I hope I'm not the only one...

[Bliu Skye]

Just want to know.
When I started reading OOTS, I knew absolutely nothing about Dungeons and Dragons. If someone had said 'D20' to me a few months ago, I would have thought they were talking about some strange chessboard move or something. Now, I'm actually considering learning how to play. It seems interesting.
What I'm asking is, are there any other people that found this comic and throughout the course of reading it, learned more or less how to play D20 games? I mean, Rich is sitting there making all these references that make absolutely no sense from a non-gamer. (i.e., for example at the beginning I was like 'What the heck is a Listen check?) But as the context got stronger, I could figure out what they were talking about.
And was I the only one that learned a new word from Vaarsuvius? (seriously, I did spelling bees for five years in school and I'd never heard of the word 'progeny.')

[Felixaar]

Same here. I'm still holding out for a "everything I know about DnD I learned from OOTS" shirt.

[Hatchet]

You should definitely learn how to play, it's really fun if you can get a good party together.

How did you end up reading Oots if you knew nothing about DnD? What made you stay? The story is pretty cool, but I don't know if I would have kept coming back had I not known the game.

[deuxhero]

I found a quick read of the SRD enough to get most of the jokes.

[OOTS_Supporter]

Never considered playing it and probably won't, but I was able to pick up on most of the jokes anyway.

But I still don't know what a d20 is. Or 1d5 or whatever.

[Forias]

Ditto.

Started reading it with no knowledge of DnD at all.

A friend linked to it, and I liked the story. I guess it helped that the first few strips I read were around 200 when most of the emphasis is on character and plot lines. Might not have got hooked if I started at the beginning.

Since I started reading, I've played Baldur's Gate which has made many more of the jokes funny!

[Zolem]

If your going to be a new player in 3.5, go with either a Fighter (streigt forward) ir Cleric (every party needs one).

If you go fighter, here are some tips.

Pick Human for the extra feat, you're all about combat feats.
Don't take Power Attack untill you are at least level 5, otehrwise you won't gain full benefit. This is a common rookie mistake.
Carry at least three weapons, a melee (primary), a ranged, and a backup melee (that deals a different damage type at lower levels, same weapon at hgiher levels).
Chose either sword and sheild or great weapon as your mainstay, and pick backups along the same thread.
When you can, get weapon specialization ect. for your chosen main weapon, this is priority over all other feats, no exceptions.
Get a +1 Silver weapon asap. as it is very useful against undead, lycans, and devils. Cold Iron is only for Fey and demons so make that second priority.
At around level 10, get an adamantium weapon for constructs and smashing through stuff. I recomend a great weapon to get the most damage, even if that's not what your mainstay is.
Remember, you have a lot of feats, so you can afford to spend one or two on feats to be a compitent archer.


And now cleric:

ALWAYS pick a good aligned deity, preferably Pelor for new clerics.
As long as you serve a good Deity, you do not have to prepare healing spells. Instead, you may exchange any spell you have already prepaired for a healing spell of euqal or lower level.
A morningstar is your best weapon without spending feats.
You need one hand free to access your holy symbol. A buckler is therfore your sheild of choice.
Divine Might temporarily makes you a fighter with added buffs, take advantage of that if you sudenly find a number of enemies in your face or the forntline needs reinforcements more than healing.
Your priorities are first healing, second buffing, and third damage dealing.
It may not be glamerous, but parties need you to recover more than their level in HP per day of rest. You're basicly a very important party member.
And don't forget, you can wear heavier armors.

[Lukraak]

My advice to any new player would be.
Have fun :)
Don't worry too much about what would be 'optimal' or 'best', enjoy playing a game with friends.
After all, it`s more fun overcoming an obstacle trough out of the box thinking then just rolling dice and seeing if it succeeds.
I'd advice to either find a group people that would be interested and a DM that has some experience, or join a group of people you'd feel comfortable around and who won't be impatient with a new player.
Joining say, a poker group, won't be much fun either if you're the only new person and the rest expect you to know all the rules and tricks without bothering to explain them to you.

And as a geek.. d20 means 20 sided dice, xdy stands for rolling x number of y sided dice

[elliott20]

yeah, worry about "optimal" as a new player will just kill the fun of the game for you. The optimal characters to play are never newbie friendly and almost never that intuitive.

