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Belial_the_Leveler
2009-06-12, 05:15 AM
What would the DnD stats for the Man of Steel be? Let's go with the original comic stats and/or the animated series stats (e.g. the less ridiculous ones)


More powerful than a Locomotive:
Strength 65 plus powerful build. This means he can easily lift (max load) 200 tons and stagger under 400 tons.

Skin can only be pierced by artillery:
Assuming a handgun bullet is 2d6, a shotgun or military round is 4d6, anti-tank bullets are 6d6, grenades are 8d6 and artillery is 10d6 and higher, we're looking at Damage Resistance 30, ignored by Kryptonite or Magic.

Can barely survive a nuclear explosion:
Immune to fire and radiation (he actually feeds on radiation, right?). As for the physical blast, a ten-foot steel wall can survive an average nuke in the open (but not if the nuke is buried next to it). That's 3600 HP for the wall. Let's assume that a fortitude or reflex save allows half damage. With a Constitution comparable to its strength and d8 (humanoid or outsider) HD, maximum HP and improved toughness, we're looking at about 50 HD for 3600 HP. 50 HD for Superman sounds about right.

Faster than a Speeding Bullet:
Let's assume a handgun bullet so 300-400 m/s. That's 2 kilometers (6000 feet) per round. Assuming that his fly speed is twice his base speed and he has fast movement like a monk of his level, a base move would be 200 ft. A fly move would be 400 ft. A full run would be 1600 ft. That means he has to act 4 times per round to move more than 6000 feet/round.
Incidentally, a man 4000 times stronger could move 64 times faster but not think any faster than normal. Assuming the fastest man on earth could run 60 meters in 6 seconds, we've made Superman about half as slow in total speed but have given him extra actions.

Super Senses:
Superman takes a penalty to Spot/Listen per 100 feet instead of 10 feet, easily being able to see or hear all things within at least two miles with his skill checks.
In addition he can focus, searching for a specific sound or sight such as a known person's voice or gunshots. He can hear or see what he's looking for up to 1 mile per point of his spot/listen check but while he's doing so, he doesn't get improved senses for other sounds/sights.
Superman has infravision and X-ray vision (as the ring of the same name)

Saph
2009-06-12, 05:23 AM
Actually sounds about right. It says something about D&D that stats like that are within the scope of the game. :)

How would you do his heat vision and his senses? Blindsight?

- Saph

Adumbration
2009-06-12, 05:39 AM
Actually sounds about right. It says something about D&D that stats like that are within the scope of the game. :)

How would you do his heat vision and his senses? Blindsight?

- Saph

Well, he does have more than 50 HD: if he has anything resembling a decent intelligence score, he can have 53 ranks in Listen and Spot. Of course, he should also have Low-light vision and Darkvision.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-12, 05:44 AM
Levels in Warlock gets Darkvision, Blindsense, and laser beams.

Saph
2009-06-12, 05:47 AM
Nah, he's probably an Outsider. That's the closest D&D has got to "extraterrestrial". So I guess that would let him buy so many ranks in Listen and Spot that he could pull off the super-hearing and super-vision tricks.

Heat vision could be some kind of spell-like ability. Scorching Ray? Maybe too weak, though.

- Saph

paddyfool
2009-06-12, 05:47 AM
Generally a good description, but I've some minor quibbles:

> Immune to fire and radiation (he actually feeds on radiation, right?).

Um, not really. He feeds on sunlight. I'd favour high energy resistance, but not immunity, since he can be burned by really, really, hot things. Maybe something like Energy Resistance 50 for Fire, and Energy Resistance 25 for Cold, Acid, and Electricity. No Sonic resistance for him - super-hearing should make it hurt more, not less. Also maybe you could add "healed by sunlight" for specific spells such as sunburst etc.

As regards Kryptonite, that should have some really crippling effect on his physical stats (or mental stats for some versions). And don't forget about supervision and hearing for spot, listen and search checks out the wazoo. Maybe a +50 racial bonus to each, as well as darkvision 120', ignoring all concealment, and seeing through walls.

As regards saves, he should have good Fort, but poor Reflex and Will save progression (he's more in the habit of taking things on the chin than getting out of the way, and loses to mind-control with quite a high degree of frequency).

