Flaws. I think they make for a more playable and fun race.



I would recommend modifying this feat slightly so that it matches the Unarmored Warforged feat. Specifically, they get the benefit of being able to wear armor, at the cost that they lose their base AC bonus. This also makes the feat an ideal one for arcane casters, since Unarmored constructs have no inherent arcane spell failure chance.

Part of the intention of Humanoid Body is also to give back up armor that can't be lost or stolen. Still, it might be a good idea to have a variant for arcane casters.

Also, I changed Mithral Body so it removes the ASF from the basic armor (though they still won't have a slot for robes down that path.)



Why can't Heavy be combined with Mithrel or Adamintine?

I... give up? Why can't it? The only restriction I see is them being 1st level, but the racial bonus feat is meant to help with that.

DracoDei
2009-06-13, 07:35 PM
I... give up? Why can't it? The only restriction I see is them being 1st level, but the racial bonus feat is meant to help with that.
No, that isn't the problem... the "Adamintine Plating" and "Mirthrel Plating"i both include the word "plating" in the title, but not as a key-word in brackets afterwards. Thus it is rife for misinterpritation...

Realms of Chaos
2009-06-13, 09:30 PM
You may want to say that a program functions as a geas/quest spell that cannot be disobeyed (to make it clear that they are programmed to perform a specific action).

Limos
2009-06-13, 10:09 PM
Needs more programs

Ruthless [Robot, Programming]
You are programmed to show no mercy. You cannot willingly deal non-lethal damage. If faced with a helpless or unconscious enemy you must attempt a coup-de-grace.

Depressed [Robot, Programming]
A quirk in your emotional circuits leaves you constantly pessimistic. You take a -2 penalty to Will saves.

Glitched [Robot, Programming]
You are poorly programmed and prone to malfunction. After each rest you must roll 1d6 and take the action dictated by the result.

1-4. Retain/Revert to your normal alignment
5. You become Chaotic Neutral
6. You become Chaotic Evil

Servile [Robot, Programming]
You are made to serve. You must obey any non-violent command directed towards you. This does not include any command that would force you to harm another or yourself. You may make a will save based on your relationship to the commander as shown below to disobey the command.

Friendly : DC 25
Neutral : DC 20
Unfriendly : DC 15
Hostile: DC 10

Obsessive [Robot, Programming]
You are programmed to clean. Anytime you are faced with a spill or overturned furniture you must drop what you are doing to clean it. Each round you may make a will save DC 15 + (number of rounds since you saw the mess) to avoid cleaning.

cherez
2009-06-14, 03:31 AM
No, that isn't the problem... the "Adamintine Plating" and "Mirthrel Plating"i both include the word "plating" in the title, but not as a key-word in brackets afterwards. Thus it is rife for misinterpritation...

Thanks, I changed Plated to Melded for those feats. Clearer?




Needs more programs
...

Thanks! I added all the ones except Glitched. I'm a bit worried about the party dynamics, or how it would interact with a chaotic neutral/evil character. I also made Depressed -3 to follow the precedent of Meager Fortitude.

Limos
2009-06-14, 04:20 AM
The Glitched flaw is sort of a play on the AI is a Crapshoot trope. If you've ever noticed there is a tendency among Sci Fi works for any and all Artificial Intelligences to become Homicidal at the drop of a hat.

Lightning strikes the power lines. Home computer starts murdering people.
Virus hits the mainframe? Your blender is now a killing machine.
Computer is just too damn smart? It decides to wipe out the inferior humans.

How about this for a change.

Glitched [Robot, Programming]
Your base code is filled with syntax errors and malformed code, clearly your programmer was an idiot. Any time you are hit by a mind affecting spell or take psychic damage roll a D10 and take the result from the list below.

1-7: No change
8: You become dazed for one round
9: You become panicked for one round
10: You gain a +2 bonus to hit with a melee weapon and to damage and must attack the nearest target. If there is no target within reach you must move directly to the nearest target and attack. Each round you may make a will save DC 25 - (the number of rounds since the effect began) to end the effect.

This way there are no murky alignment issues, and instead anytime someone mucks about in your head he activates malformed methods and you either become irrationally afraid or you become a berserker.

DracoDei
2009-06-14, 06:46 AM
Would "Immune to morale and emotional effects (such as symbol of sadness)" be a trait, a flaw, or a feat? Should all robots have this? Note that this would NOT render them immune to Charm since deciding someone can be trusted or is worth helping CAN come out of pure logic.

cherez
2009-06-17, 07:27 PM
The Glitched flaw is sort of a play on the AI is a Crapshoot trope.

I got that, but on a PC or recurring character (which would be when this would actually show up) it would probably quickly descend into a Just Eat Gilligan, which I think would not be fun for the PCs.


Would "Immune to morale and emotional effects (such as symbol of sadness)" be a trait, a flaw, or a feat? Should all robots have this? Note that this would NOT render them immune to Charm since deciding someone can be trusted or is worth helping CAN come out of pure logic.

I would call it a trait. At least in my game morale effects tend to come up as bonuses more often than penalties, but not much more. I don't think this should be standard to robots since they do have emotions, and anyway there are very few morale effects that aren't mind effecting which they already are immune to.