[Zolem]

YEah, but I feel better if they at least know some basics, it prevents them from being noob shields. Yes, my party practicesnoob shields. For those of you who don't know what that is, ehre is an example:

I think a hallway is traped, and wisper so to the rouge. He's been having horible luck all day, and doesn't want to risk triggering the trap. He checks the hall for traps and rolls a 20. I glance at his DM note and balk a bit at the trap numbers. He smiles and says "There's only a dart trap down the way. Fighter #2, I've been having back luck all day, so I figure I'll probably trip the trap and it might be poisoned. You have high AC and a good fort save, could you take a hit for teh team?"

Now then, this in and of itself is not a bad strategy, and if that were actualy the case it would be a good plan. As it was, the dope walked down the hallway and got hit with a swing hammer that did 3d6 damage and knocked him three squares forward so he landed on the flame-trap tile (10d6) he then tried to retreat and trigered the flaming arrow trap (5 1d6+4 damage attacks). He had literaly 1 HP when he got backto thw cleric. Rouge then said "Perfect, the only trap he missed was the pit on the other side of the flame-trap."

So listen up new players, a lot of people lok at you as meat sheilds. Keep that in mind and be cautious untill you've played with the group for a bit. Then they stop thinking of you as the new guy and instead as a fellow player.

[Tempeststurm]

I also knew absolutely nothing about D&D until I started reading, then I found this site: http://www.d20srd.org

It lists almost all of the rules that the comic uses, and I still refer to it whenever something new turns up, like a new spell I don't know.

[Ted The Bug]

Not only have I never played D&D, I've never played any tabletop game more complex than Triopoly. The great thing about OotS is that you don't need to be a gamer to appreciate a lot of the humour.

[Zeitgeist]

Just want to know.
When I started reading OOTS, I knew absolutely nothing about Dungeons and Dragons. If someone had said 'D20' to me a few months ago, I would have thought they were talking about some strange chessboard move or something.

Well, I wasn't quite that bad. I always knew what it was.

Being an avid player of console RPGs (Final Fantasy, for example), I had a pretty good grasp of how RPG mechanics work. My friend, who played D&D, would sometimes tell me what was going on in his campaign. I also picked up Neverwinter Nights, which is based on D&D rules.

But this comic, and more specifically, this forum, has taught me a lot about it. Since sometimes Rich breaks the rules, I could check up here if I thought something was suspicious to see whether or not that was a joke or a rule.

Between all of that, I've gained enough Knowledge (D&D) to play an online campaign with a few friends. I created my character after the "Thog" model :P

[CapedLuigiYoshi]

I started reading without any D&D knowledge, and at this point I've read almost the entire SRD. Go figure.

[elliott20]

well, to be fair, the advise you're giving is not really that optimized either. If we went to any char-op board, optimizing fighter is almost always some variant of the ubercharger variety.

in a game where system mastery actually makes a difference in your performance, this sort of thing is actually highly dependent upon the other people you play with. If other people are at the same level of system mastery, then it's no big deal. It's when you have one guy (especially if it's the GM) who is really optimizing through the roof then you get a problem.

If you can keep it at OOTS level optimization though, you're doing alright for most starter games.

[Lappy9000]

Just want to know.
When I started reading OOTS, I knew absolutely nothing about Dungeons and Dragons. If someone had said 'D20' to me a few months ago, I would have thought they were talking about some strange chessboard move or something. Now, I'm actually considering learning how to play. It seems interesting.
What I'm asking is, are there any other people that found this comic and throughout the course of reading it, learned more or less how to play D20 games? I mean, Rich is sitting there making all these references that make absolutely no sense from a non-gamer. (i.e., for example at the beginning I was like 'What the heck is a Listen check?) But as the context got stronger, I could figure out what they were talking about.
And was I the only one that learned a new word from Vaarsuvius? (seriously, I did spelling bees for five years in school and I'd never heard of the word 'progeny.')This is pretty much me as well. Started reading the comic at the advice of a friend, even though I didn't get all the jokes. I hardly noticed, since the comic is more than funny enough as is.

We played our first game with entirely free resources (and dice cribbed from various game boards), although I won't discuss the game itself because, honestly, we had no idea what the heck we were doing.

Now, I'm a full-time Dungeon Master of one game and a regular player in another game, have a pretty good homebrewing portfolio going, and am even writing my own campaign setting.