Baxbart
2009-06-12, 05:52 AM
As regards Kryptonite, that should have some really crippling effect on his physical stats (or mental stats for some versions).

Have it essentially turn him into a commoner for the duration.

Oh, and he should probably have slam attacks for his fists as natural weapons (that, or something akin to monk)

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-12, 05:53 AM
Nah, he's probably an Outsider. That's the closest D&D has got to "extraterrestrial". So I guess that would let him buy so many ranks in Listen and Spot that he could pull off the super-hearing and super-vision tricks.

Heat vision could be some kind of spell-like ability. Scorching Ray? Maybe too weak, though.

- Saph

But how do you account for Super Math (http://superdickery.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=36&Itemid=53&limitstart=1), or Super Weaving (http://superdickery.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=36&Itemid=53&limitstart=4), or Super Ventrilloquism (http://superdickery.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=36&Itemid=53&limitstart=8)?

kamikasei
2009-06-12, 05:56 AM
No Sonic resistance for him - super-hearing should make it hurt more, not less.

Sonic damage isn't "ow, my ears are ringing," it's "holy crap, those vibrations are shaking me apart". Supes certainly ought to be resistant to sonic the same way he's resistant to all physical trauma.

Saph
2009-06-12, 05:56 AM
But how do you account for Super Math (http://superdickery.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=36&Itemid=53&limitstart=1), or Super Weaving (http://superdickery.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=36&Itemid=53&limitstart=4), or Super Ventrilloquism (http://superdickery.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=36&Itemid=53&limitstart=8)?

Uhh . . . pass.

- Saph

BobVosh
2009-06-12, 06:05 AM
But how do you account for Super Math (http://superdickery.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=36&Itemid=53&limitstart=1), or Super Weaving (http://superdickery.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=36&Itemid=53&limitstart=4), or Super Ventrilloquism (http://superdickery.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=36&Itemid=53&limitstart=8)?

Once per 10 minutes he can add his HD to any skill.

Faleldir
2009-06-12, 06:05 AM
If we make him an Outsider, then he's vulnerable to starmetal, which is green.
Enlarged Empowered Twin Scorching Ray at will?

lord_khaine
2009-06-12, 06:40 AM
If we make him an Outsider, then he's vulnerable to starmetal, which is green.
Enlarged Empowered Twin Scorching Ray at will?

Im not sure the range is good enough.


But how do you account for Super Math, or Super Weaving, or Super Ventrilloquism?

By giving him a decent int bonus, 50 outside HD then means he have more skillpoints than what he knows what to do with.

Jayabalard
2009-06-12, 06:40 AM
Nah, he's probably an Outsider. That's the closest D&D has got to "extraterrestrial". Don't aliens often get lumped into aberrations?

Geddoe
2009-06-12, 06:46 AM
Why not just use one of the Dicefreaks' version? http://dicefreaks.forumz.cc/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=712&start=1 or http://dicefreaks.forumz.cc/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=712&start=123

Kris Strife
2009-06-12, 06:53 AM
Actually thought about this... Made more of a race/template.

Kryptonian: Humanoid (extraterrestrial/planar)
On home planet or any planet with a red sun, treat as human.

On a planet with a yellow sun, a Kryptonian gains the following abilities:
DR 50/Kryptonite and Magic
Fast movement: Base movement is 200 feet, ignores all terrain penalties.
Flight: 5x ground movement (he did fly around the world backwards fast enough to reverse the flow of time) with perfect manueverability.
Increased ability scores: All scores gain a plus 50 racial modifier unless within 40 feet of Kryptonite.
Heat vision: At will, a kryptonian can deal 10d6 points of fire based damage to any target with line of sight.
Super breath: At will, Gust of Wind, maximized caster level.
X-Ray vision: A kryptonian's eyes can see through most solid objects. No cover or concelment bonuses unless hidden behind 5 feet of steel or and inch of lead, all hide checks automatically fail.
Super hearing: A kryptonian gains a +50 Racial modifier to all hearing checks.

Anything else that needs to be added?