Thanks Order of the Stick *thumbs up*

[averagejoe]

(seriously, I did spelling bees for five years in school and I'd never heard of the word 'progeny.')

Really? It's a word I don't think is that obscure.

Wait, did I learn that word from playing Bauldur's Gate? I might have, Alundo's prophecies and all that. I guess there's just something about DnD that attracts the word "progeny."


well, to be fair, the advise you're giving is not really that optimized either. If we went to any char-op board, optimizing fighter is almost always some variant of the ubercharger variety.

The thing is that some of it is not only non-optimal, a lot of it is outright bad. I mean, the cleric advice is alright (then again, clerics are hard to screw up. All you have to do is buff/heal and you're everyone's favorite guy.) but the fighter advice is terrible. Not taking power attack until level five? Weapon specialization prioritized "above all else?" Even if you just want a decent character this is horrible advice, and is somewhat misleading about what is important to a fighter. I mean, power attack is among a fighty guy's most important feat, and to prioritize a +1 attack bonus to one weapon over that... (Also, "Not gaining the full benefit of power attack until level five?" I wonder if this isn't a 3.0 player, back when you could only power attack for five.)

[Dork Lord]

Power Attack + Two Handed Power Strike is a Fighter's best friend. 2x Strength damage on a 2 handed weapon makes for one bad dude. Add a few other juicy feats like those jump ones (which I can't for the life of me remember the names of right now) and you have a specialized Fighter who's really good at what Fighters are supposed to do, and that's deal melee damage. I can't recommend the Ultimate Feats book enough.

[Zolem]

Look, we're from two different schools of thought. Mine s 'versatile meat grinder', you hit often and are hard to hit, and what you hit gets hurt. Power attack if you read the feat description is limited to up to a +5 advantage, so take it at 5th level or so and you get the full +5 damage right away inastead of a +1 bonus at level 1 when there are beter feats available that are more useful. Improved Initiative so you can get in the enemies faces quicker, Quick Draw so you can change weapons on the fly, Dodge to get that AC bonus that sticks with you for the career, Endurance so you can keep going, Toughness for the extra HP., ect.

I tend to find damage pounders are too easily flustered in encounters where they can't get in the enemies faces. So esentialy this is two different schools of thought on how to build a fighter, optimized melee or swiss-army knife.

[Callista]

yeah, worry about "optimal" as a new player will just kill the fun of the game for you. The optimal characters to play are never newbie friendly and almost never that intuitive.Yes, but you have to pick a character that will survive what the game throws at him. Dying repeatedly is no fun unless you're playing Paranoia.

That's why people are giving advice on good first characters. They're tough characters that can probably survive and aren't too hugely difficult to play, mechanically.

I started with a sorcerer, incidentally. I did OK, and a set spell list is better than the wizard's more flexible (but harder to master) spell list; but sorcerers are fragile and you really can't take risks with them. I survived because my DM at the time would bend over backwards not to kill a PC, not because I was any good at the strategy of keeping a 5-HP character alive around things like 2d6 damage weaponry in the hands of 16-STR orcs!

[Kish]

YEah, but I feel better if they at least know some basics, it prevents them from being noob shields. Yes, my party practicesnoob shields.
Then my advice would be: Don't play with Zolem's party the first time.

Or second time. Or, well, ever.

To be slightly less flip: If the first gaming group you find encourages you to treat roleplaying and characterization as nice extras to the point of building a character powerful enough to stay alive in the constant combat encounters and traps the dungeonmaster will throw at you and the rest of your group will respond to in completely out-of-character tactical ways, my advice is to walk away from them and never look back.

[thepsyker]

When, I first started reading OotS my only real experience with D&D was by way of games such as Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale, so I had some of the basics, but still picked up some new stuff. Never did end up getting involved in the actual game though as my friends in highschool were more into Warhammer (I know who would have guessed that I like warhammer:smallwink:) and since then I haven't really been able to find a new gaming group as the open gaming group at my local FNGS meets while I'm at work.

[Bliu Skye]

You should definitely learn how to play, it's really fun if you can get a good party together.

How did you end up reading Oots if you knew nothing about DnD? What made you stay? The story is pretty cool, but I don't know if I would have kept coming back had I not known the game.

This is how I found it:
I was browsing the wiki of Guild Wars (an mmo that I've played for almost two years) and I found an article on an Effect called Spiritual Possession. Under the effects of SP your character starts spouting random phrases either said by characters in the game or references to other things. One of these phrases was something like "All hail Banjo, God of Clowns." I saw that and was like 'What the crap? There's got to be something funny behind this.' At the bottom, it said that it was a reference to Rich Burlew's comic strip Order of the Stick. I saw that link on the comic name and I was like, what a stupid name. I didn't click. Then one day I went back to the page and I saw it again. This time, I had a few extra hours so I clicked it.
My initial reaction was 'My god, the art style is so simple I could draw it."
My second reaction was 'What do you mean, 3.5 edition?'
My third came after reading a few strips. 'I wonder how many are in the archive? *clicks* Whoa. I'm going to need some coffee."

[Bliu Skye]

Really? It's a word I don't think is that obscure.

It's not obscure really. In fact, a few weeks after I read that strip, I was the keyboardist for my school's rendition of Children of Eden: "And all your tainted progeny...even to the seventh generation,"

[Zolem]

Then my advice would be: Don't play with Zolem's party the first time.

Or second time. Or, well, ever.

To be slightly less flip: If the first gaming group you find encourages you to treat roleplaying and characterization as nice extras to the point of building a character powerful enough to stay alive in the constant combat encounters and traps the dungeonmaster will throw at you and the rest of your group will respond to in completely out-of-character tactical ways, my advice is to walk away from them and never look back.

How do you think I feel? I'm the only charecterizing roleplayer in a group of HAck-Munchkin stealth-CEs that would make Belkar proud. One of our worst/best moments came when our wizard decided to burn down the town because he didn't like the way a villaiger said "Have a nice day." to him. We were stuck helping. I had by this point given up on playing Good or Neutral aligned charecters and went streigt LE, then NE, just so I could justify my charecter even being with these loonies.

I have found sollace though on Myht Weavers (http://www.myth-weavers.com), an online Play by Post board where I've finally found roleplayers with deep charecters and in-charecter driven actions. I can finally get over the drawbacks of not having any other groups to join (small area, we get our D&D books at Borders).

[Kish]

Wow, that really sucks. :smallfrown: And I thought some of the group I'd played with were bad.

[Mr. Shiny Objec]

I had already read the core books when I found OotS, but only played D&D one time for a half-hour. Now I'm happy because that knowledge came in handy (sort of).

[T-O-E]

I have never played DnD and probably never will. Sadly. :smallsigh:

[mockingbyrd7]

I had played Dungeons and Dragons, but only the older editions. I was only vaguely familiar with 3.5 Edition DND before I discovered OotS a few years back, but I've since become very familiar with most of the rules.

[Zeitgeist]

I have never played DnD and probably never will. Sadly. :smallsigh:

Sadly? Then play!

[Foryn Gilnith]

If someone had said 'D20' to me a few months ago, I would have thought they were talking about some strange chessboard move or something.

LoL. That actually sounds plausible, if you don't know chess (I don't). The misunderstandings that might arise would be amusing.



And was I the only one that learned a new word from Vaarsuvius? (seriously, I did spelling bees for five years in school and I'd never heard of the word 'progeny.')

This is why reading literature gives you more vocabulary than dry academic exercises (spelling bee). Heck, I stopped reading literature at the beginning of high school and I still know enough that Vaarsuvius has taught me nothing.

[EmeraldPhoenix]

Same here.

I'm considering asking for a D&D set/board/whateveritscalled for my b-day next month.

[Azura]

I've never played D&D, but that's probably because I don't know anyone who'd be remotely interested in trying it. :smalltongue:

I still find the comic entertaining, and most of the rules and references are sufficiently self-explanatory.

[thepsyker]

How do you think I feel? I'm the only charecterizing roleplayer in a group of HAck-Munchkin stealth-CEs that would make Belkar proud. One of our worst/best moments came when our wizard decided to burn down the town because he didn't like the way a villaiger said "Have a nice day." to him. We were stuck helping. I had by this point given up on playing Good or Neutral aligned charecters and went streigt LE, then NE, just so I could justify my charecter even being with these loonies.Heh, its probably not the reaction you wanted, but I find that unintentionally hilarious as it reminds me of the first time me and my friends ever tried our hands at a tale top roleplaying game, previously had just been into wargaming. It was WHRP 2ed and I was DM and non of us had any idea what we were doing. By the end of the first session they had chased off all the patrons, looted and burned down the inn they started in. :smallbiggrin: Ah, good times.