BobVosh
2009-06-12, 06:56 AM
A LA and super weaving

Kris Strife
2009-06-12, 06:59 AM
A LA and super weaving

Superweaving: A kryptonian can craft any type of cloth or rope based object, instinaineously (I mangled that one x.x), and at will, even if he lacks the proper materials as though he rolled a natural 20.

LA+10 only on a planet with a yellow sun. (it'd be higher, but how easy is it for a DM to rule that his campaign world has a red sun or a blue sun?)

#Raptor
2009-06-12, 07:20 AM
Actually sounds about right. It says something about D&D that stats like that are within the scope of the game. :)

How would you do his heat vision and his senses? Blindsight?

- Saph

Add "Earth Sight" from the RoS PRC Earth Dreamer (pg. 111).
It allows a character to see through earth and stone, but not through metal.

Dixieboy
2009-06-12, 08:05 AM
Which incarnation of superman are we talking here?

Because some of the supermans have pullde planets before, one of them have pulled a galaxy.

Most of them just carry entire buildings though, so the strength is not nearly big enough:

Artillery is not nearly enough to beat supes, remember how many times he has kicked dark seids ass?

Dark seid has been bombed to hell and back with not even a scratch, so has supes BTW.

So unless we are talking about the weakest version of supes in existence we aren't giving him enough power.

Yuki Akuma
2009-06-12, 08:13 AM
Which incarnation of superman are we talking here?

Because some of the supermans have pullde planets before, one of them have pulled a galaxy.

Most of them just carry entire buildings though, so the strength is not nearly big enough:

Artillery is not nearly enough to beat supes, remember how many times he has kicked dark seids ass?

Dark seid has been bombed to hell and back with not even a scratch, so has supes BTW.

So unless we are talking about the weakest version of supes in existence we aren't giving him enough power.

The OP based it on Action Comics #1. Where Superman was just a guy who could run fast, jump high, tie guns in knots and could only be taken out with artillery.

He got more powerful over time.

(Fun fact: Action Comics #1 Supes didn't get power from the sun. Kryptonians were 'more evolved' than humans, and Krypton had higher gravity. That was the only explanation for his powers for quite some time.)

Roderick_BR
2009-06-12, 08:54 AM
But how do you account for Super Math (http://superdickery.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=36&Itemid=53&limitstart=1), or Super Weaving (http://superdickery.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=36&Itemid=53&limitstart=4), or Super Ventrilloquism (http://superdickery.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=36&Itemid=53&limitstart=8)?

Very high stats (int, dex, cha) that throws his skill checks into epic results.

Haven
2009-06-12, 09:01 AM
Actually thought about this... Made more of a race/template.

Kryptonian: Humanoid (extraterrestrial/planar)
On home planet or any planet with a red sun, treat as human.


On a planet with a yellow sun, a Kryptonian gains the following abilities:
DR 50/Kryptonite and Magic
Fast movement: Base movement is 200 feet, ignores all terrain penalties.
Flight: 5x ground movement (he did fly around the world backwards fast enough to reverse the flow of time) with perfect manueverability.
Increased ability scores: All scores gain a plus 50 racial modifier unless within 40 feet of Kryptonite.
Heat vision: At will, a kryptonian can deal 10d6 points of fire based damage to any target with line of sight.
Super breath: At will, Gust of Wind, maximized caster level.
X-Ray vision: A kryptonian's eyes can see through most solid objects. No cover or concelment bonuses unless hidden behind 5 feet of steel or and inch of lead, all hide checks automatically fail.
Super hearing: A kryptonian gains a +50 Racial modifier to all hearing checks.

Anything else that needs to be added?

Very nice, the only iconic Superman power that this is missing is his ability to see from far distances. Make that last one +50 to Listen and Spot and I think you're set.

paddyfool
2009-06-12, 09:06 AM
> DR 50/Kryptonite and Magic
Should be "Or", not "And". Either of these can bypass his DR.

> Fast movement: Base movement is 200 feet, ignores all terrain penalties.

Fine.

> Flight: 5x ground movement (he did fly around the world backwards fast enough to reverse the flow of time) with perfect manueverability.

Fine

> Increased ability scores: All scores gain a plus 50 racial modifier unless within 40 feet of Kryptonite.