[Kalbron]

To be honest if you don't have a gaming group, yet want to learn more about the rules (and aren't a graphics-whore) you could always pick up Neverwinter Nights 1 and/or 2 for the PC.

They aren't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but they're a helpful learning tool I found.

[Dagren]

Same here.

I'm considering asking for a D&D set/board/whateveritscalled for my b-day next month.Out of curiosity, which edition are you aiming for?

[JonestheSpy]

How do you think I feel? I'm the only charecterizing roleplayer in a group of HAck-Munchkin stealth-CEs that would make Belkar proud. One of our worst/best moments came when our wizard decided to burn down the town because he didn't like the way a villaiger said "Have a nice day." to him. We were stuck helping.

The folks in your group wouldn't happen to be named Dave, Brian, and Bob, would they?

[EmeraldPhoenix]

Out of curiosity, which edition are you aiming for?

I don't know. Whichever one I can most easily acquire/is cheapest, probably. I don't know much about the different editions. Which one do you recommend for first-timers?

[Trebuchet]

And was I the only one that learned a new word from Vaarsuvius? (seriously, I did spelling bees for five years in school and I'd never heard of the word 'progeny.')

I didn't know the word "trope." "Progeny," I knew. "Trope" was indeed first used by Vaarsuvius, I believe, during an insult to Nale to reveal which was actually the bad guy.

[Dagren]

I don't know. Whichever one I can most easily acquire/is cheapest, probably. I don't know much about the different editions. Which one do you recommend for first-timers?D&D classic from the 80s. Seriously, it's more a matter of taste. Some people will tell you that 4th is simpler, and others will tell you that it isn't, just more simplistic. I wouldn't choose based on that, though.I've heard that 3rd is more high fantasy and 4th is more heroic fantasy, but not really knowing the difference between these two genre, I don't care to comment.

EDIT: as to ease of acquiring, it's basically 3rd or 4th, with 4th being more common in bookshops. If you want 3rd though, you can find most of the books on amazon pretty cheaply.

[thepsyker]

D&D classic from the 70s. Seriously, it's more a matter of taste. Some people will tell you that 4th is simpler, and others will tell you that it isn't, just more simplistic. I wouldn't choose based on that, though.I've heard that 3rd is more high fantasy and 4th is more heroic fantasy, but not really knowing the difference between these two genre, I don't care to comment.

EDIT: as to ease of acquiring, it's basically 3rd or 4th, with 4th being more common in bookshops. If you want 3rd though, you can find most of the books on amazon pretty cheaply.With the 3rd edition core books, DM Guide, Players Handbook, and Monster Manual, you might also want to keep an eye out that they are all either 3rd ed or 3.5, not really sure if the differences are enough to cause any problem, but there might be issues with page references and such.

[Dagren]

With the 3rd edition core books, DM Guide, Players Handbook, and Monster Manual, you might also want to keep an eye out that they are all either 3rd ed or 3.5, not really sure if the differences are enough to cause any problem, but there might be issues with page references and such.I haven't seen any for ages, but I suppose there will still be some 3.0 books floating around, yes. So yeah, watch out for them. The versions are almost completely compatible (as you might expect from an incremental upgrade), but are nonetheless different. By the way, I wasn't kidding when I said classic was simpler if you can get hold of a copy. I much prefer 3.5, though.

[horus42]

Before finding this comic, the only tabletop RPGs I had ever played were Scion and a handful of World of Darkness games. (Both Old and New) I still haven't played D&D, but I think my gaming group would be up for it. Although, we're kind of all in different places at the moment, so we can't exactly play. That, and we don't have any of the books.

[Devils_Advocate]

You are not alone, Bliu Skye. I first started learning about D&D in order to understand just what all these webcomics are talking about. (A lot of webcomicsat at least reference Dungeons & Dragons, and plenty are deep immersion gaming (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeepImmersionGaming) that focuses at least as much on the in-game characters as it does on their players.)

[Almaseti]

I'm also going to start playing because of OotS. I found the omic through tv tropes. Some of the examples were so interesting that I decided I had to find out what it was all about.