I'd say his physical stats get more of a boost than his mental ones, although both are obviously improved. Say +50 to physical stats, +10 to mental.

> Heat vision: At will, a kryptonian can deal 10d6 points of fire based damage to any target with line of sight.

Not quite powerful enough. Maybe 10d6 +1d6 per level (max 50d6)

> Super breath: At will, Gust of Wind, maximized caster level.

Fine, although he should also have the option of adding cold damage to that somehow.

> X-Ray vision: A kryptonian's eyes can see through most solid objects. No cover or concelment bonuses unless hidden behind 5 feet of steel or and inch of lead, all hide checks automatically fail.

Fine, but I think this, his ability to see microscopic things etc. should also add a bonus to Search checks. Likewise, he should get a bonus to Spot checks for being able to see things from a long way off.

> Super hearing: A kryptonian gains a +50 Racial modifier to all hearing checks.

Fine.

Belial_the_Leveler
2009-06-12, 12:02 PM
Which incarnation of superman are we talking here?
The original comics incarnation, the Superman: Animated Series incarnation and/or the Justice League Animated incarnation. These are those who, while quite "super", the feats Superman pulled are not ridiculously god-like.


Artillery is not nearly enough to beat supes, remember how many times he has kicked dark seids ass? Dark seid has been bombed to hell and back with not even a scratch, so has supes BTW.
Not quite. Direct hits with bombs, heavy artillery and similar-power attacks have been shown to at least make him notice. Say that a bomb does 80 damage, 10 after a reflex/fortitude save and resistance 30 applying. Superman has nearly 2000 HP. 10 damage means he's noticed the blow but has not taken more than a minor bruise; it would require over 200 such bombs to kill him.


Heat vision:
Superman has several actions per round. A ranged attack that does 10d6 fire would be fine; full attacking would mean 4x 10d6 damage. Full attacking for the entire round would mean 16x 10d6 damage.

AstralFire
2009-06-12, 12:19 PM
TAS/JLU Supes is quite a step ahead of Action Comics 1 Supes, though the latter is no wimp.

Lapak
2009-06-12, 12:26 PM
Once per 10 minutes he can add his HD to any skill.This is actually one of the best ideas in the thread. It also explains what happens when he actually concentrates on his Super Vision or Super Hearing after hearing vague sounds of distress; it bumps his already ridiculous check up into the triple digits.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-12, 02:13 PM
(Fun fact: Action Comics #1 Supes didn't get power from the sun. Kryptonians were 'more evolved' than humans, and Krypton had higher gravity. That was the only explanation for his powers for quite some time.)A world with massive gravity, pressure(due to the high gravity), and large amounts of radiation(red sun) actually explains a lot of his powers. Not the Flight or heat vision, but the X-Ray vision, near-invulnerability, and speed/str are more reasonable. At least compared to the current justification.

Human Paragon 3
2009-06-12, 02:42 PM
How does Superman's "extra actions" actually work? 4 full round actions per round? Or 4 Standard Actions per round (2 full round)? Does he also get 4 swift/immediate actions?

Mando Knight
2009-06-12, 03:16 PM
JLU Supes holds back. Way back. 'Cause he feels like he lives in a world of (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WorldOfCardboardSpeech)cardboard (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpoV5pj1Agw).

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-06-12, 03:17 PM
AAARGH! Not TV Tropes again!

Logalmier
2009-06-12, 03:20 PM
For the eye lasers you could have split Polar Rays that do fire damage instead of cold, and make them spell-like abilities usable at will.

GoC
2009-06-12, 09:00 PM
Assuming a handgun bullet is 2d6, a shotgun or military round is 4d6, anti-tank bullets are 6d6, grenades are 8d6 and artillery is 10d6 and higher, we're looking at Damage Resistance 30, ignored by Kryptonite or Magic.
I believe we did the calculations a while back and determined that a tank could oneshot a lesser deity. Ignore this. Superhero comics and D&D have the same level of realism.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-06-12, 11:17 PM
I believe we did the calculations a while back and determined that a tank could oneshot a lesser deity. Ignore this. Superhero comics and D&D have the same level of realism.And I thought there was debate over whether a tank shell could kill a Balor. :smallconfused:

Belial_the_Leveler
2009-06-13, 04:54 AM
A tank cannon shell can penetrate 3 inches of composite or heavy metal armor. Treating that as Adamantium, that's 120 HP and hardness 20.
Since the shells are specifically made to penetrate and damage armor, we'd give them ignore hardness and 2x damage vs objects.
So we're looking at most at 15d6 initial damage plus 10d6 secondary explosion damage, doubled vs objects to be able to destroy another tank.

So a Balor, immune to the fire damage of the explosion, would take ~38 points of damage per hit. That's six hits to kill it. That is, assuming that a a tank gun with its low attack bonus would be able to penetrate an AC of 35.
Superman would take 23 points of damage from a direct hit and would need a hundred hits or more to be killed.

The Vorpal Tribble
2009-06-13, 05:03 AM
I made a Kryptonian race a couple years ago on a dare. Here is what I came up with:

Kryptonian

Kryptonian characters possess the following racial traits.
* +110 Strength, +88 Dexterity, +100 Constitution, +4 Intelligence, +8 Wisdom, +2 Charisma
* Medium: As Medium creatures, Kryptonians have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
* Kryptonian base land speed is 4,400 feet. Kryptonian fly speed is 33,880 ft. (perfect)
* Blindsight 1,000 ft.
* Naturally Psionic: Kryptonians gain 1 bonus power point.
* Breathless: A Kryptonian does not need to breathe and is thus immune to drowning, asphyxiation, airless environs and similar conditions.
* Fast Healing: While in direct sunlight of a yellow sun a kryptonian gains fast healing 40.
* Damage reduction 100/magic and kryptonite.
* Resistance to Energy: Energy attacks deal only subdual damage to a kryptonian.
* Vulnerability to Kryptonite: If within 20 feet of kryptonite, a kryptonian's physical scores all decrease to 1 and they lose all special abilities, attacks, and qualities. They are rendered Helpless and their racial HD decrease to 1d8. These penalties last for as long as the kryptonian is within 20 feet of this kryptonite and for 2d4 rounds thereafter.
* Natural Attack: A kryptonian can make two melee attacks to deal 50d6 points of damage plus Strength modifier. A kryptonian's natural attacks are considered adamantine for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction and ignore any hardness of 50 or less.
* Energy Line (Ex): As a standard action a kryptonian can release a line of focused light from their eyes as a ranged touch attack. This attack deals 1d8 points of damage per HD of the Kryptonian.
* Icy Breath (Ex): A kryptonian has a breath weapon, a 100-foot cone of cold that deals 40d6 points of cold damage. A successful Reflex save (DC 10 + half HD + Constitution modifier) halves.
* Tempest Breath (Ex): As a full round action a Kryptonian can release a great cone of hurricane-force winds 1,000-feet long.
* Telekinetic Force (Su): A kryptonian can use telekinetic force as a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Manifester level equal to half HD. The save DC is Charisma-based.
* Atmospheric Containment: A Kryptonian is capable of retaining any enviroment they have been exposed to for a number of rounds equal to their constitution modifier.
* Racial Hit Dice: A Kryptonian begins with ninety levels of humanoid, which provide 90d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +67, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +30, Ref +47, and Will +30.
* Racial Skills: Despite their high HD a Kryptonian without class levels only has racial skill points equal to 2 + Intelligence modifier x 4.
* Racial Feats: A Kryptonian gains two feats.
* Favored Class: Any
* Level Adjustment: ?

readsaboutd&d
2009-06-13, 09:49 AM
For the laser-vision thingy, it can pierce through metal in a few seconds. And also this isnt based on action comics 1 or superman couldnt use flight/x-ray vision/super breath/...

Jack_Simth
2009-06-13, 10:00 AM
For the laser-vision thingy, it can pierce through metal in a few seconds.
Damage is based on hit dice. They get a LOT of hit dice. 90d8 damage will go through a LOT.

The Vorpal Tribble
2009-06-13, 08:39 PM
JLU Supes holds back. Way back. 'Cause he feels like he lives in a world of (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WorldOfCardboardSpeech)cardboard (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpoV5pj1Agw).
That ticked me off so bad...

'I live in a world of cardboard, always having to make sure I don't kill anyone... but you can take it' so he sends him careening through dozens of buildings and crushes cars all around with the force of falling meteors. Yeah, I bet Superman went and checked out every single one of those buildings and Hondas to make sure he didn't just take out the entire office staff.

I think this is why I always loved superheroes yet simultaneously could never stand comic books...

AstralFire
2009-06-13, 08:40 PM
I'm pretty sure the area was evac'd.

The Vorpal Tribble
2009-06-13, 08:42 PM
I'm pretty sure the area was evac'd.
So that's why everyone is standing around the buildings looking up in shock?

Kris Strife
2009-06-13, 08:46 PM
So that's why everyone is standing around the buildings looking up in shock?

Because anytime some one says 'Get out of here!' there's at few people that a) didn't hear what was said, b) decides to stay anyways, or c) shows up later, wanting to get a closer look at whats happening

Haven
2009-06-13, 09:21 PM
That ticked me off so bad...

'I live in a world of cardboard, always having to make sure I don't kill anyone... but you can take it' so he sends him careening through dozens of buildings and crushes cars all around with the force of falling meteors. Yeah, I bet Superman went and checked out every single one of those buildings and Hondas to make sure he didn't just take out the entire office staff.

I think this is why I always loved superheroes yet simultaneously could never stand comic books...

X-Ray and telescopic vision and the ability to, as a side effect of super-speed, process everything he takes in means that, well, I'd take that bet.

Vorpal Tribble: Very nice, but: telekinesis?

mostlyharmful
2009-06-14, 04:50 AM
Because anytime some one says 'Get out of here!' there's at few people that a) didn't hear what was said, b) decides to stay anyways, or c) shows up later, wanting to get a closer look at whats happening

So they deserve what they get? Supes was saying he could cut loose because this guy could take it and then didn't consider the physics involved while he smashed up half a city with people still in it.:smallconfused: seems pretty dumb to me, especially since he could have manuveored around Darkseid with his speed and punched him into the sea or whatever, would be really helpful since he can fly and Darkseid can't to be fighting in water.

Kris Strife
2009-06-14, 04:59 AM
So they deserve what they get? Supes was saying he could cut loose because this guy could take it and then didn't consider the physics involved while he smashed up half a city with people still in it.:smallconfused: seems pretty dumb to me, especially since he could have manuveored around Darkseid with his speed and punched him into the sea or whatever, would be really helpful since he can fly and Darkseid can't to be fighting in water.

They weren't in the buildings, unless I'm misremembering, they were just standing in the street, and not that close, or I'm sure Darkseid would have fired his omega beams at them to force Supes into acting as a sheild.

Belial_the_Leveler
2009-06-14, 05:00 AM
At least 3/4 of what Superman does is dumb. He may have significant intelligence (he's a reporter, after all) but he's often outwitted by bad guys, is naive, often barges in with fists flying without considering the situation carefully and fails to take precautions-for himself or others-or use good tactics.

In short, he has (or is shown to have) an abysmal Wisdom score. Which actually makes sense if you think about it; if you're so physically powerful so as not to need to plan in order to survive, would you ever learn to plan?

mostlyharmful
2009-06-14, 06:49 AM
They weren't in the buildings, unless I'm misremembering, they were just standing in the street, and not that close, or I'm sure Darkseid would have fired his omega beams at them to force Supes into acting as a sheild.

There weren't any people SHOWN in the buildings but given there are people on the street its a pretty certain deal that the city wasn't evacuated. Oh, and those poor schmucks on the street, the buildings are getting torn to schreds and the debris are all flying around smashing into stuff..... yeah, there's a body count... thousands at least.

Kris Strife
2009-06-14, 07:29 AM
Well, considering no one (except Supes and Doomsday) got killed when they punched each other hard enough to form a shockwave that shattered every window for a two block radius in the middle of Metropolis, I don't see why anyone would get killed by the debris from fighting Darkseid.

The Vorpal Tribble
2009-06-14, 04:57 PM
Vorpal Tribble: Very nice, but: telekinesis?
See Superman IV.

My knowledge of ole supes is the classic black and white series and the 70-80's movies.